The Ethics of Capital Punishment

[Sky Dancer]

For those who called me a liar:

Statistics confirm discrimination. Between 1930 and 1990, 4,016 persons were executed in the United States. Of these, 2,129 (or 53 percent) were black. For the crime of murder, 3,343 were executed; 1,693 (or 51 percent) were black.(17) During these years African-Americans were about 12 per cent of the nation's population.
The Case Against the Death Penalty

What percentage of the people in the prison system are black as compared to white?

is it 53% black in the prison population or higher or lower. If it is higher than whites are put to death more than blacks as a percentage of the population, if it is lower then your premise is correct.

I honestly don't know the numbers which is why I presented the question

2.Race & Prison - Data

(2009 - incarceration rates for people of color) "Mass arrests and incarceration of people of color – largely due to drug law violations – have hobbled families and communities by stigmatizing and removing substantial numbers of men and women. In the late 1990s, nearly one in three African-American men aged 20-29 were under criminal justice supervision, while more than two out of five had been incarcerated – substantially more than had been incarcerated a decade earlier and orders of magnitudes higher than that for the general population.

Today, 1 in 15 African-American children and 1 in 42 Latino children have a parent in prison, compared to 1 in 111 white children. In some areas, a large majority of African-American men – 55 percent in Chicago, for example – are labeled felons for life, and, as a result, may be prevented from voting and accessing public housing, student loans and other public assistance."

Source: "Drug Courts Are Not the Answer: Toward a Health-Centered Approach to Drug Use" Drug Policy Alliance (New York, NY: March 2011), p. 9.
Drug Courts Are Not the Answer: Toward a Health-Centered Approach to Drug Use | Drug Policy Alliance

 

[Sky Dancer]

Here's another resource:

http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/Prison Journal - racial disparity.pdf

 

[Tank]

White lives count more than black lives.

In alot of cases thats true.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwtY8wpiCjM]White Woman In Serious Condition After Target shopping cart Dropped on her From 4-Stories up - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Tank]

2.Race & Prison - Data

Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide Trends in the United States: Trends in offending by race table

 

[Sky Dancer]

If a little girls mother is raped and murdered, can we kill the guy so the little girl can sleep better at night?

Would you take a traumatized little girl who has lost her mother in such a horrific way and describe how you were going to kill her mother's murderer?

Killiing the murderer will not make the child heal. It may give her even more nightmares.

Why do you have so much empathy for murderers?

I don't. NONE. Zip. I just oppose the death penalty. LWOP is the appropriate sentence.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Would you take a traumatized little girl who has lost her mother in such a horrific way and describe how you were going to kill her mother's murderer?

Killiing the murderer will not make the child heal. It may give her even more nightmares.

Why do you have so much empathy for murderers?

I don't. NONE. Zip. I just oppose the death penalty. LWOP is the appropriate sentence.

What are your views on abortion Sky?

I'm not trying to do a gotchya, I understand some people are pro-choice and anti-death penalty...i know for me personally I can't reconcile those two positions with each other but if those are your positions (Pro-Choice, Anti-Death penalty) I would be interested in discussing it.

 

[syrenn]

Would you take a traumatized little girl who has lost her mother in such a horrific way and describe how you were going to kill her mother's murderer?

Killiing the murderer will not make the child heal. It may give her even more nightmares.

how do you know it wont heal the child? I know if my mother was murdered i would want that fuck fried!

If he was alive.... I would have nightmares that my mothers killer was still out there .

How do you know it would help a little, traumatized girl to witness or hear about another murder? Yes, I get it that YOU are completely into harsh punishment and killing. I get it that YOU would find killing comforting. I doubt a small child would.

I know something about what helps traumatized children, and it NOT stories of execution.

I know just as much as you do sky. How do you know that what would or would not traumatize a victim? It is singular individual how family members feel about the murders of their loved ones.

You dont have to involve children in such harsh realities of the criminal justice system. You do not have to inform a child that a murder has been executed.

I am sure a comfort to a child would be knowing that the murder of a parent would never ever be able to harm anyone ever again or would never be able to conspire to kill some ever again. The details of the death of a murder can wait till they are older and better understand. Though i am sure the description of a killer being put down is much less graphic, gruesome and gorier the describing a murder scene of a loved one.

And before you go into life without the possibility of parole WILL provide that comfort of the murder never being able to kill or be involved in killing again.... we both know that to be a flat out lie.

 

[syrenn]

People of color and people of low income are more likely to be executed than others in the United States.

“Justice is never advanced in the taking of a human life. Morality is never upheld by a legalized murder.” Coretta Scott King

So lets up the quota of white criminals being put down.... works for me sky. The more criminals off the streets...

I am so happy that you think affirmation action should be applied to execution and that there should be a racial balance on the amount being put to death.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You don't know that informing a child that her mothers murderer has been executed will have therapeutic benefits on a child's recovery.

You just cannot know that.

You are always so certain about what is best for other people. I'm not. I take things on a case by case basis.

Family members vary in their feelings the death penalty. I've shown that your view is not universal.

I know that mine isn't either.

Why don't you tell your own story, Syrenn? Give people some real life context for your harsh view.

 

[syrenn]

People of color and people of low income are more likely to be executed than others in the United States.

