The Democrats war on babies.

[Shelzin]

From a earlier post in this thread... I'll say it again here so you don't have to search and I think this really ties up my reasoning well.

That's true. However... Say there is a 30 year old that is brain dead in a hospital. The cognitive part of the brain does not, and will never work. Does the body have the right to life? I don't think so. There is no person there. It's just a body. But it's alive. It has life. It will continue to age and grow should you feed and water it. It has a heart beat, it has a nervous system... It'll even react to stimuli assuming the brain stem is still functioning. But there is no person there... Why should care if it lives? Why should I waste resources on it?

Fetus = Brain dead body

Well it's a legitimate point. I would be one to stay keep it going.

Well... So would I if it was my sperm that made it. But that's my choice.

WHy? well, I look as life as a little different, I love effeciency and dont like to waste money, while not many have come out of comas and such, there have been some people and I guess I believe in it the same way a person might believe in cryogenics, because I'm hopeful they might find a way to bring someone back, even if the odds are very very slim,

Well... So far brain dead is brain dead. There is no coming back. But anything is possible I suppose.

again that's because we are dealing with life, which I put above all, again INNOCENT life,

And that's where we really differ... I just don't understand where innocent life comes into the equation. A body can't be innocent or guilty of anything. It just is. A person can be, and in some religions they automatically are one or the other.

if you're a killer, then it's time for you to go.

A wild wolf is a killer. Is it innocent or should we kill them all? (((This is a stupid argument, but I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you believe what you do. I straight out don't understand what innocent or life has to do with anything in the equation))) And again as I've said in this thread... If this is a belief for religions reasons I don't want to continue the conversation. I don't have an argument against your religion, if I did have one I wouldn't use it anyway.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I didn't know that either, but in another abortion thread a member here mentioned it, so I googled and read up on it and their stance....which is, LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION....well, conception is when the egg is fertilized, NOT when it attaches to the woman's uterus, which could take as long as 1-3 days after conception....when it does attach itself, a woman is considered pregnant, but according to most religious pro life stance, conception is the beginning of another human beings life, not pregnancy.

Because most people take the attaching for granted. Which is why people like me dont approve of things that prevent the attaching. Again if it happens naturally, not much you can do, but if you do it on purpose, then that's an issue.
Look the reason abortion is so big for liberals is they want women to have the same sexual freedom as men, and sorry but it doesnt work that way. Having said that, I dont see a guy banging tons of chicks any better than a women that bangs tons of guys, they're both whores and can easily prevent having to get to this point.

they don't have to be whores or screwing the football team, just 1 sexual encounter can result in pregnancy.....in addition to this, many married couples with many children or who are very poor with a few children already, or if the pregnancy occurred within a couple of months after the delivery of a child, or for a number of reasons, also choose abortions. This myth that all females having abortions are whores having all this fun f-ing 24 hours a day, any men they can, is just that, a myth created by the imagination of men.

In vitro fertilization is a huge huge huge NO NO with the Catholic church, it's not permitted, due to all the fertilized eggs that are killed....not just killed when they are inserted, but also killed when 6 of them take, the doctors usually go back in and essencially abort/terminate the extra attached eggs if the mother only wants 1 or 2 children, And the 30 other fertilized eggs that may have not been needed if it worked the first time around, are then later incinerated.....killed. Some religious couples are now donating their 30 left over fertilized eggs to other couples that can't conceive with their own eggs and sperm so that their left over fertilized eggs are not all incinerated.

As for the Catholic Church, I really dont care. My wife and I thought about doing it and our doctor wont do more than 2 or 3, because of that possibility. I dont think you should kill them, you know the situation, and if you're doing 6, that's quite a bit. I will say it's nice of them to donate, because not every woman has the egg follical developement.

 

[ilia25]

This is where I love the discussion. So to you, a person isnt a person until birth?

No... I believe it happens at the start of Rapid Brain Development. Do you still love the discussion?

Yep, I love it, so lets get into details, what is that, when does it start?
I pick conception, pretty simple, egg is potential, sperm is potential, the two together are life, assuming it takes hold in the mother. Why do I pick it like this?

Well if you're 1, to get to 10 years old what do you NEED? Food (including water), oxygen and TIME, everything else is helpful like shelter, love, ect, but they dont grow you. So when the egg is feritlized what does it need before birth? Food, oxygen and time, that's it.

