The failure of deregulation

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Good God, Ed. What a prophet you are. You have figured out that:
1. The the workers in china are all doing great, thanks to capitalism? Never mind that nearly all live at bare subsistence levels. Never mind that they have the most regulated industry around

too perfectly stupid and liberal . Before capitalism 60 million slowly starved to death under liberal communism. In 1979 they changed course completely; openly adopting Adam Smith's capitalism. It was in all the papers. What planet have you been on?? They have experienced the greatest economic miracle in human history as a result: 30 years of 10% Republican economic growth every year.

Yes the have regulation but far far far less than when under liberal communism. That is the essential difference between liberal communism and capitalism.


See why we are 100% positive a liberal will be slow, very slow?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The financiers, my friend, are making millions and billions, after pushing this country into a near depression, thanks to deregulation.

dear this is way over your liberal head but the nations great newspapers and economist agree that it was liberal regulation that caused the current liberal depression:

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"






You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success in 1999:
Minorities' Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites' - Los Angeles Times

 

[waltky]

Lotta proposin' goin' on - but not much passin' reform...

Fed proposes stricter capital rules for banks
7 June`12 WASHINGTON (AP) — The Federal Reserve wants U.S. banks to set aside more money to cushion against unexpected losses, a key step in preventing another financial crisis.

The Fed on Thursday proposed rules requiring the nation's largest banks hold at least 6 percent of their assets in capital reserves. That's up from a minimum of 4 percent currently required and in line with international standards. The 2010 financial overhaul mandated regulators raise capital requirements for banks. The banks have lobbied vigorously against the proposals. They say setting aside so much money in reserve could limit what they could lend. The rules are open to comment until September. They will be finalized after that.

Fed Gov. Daniel Tarullo said Wednesday the JPMorgan's $2 billion-plus trading loss is a good example of why the rules are needed. He said JPMorgan was able to weather the loss because it had sufficient reserves to cushion against the loss. "A bank with a strong capital position can absorb losses from unexpected sources," Tarullo said at a hearing of the Senate Banking Committee. "Strong capital buffers ensure that losses are borne by shareholders of the bank, not by taxpayers." The Fed also finalized additional capital requirements for large banks that lend or trade between each other.

Those holding $500 billion or more in assets would have to set aside an additional 10 percent of the value of any lending or trading. Banks in this category include JPMorgan, Citigroup Inc., Bank of America Corp. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Banks have argued that being forced to hold too much capital would hamper their ability to make loans. A leading opponent of the international standards, known as the Basel III accords, was JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon. Dimon pressed Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke in a public forum last year, asking if regulators had gone too far and might be slowing down the economic recovery. Last September, Dimon called the Basel standards "anti-American."

But Karen Shaw Petrou, managing partner of Federal Financial Analytics in Washington, notes that big banks already have increased their capital close to the stricter levels following the results of the stress tests that the Fed conducted on them. For smaller banks, though, the stricter capital requirements will be "a real wake-up call," Petrou said in a research note.

Fed proposes stricter capital rules for banks - Yahoo! News

 

[asterism]

everytime we deregulate the people get fucked

Really? How much do you pay for long distance right now? Are you required to have a land line to use a conventional phone? Are residential fax and data lines more expensive than voice lines? Is caller ID separately billed by law anymore? Have rates gone up or down since the 1970s?

Do you get billed for each cell tower you use? Are there more options than just "peak" and "off peak" billing? Have cell phone rates gone down or up since 1988?

How many broadband Internet choices do you have? I live in Central Florida and I've got 5. I only had 1 in the 1990s. How much does dialup cost now?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

everytime we deregulate the people get fucked

Really? How much do you pay for long distance right now? Are you required to have a land line to use a conventional phone? Are residential fax and data lines more expensive than voice lines? Is caller ID separately billed by law anymore? Have rates gone up or down since the 1970s?

Do you get billed for each cell tower you use? Are there more options than just "peak" and "off peak" billing? Have cell phone rates gone down or up since 1988?

