The Greatest Redistribution of Income in History

[MikeK]

While taxation and regulation, at all levels, have never been higher.

[...]

Again you've been grievously misled.

The income tax rate of upper income levels:

1950 - 91%

1980 - 70%

1985 - 50%

1987 - 38%

2004 - 35%

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

Those are the established rates. But you should know that many of the biggest corporations managed, through the use of loopholes created by skilled tax lawyers, to pay as little as 15%. So don't you think it's time you learned the truth rather than continuing to wander in the dark guided only by lies deposited in your head by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and other millionaire broadcasters who have successfully gotten you to work against your own interests? If you are a member of the American middle class your economic status is in grave danger and those guys are your enemy.

I'm not asking you to take my word for anything. But please start researching the things you've been led to believe by those cunning professional liars. What is happening in America today is comparable to what went on in Germany in the 20s and 30s and led to the rise of the Third Reich.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Anyways, who gets to decide what's "excessive" and what's "necessary" wealth?

I believe there is reasonable wealth and excessive wealth but no such thing as necessary wealth.

I think of wealth as sufficient money to own two fine homes, excellent cars, tuition for several university educations for one's children, top-shelf health insurance and a lifetime of comfortable leisure. How much money do you think that would take? Whatever figure you arrive at is, by your standard, reasonable wealth. Beyond that is excessive wealth.

How much money do you think you would need to lead a reasonably wealthy lifestyle? And please factor the critical elements of greed and gluttony into your formula -- because they are supremely relevant.

 

[Jroc]

While taxation and regulation, at all levels, have never been higher.

[...]

Again you've been grievously misled.

The income tax rate of upper income levels:

1950 - 91%

1980 - 70%

1985 - 50%

1987 - 38%

2004 - 35%

2010 - 15%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/f...y-june2010.pdf

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history-june2010.pdf


Don't you think it's time you learned the truth rather than continuing to wander in the dark guided only by lies deposited in your head by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and other millionaire broadcasters who have successfully gotten you to work against your own interests? If you are a member of the American middle class your economic status is in grave danger and those guys are your enemy.

I'm not asking you to take my word for anything. But please start researching the things you've been led to believe by those cunning professional liars. What is happening in America today is comparable to what went on in Germany in the 20s and 30s and led to the rise of the Third Reich.

You're a lunatic do you actually think anybody ever paid 91% of their income in taxes? there are always so many loop wholes and ways to move money, nobody ever paid that rate .The fact is that our Tax code in mess and needs to be reformed. People that make $250,000yr are not rich anyway. We need a flat tax, fair tax, no deductions we all pay the same rate regardless of our income. The libs are full of crap anyway, always wanting to spend other people’s money. Give you're earnings to the government they surley know how to spend it better then the person who actually earned it. Yeah that'll fix everything

 

[Jroc]

[...]

Anyways, who gets to decide what's "excessive" and what's "necessary" wealth?

I believe there is reasonable wealth and excessive wealth but no such thing as necessary wealth.

I think of wealth as sufficient money to own two fine homes, excellent cars, tuition for several university educations for one's children, top-shelf health insurance and a lifetime of comfortable leisure. How much money do you think that would take? Whatever figure you arrive at is, by your standard, reasonable wealth. Beyond that is excessive wealth.

How much money do you think you would need to lead a reasonably wealthy lifestyle? And please factor the critical elements of greed and gluttony into your formula -- because they are supremely relevant.

Yeah.. I think you should be the head of the commision that decides how much wealth we should have.

 

[Bones]

People that make $250,000yr are not rich anyway.

Are you shittin me? If you're raking in 250,000 dollars a year, you are apart of the Upper Middle Class which is considered wealthy. Not CEO wealthy, however wealthy compared to what most people make.

 

[bucs90]

While taxation and regulation, at all levels, have never been higher.

[...]

Again you've been grievously misled.

The income tax rate of upper income levels:

1950 - 91%

1980 - 70%

1985 - 50%

1987 - 38%

2004 - 35%

2010 - 15%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/f...y-june2010.pdf

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history-june2010.pdf


Don't you think it's time you learned the truth rather than continuing to wander in the dark guided only by lies deposited in your head by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and other millionaire broadcasters who have successfully gotten you to work against your own interests? If you are a member of the American middle class your economic status is in grave danger and those guys are your enemy.

I'm not asking you to take my word for anything. But please start researching the things you've been led to believe by those cunning professional liars. What is happening in America today is comparable to what went on in Germany in the 20s and 30s and led to the rise of the Third Reich.