Well, a sheep egg also needs only food and oxygen to develop into a fully grown sheep. But that is not a reason to believe that sheep egg is a human being.

 

[buckeye45_73]

From a earlier post in this thread... I'll say it again here so you don't have to search and I think this really ties up my reasoning well.

That's true. However... Say there is a 30 year old that is brain dead in a hospital. The cognitive part of the brain does not, and will never work. Does the body have the right to life? I don't think so. There is no person there. It's just a body. But it's alive. It has life. It will continue to age and grow should you feed and water it. It has a heart beat, it has a nervous system... It'll even react to stimuli assuming the brain stem is still functioning. But there is no person there... Why should care if it lives? Why should I waste resources on it?

Fetus = Brain dead body

Well it's a legitimate point. I would be one to stay keep it going.

Well... So would I if it was my sperm that made it. But that's my choice.


Well... So far brain dead is brain dead. There is no coming back. But anything is possible I suppose.

again that's because we are dealing with life, which I put above all, again INNOCENT life,

And that's where we really differ... I just don't understand where innocent life comes into the equation. A body can't be innocent or guilty of anything. It just is. A person can be, and in some religions they automatically are one or the other.

No I agree with that, but some dumbass is gonna say what about the death penalty and I'm a big big supporter of it, so that's why I put the qualifier in it.

if you're a killer, then it's time for you to go.

A wild wolf is a killer. Is it innocent or should we kill them all? (((This is a stupid argument, but I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you believe what you do. I straight out don't understand what innocent or life has to do with anything in the equation))) And again as I've said in this thread... If this is a belief for religions reasons I don't want to continue the conversation. I don't have an argument against your religion, if I did have one I wouldn't use it anyway.

Well being a christian has some aspect of it, but I try not to bring that in for that reason, I do believe human life is the most important thing, so that's what I'm saying. According to christianity noone is truely innocent (we're all sinners) so that's not why I say innocent, it's just a statement saying that I do support killing for some reasons, self defense, criminals (certain crimes), war (depending on the reasons). To me Pro life is protecting life of those that deserver protection, and ending it for murders, tyrants, ect.

As for animals, I do belive they are below humans, so no I dont give them the same protections. I am a fan of endangered species laws and helping endangered animals, but if an animal kills a person, yes I'm for killing the animal, although humans have to be smart and not do stupid things. Playing with tigers is stupid and can kill you, I'm not that brave!

 

[buckeye45_73]

No... I believe it happens at the start of Rapid Brain Development. Do you still love the discussion?

Yep, I love it, so lets get into details, what is that, when does it start?
I pick conception, pretty simple, egg is potential, sperm is potential, the two together are life, assuming it takes hold in the mother. Why do I pick it like this?

Well if you're 1, to get to 10 years old what do you NEED? Food (including water), oxygen and TIME, everything else is helpful like shelter, love, ect, but they dont grow you. So when the egg is feritlized what does it need before birth? Food, oxygen and time, that's it.

Well, a sheep egg also needs only food and oxygen to develop into a fully grown sheep. But that is not a reason to believe that sheep egg is a human being.

No, we call that a sheep, humans make humans, sheep make sheep. Sheep are a much lesser concern, for this debate I was under the assumption you would know it was humans.

 

[Care4all]

Because most people take the attaching for granted. Which is why people like me dont approve of things that prevent the attaching. Again if it happens naturally, not much you can do, but if you do it on purpose, then that's an issue.
Look the reason abortion is so big for liberals is they want women to have the same sexual freedom as men, and sorry but it doesnt work that way. Having said that, I dont see a guy banging tons of chicks any better than a women that bangs tons of guys, they're both whores and can easily prevent having to get to this point.

they don't have to be whores or screwing the football team, just 1 sexual encounter can result in pregnancy.....in addition to this, many married couples with many children or who are very poor with a few children already, or if the pregnancy occurred within a couple of months after the delivery of a child, or for a number of reasons, also choose abortions. This myth that all females having abortions are whores having all this fun f-ing 24 hours a day, any men they can, is just that, a myth created by the imagination of men.

In vitro fertilization is a huge huge huge NO NO with the Catholic church, it's not permitted, due to all the fertilized eggs that are killed....not just killed when they are inserted, but also killed when 6 of them take, the doctors usually go back in and essencially abort/terminate the extra attached eggs if the mother only wants 1 or 2 children, And the 30 other fertilized eggs that may have not been needed if it worked the first time around, are then later incinerated.....killed. Some religious couples are now donating their 30 left over fertilized eggs to other couples that can't conceive with their own eggs and sperm so that their left over fertilized eggs are not all incinerated.