How many broadband Internet choices do you have? I live in Central Florida and I've got 5. I only had 1 in the 1990s. How much does dialup cost now?

or, when China deregulated they went from 60 million slowly starving to death to 60 million who can afford automobiles.

Florida/ Cuba= degegulation/ regulation

 

[Rshermr]

The financiers, my friend, are making millions and billions, after pushing this country into a near depression, thanks to deregulation.

dear this is way over your liberal head but the nations great newspapers and economist agree that it was liberal regulation that caused the current liberal depression:

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"






You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success in 1999:
Minorities' Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites' - Los Angeles Times

Ed, for your info, you do not have my permission to call me dear.
Second, try to limit the quotes. Jesus, if we all did that (cherry picking quotes and doing nothing but copy and paste, you would never get anything read.
Your idea of what caused the housing bust is stunning. As in stunningly ignorant. Few INDEPENDENT economists would agree with you.

Consider, if you are able, that we had no financial system melt down from 1933 when Glass–Steagall was enacted until 2007, after Glass–Steagall was eliminated by Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999.

 

[Rshermr]

The financiers, my friend, are making millions and billions, after pushing this country into a near depression, thanks to deregulation.

dear this is way over your liberal head but the nations great newspapers and economist agree that it was liberal regulation that caused the current liberal depression:

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"






You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success in 1999:
Minorities' Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites' - Los Angeles Times

Ed, for your info, you do not have my permission to call me dear.
Second, try to limit the quotes. Jesus, if we all did that (cherry picking quotes and doing nothing but copy and paste, you would never get anything read.
Your idea of what caused the housing bust is stunning. As in stunningly ignorant. Few INDEPENDENT economists would agree with you.

Consider, if you are able, that we had no financial system melt down from 1933 when Glass–Steagall was enacted until 2007, after Glass–Steagall was eliminated by Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999.

 

[Rshermr]

everytime we deregulate the people get fucked

Really? How much do you pay for long distance right now? Are you required to have a land line to use a conventional phone? Are residential fax and data lines more expensive than voice lines? Is caller ID separately billed by law anymore? Have rates gone up or down since the 1970s?

Do you get billed for each cell tower you use? Are there more options than just "peak" and "off peak" billing? Have cell phone rates gone down or up since 1988?

How many broadband Internet choices do you have? I live in Central Florida and I've got 5. I only had 1 in the 1990s. How much does dialup cost now?

or, when China deregulated they went from 60 million slowly starving to death to 60 million who can afford automobiles.

Florida/ Cuba= degegulation/ regulation

AT&T was broken up and deregulated because it was a monopoly. So, you seem to like it. So do most other than the republicans of the time, who tried to block it in order to protect AT&T.
So, other deregulation:
Airline Industry - I used to fly all the time, now hate flying. Airlines now suck as compared to before deregulation. And costs have gone up, as in way up.

Financial Industry - No problem until Glass–Steagall regulations were eliminated by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, Then, when deregulated, it took under 8 years to get to the Great Recession.

Regulation and deregulation has been a mixed bag, Should not be used for political posturing, each case can stand (or fall) on its own.

And Ed, again, China is still centrally planned. Completely regulated. Just have really cheap labor. And no, ed, china is not a democracy, and is not capitalistic. It is a socialist country with extremely strict government control of its citizens. Funny to see you support it.

 

[Rshermr]

The financiers, my friend, are making millions and billions, after pushing this country into a near depression, thanks to deregulation.

dear this is way over your liberal head but the nations great newspapers and economist agree that it was liberal regulation that caused the current liberal depression:

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"






You may not have heard of the Federal Reserve system but it exists to inflate and deflate the currency supply through the housing market. They inflated too much for too long. This caused what they call a housing bubble. While the bubble was inflating all the big banks and many insurance companies bought bubble mortgages thinking they were sound rather than merely purchased or made possible by newly printed funny money. When the bubble deflated they all lost money on the mortgages. It would be analogous to the government making cars and giving them to GM so everyone could have a car. If GM got them by the ton and for very little money of course they would find a way to move them . This is essentially what the Banks did with the free money. In addition to the Federal Reserve System you had Fanny and Freddie which bought and guaranteed many of the mortgages so no one had to worry about them failing. Then you had CRA, FHA, Federal Home Loan Bank Board( 3% down payment loans) and several others that were designed to get everybody in their own home.

