The Government is Making ALL of us CRIMINALS

[JimBowie1958]

Think of local ordinances as if they were CC&Rs by a particularly pernicious HOA. Then they make sense.

I went to law school. I had the class. From the first day, the prof reinforced to us just how pervasive the hand of the government is through administrative regulations. You may like them. If they make perfect sense to you, then you don't understand them nor do you understand what is happening right under your nose.

Are we past the point of no return, or is a complete board wipe the only option now?

I'm leaning toward board wipe.

 

[SteadyMercury]

No. You have proved Bowie's point. His point was that we are constrained by rules and regulations that make every one of us criminals to some degree. Your point was that this man was in violation of zoning and building codes making him a criminal to some degree.
Now you have justified the point that Bowie was making all along.

Nope, Bowie was backing up his point by repeatedly lying about what this man was prosecuted for. My point was having a bible study is not against the law and this man wasn't prosecuted for it. Deep down JimBowie understands that yet he keeps saying it was for having a bible study.

Yet like several others on here JimBowie is too far gone, he's so intent on supporting whatever his latest gripe is that dishonesty just becomes second nature to him, he has somehow compartmentalized that as something normal and okay to do as long as you're in here trying to make a point.

 

[SteadyMercury]

but methinks SM is too stupid to grasp anything not on a Democrat Talking Points hand out.

I'm not a Democrat, but this doesn't surprise me you'd view the world in shades of everything being on either your political side or the other. Forums like this really do open one's eyes as to how sad people some have become in their ability to perceive the world around them only in ideological spectrum.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No. You have proved Bowie's point. His point was that we are constrained by rules and regulations that make every one of us criminals to some degree. Your point was that this man was in violation of zoning and building codes making him a criminal to some degree.
Now you have justified the point that Bowie was making all along.

Nope, Bowie was backing up his point by repeatedly lying about what this man was prosecuted for. My point was having a bible study is not against the law and this man wasn't prosecuted for it. Deep down JimBowie understands that yet he keeps saying it was for having a bible study.

Yet like several others on here JimBowie is too far gone, he's so intent on supporting whatever his latest gripe is that dishonesty just becomes second nature to him, he has somehow compartmentalized that as something normal and okay to do as long as you're in here trying to make a point.

I understand that the guy broke some retarded law, ass hat, THAT IS MY POINT.

Laws are being made so convoluted and restrictive that we cannot avoid being in violation of some law or other. In the past the government apparachiks would cut people some slack if what they were doing was considered a good thing to do, but not any more.

Now the noose is being tightened and fucktards like you just keep on licking those jack boots, like that will spare you when the time comes, fool.

 

[JimBowie1958]

but methinks SM is too stupid to grasp anything not on a Democrat Talking Points hand out.

I'm not a Democrat, but this doesn't surprise me you'd view the world in shades of everything being on either your political side or the other. Forums like this really do open one's eyes as to how sad people some have become in their ability to perceive the world around them only in ideological spectrum.

I never said you were a Democrat, you fucking moron.

Socialists read the Democrat Talking Points too, idiot.

I dream of the day when idiots like you really do leave the country for good, and that day is coming.

You fascists are turning this country into a trash heap, and you will eventually leave it like the libtards are now fleeing Kalifornica in droves.

Then the rest of us who remain here because we love this country, will clean it up and lock the doors tight.

 

[Votto]

It is in this Guantanamo-like facility, surrounded by hardened criminals and subjected to all manners of degradation and hardship that Michael Salman—who was fined more than $12,000 and sentenced to 60 days in jail starting on July 9, 2012, for the so-called “crime” of holding a weekly Bible study in his Phoenix home, allegedly in violation of the city’s building codes—is incarcerated.

Hah I'm from Phoenix and remember this clown.

The dude lied on his paperwork with city hall, saying he was converting a garage into a gameroom for his family. Instead he built a 2000 square foot church in his yard, a room with 145 chairs, no sprinklers, no fire exits. There is no "alleged" violation, city building codes are exactly that.