As for the Catholic Church, I really dont care. My wife and I thought about doing it and our doctor wont do more than 2 or 3, because of that possibility. I dont think you should kill them, you know the situation, and if you're doing 6, that's quite a bit. I will say it's nice of them to donate, because not every woman has the egg follical developement.

My husband and I as well....it just didn't turn out the way we expected and here we are 20 years later with no children!

Good luck to you and your wife!

 

[Londoner]

Fetus = Brain dead body

Study your Michel Foucault.

Power works by turning the body into a site for moralization - by creating a discursive access point to the individual. The fetus is a moral lynchpin for controlling the individual.

Of course there are better lynchpins. The best example is the soul. It is that divine thing within us before which our appetitive or human elements must bow.

The point of Christianity is to turn the creative self into an obedient sheep which obeys God. Of course, we never really meet God to see what he actually wants from us, rather, we must live in servitude to His interlocutors, to his earthy representatives in Government called the Republican party. This is blasphemy beyond words.

Ayn Rand was a devout atheist, yet she remains an iconic figure on the Right. Paul Ryan credits her with being his primary inspiration. Do you think the person who started this thread will withhold his support for Ryan? Answer: of course not. Because in the dark all religious people who hate human freedom are as corrupt as the moral slavery they push.

Jesus Christ is turning over on his cross.

 

[Shelzin]

Well it's a legitimate point. I would be one to stay keep it going.

Well... So would I if it was my sperm that made it. But that's my choice.


Well... So far brain dead is brain dead. There is no coming back. But anything is possible I suppose.


And that's where we really differ... I just don't understand where innocent life comes into the equation. A body can't be innocent or guilty of anything. It just is. A person can be, and in some religions they automatically are one or the other.

No I agree with that, but some dumbass is gonna say what about the death penalty and I'm a big big supporter of it, so that's why I put the qualifier in it.

if you're a killer, then it's time for you to go.

A wild wolf is a killer. Is it innocent or should we kill them all? (((This is a stupid argument, but I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you believe what you do. I straight out don't understand what innocent or life has to do with anything in the equation))) And again as I've said in this thread... If this is a belief for religions reasons I don't want to continue the conversation. I don't have an argument against your religion, if I did have one I wouldn't use it anyway.

Well being a christian has some aspect of it, but I try not to bring that in for that reason, I do believe human life is the most important thing, so that's what I'm saying. According to christianity noone is truely innocent (we're all sinners) so that's not why I say innocent, it's just a statement saying that I do support killing for some reasons, self defense, criminals (certain crimes), war (depending on the reasons). To me Pro life is protecting life of those that deserver protection, and ending it for murders, tyrants, ect.

*nods* yeah... ok.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I just want to make it clear that I WANT you to understand my PoV... I WANT to understand yours. For selfish reasons. If my thoughts, theories, and ideals can't stand up to criticism then they are quite frankly wrong. Getting someone to agree with me isn't even as close as important as them understanding the point I'm trying to make. Because if they understand, then they are more apt to be able to actually criticize it more effectively. Essentially I'm using you to better myself.

So thank you, and well met.

 

[buckeye45_73]

they don't have to be whores or screwing the football team, just 1 sexual encounter can result in pregnancy.....in addition to this, many married couples with many children or who are very poor with a few children already, or if the pregnancy occurred within a couple of months after the delivery of a child, or for a number of reasons, also choose abortions. This myth that all females having abortions are whores having all this fun f-ing 24 hours a day, any men they can, is just that, a myth created by the imagination of men.

In vitro fertilization is a huge huge huge NO NO with the Catholic church, it's not permitted, due to all the fertilized eggs that are killed....not just killed when they are inserted, but also killed when 6 of them take, the doctors usually go back in and essencially abort/terminate the extra attached eggs if the mother only wants 1 or 2 children, And the 30 other fertilized eggs that may have not been needed if it worked the first time around, are then later incinerated.....killed. Some religious couples are now donating their 30 left over fertilized eggs to other couples that can't conceive with their own eggs and sperm so that their left over fertilized eggs are not all incinerated.

