CDZ The Iranian nuclear deal: a deeper look

[PhilosphyBeforeParty]

I think the deal was the best solution we could have. The international sanctions would not have gone on indefinately. Already several major powers were restless. It brought them to the table and both sides had to sacrifice some - but what is the alternative?

- no deal, no talking and indefinate US sanctions, less certain international sanctions - Iran, in a corner saying fuck you we're going to do it.
- have sanctions been very effective with NK?
- this deal, *might* prevent a nuclear weapon - if it doesn't, it at least delays it and gives us more transparency (something we do not have with NK).

Most of all - WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE?

None of the critics are giving realistic alternative plans. Sometimes - the best solution is the best of multiple bad ones. Similar to what we faced with NK.

that basically sums up my argument. I couldn't have said it better myself. thanks.

People want a "perfect" deal - in cases like this you aren't going to get it, you have to grab an opportunity when it presents itself - with Iran, it's a newly elected president committed to coming to the table, it's the effects of the sanctions, and it's a US president committed to negotiating. So it's not perfect. It's not bad. It's very like what prior adminstrations were faced with on NK's nuclear ambitions.

Iran is not playing according to Hoyle or the Marquis of Queensbury rules. They are like a dog with a bone and they are going to worry that bone with one thing in mind: The destruction of Israel. Period. They have a one track mind and tunnel vision. They are on a mission and Obama and cohorts only made them take a detour.

that is simply not true. you are oversimplifying the problem.

Iran says those things. Don't you get world news?

im tired of typing. go read my essay again for my response to that.

 

[Indofred]

I'm thinking deeply.

Nobody makes a bargain with somebody that is screaming "Death To America" if you're an American.

that is not thinking deeply. that is thinking superficially, at best.

Superficial is a great compliment to that post - I was going for "total crap".

There's all this talk about Iran's attitude to America, but it all ignores the whole thing was started by America, and America is the bully trying to destroy them.

Of course they're pissed off with America, America has been interfering in their country, attacking their country, and trying to bankrupt their country for years.

 

[blunthead]

I'm thinking deeply.

Nobody makes a bargain with somebody that is screaming "Death To America" if you're an American.

that is not thinking deeply. that is thinking superficially, at best.

Superficial is a great compliment to that post - I was going for "total crap".

There's all this talk about Iran's attitude to America, but it all ignores the whole thing was started by America, and America is the bully trying to destroy them.

Of course they're pissed off with America, America has been interfering in their country, attacking their country, and trying to bankrupt their country for years.

You are sooooo brainwashed.

 

[Hossfly]

I'm thinking deeply.

Nobody makes a bargain with somebody that is screaming "Death To America" if you're an American.

that is not thinking deeply. that is thinking superficially, at best.

Superficial is a great compliment to that post - I was going for "total crap".

There's all this talk about Iran's attitude to America, but it all ignores the whole thing was started by America, and America is the bully trying to destroy them.

Of course they're pissed off with America, America has been interfering in their country, attacking their country, and trying to bankrupt their country for years.

You are sooooo brainwashed.

It's called a Fleet Enema.

 

[Indofred]

You are sooooo brainwashed.

Do you deny the CIA coup that removed the democratically elected government?
Do you deny America put the Shah into power?
Do you deny the shah was a brutal killer?

If I'm brainwashed, I'm sure you can correct these historical errors - with valid links to prove it.

 

[blunthead]

You are sooooo brainwashed.

Do you deny the CIA coup that removed the democratically elected government?
Do you deny America put the Shah into power?
Do you deny the shah was a brutal killer?

If I'm brainwashed, I'm sure you can correct these historical errors - with valid links to prove it.

If you're brainwashed, which you are, you don't anything. And why should I have to provide valid links when you don't?

 

[Indofred]

You are sooooo brainwashed.

Do you deny the CIA coup that removed the democratically elected government?
Do you deny America put the Shah into power?
Do you deny the shah was a brutal killer?

If I'm brainwashed, I'm sure you can correct these historical errors - with valid links to prove it.

If you're brainwashed, which you are, you don't anything. And why should I have to provide valid links when you don't?