He was even warned by city officials he could not use it as a church because that required commercial zoning. This is no different that someone in a residential neighborhood deciding they are going to build a grocery store or amusement park in their back yard, when you live in a community you abide by it's laws, if you don't agree with them get them changed or move somewhere else.

The government didn't make this guy a criminal, he did.

My favorite was watching the episode "Mountain Men" on TV. Some guy had built his own house 20 some years ago and did a TV interview. The next thing you know he gets an angry letter from the state saying that he violated all kinds of laws. For example, his kitchen was not properly ventilated........wait for it.........because it had no walls!! It was frigg'in outside with a roof.

The county said that he had so many days to comply to code or they would bull doze his house.

Translation: The county saw that he was making some $$$$ on the program and wanted their cut.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It is in this Guantanamo-like facility, surrounded by hardened criminals and subjected to all manners of degradation and hardship that Michael Salman—who was fined more than $12,000 and sentenced to 60 days in jail starting on July 9, 2012, for the so-called “crime” of holding a weekly Bible study in his Phoenix home, allegedly in violation of the city’s building codes—is incarcerated.

Hah I'm from Phoenix and remember this clown.

The dude lied on his paperwork with city hall, saying he was converting a garage into a gameroom for his family. Instead he built a 2000 square foot church in his yard, a room with 145 chairs, no sprinklers, no fire exits. There is no "alleged" violation, city building codes are exactly that.

He was even warned by city officials he could not use it as a church because that required commercial zoning. This is no different that someone in a residential neighborhood deciding they are going to build a grocery store or amusement park in their back yard, when you live in a community you abide by it's laws, if you don't agree with them get them changed or move somewhere else.

The government didn't make this guy a criminal, he did.

My favorite was watching the episode "Mountain Men" on TV. Some guy had built his own house 20 some years ago and did a TV interview. The next thing you know he gets an angry letter from the state saying that he violated all kinds of laws. For example, his kitchen was not properly ventilated........wait for it.........because it had no walls!! It was frigg'in outside with a roof.

The county said that he had so many days to comply to code or they would bull doze his house.

Translation: The county saw that he was making some $$$$ on the program and wanted their cut.

But according to fascist libtards like Steady Mercury, that's all OK since it was the law, lol.

BTW, the 'build it yourself' movement has the realtors nervous. They fear that people are beginning to realize that they can build their own homes like their grandparents did, but most people don't realize that that now the realtors own the politicians and bureaucrats and will shut them down for what was once legal.

For instance the Amish have lived for centuries building their own homes and barns, but now the government is cracking down on them in some locales.

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/45133367.html

BLACK RIVER FALLS, Wis. (AP) -- An Amish man could be barred from inhabiting his home, after a judge agreed with state officials that he violated a number of building codes when he constructed it.

The case has led to public discussion, sometimes heated, of whether state codes have to be enforced equally for everyone or whether exceptions could be made for Amish who aren't harming anyone with their beliefs.

Six Amish residents in Jackson County were accused of ignoring the codes, with one complaint eventually dropped. Daniel S. Borntreger was the first to be found in violation by a judge.

Borntreger is scheduled to appear in court Jan. 3 to learn his punishment. The town of Franklin man faces fines ranging from $25 to $1,000 for every day he remains in violation.

Jackson County, in west-central Wisconsin, has seen a steady increase in the number of Amish families moving in, lured by the privacy and the land's agricultural potential.

Officials say the majority of newcomers have complied with the state-mandated Uniform Building Code, but one group has refused, citing religious objections to entering into contracts with non-Amish.

The result has been frequent visits from building inspector Rod Stenulson, who said Borntreger's house "doesn't meet code, from footing to roof peak."

