The Israel/Palestinian Equation

[sky dancer]

I hope that wasn't an insult towards me.

By the way, aren't you the one who kept confusing me as a Conservative the other day?

How could anyone confuse you as a conservative?

 

[Bobby_Ray]

Israel's response in terms of life, death and injuries is much more harsh than the end result of the rocket attacks on Israel. This is true. However, simply because the terrorists were bad shots does not somehow excuse what they did or Israel's right to respond in kind.

If I were the Palestinian's I would round the people up who shot off the rockets and hand them over to the Israeli's. Let the Israeli's know through action that you will not support this type of action coming from any area you can police. How can Israel expect to feel safe with you governing yourself when you cannot have any influence at all over these terror groups. Stating that you don't agree with the terror groups is well and good, but, that does nothing to stop them!

In turn, if steps are taken to stop them, I mean real steps, then Israel needs to aid the Palestinian's in that effort, not bomb them. This is the same old vicious circle.

It's sad because truly innocent people on both sides are the ones who suffer the most.

Well, unfortunately, it was the Palestinian people who elected Hamas to govern them-and I doubt if they regret it yet-maybe they never will, because they seem to hate Israel more. Israel needs to secure some kind of peace treaty with Hamas, and the surrounding nations, or they will never live in peace in the Middle East, because as has already been stated, it is Israel who came to the Middle East from Europe in 1948, and started trying to force the Arabs who were already there with war that they had a right to exist. We both know that if America were not supporting Israel, that they would have long since been destroyed in their endeavors to occupy any part of Israel and Jerusalem for their strategic purposes, and the potash fertilizer that is assumed to be worth close to a trillion dollars. The world is not stupid, and knows all about Israel's reasoning for being in the Middle east in the first place, and why America is supporting her. However, America should find some other peaceful Middle Eastern allie to look after her interest over there, and abandon Israel, because eventually the world is going to turn against Israel, it's just a matter of time, and it will be due to the fact that Israel has extremely valuable natural resources, and is a extremely valuable strategic location. All past wars started due to the nations involved desire for economic resources and strategic advantages for war-today's present conflicts between Israel and the Middle east are no different. As for the Palestinians, they will most likely just be collateral damage for all concerned, because obtaining control over the vast natural resources over there is more important to the powerful world nations than helping the Palestinian people. If this were not so, they wouldn't be living in substandard conditions now.

 

[strollingbones]

I hope that wasn't an insult towards me.

By the way, aren't you the one who kept confusing me as a Conservative the other day?

did you find it insulting to have your age mentioned?

and no i have never confused you as being a conservative...seems you are the one confused about that...

i was making a point to divecon..perhaps he was the only one who understood my point...

 

[Modbert]

How could anyone confuse you as a conservative?

The conversation was whether there were any true conservatives left.

I proposed Chuck Hagel and or Colin Powell as two choices.

 

[Modbert]

did you find it insulting to have your age mentioned?

and no i have never confused you as being a conservative...seems you are the one confused about that...

i was making a point to divecon..perhaps he was the only one who understood my point...

"with a kid..isn't he only 18 or so?" seemed a bit insulting. I always found that age really did not matter when it came to knowledge if the person knew what they were talking about.

And ah, I see.

 

[Bobby_Ray]

I thought Israel was supposedly firing at only military places?

I also remembered reading a story where Israel so far has no comment after a missile hit a house which killed the five children in the house.

And really, ONLY 50? If that was 50 Israelis civilians dead, you'd be at the mouth foaming with rage.

For every 6.4 militants they kill, 1 civilian dies.

In this latest battle alone over 30 Palestinian children have been killed, and hundreds of civilians. At first launch, Israel was just trying to target Hamas headquarters-but, Hamas is using guerilla warfare style tactics against Israel, so they immersed themselves within the Palestinian population, and this is why more Palestinians are being killed instead of Hamas or Palestinian militants.

 

[Annie]

In this latest battle alone over 30 Palestinian children have been killed, and hundreds of civilians. At first launch, Israel was just trying to target Hamas headquarters-but, Hamas is using guerilla warfare style tactics against Israel, so they immersed themselves within the Palestinian population, and this is why more Palestinians are being killed instead of Hamas or Palestinian militants.

While Hamas is immersing themselves within the general population, even Palestinian sources agree that the majority of the killed are Hamas operatives.