CIA admits role in 1953 Iranian coup World news The Guardian

Declassified documents describe in detail how US – with British help – engineered coup against Mohammad Mosaddeq

Photos Memories of Shah s Secret Service SAVAK at Tehran s Ebrat Museum

SAVAK has been described as Iran's "most hated and feared institution" prior to the revolution of 1979 because of its practice of torturing and executing opponents of the Pahlavi regime.

Now I've linked to undisputed history, even though some want it forgotten, please comment on America's involvement and how you think it didn't cause today's problems.

 

[irosie91]

for those interested in REALITY------contrary to the claims by islamo Nazi shit---that the CIA (make that the ""zonist controlled cia""") enacted a coup on the Iranian leadership and IMPOSED a ZIONIST CONTROLED SHAH----the reality is that the CIA simply agreed with Iranians in IRAN-----that a coup was a good idea and did provide some minimal support. For the rest find an Iranian----there are lots and lots in the USA who long for the GOOD OLD SHAH DAYS as opposed to the stink which now exists in Iran at the hands of SHITTY AYATOILETS. The shitty ayatoilets not only murder Iranians----they murder thruout the world----via their murder militias HEZBOLLAH of which Freddie is very proud-------the streets of SANAA'A Yemen have been red with blood for years thanks to people like Freddie who support the actions of Hezbollah and Iranian backed HOUTHIS in Yemen. ------for clarification-----find a nice Yemeni grocer in the USA and discuss the situation "back home" ---of course that person would have to trust you before he discussed this issue.

 

[Tehon]

for those interested in REALITY------contrary to the claims by islamo Nazi shit---that the CIA (make that the ""zonist controlled cia""") enacted a coup on the Iranian leadership and IMPOSED a ZIONIST CONTROLED SHAH----the reality is that the CIA simply agreed with Iranians in IRAN-----that a coup was a good idea and did provide some minimal support. For the rest find an Iranian----there are lots and lots in the USA who long for the GOOD OLD SHAH DAYS as opposed to the stink which now exists in Iran at the hands of SHITTY AYATOILETS. The shitty ayatoilets not only murder Iranians----they murder thruout the world----via their murder militias HEZBOLLAH of which Freddie is very proud-------the streets of SANAA'A Yemen have been red with blood for years thanks to people like Freddie who support the actions of Hezbollah and Iranian backed HOUTHIS in Yemen. ------for clarification-----find a nice Yemeni grocer in the USA and discuss the situation "back home" ---of course that person would have to trust you before he discussed this issue.

Your post is a ridiculous fairytale that you made up.^
In July of 1952 Mossadegh resigned as PM over a dispute with the Shah. The next day the people of Iran took to the streets chanting "give me death, or give me Mossadegh". After 3 days Mossadegh rescinded his resignation and the Shah had to reappoint him as PM.
The evidence is not even in dispute that the CIA orchestrated the entire coup not merely provide some minimal support.

 

[irosie91]

for those interested in REALITY------contrary to the claims by islamo Nazi shit---that the CIA (make that the ""zonist controlled cia""") enacted a coup on the Iranian leadership and IMPOSED a ZIONIST CONTROLED SHAH----the reality is that the CIA simply agreed with Iranians in IRAN-----that a coup was a good idea and did provide some minimal support. For the rest find an Iranian----there are lots and lots in the USA who long for the GOOD OLD SHAH DAYS as opposed to the stink which now exists in Iran at the hands of SHITTY AYATOILETS. The shitty ayatoilets not only murder Iranians----they murder thruout the world----via their murder militias HEZBOLLAH of which Freddie is very proud-------the streets of SANAA'A Yemen have been red with blood for years thanks to people like Freddie who support the actions of Hezbollah and Iranian backed HOUTHIS in Yemen. ------for clarification-----find a nice Yemeni grocer in the USA and discuss the situation "back home" ---of course that person would have to trust you before he discussed this issue.

