CDZ The Iranian nuclear deal: a deeper look

Do you think that the deal was beneficial overall?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 12 66.7%

  • Total voters
    18

PhilosphyBeforeParty

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2015
193
19
46
I am posting my first thread for the same reason I joined this online forum. I am not a politician, nor do I know any, and I am too young for anyone who does not personally know me to give any thought to my arguments. For this reason, I turned to the internet, where everyone’s view will be given consideration (at least by the intelligent, rational people). I believe that the best way for me to help the world before I reach what I like to call “the age of perceived credibility” is for me to clearly and fully explain issues which are often oversimplified and manipulated by bureaucrats in an attempt not necessarily to win people over to my side (although when I am confident that I have a good answer/solution concerning to an issue, that will be the goal), but to get people to think more deeply about world issues rather than blindly accepting what the party they have aligned themselves with says. The first issue I would like to discuss is the new agreement made between the US and Iran, as it has been a topic of much debate for quite some time, and will most certainly be an important issue in the upcoming 2016 presidential election. Please let me know what you think in the comments. I am open minded and willing to consider any and all points of view, no matter how ridiculous they seem superficially. Now enough exposition, and on to the essay.


This new deal has been getting quite a bit of backlash from the right, most notably the republicans in the US and Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Most critics of the agreement say that this deal only gives Iran more money to advance its nuclear program, fund terrorist groups, and stir up trouble in the Middle East. Assuming that this is what will happen, the deal is obviously counterproductive. But alas, there lies the quintessential dilemma. I do not believe that this is the case: these claims are made by people who look at the deal and ask themselves: “does this hurt Iran more than it helps it?” This not the way we should be thinking. This results from the “us vs. them” mentality that has been cultivated in our society by the two party system, which I will explain my opinions on in a future essay. This deal was not about gaining an advantage over Iran, but about cooperating with it and benefitting both countries and the world as a result.

This agreement with Iran will not, as many people claim to believe, cause Iran to put more money into their nuclear program and fund more terrorist groups. If the Iranian government and people saw this as “finally escaping from the crushing weight of the westerner’s sanctions”, this would surely be the case. But Iran is not a country of radical religious zealots, but rather a country of people eager and ready to join the modern world who see it instead as “a new chance to cooperate with the west”. The only people who oversimplify the agreement and say that all it does is give Iran more money to stir up trouble are the far-right republicans who rely on painting everything any democrat does as bad in order to get votes. Their voters are the ignorant people who are willing to believe anything they are told. DO NOT fall into this trap.

This deal will also reduce terrorism. The main cause of terrorism is desperation. People who are impoverished, starving, and oppressed often feel that it is the only option left. Nobody with a steady job, clean house, and healthy family decides to become a suicide bomber. This is another issue often oversimplified by manipulative, bureaucratic politicians. They seem to think that these are evil people, and the only solution is to bomb the heck out of them, when in reality this is the most effective method of making more terrorists. With the exception if ISIS (which is a special case that I may write an essay on in the future), the best and only way to end terrorism is to address its root causes. This means providing aid to the desperate, impoverished people who are most likely to resort to terrorism. While it is hard to make sure that financial aid gets to the people, it is still something that needs to be done. This deal will also keep the Iranian government from funding terrorist groups. The reason many small, marginalized countries support terrorism is because they feel that it is the only way to be heard by larger nations. If Iran is given a chance to join the world community, which it has with this agreement, it will not feel the need to resort to such extreme measures.

The last and easiest to disprove criticism against the deal is that it will be easy for Iran to cheat. It just simply is not. Radioactive materials are very hard to hide, and nearly impossible to cover traces of. Unless all inspection teams forget to bring even a basic Geiger counter, it will be impossible to cheat. I don’t even need to go into how easy it would be to know if any weapons were tested.


This concludes my first essay. I apologize if the quality is not the best, but I wrote it between 1:00 and 2:30 am, so it is not my best work. The next essay I plan on releasing is one I have already written about the link between the poverty and education crises within America. Please let me know if you would like me to post it.
 
