Zone1 The "Lake of Fire" (Hell) is temporary, punitive, purifying, & restorative

[K9Buck]

What does this mean?

1 Corinthians 15:22 esv
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, we are called to follow Jesus. The Bible is clear that those who refuse will face damnation, but it's not forever. If it's forever then 1 Timothy 4:10 is wrong and so are many, MANY, other verses.

Or...you are taking Timothy out of context. Note your focus on the final phrase, "the savior of all" when immediately before this phrase, "we have set our hope on the living God."

The passage does note, "especially those who believe", so it appears atheists or non-believers are recognized--but nowhere in the letter does it assert that all who are evil will be purified and given salvation after death. The advice to Timothy is to toil in this life. A few lines before the line of your focus, Timothy is advised that devotion is valuable in evry respect, since it holds a promise of life for both the present and the future. This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance.

Also, recall Jesus telling his Apostles not to fear destruction of the body, but the destroying of both body and soul.

Again, I cannot imagine anyone who experiences God's love to reject it, but that is still a possibility, and God honors free will. He will not force His presence upon anyone. The purpose of this life is that we get to choose.

 

[Meriweather]

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

In this world, we can choose the way of the world (Adam and death) or the way of Christ (life).

 

[K9Buck]

Or...you are taking Timothy out of context. Note your focus on the final phrase, "the savior of all" when immediately before this phrase, "we have set our hope on the living God."

The passage does note, "especially those who believe", so it appears atheists or non-believers are recognized--but nowhere in the letter does it assert that all who are evil will be purified and given salvation after death. The advice to Timothy is to toil in this life. A few lines before the line of your focus, Timothy is advised that devotion is valuable in evry respect, since it holds a promise of life for both the present and the future. This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance.

Also, recall Jesus telling his Apostles not to fear destruction of the body, but the destroying of both body and soul.

Again, I cannot imagine anyone who experiences God's love to reject it, but that is still a possibility, and God honors free will. He will not force His presence upon anyone. The purpose of this life is that we get to choose.

He said "especially believers" because believers have been blessed by God.

Ephesians 2:8 esv
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

However, as the verse clearly states, ALL will be saved.

 

[K9Buck]

In this world, we can choose the way of the world (Adam and death) or the way of Christ (life).

My brother, the verse is clear: "In Christ ALL shall be made alive".

Have faith in God my brother. He never planned for his creation to die or suffer for eternity. Do not be deceived by the Satanic lie that God does that to his beloved creation, made in his image, no less.

 

[Meriweather]

However, as the verse clearly states, ALL will be saved.

This letter is better read in context. It does not address evil and evil doers, but those who work for the Lord. "All" almost always has a context. For example when I say, "All students must run the mile" obviously I am speaking to students in my PE class, not the students in Mr. Nye's science class.

I believe you are reading way too much into "all". Who is the letter addressed to? Who is it speaking about?

You may also be confusing hell with purgatory. Purgatory's root is to "purify" and Jesus did use purification by fire as an analogy or an example. He also told the evil to depart from him. And that statement was not followed with, "Until...."

I truly pray that the greater percent of human evil can be purified in the afterlife. But I can also imagine some people freely choose to be on their own rather than to be in service to God.

Finally, it does no good to dismiss the evil committed in the present with a, "It will all be pure and good in the afterlife."

 

[The Duke]

The Greek word aiónios is mistranslated in some instances into "forever" or "everlasting" or into "eternity". My understanding is that it can mean forever but oftentimes means for an age or for a time.

I like the English Standard Version (esv) Bible for its ease of reading but I have learned to double-check some verses with Young's Literal Translation (ylt) Bible (created in 1898) as it more accurately translates that word.

Here are some examples of verses translated by the esv vs. te ylt editions.


Mathew 25:46 ESV
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Mathew 25:46 YLT
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during

John 5:24 ESV​

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 5:24​

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Young's Literal Translation​

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24 `Verily, verily, I say to you -- He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.