When the states tried to move against predatory lending by national banks they were blocked by the bank's federal regulator, the office of the comptroller of the currency, That empowered money lenders say Lynn Turner.

Just as significantly you had very badly conceived accounting rules that hid the problems from everyone until it was too late. Accounting rules are supposed to do the opposite, not move billions in potential liabilities off the balance sheet onto tiny footnote on the bottom of a page as happened at Citibank, or onto on sentence at the end of a 10-Q report as happened at AIG, or as generally happened with SIVs (structured investment vehicles). Then you had gov't rules from the last crisis, the Enron Crisis, the created mark-to- market accounting rules for this crisis that many believe greatly exacerbated this crisis.

Then you had the problem with the government backed ratings agencies that simply failed to rate the mortgage backed and related securities, properly. Sorry, it had little to do with Bush, but had everything to do with inane attempts by the liberal to regulate the free market!


Warren Buffett: "There are significant limits to what regulation can accomplish. As a dramatic illustration, take two of the biggest accounting disasters in the past ten years: Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of misstatements at both places".

Now, these are two incredibly important institutions. I mean, they accounted for over 40% of the mortgage flow a few years back. Right now I think they're up to 70%. They're quasi-governmental in nature. So the government set up an organization called OFHEO. I'm not sure what all the letters stand for. [Note to Warren: They stand for Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight.] But if you go to OFHEO's website, you'll find that its purpose was to just watch over these two companies. OFHEO had 200 employees. Their job was simply to look at two companies and say, "Are these guys behaving like they're supposed to?" And of course what happened were two of the greatest accounting misstatements in history while these 200 people had their jobs. It's incredible. I mean, two for two!

“Whatever regulatory changes are made, they will pale in comparison to the change already evident in today’s markets,” he said. “Those markets for an indefinite future will be far more restrained than would any currently contemplated new regulatory regime.”-Alan Greenspan

Courtesy A. Smith:FDR created Fannie.
LBJ Privatized Fannie - creating an "enron" like environment:
Greg Mankiw's Blog: Thanks, LBJ

Carter's Community Reinvestment Act - accelerated by Clinton - pushed risky loans:
Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton pushed Fannie into Subprime - the most critical mistake:
Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

Even the NY Times figured this out: Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending - NYTimes.com

Bush and McCain attempted to reform Fannie on 17 occasions
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone Only To Have Dems Ignored His Warnings :: Political News and commentaries :: Hyscience

The risky subprime loans fueled another layer of risk - derivatives
https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2947518

The LA Times reported on Clinton's "subprime" success in 1999:
Minorities' Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites' - Los Angeles Times

Again, ED, no economist that I have read has had the balls to say that regulation had anything to do with the recession of 2008.
And, even marginally intelligent people can tell that it is hard for this to be called a liberal depression, because it was created during the W administration and is a recession, not a depression.

dipshit.

 

[code1211]

everytime we deregulate the people get fucked

There are so many approaches to deregulation that the word is almost meaningless.

The key to this, as it should be in all things that government does, is to allow the free market to work in a way that is the most helpful to the people and requires the smallest involvement of government.

My favorite and most successful building code was employed by the Ancient Greeks.

If the building falls and kills someone, the person who built it must also die. The Parthenon stood intact for thousands of years before modern explosives blew it up.

No complex set of rules. Just a single solid guideline that caused every step in the building process to be reviewed carefully and fully.

 

[code1211]

everytime we deregulate the people get fucked

Regulation? Like how the SEC worked so well for Bernie Madoff.

