The debate on climate change is now over. The verdict: Too late to do anything about it!

[Crick]

The idea of "saving" the planet is both ludicrous and pretentious.

The planet has no idea we are here. It will not even notice when we're gone.

We might.

 

[Crick]

The Earth has no idea that humans exist on it's skin, any more than it knew about the dinosaurs or Cretaceous critters. Our Earth has, in its long life, been a molten hell, a frozen snowball, much drier and much wetter than it is today. Man had nothing to do with those changes. Our Earth will continue to rotate, orbit, and move around tectonically long after humans have left and intelligent ants have taken our place, never having noticed we are gone.

Seymour Flops said:
>True

But irrelevant. If you want to think that humans cannot affect the climate because it changed without us in the past, perhaps you can be convinced that humans do not start forest fires because those happened long before humans were around.

As for losing our "Eden". Industrial technology has brought us closer to a scriptural Eden than ever before. For most of human existence, we lived short, hard, lives, always one bad harvest away from starvation. Today, thanks to industrial technology, we live life-spans that only biblical patriarchs could hope for. We have an abundance of food. we don't even have to pick it off the tree, it is delivered to our door. We live lives of leisure and comfort that would make Adam and Eve envious.

Seymour Flops said:
>Democrats don't get that part. At all. Because they dont'([sic] understand dynamic reasoning.

A generalization like that is patently false. Such generalizations are the underpinnings of bigotry.

Seymour Flops said:
>They truly believe that they can stop industrialization and then hundred years later, which they will live to see, they can use social media to plan for a centinial[sic] of no industrialization party, at which they will have shelter, abundant food, heating and air conditioning, >and convenient transportation to and from the party, after which they will return to their roomy and comfortable dwellings, proud of themselves for having vanquished the evil industrialists for good.
>
>They don't think things through.

No one is having that fantasy except you.

Our skies are cleaner than those of men from Paleolithic to Victorian times, choking on their campfires and fireplaces. Our cities and suburbs are greener than ever before. Our streets are no longer ankle deep in refuse and animal manure as they have been since streets were invented.

You can self-flagellate over your ecological sins all you like if that brings you pleasure, but keep your scourges off of me. I have nothing for which to atone.

Seymour Flops said:
>Well said.

Our skies are not cleaner than those of the Paleolithic. Humans and their campfires were too few. The Victorian era took place in the beginning of the Industrial era - the point in time when humans began burning fossil fuels for energy. With absolutely no concern for pollution, the atmosphere in large metropolitan areas suffered. Be that as it may, the amount of CO2 being put into the air then is absolutely dwarfed by what it produced today. Poster fncceo could certainly atone for his ignorance if he wanted.

 

[justoffal]

View attachment 676469

‘Soon it will be unrecognisable’: total climate meltdown cannot be stopped, says expert

And this is just the beginning, insists McGuire, who is emeritus professor of geophysical and climate hazards at University College London. As he makes clear in his uncompromising depiction of the coming climatic catastrophe, we have – for far too long – ignored explicit warnings that rising carbon emissions are dangerously heating the Earth. Now we are going to pay the price for our complacence in the form of storms, floods, droughts and heatwaves that will easily surpass current extremes.

The crucial point, he argues, is that there is now no chance of us avoiding a perilous, all-pervasive climate breakdown. We have passed the point of no return and can expect a future in which lethal heatwaves and temperatures in excess of 50C (120F) are common in the tropics; where summers at temperate latitudes will invariably be baking hot, and where our oceans are destined to become warm and acidic. “A child born in 2020 will face a far more hostile world that its grandparents did,” McGuire insists.

I can almost hear that part in red being overly-dramatically read by a talking head with a thick Brit accent.

My take on this as an ignorant non-climate expert is that one hot summer is does not portend the end of the world. We've had hotter ones and the word didn't end. The nearby lake dropped considerably, but all the water came back.

But if it is now settled science that it is too late to do anything, we can all stop stressing out about it. Thank God. Let's just enjoy the little time we have left. I propose that reasonably young and attractive women break away from the norms of modest dress, since we need to stay cool.

Just be careful: If Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama sell their beachfront property, don't buy it! They will offer it at a bargain price, because it will be under water very soon. Warm and acidic water, to boot!