Your post is a ridiculous fairytale that you made up.^
In July of 1952 Mossadegh resigned as PM over a dispute with the Shah. The next day the people of Iran took to the streets chanting "give me death, or give me Mossadegh". After 3 days Mossadegh rescinded his resignation and the Shah had to reappoint him as PM.
The evidence is not even in dispute that the CIA orchestrated the entire coup not merely provide some minimal support.

the "FACT" that the Nazi murder of 6 million jews happned----happens to be a lie is not in dispute in Nazi headquarters either----I have my information from Iranians----mostly muslim Iranians and a few jewish Iranians who fled the filth of the Ayatoilets. The FACT that Turkish muslims murders some 2 million Armenians 1915 -- 1917 is in dispute----Turkish muslims deny it -----my mom told me about it in the 1950s when I was a child----as an adult, I sat at the beside of a survivor------dying of heart failure. As an adult ---I treated many victims of that which your fellow islamo Nazi dogs claim "NEVER HAPPENED"

 

[Tehon]

for those interested in REALITY------contrary to the claims by islamo Nazi shit---that the CIA (make that the ""zonist controlled cia""") enacted a coup on the Iranian leadership and IMPOSED a ZIONIST CONTROLED SHAH----the reality is that the CIA simply agreed with Iranians in IRAN-----that a coup was a good idea and did provide some minimal support. For the rest find an Iranian----there are lots and lots in the USA who long for the GOOD OLD SHAH DAYS as opposed to the stink which now exists in Iran at the hands of SHITTY AYATOILETS. The shitty ayatoilets not only murder Iranians----they murder thruout the world----via their murder militias HEZBOLLAH of which Freddie is very proud-------the streets of SANAA'A Yemen have been red with blood for years thanks to people like Freddie who support the actions of Hezbollah and Iranian backed HOUTHIS in Yemen. ------for clarification-----find a nice Yemeni grocer in the USA and discuss the situation "back home" ---of course that person would have to trust you before he discussed this issue.

Your post is a ridiculous fairytale that you made up.^
In July of 1952 Mossadegh resigned as PM over a dispute with the Shah. The next day the people of Iran took to the streets chanting "give me death, or give me Mossadegh". After 3 days Mossadegh rescinded his resignation and the Shah had to reappoint him as PM.
The evidence is not even in dispute that the CIA orchestrated the entire coup not merely provide some minimal support.

the "FACT" that the Nazi murder of 6 million jews happned----happens to be a lie is not in dispute in Nazi headquarters either----I have my information from Iranians----mostly muslim Iranians and a few jewish Iranians who fled the filth of the Ayatoilets. The FACT that Turkish muslims murders some 2 million Armenians 1915 -- 1917 is in dispute----Turkish muslims deny it -----my mom told me about it in the 1950s when I was a child----as an adult, I sat at the beside of a survivor------dying of heart failure. As an adult ---I treated many victims of that which your fellow islamo Nazi dogs claim "NEVER HAPPENED"

How is any of that relevant to your denial of the CIA's overthrow of a popular, elected official of Iran in 1953?

 

[eagle1462010]

I am posting my first thread for the same reason I joined this online forum. I am not a politician, nor do I know any, and I am too young for anyone who does not personally know me to give any thought to my arguments. For this reason, I turned to the internet, where everyone’s view will be given consideration (at least by the intelligent, rational people). I believe that the best way for me to help the world before I reach what I like to call “the age of perceived credibility” is for me to clearly and fully explain issues which are often oversimplified and manipulated by bureaucrats in an attempt not necessarily to win people over to my side (although when I am confident that I have a good answer/solution concerning to an issue, that will be the goal), but to get people to think more deeply about world issues rather than blindly accepting what the party they have aligned themselves with says. The first issue I would like to discuss is the new agreement made between the US and Iran, as it has been a topic of much debate for quite some time, and will most certainly be an important issue in the upcoming 2016 presidential election. Please let me know what you think in the comments. I am open minded and willing to consider any and all points of view, no matter how ridiculous they seem superficially. Now enough exposition, and on to the essay.