You mean the failure of the SEC to regulate?

It could be that there are too many regulations. A really good tennis player can return most volleys and if he does, wins most of his games.

If the same tennis player is trying to hit the same type of ball, but there happen to be about a thousand whizzing past his head at the same time, he's bound to miss some.

 

[code1211]

So, in you over exaggerated, uneducated, paranoid delusional little mind, all regulations are identical. Regulation of water and energy utilities, product and food safety, the SEC, OFHEO, and all regulations and regulatory agencies are identical to Red China.

Yes dear, all regulators are equal, they are all people. When people are given monopoly regulatory control over the entire nation they can do what they did in Red China. When power is widely distributed in a capitalist system people instantly stop starving to death and start getting rich. China is the most recent example. Its been in all the papers!! Think about it over and over again!! Ask you Mom to explain it to you. Read Bufett again!! Try to figure out exactly where the argument gets too complex for you and then ask questions on that specific point!!

Got it now???

Good God, Ed. What a prophet you are. You have figured out that:
1. The the workers in china are all doing great, thanks to capitalism? Never mind that nearly all live at bare subsistence levels. Never mind that they have the most regulated industry around. Never mind that they are not a democracy, and not a capitalist economy. They are centrally planned with a huge underpaid workforce that is killing the capitalist ideal of this country, what is left of it, anyway.
2. And regulation kills the capitalist dream??? Glad you think that all corporations have our interests at heart. The financiers, my friend, are making millions and billions, after pushing this country into a near depression, thanks to deregulation. You are probably not aware, but check 1999, the Gramm Leach Bliley Act.
You continue to call people obnoxious names, which is perfectly in character for a totally ignorant political tool. Try reading a bit, maybe a variety of opinions.

I've not got a good handle on what the Chinese system is, but it's noting like anything before.

There is definitely heavy government involvement and heavy central control of many things, but there is also a laisses faire approach to many, many parts of the economy as the government lets the pirates run wild over copyright protections.

Theirs seems to be a very ad hoc, pragmatic economy that takes a little from this pot and a little from that.

I think it represents to us what we have represented to them for centuries. It is something that is foreign to us and not based in our traditions and not understandable.

It seems to be working, though.

 

[alan1]

I love how every few months one of these "deregulation threads" pops up and people wring their hands and gnash their teeth and cry about how deregulation has ruined something.

Here are the most highly regulated industries (in no particular order).
Finance (banking)
Insurance
Medical care
Energy

Amazingly enough, the same people that are sniveling about the need for more government regulation typically call for that increased regulation on,
Finance (banking)
Insurance
Medical care
Energy


Next up, Albert Einstein's definition of insanity.

 

[code1211]

Really? How much do you pay for long distance right now? Are you required to have a land line to use a conventional phone? Are residential fax and data lines more expensive than voice lines? Is caller ID separately billed by law anymore? Have rates gone up or down since the 1970s?

Do you get billed for each cell tower you use? Are there more options than just "peak" and "off peak" billing? Have cell phone rates gone down or up since 1988?

How many broadband Internet choices do you have? I live in Central Florida and I've got 5. I only had 1 in the 1990s. How much does dialup cost now?

or, when China deregulated they went from 60 million slowly starving to death to 60 million who can afford automobiles.

Florida/ Cuba= degegulation/ regulation

AT&T was broken up and deregulated because it was a monopoly. So, you seem to like it. So do most other than the republicans of the time, who tried to block it in order to protect AT&T.
So, other deregulation:
Airline Industry - I used to fly all the time, now hate flying. Airlines now suck as compared to before deregulation. And costs have gone up, as in way up.

Financial Industry - No problem until Glass–Steagall regulations were eliminated by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, Then, when deregulated, it took under 8 years to get to the Great Recession.

Regulation and deregulation has been a mixed bag, Should not be used for political posturing, each case can stand (or fall) on its own.

