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Without the Electoral College, the percentage of individual vote is 0.2%.Has nothing to do with distrusting "the people." The EC keeps one or two regions from dominating the entire electorate and helps build a national consensus.
That it kept that crazy son of a bitch Al Gore out of the White House was just gravy.
100% Correct. It staves off a PURE Democracy, which can be summed up as mob RULE, and a step or two away from pure anarchy.
The EC ensures this never happens, and the PEOPLE have a voice from far and wide, and not one of just a FEW elect taint the process to the point where THEY solely RULE.
Right. So the 3 and 4 votes in Alaska and Hawaii are gonna really empower those folks in those states compared the 55 votes California has....
Without the Electoral College, the percentage of individual vote is 0.2%.100% Correct. It staves off a PURE Democracy, which can be summed up as mob RULE, and a step or two away from pure anarchy.
The EC ensures this never happens, and the PEOPLE have a voice from far and wide, and not one of just a FEW elect taint the process to the point where THEY solely RULE.
Right. So the 3 and 4 votes in Alaska and Hawaii are gonna really empower those folks in those states compared the 55 votes California has....
Alaska QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Population of Alaska and the United States
With the Electoral College each vote is 1.5%.
Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Number of electoral votes vs Alaska's 4 votes.
Seems that it works for Alaska.
). ..I remember during one of the Clinton elections (can't remember if it was 94 or 98), but they interviewed a Californian man who said (and I paraphrase) that he wasn't going to vote "because exit polls out east say Clinton is a shoe-in so what's the point".
The one advantage to the electorial college as it was originally done was that it was the state governments themselves that picked the president. This always made the federal government something that represented the state's interest and was one more thing that kept the state governments in the loop of the entire system.
Discuss...
Can't trust the people can we?
Can't trust the people can we?
Has nothing to do with distrusting "the people." The EC keeps one or two regions from dominating the entire electorate and helps build a national consensus.
That it kept that crazy son of a bitch Al Gore out of the White House was just gravy.
Without the Electoral College, the percentage of individual vote is 0.2%.Right. So the 3 and 4 votes in Alaska and Hawaii are gonna really empower those folks in those states compared the 55 votes California has....
Alaska QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Population of Alaska and the United States
With the Electoral College each vote is 1.5%.
Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Number of electoral votes vs Alaska's 4 votes.
Seems that it works for Alaska.
I get that. But the folks on the left coast vote a few hours after the folks on the right and the exit polls start before the folks on the left coast have finished. So if it's a tight race and you live in Alaska, Hawaii, Oregan and Washington and you're heavily red - and you know how the system works - if you add up their EC votes vs California, they may as well not vote because California wups their butts...
On a separate matter with regard to mob rule and tyranny etc. How can it NOT be tyranny when a single person in a population of 300 million can veto a piece of legislation if he doesn't life it? I know it can be overridden, but still, a hell of a power to give a single individual...
as far as I am concerned...Having everyone vote at the same time is not a solution .Without the Electoral College, the percentage of individual vote is 0.2%.
Alaska QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Population of Alaska and the United States
With the Electoral College each vote is 1.5%.
Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Number of electoral votes vs Alaska's 4 votes.
Seems that it works for Alaska.
I get that. But the folks on the left coast vote a few hours after the folks on the right and the exit polls start before the folks on the left coast have finished. So if it's a tight race and you live in Alaska, Hawaii, Oregan and Washington and you're heavily red - and you know how the system works - if you add up their EC votes vs California, they may as well not vote because California wups their butts...
On a separate matter with regard to mob rule and tyranny etc. How can it NOT be tyranny when a single person in a population of 300 million can veto a piece of legislation if he doesn't life it? I know it can be overridden, but still, a hell of a power to give a single individual...
That is why I think we should have a 24 hour period in which to vote and it should be the same period for all voters.
If the polls open at 7am EST in New York, they should close at 7am the next morning and they should open at 4am PST and close at 4am. All polls open and close at the same time nationwide.
That way the exit polls would not influence the Western States and everyone regardless of the hours they work would have an opportunity to vote.
Immie
as far as I am concerned...Having everyone vote at the same time is not a solution .I get that. But the folks on the left coast vote a few hours after the folks on the right and the exit polls start before the folks on the left coast have finished. So if it's a tight race and you live in Alaska, Hawaii, Oregan and Washington and you're heavily red - and you know how the system works - if you add up their EC votes vs California, they may as well not vote because California wups their butts...