As for the Catholic Church, I really dont care. My wife and I thought about doing it and our doctor wont do more than 2 or 3, because of that possibility. I dont think you should kill them, you know the situation, and if you're doing 6, that's quite a bit. I will say it's nice of them to donate, because not every woman has the egg follical developement.

My husband and I as well....it just didn't turn out the way we expected and here we are 20 years later with no children!

Good luck to you and your wife!

Thank you, I'm sorry to hear that, it's tough, and it kinda sucks how some people who want kids cant have them (although adoption is a good choice and we have looked into that as well) and people that can have kids dont want them, part of the old saying life isnt fair....haha

 

[buckeye45_73]

Well... So would I if it was my sperm that made it. But that's my choice.


Well... So far brain dead is brain dead. There is no coming back. But anything is possible I suppose.


And that's where we really differ... I just don't understand where innocent life comes into the equation. A body can't be innocent or guilty of anything. It just is. A person can be, and in some religions they automatically are one or the other.

No I agree with that, but some dumbass is gonna say what about the death penalty and I'm a big big supporter of it, so that's why I put the qualifier in it.


A wild wolf is a killer. Is it innocent or should we kill them all? (((This is a stupid argument, but I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you believe what you do. I straight out don't understand what innocent or life has to do with anything in the equation))) And again as I've said in this thread... If this is a belief for religions reasons I don't want to continue the conversation. I don't have an argument against your religion, if I did have one I wouldn't use it anyway.

Well being a christian has some aspect of it, but I try not to bring that in for that reason, I do believe human life is the most important thing, so that's what I'm saying. According to christianity noone is truely innocent (we're all sinners) so that's not why I say innocent, it's just a statement saying that I do support killing for some reasons, self defense, criminals (certain crimes), war (depending on the reasons). To me Pro life is protecting life of those that deserver protection, and ending it for murders, tyrants, ect.

*nods* yeah... ok.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I just want to make it clear that I WANT you to understand my PoV... I WANT to understand yours. For selfish reasons. If my thoughts, theories, and ideals can't stand up to criticism then they are quite frankly wrong. Getting someone to agree with me isn't even as close as important as them understanding the point I'm trying to make. Because if they understand, then they are more apt to be able to actually criticize it more effectively. Essentially I'm using you to better myself.

So thank you, and well met.

yeah, I understand that, people have different points of view, and I like it when people can look at issues and back something up. I'm one to examine my own ideas and I check out differnet sources, I have registered to Daily KOS And Red State, to see the differnt points. I see that you can defend your position and while we disagree, I respect that. I guess it comes from my father who is a christian, scientist and professor.

 

[ScienceRocks]

A baby should be loved, not killed. People need to stop screwing it's really that simple.

Keep your pants up and your zipper zipped. If you can't do that then you can always take a morning after pill the next day.

Let's be better than this. We're not uncivilized animals. At least I hope not.

 

[ilia25]

Yep, I love it, so lets get into details, what is that, when does it start?
I pick conception, pretty simple, egg is potential, sperm is potential, the two together are life, assuming it takes hold in the mother. Why do I pick it like this?

Well if you're 1, to get to 10 years old what do you NEED? Food (including water), oxygen and TIME, everything else is helpful like shelter, love, ect, but they dont grow you. So when the egg is feritlized what does it need before birth? Food, oxygen and time, that's it.

Well, a sheep egg also needs only food and oxygen to develop into a fully grown sheep. But that is not a reason to believe that sheep egg is a human being.

No, we call that a sheep, humans make humans, sheep make sheep. Sheep are a much lesser concern, for this debate I was under the assumption you would know it was humans.

A fertilized egg can develop into a sheep or a human, but it is still just an egg. A single cell. You can't call it human, unless you believe that it hosts an eternal soul, or something...

Which is fine -- but you cannot impose your religious beliefs on others. If you do, then you are no better than those Taliban who yesterday beheaded people for having a party with music.

 

[RDD_1210]

Why? Oh yes, this is the "you pro-lifers support them in utero but once they're born you forget about them" meme. Right? So, following this if I haven't adopted any kids there's no fucking waaaay I could ever, you know, contribute to charities that do help kids get adopted. Right?

Lame. Try again.

Swing and a miss! I'll humor you though, how much have you donated to charities that help kids that need care?

Have you? Look in the mirror

Woops, not what I asked. Solid deflection though.

 

[JoeB131]

Roughly half the nation disagrees with you. I disagree with you, and I'm not going to pander to you by admitting something I don't believe is true.