Screw Iran. I hope Israel NUKES them.
I have read a few of your other comments and your status and I can see that you are one of those who is content to believe whatever the republicans tell them. I implore you to reconsider your position and be reasonable. it is this kind of ignorant hate that has gotten the world into the situation it is in now. do not blindly hate all Muslims and democrats. do you really think that Nuking Iran will solve everything? please think about issues such as these rather than taking the easy way out by saying "screw them, we're better." I know that if you truly consider all of the facts, you will realize that this deal was beneficial. I hope I have not wasted my time on a hopeless case.
 
Screw Iran. I hope Israel NUKES them.
I have read a few of your other comments and your status and I can see that you are one of those who is content to believe whatever the republicans tell them. I implore you to reconsider your position and be reasonable. it is this kind of ignorant hate that has gotten the world into the situation it is in now. do not blindly hate all Muslims and democrats. do you really think that Nuking Iran will solve everything? please think about issues such as these rather than taking the easy way out by saying "screw them, we're better." I know that if you truly consider all of the facts, you will realize that this deal was beneficial. I hope I have not wasted my time on a hopeless case.

I consider the "democrats" vs "republicans" arguments to be tantamount to
racism
 
I do not believe that this is the case: these claims are made by people who look at the deal and ask themselves: “does this hurt Iran more than it helps it?” This not the way we should be thinking. This results from the “us vs. them” mentality that has been cultivated in our society by the two party system, which I will explain my opinions on in a future essay. This deal was not about gaining an advantage over Iran, but about cooperating with it and benefitting both countries and the world as a result.
It is not a 2 Party system problem. Both parties for nearly 36 years have considered Iran an enemy of Freedom and a State Sponsor of Terror. I'd have to look it up but a letter was sent to Obama warning him to not cut a bad deal with 350 Congressional Signatures to not buckle in negotiations with Iran. Many Dems signed that letter.

367 House Members Send Letter on Iran Nuclear Negotiations to President Obama House Committee on Foreign Affairs - Ed Royce Chairman
http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/sit....gov/files/03.20.15 - Iran Letter - POTUS.pdf

Our problem with Iran began under Carter. When the Shah of Iran was overthrown in the late 70's. The Shah is one of many brutal dictators which is common to the region. As it seems only Dictators can keep any country there stable. They don't do it by playing nice, but this was a Religious take over by Radicals in the Islamic Religion. When they took over they seized our embassy and held our people hostage for over a year. For 444 days our people were held. At the time, people were calling for Carter to go to War with Iran. I was one of them back then saying the same. To that point, an attack on our embassy is an attack on our nation and is a declaration of War.

Iran hostage crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Another point to Iran. We had oil shortages here as a result. Gas lines back then, and this is the reason for the Strategic Oil Reserve we have today.

Since Iran was a thorn in our side, Russia assisted Iran as they do today. More so then as we were still active in a Cold War. The Cold War shifted alliances in the region, and we backed Iraq more so for payback to Iran for holding our people in the Iran Iraq War. We also assisted the people in Afghanistan as Russia had it's on Vietnam there trying to dominate the region. To ensuing Wars were engaged. Iran then began to mine the Straits of Harmuse.....in a attempt to strangle the World's Oil supplies.

Operation Earnest Will - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We came into the fray to escort these tankers. I was there. They were throwing mines into water off the tankers and using small boats and frigates to directly challenge our mission. Not to mention Iranian jets on attack vectors to our ships. I went to GQ many a time with missiles on the rail ready to shoot down these aircraft. This eventually led to a FIGHT in which we sunk their ships, and destroyed their oil rigs.

