Zone1 The "Lake of Fire" (Hell) is temporary, punitive, purifying, & restorative

[K9Buck]

You verses do not demonstrate that ALL of mankind will be saved.

What does 1 Timothy 4:10 mean to you?

For to this end we toil and strive,[a] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe

 

[ding]

What does 1 Timothy 4:10 mean to you?

For to this end we toil and strive,[a] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe

There's a difference between redemption, salvation and justification/sanctification.

 

[K9Buck]

There's a difference between redemption, salvation and justification/sanctification.

My brother, I think the verse is pretty clear. Jesus is the savior of ALL people.

 

[ding]

My brother, I think the verse is pretty clear. Jesus is the savior of ALL people.

And plenty to support what I said. Redemption, salvation sanctification.

 

[K9Buck]

As Christians we can only share God's good news. Sadly, many reject the scriptures.

 

[ding]

As Christians we can only share God's good news. Sadly, many reject the scriptures.

I'm pretty sure they are rejecting God.

 

[Ace Nova]

There is evidence for spiritual "refinement by fire" in ancient texts.

 

[SweetSue92]

Every single Bible translation renders anionion in the Matthew verse as "eternal". If the word is up for some kind of interpretation, that just does not happen.

I found this:

Sometimes the word αιων does indeed mean “age” in the sense of a limited duration of time which comes to an end. Thus St. Paul in Romans 16:25: “God…is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages [Greek αιωνιοις] and has now been manifested”. We see here that the word αιων means a limited duration of time, since the ages of time when the mystery had been kept secret came to an end when Christ appeared and was proclaimed by the apostles. Accordingly, one of the meanings of αιων in the Arndt-Gingrich lexicon is “a segment of time, age”. It can also mean “a world” as a spatial concept. Thus Hebrews 11 “By faith we understand that the worlds [Greek αιωνας] were created by the Word of God”.

But it can also mean everlasting, and as such it is applied to God and His dominion and power over all the cosmos, such as in 1 Timothy 6:16: “To Him [i.e. God] be honour and eternal [Greek αιωνιον] dominion”. Presumably God’s dominion is unending and everlasting. The debate about the precise meaning of aionion therefore cannot be solved simply by consulting a lexicon. The word varies in its meaning according to its usage.

What Does "Aionion" Mean? – No Other Foundation

In the debate about the theological validity of Christian universalism one sometimes finds discussion about the meaning of the word “eternal” in Matthew 25:46. Christ there says plainly that the unrighteous “will go away into eternal punishment”, and the word here rendered “eternal” is the Greek...

blogs.ancientfaith.com

 

[K9Buck]

Every single Bible translation renders anionion in the Matthew verse as "eternal". If the word is up for some kind of interpretation, that just does not happen.

I found this:

Sometimes the word αιων does indeed mean “age” in the sense of a limited duration of time which comes to an end. Thus St. Paul in Romans 16:25: “God…is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages [Greek αιωνιοις] and has now been manifested”. We see here that the word αιων means a limited duration of time, since the ages of time when the mystery had been kept secret came to an end when Christ appeared and was proclaimed by the apostles. Accordingly, one of the meanings of αιων in the Arndt-Gingrich lexicon is “a segment of time, age”. It can also mean “a world” as a spatial concept. Thus Hebrews 11 “By faith we understand that the worlds [Greek αιωνας] were created by the Word of God”.

But it can also mean everlasting, and as such it is applied to God and His dominion and power over all the cosmos, such as in 1 Timothy 6:16: “To Him [i.e. God] be honour and eternal [Greek αιωνιον] dominion”. Presumably God’s dominion is unending and everlasting. The debate about the precise meaning of aionion therefore cannot be solved simply by consulting a lexicon. The word varies in its meaning according to its usage.

What Does "Aionion" Mean? – No Other Foundation

In the debate about the theological validity of Christian universalism one sometimes finds discussion about the meaning of the word “eternal” in Matthew 25:46. Christ there says plainly that the unrighteous “will go away into eternal punishment”, and the word here rendered “eternal” is the Greek...

blogs.ancientfaith.com

You ignored the plethora of scripture that says that ALL mankind will be saved.

It's pointless for me to share God's words here because nobody reads them.

 

[ding]

You ignored the plethora of scripture that says that ALL mankind will be saved.

It's pointless for me to share God's words here because nobody reads them.

So if God spoke to you and said you misunderstood what you read would you place God above scripture or scripture above God?

 

[K9Buck]

So if God spoke to you and said you misunderstood what you read would you place God above scripture or scripture above God?