This new deal has been getting quite a bit of backlash from the right, most notably the republicans in the US and Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Most critics of the agreement say that this deal only gives Iran more money to advance its nuclear program, fund terrorist groups, and stir up trouble in the Middle East. Assuming that this is what will happen, the deal is obviously counterproductive. But alas, there lies the quintessential dilemma. I do not believe that this is the case: these claims are made by people who look at the deal and ask themselves: “does this hurt Iran more than it helps it?” This not the way we should be thinking. This results from the “us vs. them” mentality that has been cultivated in our society by the two party system, which I will explain my opinions on in a future essay. This deal was not about gaining an advantage over Iran, but about cooperating with it and benefitting both countries and the world as a result.

This agreement with Iran will not, as many people claim to believe, cause Iran to put more money into their nuclear program and fund more terrorist groups. If the Iranian government and people saw this as “finally escaping from the crushing weight of the westerner’s sanctions”, this would surely be the case. But Iran is not a country of radical religious zealots, but rather a country of people eager and ready to join the modern world who see it instead as “a new chance to cooperate with the west”. The only people who oversimplify the agreement and say that all it does is give Iran more money to stir up trouble are the far-right republicans who rely on painting everything any democrat does as bad in order to get votes. Their voters are the ignorant people who are willing to believe anything they are told. DO NOT fall into this trap.

This deal will also reduce terrorism. The main cause of terrorism is desperation. People who are impoverished, starving, and oppressed often feel that it is the only option left. Nobody with a steady job, clean house, and healthy family decides to become a suicide bomber. This is another issue often oversimplified by manipulative, bureaucratic politicians. They seem to think that these are evil people, and the only solution is to bomb the heck out of them, when in reality this is the most effective method of making more terrorists. With the exception if ISIS (which is a special case that I may write an essay on in the future), the best and only way to end terrorism is to address its root causes. This means providing aid to the desperate, impoverished people who are most likely to resort to terrorism. While it is hard to make sure that financial aid gets to the people, it is still something that needs to be done. This deal will also keep the Iranian government from funding terrorist groups. The reason many small, marginalized countries support terrorism is because they feel that it is the only way to be heard by larger nations. If Iran is given a chance to join the world community, which it has with this agreement, it will not feel the need to resort to such extreme measures.

The last and easiest to disprove criticism against the deal is that it will be easy for Iran to cheat. It just simply is not. Radioactive materials are very hard to hide, and nearly impossible to cover traces of. Unless all inspection teams forget to bring even a basic Geiger counter, it will be impossible to cheat. I don’t even need to go into how easy it would be to know if any weapons were tested.


This concludes my first essay. I apologize if the quality is not the best, but I wrote it between 1:00 and 2:30 am, so it is not my best work. The next essay I plan on releasing is one I have already written about the link between the poverty and education crises within America. Please let me know if you would like me to post it.

I know some Iranians....and have learned a bit of Persian-Farse......so I know that Iranians aren't all religious nutcases.....but then again most of the Iranians that I know are in their 50s and the youth of their country don't know what it's like not to live under the thumb of a Theocracy.

Iran is the greatest funder of terrorism in the world. The only reason Obama wanted to work out a deal with them was to use it to pad his legacy or to help them fund more terrorism.

I think it's both.

Obama cannot be honest with us about anything....so history has taught me that nothing he is involved in is for the better good. This is beyond dispute. He is an evil man...and so are the folks that got him where he is today.

Bad trees never bear good fruit.

you have to think more deeply about the issue. the hangup many people have is that Iran funds terrorism, but in my essay I clearly explain why this deal will end that.

I'm thinking deeply.

Nobody makes a bargain with somebody that is screaming "Death To America" if you're an American.

That's too simple for the young one. You don't play poker with a cheat and a Liar.

It is also the rulers over there's culture.................You can't think on our terms of what is normal to us.

The solution has always been simple. Eliminate the threat................It always works...........When they challenged us back in the day...............IT WORKED..............They REGRETTED it when they engaged................a they backed the hell down............

Peace thru Strength works..........and sometimes you have to get brutal to make them understand it.