At the same time Iraq hit the Stark.
USS Stark incident - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Roberts hits a mine.
USS Samuel B. Roberts FFG-58 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Our response.
Operation Praying Mantis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

And direct military action against Iranian assets.
600px-OperationPrayingMantis-IS_Alvand.jpg

The Iranian frigate Sahand attacked by aircraft of U.S. Navy Carrier Air Wing 11 after the guided missile frigateUSS Samuel B. Roberts struck an Iranian mine

During the same time frame.........

1983 Beirut barracks bombing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
While Iran denied involvement..........of course........they helped KILL OUR MARINES in Lebanon. As they support the Hezballah there and always have in actions against Israel.

To be continued...........this is just laying the ground for the History of the problem with Iran........which is necessary to understand WHO WE ARE DEALING WITH..............

This is how it began...........
 
I do not believe that this is the case: these claims are made by people who look at the deal and ask themselves: “does this hurt Iran more than it helps it?” This not the way we should be thinking. This results from the “us vs. them” mentality that has been cultivated in our society by the two party system, which I will explain my opinions on in a future essay. This deal was not about gaining an advantage over Iran, but about cooperating with it and benefitting both countries and the world as a result.
It is not a 2 Party system problem. Both parties for nearly 36 years have considered Iran an enemy of Freedom and a State Sponsor of Terror. I'd have to look it up but a letter was sent to Obama warning him to not cut a bad deal with 350 Congressional Signatures to not buckle in negotiations with Iran. Many Dems signed that letter.

367 House Members Send Letter on Iran Nuclear Negotiations to President Obama House Committee on Foreign Affairs - Ed Royce Chairman
http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/sites/republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/files/03.20.15 - Iran Letter - POTUS.pdf

Our problem with Iran began under Carter. When the Shah of Iran was overthrown in the late 70's. The Shah is one of many brutal dictators which is common to the region. As it seems only Dictators can keep any country there stable. They don't do it by playing nice, but this was a Religious take over by Radicals in the Islamic Religion. When they took over they seized our embassy and held our people hostage for over a year. For 444 days our people were held. At the time, people were calling for Carter to go to War with Iran. I was one of them back then saying the same. To that point, an attack on our embassy is an attack on our nation and is a declaration of War.

Iran hostage crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Another point to Iran. We had oil shortages here as a result. Gas lines back then, and this is the reason for the Strategic Oil Reserve we have today.

Since Iran was a thorn in our side, Russia assisted Iran as they do today. More so then as we were still active in a Cold War. The Cold War shifted alliances in the region, and we backed Iraq more so for payback to Iran for holding our people in the Iran Iraq War. We also assisted the people in Afghanistan as Russia had it's on Vietnam there trying to dominate the region. To ensuing Wars were engaged. Iran then began to mine the Straits of Harmuse.....in a attempt to strangle the World's Oil supplies.

Operation Earnest Will - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We came into the fray to escort these tankers. I was there. They were throwing mines into water off the tankers and using small boats and frigates to directly challenge our mission. Not to mention Iranian jets on attack vectors to our ships. I went to GQ many a time with missiles on the rail ready to shoot down these aircraft. This eventually led to a FIGHT in which we sunk their ships, and destroyed their oil rigs.

At the same time Iraq hit the Stark.
USS Stark incident - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Roberts hits a mine.
USS Samuel B. Roberts FFG-58 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Our response.
Operation Praying Mantis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

And direct military action against Iranian assets.
600px-OperationPrayingMantis-IS_Alvand.jpg

The Iranian frigate Sahand attacked by aircraft of U.S. Navy Carrier Air Wing 11 after the guided missile frigateUSS Samuel B. Roberts struck an Iranian mine

During the same time frame.........

1983 Beirut barracks bombing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
While Iran denied involvement..........of course........they helped KILL OUR MARINES in Lebanon. As they support the Hezballah there and always have in actions against Israel.

To be continued...........this is just laying the ground for the History of the problem with Iran........which is necessary to understand WHO WE ARE DEALING WITH..............