On a separate matter with regard to mob rule and tyranny etc. How can it NOT be tyranny when a single person in a population of 300 million can veto a piece of legislation if he doesn't life it? I know it can be overridden, but still, a hell of a power to give a single individual...
That is why I think we should have a 24 hour period in which to vote and it should be the same period for all voters.
If the polls open at 7am EST in New York, they should close at 7am the next morning and they should open at 4am PST and close at 4am. All polls open and close at the same time nationwide.
That way the exit polls would not influence the Western States and everyone regardless of the hours they work would have an opportunity to vote.
Immie
There will always be loopholes and unintended consequences. Looking for the perfect solution is a fool's errand.
That said I have nothing against Poll times being synced. I just have very few expectations that the inequities of a system will be cured.
Polls are mostly manned by volunteers. Poll watching is an art. Polls, are public places. There are people trying to get vote by mail as a standard. I dislike it. Fraud will become more rampant.
Would you dictate a news blackout as a way of keeping voters in the dark on the west coast? ? What would happen if people started a black market in info?
There are NO quick fixes.
It is obvious that most responses to this thread are written by individuals that have little or no knowledge of the history of this country. If you did you would know the following about the Electoral College.
When discussing the election of the president during the writing of the Constitution the EC was a compromise between the large states and the smaller states. The smaller states feared they would have very little impact on the election of the president simply because their populations were not as great as the big states. In a popular, direct vote for the president the small states thought they would hardly ever have much impact on who becomes president. Therefore, in order to gain ratification of the Constitution the EC was devised to give smaller states a bigger voice in the electoral process. This meant that each state would have two votes representing their state plus the number of representatives they have in the House.
The reasons for the EC are as valid today as they were in the beginning.
...where no candidate had a majority, the House would choose from among the top five vote-getters- was a provision born of the Framers' concept that the House would ALWAYS choose the President (at least once George Washington was no longer in office)- that the Electoral College was originally to be a presidential nominating body, much like the National Party Conventions in recent times.
Remember that it was the states that created the federal government and each elect their representatives to the national government. There is no such thing as a "federal election". It can not be found in the Constitution anywhere exept as it relates to voting rights of minorities.
In light of this I suggest you read a little bit before you post such threads as this.
as far as I am concerned...Having everyone vote at the same time is not a solution .That is why I think we should have a 24 hour period in which to vote and it should be the same period for all voters.
If the polls open at 7am EST in New York, they should close at 7am the next morning and they should open at 4am PST and close at 4am. All polls open and close at the same time nationwide.
That way the exit polls would not influence the Western States and everyone regardless of the hours they work would have an opportunity to vote.
Immie
There will always be loopholes and unintended consequences. Looking for the perfect solution is a fool's errand.
That said I have nothing against Poll times being synced. I just have very few expectations that the inequities of a system will be cured.
Polls are mostly manned by volunteers. Poll watching is an art. Polls, are public places. There are people trying to get vote by mail as a standard. I dislike it. Fraud will become more rampant.
Would you dictate a news blackout as a way of keeping voters in the dark on the west coast? ? What would happen if people started a black market in info?
There are NO quick fixes.
You can't dictate such a thing, that is why I think polls should open and close at the time nationwide.
There would not be the ability to influence an election in the manner that the press has used repeatedly if the polls closed at the same time. I believe they are already restricted from broadcasting exit poll data prior to the closing of the polls in a given state. So this would stop the media from instructing those on the West Coast as to what they "must" do to win or convincing them that they may as well stay home because their candidate has already lost.
Immie
as far as I am concerned...Having everyone vote at the same time is not a solution .
There will always be loopholes and unintended consequences. Looking for the perfect solution is a fool's errand.
That said I have nothing against Poll times being synced. I just have very few expectations that the inequities of a system will be cured.
Polls are mostly manned by volunteers. Poll watching is an art. Polls, are public places. There are people trying to get vote by mail as a standard. I dislike it. Fraud will become more rampant.
Would you dictate a news blackout as a way of keeping voters in the dark on the west coast? ? What would happen if people started a black market in info?
There are NO quick fixes.
You can't dictate such a thing, that is why I think polls should open and close at the time nationwide.