What is wrong with that chart? Its going in the RIGHT direction!!! That money belongs to THE PEOPLE not the government. It is their money. It is their money. It is their money. Whether it is $10,000 a year, or $10,000,000 a year, the money a person earns is THEIR MONEY!!! What is so hard to grasp about private property for liberals?

Liberals are so in love with redistribution...............for it to be redistributed....it first must be TAKEN. If 25 dogs have 5 toys each, and I want to redistribute the toys, I gotta take the toys away from them first, right?

I will never grasp why liberals feel they have the right to take people's money and property and use the government as basically an avenue of legal robbery to do so, only to give it away to the causes they feel are more appropriate uses of other people's money.

 

[MikeK]

What is wrong with that chart? Its going in the RIGHT direction!!! That money belongs to THE PEOPLE not the government. It is their money. It is their money. It is their money. Whether it is $10,000 a year, or $10,000,000 a year, the money a person earns is THEIR MONEY!!! What is so hard to grasp about private property for liberals?

Do you believe the wealth which has been amassed by America's most affluent individuals and corporations could have been created by them in some other country? Do you think the American truck driver who earns enough money to own a nice home and support his family in health and dignity could do the same in most other countries? The reason such relative successes are possible is the vastness of America's resources, which are not self-sustaining.

Those resources must be supported by taxes. Taxes that support the military which protects them. Taxes which maintain the roads they travel on. Taxes which provide police and fire protection. Etcetera. Then there is the factor of welfare programs, which I'm sure lies at the root of your apparently obsessive objection to taxation.

Something you need to understand is this is America, not Saudi Arabia where the wealthy get to keep all their money and the poor and the sick are left to beg and die in the streets of their slums. And if you choose to live and prosper in America you must pay the price, which is, and should be, levied in proportion to how successful your use of America's resources has been.

If the 91% maximum bracket upsets you, try thinking of it this way: If Bill Gates, Jimmy Buffett, the Koch Brothers and other multi-billionaires were taxed at the 91% rate they would still be billionaires, which they managed to become by exploiting America's resources. The money derived from that level of taxation would be used to repair America's crumbling infrastructure and to upgrade its antiquated energy grid, which would create millions of jobs and many new manufacturing industries.

That's essentially how FDR's New Deal managed to pull America out of its economic pit and bring about the most prosperous four decades in our history. But it appears you prefer to have things the way they are, so can I assume you are among the super-rich? Or are you just one more of Glen Beck's marching gnomes who has been sold on the idea that greed and gluttony are what America is about?

Liberals are so in love with redistribution...............for it to be redistributed....it first must be TAKEN. If 25 dogs have 5 toys each, and I want to redistribute the toys, I gotta take the toys away from them first, right?

That is a rather peculiar analogy, but if you must I'll try to work with it even though it doesn't square with the situation we're discussing -- because all the dogs have five toys each. Try it with 23 dogs who have one toy each and two dogs who have fifty+ each and you'll be closer to the present economic situation in America. Do you think that's an equitable arrangement?

I will never grasp why liberals feel they have the right to take people's money and property and use the government as basically an avenue of legal robbery to do so, only to give it away to the causes they feel are more appropriate uses of other people's money.

If you can't understand it I suggest you stop listening to Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly and the rest of the millionaire propagandists because they apparently have taken control of your thoughts and enlisted you into serving the corporatist agenda. That is unless you happen to be a multi-billionaire, which I kinda doubt.

 

[georgephillip]

Obama ran on nothing more than "hope" and "change"...and you bought it.

Making things different that what they are now is a good thing.

FLUSHING Obama in 2012 seems like a good place to start.

I do hope the DNC puts up a suitable alternative to this self-serving neo-conservative mole.

Alex Cockburn speculated recently he doesn't think Republican elites will tolerate Sarah Palin if she wins her party's nomination in 2012. Michael Bloomberg will be pressed into service, and Obama could face an independent challenge from Russ Feingold.

That would bring us back to 1948 when Truman, Dewey, Wallace and Thurmond squared off for the White House, each with at least a rhetorical chance of success.

I still can't see anyway that anything fundamental changes with our economy by "choosing" between Republican OR Democrat.

If our economy is in worst shape in 2012 than in 2008, maybe others will come to the same conclusion?