This is how it began...........
I did not say that the problem with Iran arose directly from the two party system. I was merely pointing out similarities. and the most important thing about this deal is that it is a step towards reverse all those years of hostile relationships. It is better to turn an enemy into an ally than to defeat it.
 
Screw Iran. I hope Israel NUKES them.
I have read a few of your other comments and your status and I can see that you are one of those who is content to believe whatever the republicans tell them. I implore you to reconsider your position and be reasonable. it is this kind of ignorant hate that has gotten the world into the situation it is in now. do not blindly hate all Muslims and democrats. do you really think that Nuking Iran will solve everything? please think about issues such as these rather than taking the easy way out by saying "screw them, we're better." I know that if you truly consider all of the facts, you will realize that this deal was beneficial. I hope I have not wasted my time on a hopeless case.

I consider the "democrats" vs "republicans" arguments to be tantamount to
racism
while most republicans do not openly admit to being racist, most republican policies tend to disenfranchise already underprivileged minorities.
 
Iran as a state sponsor of terror.

Iran and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Since the declaration of the Islamic Republic of Iran in 1979, thegovernment of Iran has been accused by members of the international community of funding, providing equipment, weapons, training and giving sanctuary to terrorists.[1]

The United States State Department describes Iran as an “active state sponsor of terrorism.”[2] US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice elaborated stating, "Iran has been the country that has been in many ways a kind of central banker for terrorism in important regions like Lebanon through Hezbollah in the Middle East, in the Palestinian Territories, and we have deep concerns about what Iran is doing in the south of Iraq."[1]

Hezbollah
440px-REAGANSCASKETS.jpg

President Ronald Reagan and his wife Nancy show respect to the victims of 1983 barracks bombing.

The attacks, attributed to Hezbollah, have included:



 
I do not believe that this is the case: these claims are made by people who look at the deal and ask themselves: “does this hurt Iran more than it helps it?” This not the way we should be thinking. This results from the “us vs. them” mentality that has been cultivated in our society by the two party system, which I will explain my opinions on in a future essay. This deal was not about gaining an advantage over Iran, but about cooperating with it and benefitting both countries and the world as a result.
It is not a 2 Party system problem. Both parties for nearly 36 years have considered Iran an enemy of Freedom and a State Sponsor of Terror. I'd have to look it up but a letter was sent to Obama warning him to not cut a bad deal with 350 Congressional Signatures to not buckle in negotiations with Iran. Many Dems signed that letter.

367 House Members Send Letter on Iran Nuclear Negotiations to President Obama House Committee on Foreign Affairs - Ed Royce Chairman
http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/sites/republicans.foreignaffairs.house.gov/files/03.20.15 - Iran Letter - POTUS.pdf

Our problem with Iran began under Carter. When the Shah of Iran was overthrown in the late 70's. The Shah is one of many brutal dictators which is common to the region. As it seems only Dictators can keep any country there stable. They don't do it by playing nice, but this was a Religious take over by Radicals in the Islamic Religion. When they took over they seized our embassy and held our people hostage for over a year. For 444 days our people were held. At the time, people were calling for Carter to go to War with Iran. I was one of them back then saying the same. To that point, an attack on our embassy is an attack on our nation and is a declaration of War.

Iran hostage crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Another point to Iran. We had oil shortages here as a result. Gas lines back then, and this is the reason for the Strategic Oil Reserve we have today.

Since Iran was a thorn in our side, Russia assisted Iran as they do today. More so then as we were still active in a Cold War. The Cold War shifted alliances in the region, and we backed Iraq more so for payback to Iran for holding our people in the Iran Iraq War. We also assisted the people in Afghanistan as Russia had it's on Vietnam there trying to dominate the region. To ensuing Wars were engaged. Iran then began to mine the Straits of Harmuse.....in a attempt to strangle the World's Oil supplies.

