The Israel/Palestinian Equation

[DiveCon]

So how is that the innocents fault? They're gonna say no to letting them use their house supposedly then? Oh yeah, I'm sure Hamas won't mind and wouldn't kill them.

Stop trying to justify Israelis bombs that have killed civilians. Besides, if these are missiles then what the fuck difference would uniforms make?

fuck you
you are too fucking stupid for words

 

[Annie]

So how is that the innocents fault? They're gonna say no to letting them use their house supposedly then? Oh yeah, I'm sure Hamas won't mind and wouldn't kill them.

Stop trying to justify Israelis bombs that have killed civilians. Besides, if these are missiles then what the fuck difference would uniforms make?

I think you've just stated the problem with Hamas. Israel hasn't control of Hamas or its tactics, that they force civilians to house them, really isn't Israel's fault.

 

[Bobby_Ray]

Good post. I agree with almost everything you said.

You're correct in essentially saying that no nation has a right to exist. That goes for both the Palestinians and the Israelis.

I sympathize with the innocent Palestinian civilians suffering at the hands of brutal Israeli oppression as a consequence of the senseless aggression of a few militants who obviously do not have the best interests of the greater Palestinian society in mind. With that in mind, the Palestinian people, if they truly want to stop being victims, must get their shit together and put in place some leaders that know how to play the world political game and will keep the best interests of the Palestinians at the forefront of all Palestinian policy. Right now, I'd say getting along with their Israeli neighbors would be in the best interest of the Palestinian people and that is the goal any future Palestinian leaders should strive for.

I think of Israel as nothing more than a remnant of British imperialism. It's a remnant that persists because an Israeli occupied Palestine serves our interests. Right now, the Israelis have one thing going for them and that is their location; it's a strategic beach head into the Middle East for the Western powers. The fact of the matter is that we have major interests in the Middle East and the Israelis are sort of our little watchdogs, so to speak. We get intelligence from them and they are our only real ally over there. That relationship works for both the Israelis and us, for now. As soon as it is no longer in our interests to support Israel, I'm sure we probably won't support Israel. If and when this scenario plays itself out, I'm sure the Israelis will find out that they indeed do not have a right to exist as the Arab world eventually forces the Israelis out of the Middle East.

There is no doubt about it that the Israeli brutality towards and oppression of the Palestinian people is wrong (Nazi like concentration camps and Apartheid walls and such) and any retaliation by Palestinian militants is well-deserved, but until the United States starts pursuing interests that are more in line with human decency and morality as opposed to maintaining a militaristic hegemony in the Middle East, the status quo in Israeli occupied Palestine will remain in tact.

Most of what you are saying is correct, however, I don't know how much longer the Arab world and surrounding nations will continue to just sit idlely by and watch Israel brutely kill innocent Palestinean civilians every time they blow their top over Hamas, and Palestinian militants shell the outskirts of their borders with inferior rockets. There was a little condemnation and saber rattling from Chinese government officials today-calling Israel a spoiled child of the U.S. However, all nations overall are still just sitting back and watch this deliberate massacre by Israel. However, Hamas and Palestinian militants are launching rockets further into Israel as of date, and there is suspicion that Iran is secretly starting to supply Hamas and Palestinian militants with more advanced ranged superior missles to launch at Israel. If China and Russia truly start helping the Palestinians, Israel is toast, and chances are, America will abandon Israel, and work out some kind of deal with Russia and China to secure our own interests in the Middle East. Right now, the majority of the world sees Israel as a bullying occupying war machine trying to forcefully acquire what it wants by way of airstrikes. However, this entire tit for tat scenerio is only going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. It could very well be the beginning of WW3.

 

[Bobby_Ray]

David S said:



To the parts I bolded David, one by one.

1.) That's correct, without us Israel wouldn't exist in the first place. We don't support them because they have a right to exist, we support them because they are our foothold in the middle east.

2.) No, it's a opinion. No nation has a right to exist, and if it is a right then who gave them the right? God?

3.) Alright then, feel free to move aside as Native Americans come back to take their homeland in which they originate from. Oh and by the way? You're getting nothing for your land.

See David, your heart is in the right place (sorta) but your logic is all screwed up.

Which is why I hate these arguments. Too much emotion, not enough logic.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Modbert]

I think you've just stated the problem with Hamas. Israel hasn't control of Hamas or its tactics, that they force civilians to house them, really isn't Israel's fault.

True, that really isn't Israel's fault, but it's not the civilians fault like dumbo (Divecon) here is suggesting.

 

[Modbert]

fuck you
you are too fucking stupid for words

Oh yes, that's adding quite alot to the conversation.

Just dodge my question instead and tell me to go fuck myself.