This important article states later:

And we should be in no doubt about the consequences. Anything above 1.5C will see a world plagued by intense summer heat, extreme drought, devastating floods, reduced crop yields, rapidly melting ice sheets and surging sea levels. A rise of 2C and above will seriously threaten the stability of global society, McGuire argues.

Since many more men than women will die off early, in a futile attempt to save the planet, will we have to abandon the traditional monogamous sexual relationship, at least as far as men are concerned?

Regretfully, yes.

It should also be noted that according to the most hopeful estimates of emission cut pledges made at Cop26, the world is on course to heat up by between 2.4C and 3C.

Doh! I bet now those 400 COP26 bigwigs wish they had not flown to the summit in private jets!

Been nice knowing y'all. Let's keep this forum going until the lights go out, huh?

The resulting vegetative bloom may actually work back against the greenhouse effect.

 

[abu afak]

C3S confirmed 2023 as the hottest year in global temperature records going back to 1850.
'When checked against paleoclimatic data records from sources such as tree rings and air bubbles in glaciers, Buontempo said it was "very likely" the warmest year in the last 100,000 years. Jan 9, 2024

2023 was world's hottest year on record, EU scientists confirm​

Reuters
https://www.reuters.com › business › environment › 20...

2023 is the hottest year on record, with global temperatures ...​

Climate Copernicus
https://climate.copernicus.eu › copernicus-2023-hottest-...
Jan 9, 2024 — Copernicus: 2023 is the hottest year on record, with global temperatures close to the 1.5°C limit.

The world hasn't been this warm in 100000 years​

Business Insider
https://www.businessinsider.com › Science

Jan 11, 2024 — The planet's average temperature was 1.48 degrees Celsius warmer than the preindustrial era was more than a century ago. The new average topped ...

Analysis: Is it actually hotter now than any time in the last 100,000...​

PBS
https://www.pbs.org › newshour › science › analysis-is-...

Jul 29, 2023 — Earth's average global temperature has fluctuated between glacial and interglacial conditions in cycles lasting around 100,000 years, driven ...

2023 was world's hottest year on record; warmest in 100,000 years...​

Deccan Herald
https://www.deccanherald.com › Environment

Jan 9, 2024 — 2023 was world's hottest year on record; warmest in 100,000 years. The global average temperature for 2023 was 1.48 degrees Celsius higher than ...

Earth is at its hottest in thousands of years. Here's how we ...​

Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › weather › 2023/07/08
Jul 8, 2023 — Scientists are confident that, apart from the global warming of recent decades,
it was Earth's warmest period in the past 100,000 years. They ...

Earth shattered global heat record in '23 and it's flirting with ..​

AP News
https://apnews.com › article
Jan 9, 2024 — Earth shattered global annual heat records last year and it's flirting with the warming ... warmest the Earth has been in more than 100,000 years.

2023 confirmed as planet Earth's hottest year ever, and ' ...​

South China Morning Post
https://www.scmp.com › News › World


Jan 9, 2024 — ... warmest year in the last 100,000 years. On average, in 2023 the planet was 1.48 degrees Celsius warmer than in the 1850-1900 pre-industrial ...

2023 Likely Hottest In 100000 Years, Scientists Call It A ...​

NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com › World News

Feb 9, 2024 — Copernicus said last month was the hottest January on record -- the eighth month in a row of historic high monthly temperatures -- with ...

Record greenhouse gases make 2023 likely the hottest in 100,000 years​

Scripps News
https://www.scrippsnews.com › climate-change › record...

Jan 9, 2024 — While the records only go back 173 years, scientists believe 2023 was the hottest year in at least 100,000 years. "2023 was an exceptional ...

``

 

[Seymour Flops]

Seymour Flops said:

True

But irrelevant. If you want to think that humans cannot affect the climate because it changed without us in the past, perhaps you can be convinced that humans do not start forest fires because those happened long before humans were around.

Seymour Flops said:

Democrats don't get that part. At all. Because they dont'([sic] understand dynamic reasoning.

A generalization like that is patently false. Such generalizations are the underpinnings of bigotry.