And Ed, again, China is still centrally planned. Completely regulated. Just have really cheap labor. And no, ed, china is not a democracy, and is not capitalistic. It is a socialist country with extremely strict government control of its citizens. Funny to see you support it.

Airline costs have gone up?

When I was young and airlines were regulated, the elite flew and the great unwashed took the bus.

Now airline terminals are populated by the folks who used to ride the bus.

The Effects of US Airline Deregulation 1970 - 2010

<snip>Result 2 : Air Travel Increased

Again using round figures, there are twice as many flights and three times as many people traveling, compared to the 1970s.

To be specific, in 1978 the US airlines carried 275 million passengers. In 2009, they carried 770 million passengers. In 1969 there were 5.4 million flights, in 2009, there were 10.1 million.

In a lovely circle of positive reinforcement, lower fares encouraged more people to travel, which justified more flights, which allowed for lower fare, and for more people to travel, and so on.

Air travel, once reserved for the wealthy and elite, has been truly democratized and become freely available for all.
<snip>

 

[asterism]

or, when China deregulated they went from 60 million slowly starving to death to 60 million who can afford automobiles.

Florida/ Cuba= degegulation/ regulation

AT&T was broken up and deregulated because it was a monopoly. So, you seem to like it. So do most other than the republicans of the time, who tried to block it in order to protect AT&T.
So, other deregulation:
Airline Industry - I used to fly all the time, now hate flying. Airlines now suck as compared to before deregulation. And costs have gone up, as in way up.

Financial Industry - No problem until Glass–Steagall regulations were eliminated by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, Then, when deregulated, it took under 8 years to get to the Great Recession.

Regulation and deregulation has been a mixed bag, Should not be used for political posturing, each case can stand (or fall) on its own.

And Ed, again, China is still centrally planned. Completely regulated. Just have really cheap labor. And no, ed, china is not a democracy, and is not capitalistic. It is a socialist country with extremely strict government control of its citizens. Funny to see you support it.

Airline costs have gone up?

When I was young and airlines were regulated, the elite flew and the great unwashed took the bus.

Now airline terminals are populated by the folks who used to ride the bus.

The Effects of US Airline Deregulation 1970 - 2010

<snip>Result 2 : Air Travel Increased

Again using round figures, there are twice as many flights and three times as many people traveling, compared to the 1970s.

To be specific, in 1978 the US airlines carried 275 million passengers. In 2009, they carried 770 million passengers. In 1969 there were 5.4 million flights, in 2009, there were 10.1 million.

In a lovely circle of positive reinforcement, lower fares encouraged more people to travel, which justified more flights, which allowed for lower fare, and for more people to travel, and so on.

Air travel, once reserved for the wealthy and elite, has been truly democratized and become freely available for all.
<snip>

Yeah, the notion that air travel is more expensive now is a whopper. It was unheard of for middle class families to fly from up north to Disney, they drove. Now most of them fly. Middle class families from Latin America taking vacations in Florida were rare, now they are so common Kissimmee has spanish only motels.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

everytime we deregulate the people get fucked

like in China where they have had 10% growth every year for 30 years since deregulation!!!

we must tell them to go back to liberal regulation when 60 million slowly starved to death!!!

 

[Rshermr]

AT&T was broken up and deregulated because it was a monopoly. So, you seem to like it. So do most other than the republicans of the time, who tried to block it in order to protect AT&T.
So, other deregulation:
Airline Industry - I used to fly all the time, now hate flying. Airlines now suck as compared to before deregulation. And costs have gone up, as in way up.

Financial Industry - No problem until Glass–Steagall regulations were eliminated by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, Then, when deregulated, it took under 8 years to get to the Great Recession.

Regulation and deregulation has been a mixed bag, Should not be used for political posturing, each case can stand (or fall) on its own.

And Ed, again, China is still centrally planned. Completely regulated. Just have really cheap labor. And no, ed, china is not a democracy, and is not capitalistic. It is a socialist country with extremely strict government control of its citizens. Funny to see you support it.