 

[georgephillip]

There have been quite a few threads on this subject and many facts thrown out there that support the redistribution of wealth upwards.
The right's responses are tiresome and consistently lack facts, their favorite response "SOCIALISM" screamed in unison. Where are the facts that dispute this redistribution of wealth upwards? I haven't seen one.
As a poster eloquently pointed out, the defenders of the wealth redistribution have been spreading their cheeks and saying thank you. Is that a sign of being weak-minded or what?
Well here's another fact filled link complete with easy-to-read charts and everything.


15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America


The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

Cliché, sure, but it's also more true than at any time since the Gilded Age.

The poor are getting poorer, wages are falling behind inflation, and social mobility is at an all-time low.

Here's 15 Mind-Blowing Charts About Wealth And Inequality In America >
The gap between 1% and everyone else hasn't been this bad since the roaring Twenties

Read more: 15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

Read more: 15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

Maybe some lies are just too BIG to tell?

Here's Les Leopold on Finance socialism and the hedge fund honchos' paradox of productivity:

"But our noble hedge fund managers have a great deal of difficulty accounting for what I call their 'paradox of productivity.'

"You see, there's supposed to be a connection between the productivity of your employees and your profits.

"Apple Corporation, for example, earned about $6 billion in 2009 by expertly engaging its 35,000 employees. (They went on to earn $6 billion in the last quarter of 2010 alone.)

"Along the way they offered us an array of popular new products that people are enjoying and putting to use.

"Appaloosa, the hedge fund, earned about as much as Apple in 2009 by speculating on god knows what.

"But it has fewer than 250 employees and it's not at all clear what these individuals added to our economy -- certainly not the iPad.

"How can 250 workers, no matter how wise and talented, produce as much real worth speculating on stuff as 35,000 Apple employees can make inventing, manufacturing and marketing useful products?

"They can't."

"So hedge funds must be siphoning off wealth from elsewhere, not creating it themselves.

"(If you think I'm wrong, please prove otherwise, because I haven't found a single book or paper about hedge funds, even from insiders or academics, that explains this paradox of productivity.)"

Any takers?

 

[Jroc]

If you can't understand it I suggest you stop listening to Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly and the rest of the millionaire propagandists because they apparently have taken control of your thoughts and enlisted you into serving the corporatist agenda. That is unless you happen to be a multi-billionaire, which I kinda doubt.

There is logic and then there there is liberal socialist propagana. there is freemarket Capitalism that has made this country what it is, then there are central governement planners that want to redistribute wealth. If you think that our tax dollars are only used for the things you mentioned, you're the one whos been brainwashed....

You see Social Security there sir? Those deductions were supposed to be used for our retirement. WERE IS THE MONEY? It's not there, it has been used by these politicians for other spending. So while you put so much faith in the federal government, they are robbing us blind . Get a clue before you preach to anyone on how the federal governement should be taking more of our money.

 

[georgephillip]

While taxation and regulation, at all levels, have never been higher.

[...]

Again you've been grievously misled.

The income tax rate of upper income levels:

1950 - 91%

1980 - 70%

1985 - 50%

1987 - 38%

2004 - 35%

2010 - 15%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/f...y-june2010.pdf

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history-june2010.pdf


Don't you think it's time you learned the truth rather than continuing to wander in the dark guided only by lies deposited in your head by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and other millionaire broadcasters who have successfully gotten you to work against your own interests? If you are a member of the American middle class your economic status is in grave danger and those guys are your enemy.

I'm not asking you to take my word for anything. But please start researching the things you've been led to believe by those cunning professional liars. What is happening in America today is comparable to what went on in Germany in the 20s and 30s and led to the rise of the Third Reich.

You're a lunatic do you actually think anybody ever paid 91% of their income in taxes? there are always so many loop wholes and ways to move money, nobody ever paid that rate .The fact is that our Tax code in mess and needs to be reformed. People that make $250,000yr are not rich anyway. We need a flat tax, fair tax, no deductions we all pay the same rate regardless of our income. The libs are full of crap anyway, always wanting to spend other people’s money. Give you're earnings to the government they surley know how to spend it better then the person who actually earned it. Yeah that'll fix everything

The way the flat tax and VAT are currently structured they will fall exclusively on wage labor and NOT on Finance, Insurance and Real Estate (FIRE sector) incomes.

Michael Hudson:

"The 'solution' to the coming financial crisis in the United States may await the dollar’s plunge as an opportunity for a financial Tonkin Gulf resolution.

"Such a crisis would help catalyze the tax system’s radical change to a European-style 'Steve Forbes' flat tax and VAT sales-excise tax falling almost entirely on employment?