Seymour Flops said:

They truly believe that they can stop industrialization and then hundred years later, which they will live to see, they can use social media to plan for a centinial[sic] of no industrialization party, at which they will have shelter, abundant food, heating and air conditioning, >and convenient transportation to and from the party, after which they will return to their roomy and comfortable dwellings, proud of themselves for having vanquished the evil industrialists for good.

They don't think things through.

No one is having that fantasy except you.


Seymour Flops said:

Well said.

Our skies are not cleaner than those of the Paleolithic. Humans and their campfires were too few. The Victorian era took place in the beginning of the Industrial era - the point in time when humans began burning fossil fuels for energy. With absolutely no concern for pollution, the atmosphere in large metropolitan areas suffered. Be that as it may, the amount of CO2 being put into the air then is absolutely dwarfed by what it produced today. Poster fncceo could certainly atone for his ignorance if he wanted.

Interesting analogy about the forest fires. Growing up I saw Smoky the Bear over and over telling us that “only you can prevent fortest fires.” Big responsibility for a kid, but I realize as a teenager they met humans in general. As an adult, I learned that the overwhelming majority of forest fires are caused by lightning strikes and other nonhuman causes.

As an even older adult, I learn that the majority of human caused forest fires are from illegal aliens crossing into California starting their fires and just leaving them because who cares is not their country anyway.

Children can afford to be gullible. Adults have to learn to think for themselves.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Seymour Flops said:

True

But irrelevant. If you want to think that humans cannot affect the climate because it changed without us in the past, perhaps you can be convinced that humans do not start forest fires because those happened long before humans were around.

Seymour Flops said:

Democrats don't get that part. At all. Because they dont'([sic] understand dynamic reasoning.

A generalization like that is patently false. Such generalizations are the underpinnings of bigotry.

Seymour Flops said:

They truly believe that they can stop industrialization and then hundred years later, which they will live to see, they can use social media to plan for a centinial[sic] of no industrialization party, at which they will have shelter, abundant food, heating and air conditioning, >and convenient transportation to and from the party, after which they will return to their roomy and comfortable dwellings, proud of themselves for having vanquished the evil industrialists for good.

They don't think things through.

No one is having that fantasy except you.


Seymour Flops said:

Well said.

Our skies are not cleaner than those of the Paleolithic. Humans and their campfires were too few. The Victorian era took place in the beginning of the Industrial era - the point in time when humans began burning fossil fuels for energy. With absolutely no concern for pollution, the atmosphere in large metropolitan areas suffered. Be that as it may, the amount of CO2 being put into the air then is absolutely dwarfed by what it produced today. Poster fncceo could certainly atone for his ignorance if he wanted.

Interesting analogy about the forest fires. When I was a kid, Smoky the Bear told me over and over “only you can prevent for as fires. “Big responsibility for a kid. Later, I realized as a teenager that Smoky met humans in general. As an adult, I came to learn that the majority of forest fires are caused by lightning strikes, and other nonhuman causes.

Later, in that same adult life, I learned that the majority of human calls force fires are caused by illegal aliens, primarily in California building, campfires and walking away from them because who cares it’s not their country anyway. I worry too much about being a little Cub Scout Seymour toasting some marshmallows and making sure to give the fire the cold out test before I went to sleep.

As kids we can afford to be gullible. As adults we need to learn to think for ourselves.

 

[Stann]

The resulting vegetative bloom may actually work back against the greenhouse effect.

But it's still undesirable vegetative growth by standards we are used to. With all the efforts so far 2023 was the highest CO2 levels ever. If we could stop all CO2 production ( not humanly possible ) it would take several thousand years to get back to pre-industrial levels of that element. We are in bigger trouble than anyone could imagine. The worst is yet to come. Goodbye Florida, etc. etc.

 

[justoffal]

But it's still undesirable vegetative growth by standards we are used to. With all the efforts so far 2023 was the highest CO2 levels ever. If we could stop all CO2 production ( not humanly possible ) it would take several thousand years to get back to pre-industrial levels of that element. We are in bigger trouble than anyone could imagine. The worst is yet to come. Goodbye Florida, etc. etc.

Assuming linear relationships which is always a bad idea when dealing with the unknown. We could flip the other way and turn into an ice ball. Earth has been there before. Vegetation is usually beneficial to the atmosphere.