Airline costs have gone up?

When I was young and airlines were regulated, the elite flew and the great unwashed took the bus.

Now airline terminals are populated by the folks who used to ride the bus.

The Effects of US Airline Deregulation 1970 - 2010

<snip>Result 2 : Air Travel Increased

Again using round figures, there are twice as many flights and three times as many people traveling, compared to the 1970s.

To be specific, in 1978 the US airlines carried 275 million passengers. In 2009, they carried 770 million passengers. In 1969 there were 5.4 million flights, in 2009, there were 10.1 million.

In a lovely circle of positive reinforcement, lower fares encouraged more people to travel, which justified more flights, which allowed for lower fare, and for more people to travel, and so on.

Air travel, once reserved for the wealthy and elite, has been truly democratized and become freely available for all.
<snip>

Yeah, the notion that air travel is more expensive now is a whopper. It was unheard of for middle class families to fly from up north to Disney, they drove. Now most of them fly. Middle class families from Latin America taking vacations in Florida were rare, now they are so common Kissimmee has spanish only motels.

While costs for air travel decreased for a while, if you fly today, you will find fares for everything that you do.e Comparing costs for flying today with costs prior to deregulation is like saying you pay less for a Yugo today than a Volvo then.
If you think differently, and love being stuffed into a plane that has had as many seats in it as possible, getting a pack of peanuts if you are lucky, and, yes indeed, have an experience much like beinug packed into a bus, then so be it.
If you are willing to pay for business class, you may approach similar product.
But my main point has less to do with price and more to do with the flying experience. I flew all the time through 2009, And I know a LOT of folks who still do. Just my opinion that the unregulated product stinks.

 

[asterism]

Airline costs have gone up?

When I was young and airlines were regulated, the elite flew and the great unwashed took the bus.

Now airline terminals are populated by the folks who used to ride the bus.

The Effects of US Airline Deregulation 1970 - 2010

<snip>Result 2 : Air Travel Increased

Again using round figures, there are twice as many flights and three times as many people traveling, compared to the 1970s.

To be specific, in 1978 the US airlines carried 275 million passengers. In 2009, they carried 770 million passengers. In 1969 there were 5.4 million flights, in 2009, there were 10.1 million.

In a lovely circle of positive reinforcement, lower fares encouraged more people to travel, which justified more flights, which allowed for lower fare, and for more people to travel, and so on.

Air travel, once reserved for the wealthy and elite, has been truly democratized and become freely available for all.
<snip>

Yeah, the notion that air travel is more expensive now is a whopper. It was unheard of for middle class families to fly from up north to Disney, they drove. Now most of them fly. Middle class families from Latin America taking vacations in Florida were rare, now they are so common Kissimmee has spanish only motels.

While costs for air travel decreased for a while, if you fly today, you will find fares for everything that you do.e Comparing costs for flying today with costs prior to deregulation is like saying you pay less for a Yugo today than a Volvo then.

No it is not. I have flown regularly for 25 years and I've seen the total costs go down - way down. It doesn't matter if I have to pay $100 to check a bag, the total cost is still much cheaper.

If you think differently, and love being stuffed into a plane that has had as many seats in it as possible, getting a pack of peanuts if you are lucky, and, yes indeed, have an experience much like beinug packed into a bus, then so be it.

It's cost vs. benefit.

If you are willing to pay for business class, you may approach similar product.
But my main point has less to do with price and more to do with the flying experience. I flew all the time through 2009, And I know a LOT of folks who still do. Just my opinion that the unregulated product stinks.

Flying sucked in the 1970s too. There were airline meals, but they sucked big time and were nothing like the food in Business Class these days. The seats were still cramped and the waitresses were still rude.

 

[code1211]

Airline costs have gone up?

When I was young and airlines were regulated, the elite flew and the great unwashed took the bus.

Now airline terminals are populated by the folks who used to ride the bus.