 

[Bobby_Ray]

My question to those supporting that Israel should never respond, what would you propose they do? Abandon their land? Just let Hamas take over? What?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they should not respond, however, they should respond in a manner that is equal to the damage done to them during an attack on them. O.k. so far only one Israeli civilian has been reported killed in this latest conflict. The Israeli government blows its top, doesn't think things throug, and just goes on a murdering airstrike raid over Gaza, killing mostly civilians, while deceptively claiming it is targeting Hamas infastructures. I suppose numerous civilian Palestinian houses, schools, marketplaces, and Universities that were populated with civilians were also Hamas infastructures? Come on now, I think you know what we all mean when we say Israel shouldn't have responded the way it did. No, Israel should have sent ground forces into Hamas infastructures at night, and if Hamas wasn't there, then Israel should have just occupied the structures until either they captured Hamas, and dealt with them accordingly, or requested more U.N. sanctions to be placed on Hamas-not the Palestinian people. War should have been the last alternative in this situation.

 

[DiveCon]

While Hamas is immersing themselves within the general population, even Palestinian sources agree that the majority of the killed are Hamas operatives.

i just wish they would worry about the thousands of rockets that Hamas keeps firing into Israel
just because they arent as effective, doesnt mean they are just as deadly if they actually hit their targets
the bigger problem is their targets are always at civilians

 

[Modbert]

I shall repeat again a simple fact for anyone who has studied military history; especially the last 60 years.

Artillery only goes so far. You can bomb a country to hell but the only way you've truly won a battle is when your infantry can go in there and occupy the land peacefully.

Besides, even Artillery is not as accurate as can be and does not have any thought of whom they might be killing as a soldier would.

(And yes, for the sake of this conversation I am including missiles under Artillery)

 

[DiveCon]

I shall repeat again a simple fact for anyone who has studied military history; especially the last 60 years.

Artillery only goes so far. You can bomb a country to hell but the only way you've truly won a battle is when your infantry can go in there and occupy the land peacefully.

Besides, even Artillery is not as accurate as can be and does not have any thought of whom they might be killing as a soldier would.

(And yes, for the sake of this conversation I am including missiles under Artillery)

XM982 Excalibur 155mm Precision Guided Extended Range Artillery Projectile

Cannon Challenge Game : Future Weapons : Discovery Channel

not so anymore

 

[Annie]

i just wish they would worry about the thousands of rockets that Hamas keeps firing into Israel
just because they arent as effective, doesnt mean they are just as deadly if they actually hit their targets
the bigger problem is their targets are always at civilians

Israel and we may mind, but the real answer about civilians is answered by the Palestinian news sources. That was my point.

 

[Godboy]

For all of you that are angry over Israel not responding in the same fashion as they were attacked by the Palestinians...what do you suggest? Should they indescriminately fire rockets into gaza everyday? Would that be an appropriate response? Should they have childrens programming on their tv stations about hating the palis? Should they blow up some resturaunts and night clubs in Gaza? Should they purposely target civilians with every attack?

If the Israelis were to kill 3 people instead of 300 people, would that stop the rocket attacks? If they were to do less damage to their enemies, in what way would this be benificial to Israels safety?

The palis are damn lucky the Israelis arent evil like THEY are. I have no doubt that if the palis had the ability, they would wipe Israel out, i think that much it fairly obvious to everyone. Do you have any idea how simple it would be for Israel to obliterate the palis if they wanted to? I disagree with the claim that you MUST have ground troops to win a war. If you were barbaric enough, you could carpet bomb them until every structure was destroyed, and the few survivors would be forced to migrate elsewhere. Really, it would just take one of Isreals hundreds of nuclear missles (they must have 100 at the least), to destroy the Palestinians.

Its pretty clear that Israel has the moral high ground in this matter, and if the palis stop firing rockets into their territory, the violence would stop, but they wont because they are a twisted culture in desperate need of purging. I couldnt care less how they got to where they are today, so dont bother with your one sided history lesson about the poor palestinians, they just need to get their shit together and stop trying to kill jews and all will be well.