 

[eagle1462010]

for those interested in REALITY------contrary to the claims by islamo Nazi shit---that the CIA (make that the ""zonist controlled cia""") enacted a coup on the Iranian leadership and IMPOSED a ZIONIST CONTROLED SHAH----the reality is that the CIA simply agreed with Iranians in IRAN-----that a coup was a good idea and did provide some minimal support. For the rest find an Iranian----there are lots and lots in the USA who long for the GOOD OLD SHAH DAYS as opposed to the stink which now exists in Iran at the hands of SHITTY AYATOILETS. The shitty ayatoilets not only murder Iranians----they murder thruout the world----via their murder militias HEZBOLLAH of which Freddie is very proud-------the streets of SANAA'A Yemen have been red with blood for years thanks to people like Freddie who support the actions of Hezbollah and Iranian backed HOUTHIS in Yemen. ------for clarification-----find a nice Yemeni grocer in the USA and discuss the situation "back home" ---of course that person would have to trust you before he discussed this issue.

Your post is a ridiculous fairytale that you made up.^
In July of 1952 Mossadegh resigned as PM over a dispute with the Shah. The next day the people of Iran took to the streets chanting "give me death, or give me Mossadegh". After 3 days Mossadegh rescinded his resignation and the Shah had to reappoint him as PM.
The evidence is not even in dispute that the CIA orchestrated the entire coup not merely provide some minimal support.

the "FACT" that the Nazi murder of 6 million jews happned----happens to be a lie is not in dispute in Nazi headquarters either----I have my information from Iranians----mostly muslim Iranians and a few jewish Iranians who fled the filth of the Ayatoilets. The FACT that Turkish muslims murders some 2 million Armenians 1915 -- 1917 is in dispute----Turkish muslims deny it -----my mom told me about it in the 1950s when I was a child----as an adult, I sat at the beside of a survivor------dying of heart failure. As an adult ---I treated many victims of that which your fellow islamo Nazi dogs claim "NEVER HAPPENED"

How is any of that relevant to your denial of the CIA's overthrow of a popular, elected official of Iran in 1953?

It was a coup............the Shah had been in power for 20 years prior...........he left and the coup was put down. He ruled for 40 years there and that was a bump in the middle of his reign..............That doesn't make him a nice guy.............it's just the way it was............and we didn't want to deal with a Rouge new leadership..............and so the new Gov't that overthrew the old Gov't got Overthrown.............

And for that, it bought another 2 decades of Stability to the region..............Since 1979 this place has been anything but stable in the current POWER STRUGGLE for Regional Dominance...........With factions from all sides in a Death Match for control.

Removing sanctions will force countries like Saudi Arabia to adapt to the coming attractions.............A Jurassic Park of Radical Ideologies and old leadership eventually fighting to gain control of the park............as the Park gets destroyed...........Saudi Arabia is already engaged in combat against elements of Iran's proxy brigades in Yemen.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Tehon]

It was a coup............the Shah had been in power for 20 years prior...........he left and the coup was put down. He ruled for 40 years there and that was a bump in the middle of his reign..............That doesn't make him a nice guy.............it's just the way it was............and we didn't want to deal with a Rouge new leadership..............and so the new Gov't that overthrew the old Gov't got Overthrown.............

 

[eagle1462010]

What did it say at the start - "those fighting for a free and democratic Iran".
I'm amazed you have the nerve to post that when America ousted the free and democratic government that led to the extremist's government rise to power.

Not a chance................in 53 the Shah had been in power for 20 years..............

This is how a Real President dealt with Iran.................and the hostages..........before he was elected he stated that if the hostages were not released he would attack Iran without notice..................It WAS OR ELSE DEAL.............NO NEGOTIATION.......NONE........

He believed in Peace thru Strength................see here.


His threats were heard................by Iran..........they released them 30 minutes after he was sworn in....................They knew there was a President that wasn't making idle threats................

Peace thru Strength...................or negotiation at the point of the barrel of a gun works.................

Half hour after sworn in............


You don't go in a bargain like Carter or Obama................you give them a OR ELSE deal..............RELEASE OUR PEOPLE..............destroy the Nuke sites or we will DESTROY THEM FOR YOU.................and this shit would be over or the sites would be a pile of rubble.............