If you want to fight, that's your right I just think its a fight that hinders the pro-life party, especially in a time where most people don't care about someone else's abortion, because they are too busy worrying about keeping a roof over their heads.

Well go abort some kids, I mean it's just like getting a hangnail removed, correct?

People like you are unbelievable.....life takes a backseat to nothing, for without life, the economy is meaningless

Wait a minute, I thought Romney didn't want to talk about this issue, because the economy was the important issue.

 

[editec]

LIFE doesn't begin at conceptiom.

LIFE begins when the kids are old enough to move out of the house and take care of themselves.

Every parent knows that.

 

[Zoom-boing]

How many babies have you adopted?

Why? Oh yes, this is the "you pro-lifers support them in utero but once they're born you forget about them" meme. Right? So, following this if I haven't adopted any kids there's no fucking waaaay I could ever, you know, contribute to charities that do help kids get adopted. Right?

Lame. Try again.

Swing and a miss! I'll humor you though, how much have you donated to charities that help kids that need care?

As much as we've been able to (which admittedly for several years wasn't much, we simply didn't have the funds).

You ignored GMU's main point, which is that he was glad he wasn't aborted but rather that he was given a chance. Given a chance. There are no guarantees on the outcome but don't you think that a human life should be given the opportunity to .... live?

 

[RDD_1210]

Why? Oh yes, this is the "you pro-lifers support them in utero but once they're born you forget about them" meme. Right? So, following this if I haven't adopted any kids there's no fucking waaaay I could ever, you know, contribute to charities that do help kids get adopted. Right?

Lame. Try again.

Swing and a miss! I'll humor you though, how much have you donated to charities that help kids that need care?

As much as we've been able to (which admittedly for several years wasn't much, we simply didn't have the funds).

Because raising a child is not cheap. Right? So why would you force someone to bring a child in to this world that they are not ready for? Who wins there? The mother forced to raise a child she can not care for adequately. Or the child who didn't ask to be brought in to this world where they are unwanted and start and often finish their life struggling in every facet of their existence. Whats the point? So you can "teach the mother a lesson".

Like I said, if you and the rest of the anti-woman crowd was truly interested in the well being of these children, you'd be doing everything possible, AFTER THEY ARE BORN, to ensure they children are protected. But you're not, thus proving my point.

You ignored GMU's main point, which is that he was glad he wasn't aborted but rather that he was given a chance. Given a chance. There are no guarantees on the outcome but don't you think that a human life should be given the opportunity to .... live?

A human life? Absolutely. An embryo, an early stage fetus is not a human life. Not yet. I'm not advocating late term abortion, but no abortion even at the early stages is not killing a person, no more then a man masturbating is or a woman who has her period is.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Swing and a miss! I'll humor you though, how much have you donated to charities that help kids that need care?

As much as we've been able to (which admittedly for several years wasn't much, we simply didn't have the funds).

Because raising a child is not cheap. Right? So why would you force someone to bring a child in to this world that they are not ready for? Who wins there? The mother forced to raise a child she can not care for adequately. Or the child who didn't ask to be brought in to this world where they are unwanted and start and often finish their life struggling in every facet of their existence. Whats the point? So you can "teach the mother a lesson".

Like I said, if you and the rest of the anti-woman crowd was truly interested in the well being of these children, you'd be doing everything possible, AFTER THEY ARE BORN, to ensure they children are protected. But you're not, thus proving my point.

Let me get this straight ... you're stating that those who speak up for the life of the unborn are what, hypocrites? if they are not 100% taking care of that child from cradle to grave (someone else taking care of a person from cradle to grave ..hmmm, that's sounds so familiar) but the woman and man who took part in creating this life bear no responsibility in the raising of the child because it's hard, expensive and gosh she/they just aren't up to it? You place ZERO responsibility on her/them and full responsibility on someone else. How. Typical. There are a plethora of avenues, both public and private, available for helping those who have an unplanned child yet you act as if nothing at all is out there. What a bunch of hooey.

Anti-woman crowd? Uh, that would be the folks who support selective (female) gender abortion.

You ignored GMU's main point, which is that he was glad he wasn't aborted but rather that he was given a chance. Given a chance. There are no guarantees on the outcome but don't you think that a human life should be given the opportunity to .... live?

A human life? Absolutely. An embryo, an early stage fetus is not a human life. Not yet.

Of course it is, it's one of the earliest developmental stages of a human being.