There would not be the ability to influence an election in the manner that the press has used repeatedly if the polls closed at the same time. I believe they are already restricted from broadcasting exit poll data prior to the closing of the polls in a given state. So this would stop the media from instructing those on the West Coast as to what they "must" do to win or convincing them that they may as well stay home because their candidate has already lost.
Immie
You would dictate when people would be able to vote? I am not against the polls being open the same hours, but the longer teh polls stay open...the more people can wait and play games. It is part of the electoral process.
Poll watching is what parties do inside the polls. You do know that don't you? People checking up on who is signing in as a voter?
I know. I wasn't sure you agreed.I'm not sure what you mean. We already dictate when they can vote.
I understand. I think voting day should be a holiday. I am ambivalent about the hours, because the kind of stuff that bothers you will happen when polls are open longer.here the polls are open from 7am to 7pm. That sucks for people who work long hours or have long commutes. Making it a full 24 hour period simply makes it easier for those who actually work in this country to vote.
Immie
I know. I wasn't sure you agreed.I'm not sure what you mean. We already dictate when they can vote.
sorry
I understand. I think voting day should be a holiday. I am ambivalent about the hours, because the kind of stuff that bothers you will happen when polls are open longer.here the polls are open from 7am to 7pm. That sucks for people who work long hours or have long commutes. Making it a full 24 hour period simply makes it easier for those who actually work in this country to vote.
Immie
My only suggestion is a holiday. Makes sense. People might go away, is what I've heard as a counter argument. So you see? Down side to every solution.
But voting is not taken seriously in this country, and even when it is the ignorance and stupidity of the common man strikes me in my funny bone.
Look at all the shit people believed about McCain, Clinton, Bush, Kerry, Clinton Obama, before going into the voting booth.
A holiday with extended hours. Life is unfair, but voting is a responsibility.I know. I wasn't sure you agreed.I'm not sure what you mean. We already dictate when they can vote.
sorry
I understand. I think voting day should be a holiday. I am ambivalent about the hours, because the kind of stuff that bothers you will happen when polls are open longer.here the polls are open from 7am to 7pm. That sucks for people who work long hours or have long commutes. Making it a full 24 hour period simply makes it easier for those who actually work in this country to vote.
Immie
My only suggestion is a holiday. Makes sense. People might go away, is what I've heard as a counter argument. So you see? Down side to every solution.
But voting is not taken seriously in this country, and even when it is the ignorance and stupidity of the common man strikes me in my funny bone.
Look at all the shit people believed about McCain, Clinton, Bush, Kerry, Clinton Obama, before going into the voting booth.
Hell, I'm good with a holiday. Can we have weekly elections!
But, what about the people who don't get holidays off? Walmart employees won't get to vote and neither will police/fire/military etc. They don't get holidays off.
Immie
It usually puts an end to squablling in close races. Not always, as 2000 showed, but it was a big help in 1960 and 1968, and also in 1992. It amplifies rather than interferes with the will of the people.
if that were the case then 2000 would have turned out differently. no?
It is obvious that most responses to this thread are written by individuals that have little or no knowledge of the history of this country. If you did you would know the following about the Electoral College.
When discussing the election of the president during the writing of the Constitution the EC was a compromise between the large states and the smaller states. The smaller states feared they would have very little impact on the election of the president simply because their populations were not as great as the big states. In a popular, direct vote for the president the small states thought they would hardly ever have much impact on who becomes president. Therefore, in order to gain ratification of the Constitution the EC was devised to give smaller states a bigger voice in the electoral process. This meant that each state would have two votes representing their state plus the number of representatives they have in the House.
This compromise brought the small states into the fold (Delaware was first to ratify) and eased the path to full ratification by the thirteen states. The reasons for the EC are as valid today as they were in the beginning. Remember that it was the states that created the federal government and each elect their representatives to the national government. There is no such thing as a "federal election". It can not be found in the Constitution anywhere exept as it relates to voting rights of minorities. In light of this I suggest you read a little bit before you post such threads as this.
It usually puts an end to squablling in close races. Not always, as 2000 showed, but it was a big help in 1960 and 1968, and also in 1992. It amplifies rather than interferes with the will of the people.
if that were the case then 2000 would have turned out differently. no?
No, for that election to have turned out differently, the Democrats would have to have been allowed to steal the election with their unending illegal recounts, instead of being stopped in their tracks.