End discussion it's over.

 

[eagle1462010]

It was a coup............the Shah had been in power for 20 years prior...........he left and the coup was put down. He ruled for 40 years there and that was a bump in the middle of his reign..............That doesn't make him a nice guy.............it's just the way it was............and we didn't want to deal with a Rouge new leadership..............and so the new Gov't that overthrew the old Gov't got Overthrown.............

CIA-assisted coup overthrows government of Iran - Aug 19 1953 - HISTORY.com

Mosaddeq came to prominence in Iran in 1951 when he was appointed premier. A fierce nationalist, Mosaddeq immediately began attacks on British oil companies operating in his country, calling for expropriation and nationalization of the oil fields. His actions brought him into conflict with the pro-Western elites of Iran and the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi. Indeed, the Shah dismissed Mossadeq in mid-1952, but massive public riots condemning the action forced the Shah to reinstate Mossadeq a short time later. U.S. officials watched events in Iran with growing suspicion. British intelligence sources, working with the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), came to the conclusion that Mossadeq had communist leanings and would move Iran into the Soviet orbit if allowed to stay in power. Working with Shah, the CIA and British intelligence began to engineer a plot to overthrow Mossadeq. The Iranian premier, however, got wind of the plan and called his supporters to take to the streets in protest. At this point, the Shah left the country for “medical reasons.” While British intelligence backed away from the debacle, the CIA continued its covert operations in Iran. Working with pro-Shah forces and, most importantly, the Iranian military, the CIA cajoled, threatened, and bribed its way into influence and helped to organize another coup attempt against Mossadeq. On August 19, 1953, the military, backed by street protests organized and financed by the CIA, overthrew Mossadeq. The Shah quickly returned to take power and, as thanks for the American help, signed over 40 percent of Iran’s oil fields to U.S. companies.


He was appointed by the Shah when the shit hit the fan and left the country...............then the Shah fired him and the people rioted..........so he put him back into power..............and then they took him out..........Democracy my ass...............Same shit happened in 1979...............PERHAPS we should have done the same thing we did in 1953 and put the new leadership down again...............

It wasn't a freaking Democracy in 1953.......it was another Revolution since 1951. and the man appointed was SELECTED BY THE SHAH for temp measures hoping to cool the situation down.

 

[Tehon]

It was a coup............the Shah had been in power for 20 years prior...........he left and the coup was put down. He ruled for 40 years there and that was a bump in the middle of his reign..............That doesn't make him a nice guy.............it's just the way it was............and we didn't want to deal with a Rouge new leadership..............and so the new Gov't that overthrew the old Gov't got Overthrown.............

CIA-assisted coup overthrows government of Iran - Aug 19 1953 - HISTORY.com

Mosaddeq came to prominence in Iran in 1951 when he was appointed premier. A fierce nationalist, Mosaddeq immediately began attacks on British oil companies operating in his country, calling for expropriation and nationalization of the oil fields. His actions brought him into conflict with the pro-Western elites of Iran and the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi. Indeed, the Shah dismissed Mossadeq in mid-1952, but massive public riots condemning the action forced the Shah to reinstate Mossadeq a short time later. U.S. officials watched events in Iran with growing suspicion. British intelligence sources, working with the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), came to the conclusion that Mossadeq had communist leanings and would move Iran into the Soviet orbit if allowed to stay in power. Working with Shah, the CIA and British intelligence began to engineer a plot to overthrow Mossadeq. The Iranian premier, however, got wind of the plan and called his supporters to take to the streets in protest. At this point, the Shah left the country for “medical reasons.” While British intelligence backed away from the debacle, the CIA continued its covert operations in Iran. Working with pro-Shah forces and, most importantly, the Iranian military, the CIA cajoled, threatened, and bribed its way into influence and helped to organize another coup attempt against Mossadeq. On August 19, 1953, the military, backed by street protests organized and financed by the CIA, overthrew Mossadeq. The Shah quickly returned to take power and, as thanks for the American help, signed over 40 percent of Iran’s oil fields to U.S. companies.