 

[Stann]

Assuming linear relationships which is always a bad idea when dealing with the unknown. We could flip the other way and turn into an ice ball. Earth has been there before. Vegetation is usually beneficial to the atmosphere.

No matter the picture isn't good. We blew it on.this planet. Time to start looking for another one and hopefully not destroy it.

 

[ReinyDays]

But it's still undesirable vegetative growth by standards we are used to. With all the efforts so far 2023 was the highest CO2 levels ever. If we could stop all CO2 production ( not humanly possible ) it would take several thousand years to get back to pre-industrial levels of that element. We are in bigger trouble than anyone could imagine. The worst is yet to come. Goodbye Florida, etc. etc.

Wow ... can I see you're math on that ... how does two feet of sea level rise inundate Miami International Airport, elevation 7 feet above sea level ... you must think the French built New Orleans below sea level of something ... sheeesh ... how ridiculous ...

The Everglades Parkway ... US 41 ... should fully protect Florida ... unless you can show why a 20 foot berm can't control 2 feet of water ...

... and show your math ...

 

[Stann]

Wow ... can I see you're math on that ... how does two feet of sea level rise inundate Miami International Airport, elevation 7 feet above sea level ... you must think the French built New Orleans below sea level of something ... sheeesh ... how ridiculous ...

The Everglades Parkway ... US 41 ... should fully protect Florida ... unless you can show why a 20 foot berm can't control 2 feet of water ...

... and show your math ...

Sorry , I'm thinking long-term. When all the polar ice caps melt the seas will rise 230 feet as it did 50 million years ago. Nothing for you ( or your grandchildren and great grandchildren to worry about. That scenario will not play out for about 5,000 years at the current levels. Ever.see the movie " Water world " , that's what we're creating. In the more mediate future before 2050 we will lose 4.3 million acres of land to the seas. Unfortunately most of the we world's vulnerable population still lives in these coastal areas.

 

[ReinyDays]

Sorry , I'm thinking long-term. When all the polar ice caps melt the seas will rise 230 feet as it did 50 million years ago. Nothing for you ( or your grandchildren and great grandchildren to worry about. That scenario will not play out for about 5,000 years at the current levels. Ever.see the movie " Water world " , that's what we're creating. In the more mediate future before 2050 we will lose 4.3 million acres of land to the seas. Unfortunately most of the we world's vulnerable population still lives in these coastal areas.

You mean 50 million years ... do you understand we're colder today than 10,000 years ago? ... sea levels are twenty to thirty feet lower than then, the bench is obvious along the Pacific Coast ...

The same energy can only raise temperature or melt ice ... not both ... so which is it ... global warming or rising sea levels ... if we split the energy between the two, both will be negligible ... you only have 2 W/m^2 ... whatever you're doing, it's gonna take an abnormally long period of time ... like 50 million years ...

You're burning coal to tell us the evils of burning coal ... that's hypocritical ...

 

[Stann]

You mean 50 million years ... do you understand we're colder today than 10,000 years ago? ... sea levels are twenty to thirty feet lower than then, the bench is obvious along the Pacific Coast ...

The same energy can only raise temperature or melt ice ... not both ... so which is it ... global warming or rising sea levels ... if we split the energy between the two, both will be negligible ... you only have 2 W/m^2 ... whatever you're doing, it's gonna take an abnormally long period of time ... like 50 million years ...

You're burning coal to tell us the evils of burning coal ... that's hypocritical ...

Incorrect for the most part but I 'm not here to argue just give the facts. And we certainly have done this to ourselves. The rate of change is astronomical. Yes we are still ina post glacial age. Not for long.

 

[ReinyDays]

Incorrect for the most part but I 'm not here to argue just give the facts. And we certainly have done this to ourselves. The rate of change is astronomical. Yes we are still ina post glacial age. Not for long.

Hyperbole is now "fact" ...

How long does it take for a 2-watt light bulb to melt the ten million cubic miles of ice currently located on Antarctica? ... for extra credit, how much will temperature change during this process? ... all you need is high school algebra and a reference for physical constants ...

Don't be shy ... I know 2 watts is an insane amount of energy for just one light bulb ... even astronomers cross their legs looking at that value ...