 

[Annie]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they should not respond, however, they should respond in a manner that is equal to the damage done to them during an attack on them. O.k. so far only one Israeli civilian has been reported killed in this latest conflict. The Israeli government blows its top, doesn't think things throug, and just goes on a murdering airstrike raid over Gaza, killing mostly civilians, while deceptively claiming it is targeting Hamas infastructures. I suppose numerous civilian Palestinian houses, schools, marketplaces, and Universities that were populated with civilians were also Hamas infastructures? Come on now, I think you know what we all mean when we say Israel shouldn't have responded the way it did. No, Israel should have sent ground forces into Hamas infastructures at night, and if Hamas wasn't there, then Israel should have just occupied the structures until either they captured Hamas, and dealt with them accordingly, or requested more U.N. sanctions to be placed on Hamas-not the Palestinian people. War should have been the last alternative in this situation.

What you are saying is that even though Israel is ready for the bronze age, they need to respond as if in the stone age, because that is where Hamas is.

 

[jakbo]

No nation has the right to exist? Huh?



Do you sympathize with all of the Israelis injured or killed by Hamas? Few? Hamas is not comprised of a few militants here or there. Hamas is comprised of tens if not hundreds of thousands of terrorists based in Gaza. It's a cancer.



American interests do not only support Israel because Israel buys up a lot of bombs from us. Americans support Israel because Israel had a right to exist. That is why we supply Israel with weapons. Your failure to understand this simple concept is a failure to understand the entire Middle East problem. Israel has a right to exist. This is not an opinion. This is a fact. Jews have the right to their homeland where they originate from. That is Israel. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. Once again, you fail to understand this.



With 40 year old soviet technology? I highly doubt that.



Please show me your evidence of these Nazi-like concentration camps. The walls are meant to divide Gaza from Israel, to keep the people that want to blow themselves up on Israeli buses and cafes and what not on their side. Israel has a right to create a border wall to defend its people. Once again, you fail to acknowledge that any country has a right to defend itself.



Palestine was created from Israel you idiot. You cannot "occupy" your own land.

I know I said I'd address your "points", but I don't feel like arguing with a fucking wall (YOU) right now. Nothing I can say will get through to you anyway. I'm writing you off; you're opinions are fucking worthless.

 

[Annie]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they should not respond, however, they should respond in a manner that is equal to the damage done to them during an attack on them. O.k. so far only one Israeli civilian has been reported killed in this latest conflict. The Israeli government blows its top, doesn't think things throug, and just goes on a murdering airstrike raid over Gaza, killing mostly civilians, while deceptively claiming it is targeting Hamas infastructures. I suppose numerous civilian Palestinian houses, schools, marketplaces, and Universities that were populated with civilians were also Hamas infastructures? Come on now, I think you know what we all mean when we say Israel shouldn't have responded the way it did. No, Israel should have sent ground forces into Hamas infastructures at night, and if Hamas wasn't there, then Israel should have just occupied the structures until either they captured Hamas, and dealt with them accordingly, or requested more U.N. sanctions to be placed on Hamas-not the Palestinian people. War should have been the last alternative in this situation.

I disagree. Israel didn't sign onto Protocol 1 of the Conventions, for good reason. They are not bound by 'proportionality' which is basically something for countries unwilling to defend themselves to hide behind.

 

[jillian]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they should not respond, however, they should respond in a manner that is equal to the damage done to them during an attack on them.

In theory what you say is nice. But I would disagree. You have the right to remove the threat against your people. In this case, the threat is constant missiles being lobbed into Israel.

Hamas is like the obnoxious bully at school, who trips you every time you walk past because they know you'll get into trouble with the principal if you hit them back... and then goes crying to mommy the minute you get them outside of school.

And, BTW, yes, Hamas hides its infrastructure inside of civilian areas so they can cry and say how the mean Israeli's are killing civilians.

 

[Shogun]

talk about fucking irony. We've been hearing israel prattle on for three fucking years about the US attacking iran but it's the PALIs who are the big giant bully. boo fucking hoo jews. Go kill yourself another hundred civilians, hopefully children, and satiate your fucking hunger for non-jewish blood.

 

[DavidS]

talk about fucking irony. We've been hearing israel prattle on for three fucking years about the US attacking iran but it's the PALIs who are the big giant bully. boo fucking hoo jews. Go kill yourself another hundred civilians, hopefully children, and satiate your fucking hunger for non-jewish blood.

Sieg Heil!

 

[osaileh]

thx alot