Operation Earnest Will - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We came into the fray to escort these tankers. I was there. They were throwing mines into water off the tankers and using small boats and frigates to directly challenge our mission. Not to mention Iranian jets on attack vectors to our ships. I went to GQ many a time with missiles on the rail ready to shoot down these aircraft. This eventually led to a FIGHT in which we sunk their ships, and destroyed their oil rigs.

At the same time Iraq hit the Stark.
USS Stark incident - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The Roberts hits a mine.
USS Samuel B. Roberts FFG-58 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Our response.
Operation Praying Mantis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

And direct military action against Iranian assets.
600px-OperationPrayingMantis-IS_Alvand.jpg

The Iranian frigate Sahand attacked by aircraft of U.S. Navy Carrier Air Wing 11 after the guided missile frigateUSS Samuel B. Roberts struck an Iranian mine

During the same time frame.........

1983 Beirut barracks bombing - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
While Iran denied involvement..........of course........they helped KILL OUR MARINES in Lebanon. As they support the Hezballah there and always have in actions against Israel.

To be continued...........this is just laying the ground for the History of the problem with Iran........which is necessary to understand WHO WE ARE DEALING WITH..............

This is how it began...........
I did not say that the problem with Iran arose directly from the two party system. I was merely pointing out similarities. and the most important thing about this deal is that it is a step towards reverse all those years of hostile relationships. It is better to turn an enemy into an ally than to defeat it.
My purpose is clear. To show the history of a Rouge country and a history of why they are not to be trusted. Under the current leadership of Iran, they will NEVER BE AN ALLY. EVER.

They have a history of killing our people. Taking them hostage. Supporting Terror around the globe. Killing our people in Afghanistan through proxy support of the Taliban even now. Breaking UN Resolution after UN resolution. In short. They have a history of LIES and DECEIT to the World. Therefore, people like me don't think it's a good idea to make deals with a KNOWN LIAR.................

My internet screwed up and deleted have my other history lesson. To avoid the history lesson, do you at least agree that they have been causing Problems in the region and in the world for over 3 decades?

Second question. Do you agree that they are a State Sponsor of Terror?

3. If you were cutting the deal..........would you have DEMANDED the return of 4 Americans currently held by Iran.

4. Why do they need Nuclear Power? They sit on a sea of oil and can easily produce power via other means. There is no critical need to power their electrical grid with Nuclear Power, and I would remind you that we haven't built Nuclear Power plants here in decades. So why is it so important for them to have it there as they say.

5. Where in the deal is there a purpose to stop supporting elements like the Taliban, and Hezballah?

6. Why was it so important for Russia to have arms sales in part of the agreement? Specifically, the selling of cruise missiles to Iran at a later date that could be used against our Navy and other Navies Operating in the region. My point..........Russia sells them everything already. Russia knows they are a thorn in our side. And Russia does this in the NEW COLD WAR that is going on now.

7. Where in the agreement is the clause to make Peace with our ally Israel? And to stop supplying weapons in the region that constantly attack them. Even though ineffective, they are constant attacks to Israel supplied by Iran. Will they recognize Israel's right to exist?

8. They are going to release up to 150 Billion dollars from removal of Sanctions. This will not go to the people there. It will be used by the Gov't to increase it's tech and weapons technology. It will also allow Western companies to provide possible parts that could be used to expand it's ability to make the bomb.

Enough questions for now...............Thank you.
 
How the IED changed the U.S. military

Somewhere between more than half to two-thirds of Americans killed or wounded in combat in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been victims of IEDs planted in the ground, in vehicles or buildings, or worn as suicide vests, or loaded into suicide vehicles, according to data from the Pentagon's Joint IED Defeat Organization or JIEDDO.

That's more than 3,100 dead and 33,000 wounded. Among the worst of the casualties are nearly 1,800 U.S. troops who have lost limbs in Iraq and Afghanistan, the vast majority from blasts, according to Army data.