I would obviously defer to God.

 

[theHawk]

What does 1 Timothy 4:10 mean to you?

For to this end we toil and strive,[a] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe

Jesus is the Savior of all people yes, but he clearly said only those who believe and follow Him will be saved and have eternal life.

Nowhere does it say the outcome will be that all are saved.

 

[norwegen]

Every single Bible translation renders anionion in the Matthew verse as "eternal". If the word is up for some kind of interpretation, that just does not happen.

I found this:

Sometimes the word αιων does indeed mean “age” in the sense of a limited duration of time which comes to an end. Thus St. Paul in Romans 16:25: “God…is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages [Greek αιωνιοις] and has now been manifested”. We see here that the word αιων means a limited duration of time, since the ages of time when the mystery had been kept secret came to an end when Christ appeared and was proclaimed by the apostles. Accordingly, one of the meanings of αιων in the Arndt-Gingrich lexicon is “a segment of time, age”. It can also mean “a world” as a spatial concept. Thus Hebrews 11 “By faith we understand that the worlds [Greek αιωνας] were created by the Word of God”.

But it can also mean everlasting, and as such it is applied to God and His dominion and power over all the cosmos, such as in 1 Timothy 6:16: “To Him [i.e. God] be honour and eternal [Greek αιωνιον] dominion”. Presumably God’s dominion is unending and everlasting. The debate about the precise meaning of aionion therefore cannot be solved simply by consulting a lexicon. The word varies in its meaning according to its usage.

What Does "Aionion" Mean? – No Other Foundation

In the debate about the theological validity of Christian universalism one sometimes finds discussion about the meaning of the word “eternal” in Matthew 25:46. Christ there says plainly that the unrighteous “will go away into eternal punishment”, and the word here rendered “eternal” is the Greek...

blogs.ancientfaith.com

Worlds, or universe, as some translations may render it, is not age. That is, αἰῶνας is not αἰών (or αἰώνιος (eternal)). Three different words.

The word in Matthew 25:46 is αἰώνιος, or eternal, which does not imply “temporary.” That the OP included that verse suggests some confusion on his part.

Dissecting the other passages in the OP might be fun, but time-consuming and boring for other readers. I’ll just say that, like virtually all Christians, he proof-texts. Hell is not a crucible, and neither literal nor some spiritual underworld.

 

[SweetSue92]

You ignored the plethora of scripture that says that ALL mankind will be saved.

It's pointless for me to share God's words here because nobody reads them.

Excuse me. I read the Bible every single day. If you read it in context, I cannot find Scripture that says ALL people will be saved--unless you wildly cherry pick.

Moreover--and which you did not address--such a thing makes a mockery of God's biggest act of love and biggest sacrifice. Think of your own children, if you have any. If you have children and you're asked to sacrifice them, YOU BETTER KNOW that it's going to mean something. As an example, parents agreeing or supporting their children as they sign up for the military, which holds even the chance of sacrifice. The idea is that the sacrifice keeps the nation free and safe for the rest of us. If it did not, if it was all rendered moot in the end, which awful parent would agree?

 

[K9Buck]

So you folks believe that God created beings in his image and then permits them to be tortured for eternity?

That's simply not true but, if it is true, then the following verse is false.

1 Timothy 4:10 esv
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

 

[K9Buck]

Moreover--and which you did not address--such a thing makes a mockery of God's biggest act of love and biggest sacrifice.

Jesus's sacrifice saves the faithful from damnation, but gives ALL eternal life, although the nonfaithful will have to go through the crucible known as the Lake of Fire for correction and purification.

 

[K9Buck]

I believe this person makes a fair point.

 

[K9Buck]

1 John 4:7-9 esv

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

 

[Meriweather]

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

There are always two sides of scripture. While it is a happy thought to think all will spend eternity in the presence of God, not all of scripture indicates such will be the case. Jesus told the parable of the bridesmaids.

There were two lessons in that story. One, is that there are things that cannot be borrowed, especially not at the last minute. One cannot lend one's own salvation/justification to another. There can be a time when it is too late to be admitted.

In Jesus' parable, the bridesmaids did not receive a second chance to be admitted. Jesus did not offer any caveats for exceptions. Something to keep in mind.

 

[K9Buck]

In Jesus' parable, the bridesmaids did not receive a second chance to be admitted.

Yes, we are called to follow Jesus. The Bible is clear that those who refuse will face damnation, but it's not forever. If it's forever then 1 Timothy 4:10 is wrong and so are many, MANY, other verses.