 

[Katzndogz]

There was something on the news last night that is very pertinent to this discussion. Carson California is a city of low income working class people, primarily hispanic, Filipino and Pacific Islander. Not rich by any means. The City Council became bored at having nothing to do and very little money to do it with so they passed a law banning chain link fences with 30 days to comply (at their own expense) and daily fines for non compliance. In 30 days, THOUSANDS of residents who had chain link fences around their property would become criminals. Most of them bought their homes with the fence in place and could not afford to have them removed. They liked their fence for children and pets. Never mind, a city ordinance just made them all criminals. There was no grandfather clause under consideration.

The news story had the people, some retirees on a limited income, pleading with the council to not pass such a silly law just because they wanted to pass a law. It passed unanimously.

 

[JimBowie1958]

From last October, this is what a Navy Seal was saying.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDuds14OBiE&feature=player_embedded]America : Ex-Navy SEAL says Government is creating conditions to impose Martial Law (Oct 15, 2013) - YouTube[/ame]

Things have gotten worse since then; wonder what he says now? Wonder what he thinks in his heart of hearts now?

 

[Truthmatters]

just pretending this does not make it so.


when will you on the right learn how to determine what a FACT is?

 

[Rozman]

Jim Cramer the financial guy appeard on Morning Joe faily recently.
He was talking about how it is taking him a year to comply with all the various
agencies within Federal and local jurisdiction in trying to open a business.
The conflict between all the agencies is mind boggling.
He complied with a local government ruling to find he violated a Federal law...
As of the date of the broadcast he was still trying to jump through all the hoops needed to open his
business.

Government gets out of control sometimes.
I understand the need for regulation but then common sense goes out the window.

Radio guy Mark Levin who knows something of the law made a comment once about trying to have a
tree removed from his property.... easy to remove the tree..Not so easy the bureaucracy.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ignorance of the law is never an affirimative defense. If ignorant of law, study it. No that hard finding your local states' legal statutes all of which are available online. Just google: legal statutes yourstate

So you are saying that it is no problem avoiding being ensnared in some absurd law if we can all become amateur lawyers?

Really?

Do you own hydrogen peroxide or any of thousands of different bomb making materials in your home?

Then you can be arrested as a terrorist with bomb making materials, put into a secret prison system and held without any communication with the outside world according to the federal courts and the Obama Regime.

But that's OK because ignorance of the law is no defense?

Can you hear how ridiculous that is?

As a matter of fact I don't. Not an action hero who may have need of such first aid things But I take your point.

In cases where such charges are brought, it's usually because of a sloppy search warrant or other legal inadequacy and having to resort to some kind of criminal charge to keep the ball rolling.

Bombs are just 'rapid production of gases which overwhelm a containment vessel causing catastrophic and rapid release.' Any number of things can become impromptu bombs. But unless when the Men With Guns show up they're on your kitchen table being made into one you have nothing to fear.

Rather than fearing your government out of ignorance, familarize yourself with its laws to rectify that ignorance. Heck, even apply to work for the government. Smart people are always being hired by somebody.

Lol, Delta4, you say that like LEOs have never shot 80 year olds in their beds then lied about it, or killed decrepit old grandmas who answered the door with a metal cane in hand, or been used to 'SWAT' someone as a prank, or have slaughtered a young man in front of his wife and kid because the guy was asleep when they announced themselves then woke him with their assault entry and shot him when he grabbed his gun not knowing who they were.

Seriously, just because the book says that's how you do it doesn't mean that that is how it always gets done, nor how the wicked and corrupt do it when it suits them otherwise.

That is why the police are not supposed to HAVE THIS POWER.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Jim Cramer the financial guy appeard on Morning Joe faily recently.
He was talking about how it is taking him a year to comply with all the various
agencies within Federal and local jurisdiction in trying to open a business.
The conflict between all the agencies is mind boggling.
He complied with a local government ruling to find he violated a Federal law...
As of the date of the broadcast he was still trying to jump through all the hoops needed to open his
business.

Government gets out of control sometimes.
I understand the need for regulation but then common sense goes out the window.