Doctors found that repeated mild brain injuries from blasts — without allowing the brain time to heal — can cause permanent neurological damage, risking later onset of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's or the even more debilitating chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

A RAND Corp. report estimated in 2008 that perhaps 320,000 troops, even at that early date, had suffered concussions or mild brain injuries, mostly from blast exposure. Pentagon officials the next year put the number at 360,000.
Weapons prove Iranian role in Iraq U.S. says - The Washington Post

humvee-ied.jpg

attack.jpg
 
Iranian IED's in both Iraq and Afghanistan have killed and wounded THOUSANDS of our troops................

Caused possible medical conditions for over 300,000 due to IED blasts............

Why do we cut a deal with a country that has been killing our people for the last DECADE in the current Wars?

They have killed our people in the 80's.........
They have killed our people via support of terrorism for 3 and a half DECADES.............
They have been attacking Israel via Proxy forever...........
They refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist...........
They call us both Satan.........
They were CHANTING DEATH TO AMERICA during these meetings...........
They cheered after 9/11............
They sank a MOCK UP of a U.S. carrier in military exercises to send us a message........they bragged Now we can sink an Aircraft Carrier.....


They are OUR ENEMY. I don't agree with cutting deals with the enemy...............giving them more money to use to further this extent..................I want OUR PEOPLE BACK..................I want them to stop supporting Terrorism....................They have been killing for over 3 decades......................



The only deal I would ever cut with Iran is an OR ELSE AGREEMENT.
There history shows they cannot be trusted........
They continue to kill our people.
They continue to hold our people hostage.

When a country doesn't pay a price for involvement in terror and the killing of our people around the globe, there will be NO CHANGE..........................They must pay a price.........................and end their support of Terror...............or getted smacked down...............

I would have already blown the Nuclear SItes to Kingdom Come many many years ago..............and I would have hit their IED bomb making sites as well during the current Wars............when their support were killing our men in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan.......I would remind you that I come from a time when they were throwing out mines in the waters trying to kill us..........and I was there........from a time when they held our people for over a year...............to our Marines dying at their proxy hands in Beirut.................to the American in a wheel chair THROWN INTO THE MED to drown at their proxy terrorist.................

I have reason not to trust them.........and so does the world.
 
Screw Iran. I hope Israel NUKES them.
I have read a few of your other comments and your status and I can see that you are one of those who is content to believe whatever the republicans tell them. I implore you to reconsider your position and be reasonable. it is this kind of ignorant hate that has gotten the world into the situation it is in now. do not blindly hate all Muslims and democrats. do you really think that Nuking Iran will solve everything? please think about issues such as these rather than taking the easy way out by saying "screw them, we're better." I know that if you truly consider all of the facts, you will realize that this deal was beneficial. I hope I have not wasted my time on a hopeless case.

I consider the "democrats" vs "republicans" arguments to be tantamount to
racism
while most republicans do not openly admit to being racist, most republican policies tend to disenfranchise already underprivileged minorities.
That is a party line that is old as the Democratic Party itself.................

You claimed in the original post that you above this stuff in a way................Not so.............In this post you basically called the Republicans Racist............I am used to this type of statement.................even though you didn't bring it up first......................

Most of that type of debate about minorities is Rhetoric and Grandstanding..............securing our borders is not Racist..............It is common sense, which is long gone from our country long ago...............It's about an Oath of office to ENFORCE THESE LAWS..................not pick and choose which ones you will ignore and which ones you will follow......................It is not about going around the law, and Congress to get what you want...................it is about honoring the Constitution........................

It is not about changing the rules of Treaties with Foreign Gov'ts..................which has already been done..................Instead of the NORMAL RATIFICATION of a TREATY with IRAN........................where Congress must approve it or it's dead..............................it is THE OTHER WAY AROUND........................Where CONGRESS MUST HAVE 2/3rd's to DEFEAT IT...................with a Presidential VETO.........................this was done because Obama and the Dems KNEW IT WOULD NEVER PASS...................SO THEY CHANGE THE RULES TO GET THEIR WAY..................