Any other words of enlightenment you care to share?

 

[Annie]

True, that really isn't Israel's fault, but it's not the civilians fault like dumbo (Divecon) here is suggesting.

So, address what is relevant and ignore what isn't. Not difficult.

 

[DiveCon]

True, that really isn't Israel's fault, but it's not the civilians fault like dumbo (Divecon) here is suggesting.

fuck you again, moron
i NEVER SAID that or even infered it

 

[DiveCon]

So, address what is relevant and ignore what isn't. Not difficult.

hes lying, AGAIN

 

[Annie]

hes lying, AGAIN

Be that as it may be or not, I was giving advice in general about decent posting. If I think someone is uninformed, misinformed, or just propagandizing, it's better to ignore than get into flames with. IMHO.

 

[Modbert]

fuck you again, moron
i NEVER SAID that or even infered it

Then why bring up the uniforms and other things?

You cannot blame the civilians for the actions of Hamas. You can say "Oh why haven't they overthrown Hamas yet" but that would be ignorance.

Like any sort of situation like this, it's not just one person in charge.

 

[Modbert]

Be that as it may be or not, I was giving advice in general about decent posting. If I think someone is uninformed, misinformed, or just propagandizing, it's better to ignore than get into flames with. IMHO.

Tis true, I guess it bothers me more then anything some of the reactions I've been seeing.

P.S: Get this through your thick head for the last time divey. No neg rep of yours is going to scare me into apologizing to you.

 

[DiveCon]

Then why bring up the uniforms and other things?

You cannot blame the civilians for the actions of Hamas. You can say "Oh why haven't they overthrown Hamas yet" but that would be ignorance.

Like any sort of situation like this, it's not just one person in charge.

i WASNT asshole
i was blaming HAMAS while YOU are blaming Israel

 

[DiveCon]

Tis true, I guess it bothers me more then anything some of the reactions I've been seeing.

P.S: Get this through your thick head for the last time divey. No neg rep of yours is going to scare me into apologizing to you.

asshole
you have no respect
you LIED
you are scum
fuck off

 

[strollingbones]

What is your source that most of the 300 dead are civilians?

o the irony of those who never post their sources asking others for theirs

 

[Bobby_Ray]

An individual have a right to exist, and a right to their property, and their liberty. Beyond that, absolutely not. No government, ever, has the right to exist. A government is to serve a people, and if it's no longer doing that, a people has a right to destroy that government. For all intents and purposes, Israel's government is not serving the people of the West Bank and Gaza (and let's not kid ourselves, the Palestinian Authority is a joke and has no authority), so if people feel compelled to topple the Israeli government, they have every right to.



1948 = Israel's creation. It didn't exist before then. Israel was a creation of British imperialism.

In this situation, despite Hamas being the perpetrators and initiators of violence, Israel should not be targeting civilian structures, like the University they just destroyed. A little too much like burning books, huh? Israel is justified to retaliate to rocket attacks, but not in the severity we've seen, at all.

You're absolutely correct, and it is obvious that neither Hamas or the Israeli government are serving and protecting their own people. Hamas is cowardly using the Palestinian people for collateral shields in their weak guerilla war tactics against Israel, and Israel is allowing some of its people to be killed in order to justify their own intentions of blatant genocide of the Palestinian people in order to further their own strategic positions throughout the Gaza strip and Israel. However, the world is watching now, and some world leaders like China are starting to condemn Israel's latest airstrike murders of the Palestinian people. Many world leaders are now starting to say that Israel's present brutal force is way too harsh compared to Hamas' inferior rocket launches into Israel. Eventually, something will be done either by the Arab nations and their allies, or by some more powerful nations throughout the world to stem the violence in Israel, Palestine, and the Middle East.

 

[strollingbones]

asshole
you have no respect
you LIED
you are scum
fuck off

might i point out here divecon you are fussing with a kid...isnt he only 18 or so?

 

[Modbert]

i WASNT asshole
i was blaming HAMAS while YOU are blaming Israel

I'm not blaming Israel for defending itself. I'm blaming people who blame Hamas for using civilians as human shields. So suddenly that makes it okay to kill civilians? No

If war has taught us anything it's that Artillery is only useful up to a point. At some point, Infantry has to be used.

 

[Modbert]

asshole
you have no respect
you LIED
you are scum
fuck off

Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong.

Three strikes, and you're foolish.

Though technically that would be four strikes. Depends on what you say I have no respect for.

 

[Modbert]

might i point out here divecon you are fussing with a kid...isnt he only 18 or so?

I hope that wasn't an insult towards me.

By the way, aren't you the one who kept confusing me as a Conservative the other day?