He was appointed by the Shah when the shit hit the fan and left the country...............then the Shah fired him and the people rioted..........so he put him back into power..............and then they took him out..........Democracy my ass...............Same shit happened in 1979...............PERHAPS we should have done the same thing we did in 1953 and put the new leadership down again...............

It wasn't a freaking Democracy in 1953.......it was another Revolution since 1951. and the man appointed was SELECTED BY THE SHAH for temp measures hoping to cool the situation down.

What you fail to understand is the right of Iranians, and all people of all Nations, to self determination. The US has no right to determine the political outcomes of foreign countries...... period. Doing so is the definition of terrorism as described in our laws.

(1)the term “international terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum;

18 U.S. Code 2331 - Definitions US Law LII Legal Information Institute

Aside from that Mossadegh was first elcted to PM by the Iranian Parliament before he was appointed by the Shaw as was customary of their laws.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Iran Nuclear Negotiations U.S. Concession After U.S. Concession

So what are the metrics to judge the outcome—to judge whether this is a good or bad deal. I think they are straightforward. Here are five:

1. Does the agreement deny Iran a nuclear weapons capability—the longstanding declared goal of the United States and the international community?
2. Does the agreement, once the constraints expire, prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon in a short amount of time?
3. Does the agreement extend the breakout time in a meaningful way?
4. Is the agreement effectively verifiable?
5. And is there a meaningful phased relief of sanctions and are there guaranteed snap-back provisions?

The answer to each of these questions is NO—a reality that is becoming apparent across party lines.

So how did we get into this mess? The answer is clear:

• The Administration has violated every rule of good negotiating practice—the basic tenets of negotiating 101.
• Instead of increasing pressure on Tehran through more sanctions, they relieved sanctions to, in their words, keep Iran at the table, but it was these very sanctions that brought them to the table.
• Instead of making clear to Iran that Iran needed an agreement more than we, the Administration has demonstrated just the opposite: that it is desperate for an agreement—a desperation that Iran’s negotiators have exploited to the fullest, as seen today with Iran’s last minute insistence on ending the arms embargo.
• Instead of insisting that a deadline actually means a deadline, the Administration has allowed Iran to squeeze further concessions each time the latest deadline approaches and passes.
• Most important, instead of holding the line on those key issues that would determine whether the agreement is good or bad—whether it advances our security interests or undermines them—the Administration made concession after concession.

Standard RED LINE IN THE SAND DEAL with Obama..............Miss a deadline MOVE THE LINE............he got played like a chump and got us a shitty deal that didn't even get our people back...........at least the chump for 160 BILLION could of released 4 Americans held in Iran now.............he didn't even have the back bone to say.........OUR PEOPLE BACK OR NO DEAL PERIOD......................

They are still held................
Iran will still keep stirring shit up in the neighborhood......
They will still move towards the bomb.......
and they will have more money to do it with...........

Obama got played.........so america got played..............with a shitty deal.

 

[PhilosphyBeforeParty]

I am posting my first thread for the same reason I joined this online forum. I am not a politician, nor do I know any, and I am too young for anyone who does not personally know me to give any thought to my arguments. For this reason, I turned to the internet, where everyone’s view will be given consideration (at least by the intelligent, rational people). I believe that the best way for me to help the world before I reach what I like to call “the age of perceived credibility” is for me to clearly and fully explain issues which are often oversimplified and manipulated by bureaucrats in an attempt not necessarily to win people over to my side (although when I am confident that I have a good answer/solution concerning to an issue, that will be the goal), but to get people to think more deeply about world issues rather than blindly accepting what the party they have aligned themselves with says. The first issue I would like to discuss is the new agreement made between the US and Iran, as it has been a topic of much debate for quite some time, and will most certainly be an important issue in the upcoming 2016 presidential election. Please let me know what you think in the comments. I am open minded and willing to consider any and all points of view, no matter how ridiculous they seem superficially. Now enough exposition, and on to the essay.