Which is BLATANTLY AGAINST OUR CONSTITUTION.........................................

And it needs to end.
 
Our problem with Iran began under Carter. When the Shah of Iran was overthrown in the late 70's.
No it didn't. Our problem with Iran began in 1953 when we intervened in their government's political processes. When we orchestrated the coup against Mossadegh.

Which BTW was an act of terrorism.
 
Last edited:
Our problem with Iran began under Carter. When the Shah of Iran was overthrown in the late 70's.
No it didn't. Our problem with Iran began in 1953 when we intervened in their government's political processes. When we orchestrated the coup against Mossadegh.

Which BTW was an act of terrorism.
and from 1953 until 1979 were they killing us.............

Were they supporting terror attacks.

Our country, just as other powers over time have inserted influence in regions.........Just as the Ottomans did before WWI............until Britain and France took the area over in WWI.............at a cost of a lot of lives.................

It in no way excuses our agreements with them in current times.......
My posts point out why I don't trust them..............It's that simple..........
 
Our problem with Iran began under Carter. When the Shah of Iran was overthrown in the late 70's.
No it didn't. Our problem with Iran began in 1953 when we intervened in their government's political processes. When we orchestrated the coup against Mossadegh.

Which BTW was an act of terrorism.
and from 1953 until 1979 were they killing us.............

Were they supporting terror attacks.

Our country, just as other powers over time have inserted influence in regions.........Just as the Ottomans did before WWI............until Britain and France took the area over in WWI.............at a cost of a lot of lives.................

It in no way excuses our agreements with them in current times.......
My posts point out why I don't trust them..............It's that simple..........
Yes, I understand the point of your posts. I am just bringing attention to the fact that your timeline is skewed to benefit your positions. You speak as though the US never gave Iranians a reason to overthrow the Shah puppet, who repressed his people using the US trained Savak.
 
"Please let me know if you would like me to post it."

Please do.

As for this topic over which criminal gang is the lesser of two evils the principles must be spelled out in order to understand the problem and the competitive solutions.

If the problem is understood as a criminal take-over of governments, then whatever those criminals do from their positions in government are secondary problems, not primary problems.

As pointed out already the situation in Iran is clearly a criminal "blowback" issue documented well enough in the case of the take-over of Iranian people by criminals in 1953, but that only specifies the principle problem (government take-over by criminals) concerning the current situation in Iran, as to why people in Iran are in the current situation in Iran. If the idea is to understand the principle problem (criminal take-over of government) concerning people in America, then the two party system can be documented as the same simple, principle, moral, problem.

The criminals constitute both parties. Actual moral, productive, kind, generous, thoughtful, people constitute the targets of the criminal two parties.
 
Our problem with Iran began under Carter. When the Shah of Iran was overthrown in the late 70's.
No it didn't. Our problem with Iran began in 1953 when we intervened in their government's political processes. When we orchestrated the coup against Mossadegh.

Which BTW was an act of terrorism.
and from 1953 until 1979 were they killing us.............

Were they supporting terror attacks.

Our country, just as other powers over time have inserted influence in regions.........Just as the Ottomans did before WWI............until Britain and France took the area over in WWI.............at a cost of a lot of lives.................

It in no way excuses our agreements with them in current times.......
My posts point out why I don't trust them..............It's that simple..........
Yes, I understand the point of your posts. I am just bringing attention to the fact that your timeline is skewed to benefit your positions. You speak as though the US never gave Iranians a reason to overthrow the Shah puppet, who repressed his people using the US trained Savak.
I've stated that the Shah was brutal............
I've also stated that there are many brutal dictators in the region over time....
It would seem the only ones capable of holding on to the area are brutal people.
The Ottomans were very brutal.............to the point of Genocide.............

It's part of the nature of the region..................we've cut deals with shitty people over time...........that is true...........and sometimes it bites us in the ass..........

But that doesn't change the history of it................and what is in our best interest today..............
 

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