The Effects of US Airline Deregulation 1970 - 2010

<snip>Result 2 : Air Travel Increased

Again using round figures, there are twice as many flights and three times as many people traveling, compared to the 1970s.

To be specific, in 1978 the US airlines carried 275 million passengers. In 2009, they carried 770 million passengers. In 1969 there were 5.4 million flights, in 2009, there were 10.1 million.

In a lovely circle of positive reinforcement, lower fares encouraged more people to travel, which justified more flights, which allowed for lower fare, and for more people to travel, and so on.

Air travel, once reserved for the wealthy and elite, has been truly democratized and become freely available for all.
<snip>

Yeah, the notion that air travel is more expensive now is a whopper. It was unheard of for middle class families to fly from up north to Disney, they drove. Now most of them fly. Middle class families from Latin America taking vacations in Florida were rare, now they are so common Kissimmee has spanish only motels.

While costs for air travel decreased for a while, if you fly today, you will find fares for everything that you do.e Comparing costs for flying today with costs prior to deregulation is like saying you pay less for a Yugo today than a Volvo then.
If you think differently, and love being stuffed into a plane that has had as many seats in it as possible, getting a pack of peanuts if you are lucky, and, yes indeed, have an experience much like beinug packed into a bus, then so be it.
If you are willing to pay for business class, you may approach similar product.
But my main point has less to do with price and more to do with the flying experience. I flew all the time through 2009, And I know a LOT of folks who still do. Just my opinion that the unregulated product stinks.

The value id great compared to the days when the airlines sold tickets based on the way the Stewardeses, sterwadi?, dressed.

The simple measure of the participants tells all you need to know. When usage increases, it's very likely that the value has also increased.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

AT&T was broken up and deregulated because it was a monopoly. So, you seem to like it. So do most other than the republicans of the time, who tried to block it in order to protect AT&T.
So, other deregulation:
Airline Industry - I used to fly all the time, now hate flying. Airlines now suck as compared to before deregulation. And costs have gone up, as in way up.

Financial Industry - No problem until Glass–Steagall regulations were eliminated by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, Then, when deregulated, it took under 8 years to get to the Great Recession.

Regulation and deregulation has been a mixed bag, Should not be used for political posturing, each case can stand (or fall) on its own.

And Ed, again, China is still centrally planned. Completely regulated. Just have really cheap labor. And no, ed, china is not a democracy, and is not capitalistic. It is a socialist country with extremely strict government control of its citizens. Funny to see you support it.

Airline costs have gone up?

When I was young and airlines were regulated, the elite flew and the great unwashed took the bus.

Now airline terminals are populated by the folks who used to ride the bus.

The Effects of US Airline Deregulation 1970 - 2010

<snip>Result 2 : Air Travel Increased

Again using round figures, there are twice as many flights and three times as many people traveling, compared to the 1970s.

To be specific, in 1978 the US airlines carried 275 million passengers. In 2009, they carried 770 million passengers. In 1969 there were 5.4 million flights, in 2009, there were 10.1 million.

In a lovely circle of positive reinforcement, lower fares encouraged more people to travel, which justified more flights, which allowed for lower fare, and for more people to travel, and so on.

Air travel, once reserved for the wealthy and elite, has been truly democratized and become freely available for all.
<snip>

Yeah, the notion that air travel is more expensive now is a whopper. It was unheard of for middle class families to fly from up north to Disney, they drove. Now most of them fly. Middle class families from Latin America taking vacations in Florida were rare, now they are so common Kissimmee has spanish only motels.

GAO: The U.S. airline industry has expanded threefold since deregulation.
Figure 2 shows that the consumption of airline travel as measured by
revenue passenger miles (RPM) grew from 188 billion RPMs in 1978 to 584
billion RPMs in 2005, while airline capacity grew at a similar pace—from
306 billion available seat miles (ASM) in 1978 to 758 billion ASMs in 2005.
Over the same period, revenue passenger enplanements8 increased from
254 million in 1978 to 670 million in 2005.