"Big fish will eat little fish.

"More government giveaways will be made to the financial sector in a vain effort to keep bad debts afloat and banks 'solvent.'

As in Ireland and Latvia, public debt will replace private debt, leaving little remaining for Social Security or indeed for much social spending."

Try thinking of it this way.

Government will redistribute income in some manner.

For virtually all of recorded history ALL governments have redistributed wealth in ways designed to socialize cost and privatize profit.

A few get very rich and many suffer.

Why not use government to make society less unequal?

The rich have always used government for the opposite purpose.

 

[daveman]

The Republican base are the ones talking revolution. What is it those dumb fucks plan to do other than "make things different"?

Obama ran on nothing more than "hope" and "change"...and you bought it.

Making things different that what they are now is a good thing.

FLUSHING Obama in 2012 seems like a good place to start.

Your problem is you want to replace him with someone even further left. And that would be disaster for America.

 

[daveman]

My own laziness and poor choices don't change the fact that since the mid 70s it has become impossible for a middle class family to live on one income.

I support my family with one income.

Do you and yours enjoy any economic privileges the majority of Americans don't?

Like what?

 

[daveman]

If you can't understand it I suggest you stop listening to Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly and the rest of the millionaire propagandists because they apparently have taken control of your thoughts and enlisted you into serving the corporatist agenda. That is unless you happen to be a multi-billionaire, which I kinda doubt.

Oh, stop with the class warfare horseshit. You want more than what you've got, get off your ass and get to work. Nobody's keeping you down, and nobody owes you anything.

 

[draper]

The trouble with those people who are on the right and are making average wages is they lack class consciousness, which is why they vote against their interests.

Having class consciousness means that people of lower and middle classes do not fall for stupid tricks that pit them against their own class. They do not make stupid statements like

Oh, stop with the class warfare horseshit. You want more than what you've got, get off your ass and get to work. Nobody's keeping you down, and nobody owes you anything.

People who are one step above whaleshit believe stories about welfare queens and that these are the people bringing America to her knees. The truth is, they are far closer to the welfare queen class wise than they are to the CEO making 500 times the average worker. They don't want to see themselves that way, so they cheer for the CEO.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Next time, try "I want what you have worked so hard for, handed to me for nothing"

It's a lot more to the point.

Thanks.

How hard must one work to earn $150,000,000 in one year (that's one-hundred-and-fifty-million dollars)? Are you truly naive enough to believe that the concept of "work," in the accepted sense of the word, has a place in this equation?

It amazes me how so many who are willing to defend this kind of exploitive, ruinously capitalistic excess either haven't a pot to piss in or any hope of ever earning more than $50k a year -- for which they will need to bust their asses at jobs they hate.

What motivates these right wing dupes? Vain, onanistic hope? They are like an army of marching gnomes who happily carry the lubricant for the giant who eventually will hold them down and screw them in their asses.

I worked for 15 with a guy who built a company from a borrowed $50,000 to the point where making $150,000,000 would be a really off year for him now.

Put down "the Audacity of Hope" get out there and talk to people, meet people. 2/3 of the worlds billionaires started from scratch, go talk with them.

 

[georgephillip]

Obama ran on nothing more than "hope" and "change"...and you bought it.

Making things different that what they are now is a good thing.

FLUSHING Obama in 2012 seems like a good place to start.

Your problem is you want to replace him with someone even further left. And that would be disaster for America.

How about Ron Paul (libertarian version) against Ralph (Green Party) Nader for the 2012 White House with the loser serving as VP?

 

[georgephillip]

I support my family with one income.

Do you and yours enjoy any economic privileges the majority of Americans don't?

Like what?

Subsidized rent or special shopping privileges?

Do you pay Federal Taxes?

I'm guessing your family's medical expenses consume a smaller portion of your budget than most Americans.

 

[Oddball]

The trouble with those people who are on the right and are making average wages is they lack class consciousness, which is why they vote against their interests.

Having class consciousness means that people of lower and middle classes do not fall for stupid tricks that pit them against their own class. They do not make stupid statements like....

Speaking of stupid statements, who the fuck are you to tell anyone what is or isn't in their best interests?

 

[draper]

Speaking of stupid statements, who the fuck are you to tell anyone what is or isn't in their best interests?

It makes more sense to align your interests with your own class vs. The Man. I'm not telling anyone here to do anything, just pointing out stupidity.

You're welcome.