This new deal has been getting quite a bit of backlash from the right, most notably the republicans in the US and Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Most critics of the agreement say that this deal only gives Iran more money to advance its nuclear program, fund terrorist groups, and stir up trouble in the Middle East. Assuming that this is what will happen, the deal is obviously counterproductive. But alas, there lies the quintessential dilemma. I do not believe that this is the case: these claims are made by people who look at the deal and ask themselves: “does this hurt Iran more than it helps it?” This not the way we should be thinking. This results from the “us vs. them” mentality that has been cultivated in our society by the two party system, which I will explain my opinions on in a future essay. This deal was not about gaining an advantage over Iran, but about cooperating with it and benefitting both countries and the world as a result.

This agreement with Iran will not, as many people claim to believe, cause Iran to put more money into their nuclear program and fund more terrorist groups. If the Iranian government and people saw this as “finally escaping from the crushing weight of the westerner’s sanctions”, this would surely be the case. But Iran is not a country of radical religious zealots, but rather a country of people eager and ready to join the modern world who see it instead as “a new chance to cooperate with the west”. The only people who oversimplify the agreement and say that all it does is give Iran more money to stir up trouble are the far-right republicans who rely on painting everything any democrat does as bad in order to get votes. Their voters are the ignorant people who are willing to believe anything they are told. DO NOT fall into this trap.

This deal will also reduce terrorism. The main cause of terrorism is desperation. People who are impoverished, starving, and oppressed often feel that it is the only option left. Nobody with a steady job, clean house, and healthy family decides to become a suicide bomber. This is another issue often oversimplified by manipulative, bureaucratic politicians. They seem to think that these are evil people, and the only solution is to bomb the heck out of them, when in reality this is the most effective method of making more terrorists. With the exception if ISIS (which is a special case that I may write an essay on in the future), the best and only way to end terrorism is to address its root causes. This means providing aid to the desperate, impoverished people who are most likely to resort to terrorism. While it is hard to make sure that financial aid gets to the people, it is still something that needs to be done. This deal will also keep the Iranian government from funding terrorist groups. The reason many small, marginalized countries support terrorism is because they feel that it is the only way to be heard by larger nations. If Iran is given a chance to join the world community, which it has with this agreement, it will not feel the need to resort to such extreme measures.

The last and easiest to disprove criticism against the deal is that it will be easy for Iran to cheat. It just simply is not. Radioactive materials are very hard to hide, and nearly impossible to cover traces of. Unless all inspection teams forget to bring even a basic Geiger counter, it will be impossible to cheat. I don’t even need to go into how easy it would be to know if any weapons were tested.


This concludes my first essay. I apologize if the quality is not the best, but I wrote it between 1:00 and 2:30 am, so it is not my best work. The next essay I plan on releasing is one I have already written about the link between the poverty and education crises within America. Please let me know if you would like me to post it.

I know some Iranians....and have learned a bit of Persian-Farse......so I know that Iranians aren't all religious nutcases.....but then again most of the Iranians that I know are in their 50s and the youth of their country don't know what it's like not to live under the thumb of a Theocracy.

Iran is the greatest funder of terrorism in the world. The only reason Obama wanted to work out a deal with them was to use it to pad his legacy or to help them fund more terrorism.

I think it's both.

Obama cannot be honest with us about anything....so history has taught me that nothing he is involved in is for the better good. This is beyond dispute. He is an evil man...and so are the folks that got him where he is today.

Bad trees never bear good fruit.

you have to think more deeply about the issue. the hangup many people have is that Iran funds terrorism, but in my essay I clearly explain why this deal will end that.

I'm thinking deeply.

Nobody makes a bargain with somebody that is screaming "Death To America" if you're an American.

That's too simple for the young one. You don't play poker with a cheat and a Liar.

It is also the rulers over there's culture.................You can't think on our terms of what is normal to us.

The solution has always been simple. Eliminate the threat................It always works...........When they challenged us back in the day...............IT WORKED..............They REGRETTED it when they engaged................a they backed the hell down............

Peace thru Strength works..........and sometimes you have to get brutal to make them understand it.

that is the most ignorant, nationalist ting I have ever heard.