I'm not advocating late term abortion, but no abortion even at the early stages is not killing a person,

That unique, one-of-a-kind human being that never existed before being conceived and will never again exist is most certainly a person and abortion terminates/destroys/ends that individual human beings life. You are advocating late term abortion ... you just stated that "abortion, even at the early stages, is not killing a person". If abortion isn't killing a person then you're fine with late term abortion.

no more then a man masturbating is or a woman who has her period is.

I'm sorry you were sick and missed your biology classes.

 

[AmyNation]

As much as we've been able to (which admittedly for several years wasn't much, we simply didn't have the funds).

Because raising a child is not cheap. Right? So why would you force someone to bring a child in to this world that they are not ready for? Who wins there? The mother forced to raise a child she can not care for adequately. Or the child who didn't ask to be brought in to this world where they are unwanted and start and often finish their life struggling in every facet of their existence. Whats the point? So you can "teach the mother a lesson".

Like I said, if you and the rest of the anti-woman crowd was truly interested in the well being of these children, you'd be doing everything possible, AFTER THEY ARE BORN, to ensure they children are protected. But you're not, thus proving my point.

Let me get this straight ... you're stating that those who speak up for the life of the unborn are what, hypocrites? if they are not 100% taking care of that child from cradle to grave (someone else taking care of a person from cradle to grave ..hmmm, that's sounds so familiar) but the woman and man who took part in creating this life bear no responsibility in the raising of the child because it's hard, expensive and gosh she/they just aren't up to it? You place ZERO responsibility on her/them and full responsibility on someone else. How. Typical. There are a plethora of avenues, both public and private, available for helping those who have an unplanned child yet you act as if nothing at all is out there. What a bunch of hooey.

Anti-woman crowd? Uh, that would be the folks who support selective (female) gender abortion.





Of course it is, it's one of the earliest developmental stages of a human being.

I'm not advocating late term abortion, but no abortion even at the early stages is not killing a person,

That unique, one-of-a-kind human being that never existed before being conceived and will never again exist is most certainly a person and abortion terminates/destroys/ends that individual human beings life. You are advocating late term abortion ... you just stated that "abortion, even at the early stages, is not killing a person". If abortion isn't killing a person then you're fine with late term abortion.

no more then a man masturbating is or a woman who has her period is.

I'm sorry you were sick and missed your biology classes.

So you believe IVF is murder right?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Because raising a child is not cheap. Right? So why would you force someone to bring a child in to this world that they are not ready for? Who wins there? The mother forced to raise a child she can not care for adequately. Or the child who didn't ask to be brought in to this world where they are unwanted and start and often finish their life struggling in every facet of their existence. Whats the point? So you can "teach the mother a lesson".

Like I said, if you and the rest of the anti-woman crowd was truly interested in the well being of these children, you'd be doing everything possible, AFTER THEY ARE BORN, to ensure they children are protected. But you're not, thus proving my point.

Let me get this straight ... you're stating that those who speak up for the life of the unborn are what, hypocrites? if they are not 100% taking care of that child from cradle to grave (someone else taking care of a person from cradle to grave ..hmmm, that's sounds so familiar) but the woman and man who took part in creating this life bear no responsibility in the raising of the child because it's hard, expensive and gosh she/they just aren't up to it? You place ZERO responsibility on her/them and full responsibility on someone else. How. Typical. There are a plethora of avenues, both public and private, available for helping those who have an unplanned child yet you act as if nothing at all is out there. What a bunch of hooey.

Anti-woman crowd? Uh, that would be the folks who support selective (female) gender abortion.





Of course it is, it's one of the earliest developmental stages of a human being.



That unique, one-of-a-kind human being that never existed before being conceived and will never again exist is most certainly a person and abortion terminates/destroys/ends that individual human beings life. You are advocating late term abortion ... you just stated that "abortion, even at the early stages, is not killing a person". If abortion isn't killing a person then you're fine with late term abortion.

no more then a man masturbating is or a woman who has her period is.

I'm sorry you were sick and missed your biology classes.

So you believe IVF is murder right?

Yeah, not a fan of IVF at all. On the basis that I do believe life begins at fertilization but also -- and I'm aware that I'm likely standing in a corner all alone on this but -- I truly believe that everything happens for a reason. If we were never able to have our own children it would be because we were meant to adopt ... that our child was already here.

I wonder if IVF has impacted adoption?