2 Thessalonians 1:9​

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English Standard Version​

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9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from[a] the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

2 Thessalonians 1:9​

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Young's Literal Translation​

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9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,

No no, it says eternal lake of fire and for ever and ever.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT LAKE OF FIRE

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT LAKE OF FIRE. Lake Of Fire Bible verses in the King James Version (KJV) about Lake Of Fire.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[K9Buck]

No no, it says eternal lake of fire and for ever and ever.

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT LAKE OF FIRE

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT LAKE OF FIRE. Lake Of Fire Bible verses in the King James Version (KJV) about Lake Of Fire.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Actually it says "for the age of ages" when properly translated. God works with us in ages. At the end of the ages, we will ALL live with God in his kingdom.

 

[K9Buck]

Meriweather

John didn't say that Jesus takes away the sin of those who believe; he said that Jesus takes away the sins of the WORLD.


John 1:29 esv

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

 

[The Duke]

Actually it says "for the age of ages" when properly translated. God works with us in ages. At the end of the ages, we will ALL live with God in his kingdom.

"Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 20:7-10 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, (Read More...)

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

 

[Meriweather]

John didn't say that Jesus takes away the sin of those who believe; he said that Jesus takes away the sins of the WORLD.


John 1:29 esv

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Once again, it is vital to focus equally on all passages. Jesus also said, "Repentance (turning away from) for the forgiveness of sins.

I have met others who believe they can sin whenever they want because Christ took away all sins, past, present, and future upon his death. I am not claiming all will then feel free to sin all they want, but it does dismiss sin as being unimportant.

We are to turn from sin to God. No one else, nothing else.

 

[K9Buck]

"Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 20:7-10 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, (Read More...)

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Thank you my brother for sharing God's words.

Please look at those verses when properly translated through this link.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

www.biblegateway.com

 

[K9Buck]

Once again, it is vital to focus equally on all passages. Jesus also said, "Repentance (turning away from) for the forgiveness of sins.

I have met others who believe they can sin whenever they want because Christ took away all sins, past, present, and future upon his death. I am not claiming all will then feel free to sin all they want, but it does dismiss sin as being unimportant.

We are to turn from sin to God. No one else, nothing else.

Thanks. Yes, we are called to turn from sin and to follow Jesus. Those who refuse risk being sent into the Lake of Fire, a place that should be avoided at all cost. As a faithful Christian, I believe that I and other Christians (and perhaps Godly non-Christians) are spared that difficult experience. However, those that go there don't remain there forever. Otherwise, the verses I've provided you are wrong along with this one:

2 Corinthians 5:19 esv
that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[Meriweather]

Otherwise, the verses I've provided you are wrong along with this one:

Seriously, stop with the proof-texting (also known as cherry-picking). As I have noted several times, the Bible covers all avenues, all opposites. We need to be equally familiar with both sides. We need to be comfortable with not knowing.

What I do know is God's love and that He is doing everything He can; and I also know He honors and respects our free will. That does not mean that He will not attempt to convince us, but there is always that point where the choice is ours alone, no matter how hard it might be to turn down God. Jonah had that choice, but in the end he chose God's way even though he felt it cost him to do so.

God's grace...our choice. In both the great and the small.

 

[The Duke]

Thank you my brother for sharing God's words.

Please look at those verses when properly translated through this link.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

www.biblegateway.com

I'm quite familiar with the English language, thank you.

 

[K9Buck]

Seriously, stop with the proof-texting...

I'm sharing God's words. My opinion means nothing. Only God's words can be relied upon as true.

 

[K9Buck]

I'm quite familiar with the English language, thank you.

I know, but how's your Greek? Let's look at Revelation 20:10 when PROPERLY translated from the original Greek in which it was written.

Revelation 20:10 YLT
10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm sharing God's words. My opinion means nothing. Only God's words can be relied upon as true.

You are sharing some and ignoring others. You are sharing what you want.

 

[ding]

I'm sharing God's words. My opinion means nothing. Only God's words can be relied upon as true.

You do know that God didn't write the bible, right?

 

[K9Buck]

You are sharing some and ignoring others. You are sharing what you want.

Incorrect. On the contrary, it is YOU that is ignoring ALL of the scripture that says that ALL will be with God in the end.