Radio guy Mark Levin who knows something of the law made a comment once about trying to have a
tree removed from his property.... easy to remove the tree..Not so easy the bureaucracy.

Further proof we have TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Another example of why this is bad. Dinesh D'Souza did a popular movie about Obama that was severely critical.

Now, surprise! surprise! he was investigated and found to have violated some ridiculous law that limits donations while Wall Street banks can dump gazzillions into PACs.

Senators Demand FBI Head Answer Questions About Indictment of Dinesh D'Souza | The Weekly Standard

Four United States Senators have a written a letter to FBI director James Comey about the indictment of author and filmmaker Dinesh D'Souza. Senators Charles Grassley, ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, Jeff Sessions, Ted Cruz, and Mike Lee are the four senators, all Republicans, to have signed the letter.

The letter quotes Harvard Law School professor Alan Dershowitz as saying, "I can't help but think that [D'Souza's] politics have something to do with it. ... It smacks of selective prosecution."

And, the senators write, "To dispel this sort of public perception that Mr. D'Souza may have been targeted because of his outspoken criticisms of the President, it is important for the FBI to be transparent regarding the precise origin of this investigation."

The senators provide a dozen direct questions for the FBI director to answer. "To explain the details of these routine reviews and provide context to those who may be skeptical of the origins of this investigation, please provide answers to the following questions regarding FBI's regular review of campaign files:....

 

[editec]

Jim Cramer the financial guy appeard on Morning Joe faily recently.
He was talking about how it is taking him a year to comply with all the various
agencies within Federal and local jurisdiction in trying to open a business.
The conflict between all the agencies is mind boggling.
He complied with a local government ruling to find he violated a Federal law...
As of the date of the broadcast he was still trying to jump through all the hoops needed to open his
business.

Government gets out of control sometimes.
I understand the need for regulation but then common sense goes out the window.

Radio guy Mark Levin who knows something of the law made a comment once about trying to have a
tree removed from his property.... easy to remove the tree..Not so easy the bureaucracy.

Further proof we have TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT.

( A Minor point but one that matters) Cramers' complaints are A further CHARGE of interferring government, not "proof" of it.

Point of fact we DO have too much government control...,and MUCH OF IT is STATE or LOCAL GOVERMENT control, too.

YOu know the smaller governments that all you so call CONS think won't be oppressive?

They will be...hell many of us know they already are.

More Mainers get assassinated by MAINE STATE COPS than FEDERAL officials.

Of course that's changing now that HOMELAND SECURITY border control cops are cruising in the hearthland of Maine and responding to non-border incidents right along with the state and local cops.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Jim Cramer the financial guy appeard on Morning Joe faily recently.
He was talking about how it is taking him a year to comply with all the various
agencies within Federal and local jurisdiction in trying to open a business.
The conflict between all the agencies is mind boggling.
He complied with a local government ruling to find he violated a Federal law...
As of the date of the broadcast he was still trying to jump through all the hoops needed to open his
business.

Government gets out of control sometimes.
I understand the need for regulation but then common sense goes out the window.

Radio guy Mark Levin who knows something of the law made a comment once about trying to have a
tree removed from his property.... easy to remove the tree..Not so easy the bureaucracy.

Further proof we have TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT.

( A Minor point but one that matters) Cramers' complaints are A further CHARGE of interferring government, not "proof" of it.

Point of fact we DO have too much government control...,and MUCH OF IT is STATE or LOCAL GOVERMENT control, too.

YOu know the smaller governments that all you so call CONS think won't be oppressive?

They will be...hell many of us know they already are.

More Mainers get assassinated by MAINE STATE COPS than FEDERAL officials.

Of course that's changing now that HOMELAND SECURITY border control cops are cruising in the hearthland of Maine and responding to non-border incidents right along with the state and local cops.

Your point is valid, but the federal escalation of power is such that it suck up all the discussion/oxygen.

The principle of subsidiarity makes for better government but nothing can make government perfect.