“Justice is never advanced in the taking of a human life. Morality is never upheld by a legalized murder.” Coretta Scott King

So, since you also say - in other threads - that prison is inappropriate.... how exactly do you see our justice system working? Give murderers a stern talking to?

LWOP is an appropriate sentence for a murderer.

And even with LWOP.... they are still murdering and comprising to murder innocent people.

Locking them up for life does not stop them from their blood lust of killing others......and the carrying out of such plans.

 

[Sky Dancer]

LWOP keeps them away from society and keeps the community safe. LWOP is a much harsher sentence than the death penalty.

 

[syrenn]

You don't know that informing a child that her mothers murderer has been executed will have therapeutic benefits on a child's recovery.

You just cannot know that.

You are always so certain about what is best for other people. I'm not. I take things on a case by case basis.

Family members vary in their feelings the death penalty. I've shown that your view is not universal.

I know that mine isn't either.

Why don't you tell your own story, Syrenn? Give people some real life context for your harsh view.

And again... you don't know that it wont be therapeutic.

 

[FuelRod]

To me the benefits of Capital Punishment work a couple of different ways.
If done correctly, they can be a deterrent to similar crimes.
Economic. It is ridiculous to fill prisons with people who will never see the light of day again based on their sentence. And no ACLU Attorney and their fuzzy math is going to tell me it is cheaper to keep a human being alive for 40 years than to put a bullet in their head.

 

[syrenn]

LWOP keeps them away from society and keeps the community safe from them.

Bullshit....


It is very well known that gang members put out hits on people from inside of prisons...

It is also well known that prisoners comment murder within prisons.



We can bring up specific cases of prisoners murdering guards if you would like sky.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You judge others for their blood lust, Syrenn. You are unable to deal with your own. You're the one who wants to kill EVERY prisoner. My guess is that no matter how many people are executed you will never be at peace.

I'm sorry for whatever it was that made you feel that way.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You don't know that informing a child that her mothers murderer has been executed will have therapeutic benefits on a child's recovery.

You just cannot know that.

You are always so certain about what is best for other people. I'm not. I take things on a case by case basis.

Family members vary in their feelings the death penalty. I've shown that your view is not universal.

I know that mine isn't either.

Why don't you tell your own story, Syrenn? Give people some real life context for your harsh view.

And again... you don't know that it wont be therapeutic.

I certainly know what is and is not therapeutic for a traumatized child.

Show me some evidence that exposing young children to execution benefits them therapeutically. I don't think you'll find any.


By a conservative estimate, parental homicide affects more than 3,000 U.S. children annually. The Virginia authors cite earlier studies, which posit that bereaved children have to negotiate three tasks:

Accept the reality of what happened.


Find ways to tolerate the pain.


Loosen the affective bonds with the deceased and make the energy available for other relationships
http://www.cwla.org/voice/0512survivors.htm

Note that executing the murderer isn't mentioned.

 

[NoNukes]

To me the benefits of Capital Punishment work a couple of different ways.
If done correctly, they can be a deterrent to similar crimes.
Economic. It is ridiculous to fill prisons with people who will never see the light of day again based on their sentence. And no ACLU Attorney and their fuzzy math is going to tell me it is cheaper to keep a human being alive for 40 years than to put a bullet in their head.

Capital punishment has never been proven as a deterrent. It costs more to execute someone than keep them in prison for life.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Here's another resource:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJL4GI-2J84]Helping Children of Murdered Parents - Sheilah A. Doyle Foundation - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sky Dancer]

The Sheilah A. Doyle Foundation is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization that provides support and assistance to children ages 7-17 whose parent or legal guardian fell victim to murder. Through our partnership with Comfort Zone Camp (Comfort Zone Camp - Bereavement Camp for Children)

I also recommend two books, Grief Like No Other, and I Wasn't Ready to Say Goodbye

 

[Sky Dancer]

No retaliatory death will compensate for the loss of a loved one. A victim's family needs compassion, not a grisly spectacle. Sociological studies of violent crime victims suggest the support of families and friends may help the victim regain a sense of security by reducing the victim's sense of dread and isolation.

Victims' family members likely search for a "psychological resolution" to the pain incurred from losing a family member. The criminal justice system's emphasis on executions and the inevitible media coverage often create an impression that the much sought after resolution will come with the prisoner's execution, but the death penalty keeps the case alive for years, forcing the family to endure numerous appeals and parole board meetings. When the execution date arrives, if viewing the execution does not bring about the healing or closure expected, the family members may become even more skeptical about the healing process. Watching violence does not likely bring about healing. "We're talking about revenge, and it's not clear to me that revenge changes one's long term ability to deal with loss," stated one psychiatrist. "Every culture has a different way of mourning, but witnessing executions isn't one of them."

The vengeance offered by allowing families to view the execution also ignores the reality that victims often seek a meaning to their victimization, not revenge. "Healing has to be bigger and better than reducing ourselves to participating in gruesome acts."

Offended by the state's offer of retribution, Marrietta Yeager, whose daughter was abducted and murdered during a family camping trip, stated "to say an execution of some malfunctioning individual would help me heal insults the memory of my little girl. She is worthy of a more noble, honorable, and beautiful memorial."



Readings - An Argument Against Allowing The Familites Of Murder Victims To View Executions | The Execution | FRONTLINE | PBS