 

[justoffal]

Hyperbole is now "fact" ...

How long does it take for a 2-watt light bulb to melt the ten million cubic miles of ice currently located on Antarctica? ... for extra credit, how much will temperature change during this process? ... all you need is high school algebra and a reference for physical constants ...

Don't be shy ... I know 2 watts is an insane amount of energy for just one light bulb ... even astronomers cross their legs looking at that value ...

I honestly don't understand the panic. An I can say is that the whole thing fits up to a classic con.

First the emergency, then the solution.....and then the Wallet and as always there's no time to think it has to be NOW.

 

[Stann]

Hyperbole is now "fact" ...

How long does it take for a 2-watt light bulb to melt the ten million cubic miles of ice currently located on Antarctica? ... for extra credit, how much will temperature change during this process? ... all you need is high school algebra and a reference for physical constants ...

Don't be shy ... I know 2 watts is an insane amount of energy for just one light bulb ... even astronomers cross their legs looking at that value ...

The naysayers will continue to deny climate change until the end of time. Sorry your opinion has been negated by the vast majority of people and the scientists on this planet who realize the truth. The so-called debate is long over. Try to have a nice day , I plan on it.

 

[ReinyDays]

I honestly don't understand the panic. An I can say is that the whole thing fits up to a classic con.

First the emergency, then the solution.....and then the Wallet and as always there's no time to think it has to be NOW.

Asteroid Attacks all over again ... the good news is we understand our solar system much better now ... so I expect we'll understand weather much better once the next Hysteria sets in ... I'm exceptionally pleased with all the much-delayed research that is finally getting done ... it's expensive maintaining weather stations in the polar regions of the world ...

A warmer Earth is less expensive ... perhaps not financially but certainly in human life ... how many people die of cold compared to people who die from heat? ... let's use human misery as our gauge ... TODAY, there are 15,000 homes without electric service, in order to drive people off their own lands:

The lack of electricity on Navajo lands can be traced, in part, back to a development ban called, "The Bennett Freeze," named for Commissioner of Indian Affairs Robert Bennett, who was in office when the ban took effect.

From 1966 through 2009, the law held that the Hopi, Navajo and federal government had to agree before any development — meaning any water lines, electricity and even fixing a roof was illegal.

"This is also the era of federal Indian policy that largely academics refer to for the assimilation era," Issac replied. "This is when they were trying to create incentives for native people to move to urban areas and assimilate into it.

-- ABC News -- April 22nd, 2024

 

[ReinyDays]

The naysayers will continue to deny climate change until the end of time. Sorry your opinion has been negated by the vast majority of people and the scientists on this planet who realize the truth. The so-called debate is long over. Try to have a nice day , I plan on it.

My opinion is based on what Atmospheric Scientists say ... the people who specialize in all things atmosphere ... as well as basic physics ... one photon, one molecule ... easy ... there's just not enough carbon dioxide molecules in 425 ppm to have any measurable effect on temperature ...

But go ahead and run away coward ... we'll be talking about molar masses next and that's way over your head ... isn't it? ...

 

[justoffal]

Asteroid Attacks all over again ... the good news is we understand our solar system much better now ... so I expect we'll understand weather much better once the next Hysteria sets in ... I'm exceptionally pleased with all the much-delayed research that is finally getting done ... it's expensive maintaining weather stations in the polar regions of the world ...

A warmer Earth is less expensive ... perhaps not financially but certainly in human life ... how many people die of cold compared to people who die from heat? ... let's use human misery as our gauge ... TODAY, there are 15,000 homes without electric service, in order to drive people off their own lands:



-- ABC News -- April 22nd, 2024

The release hundreds of millions of acres of new agriculturally active land should bode well for the world's food supply.

In the final analysis, not to be a nihilist, just a realist; We know what the Earth's eventuality will be. The Earth has at most about 1 billion years of life support left. However we have no idea whether or not that number is accurate. IMO heat accrual is notoriously unpredictable and probably al ot more rapid than they realize or are able to predict. What we do know for certain is that we're heading in that direction. Eventually there will be no actions taken by humans that can stave off what is coming.

 

[task0778]

The naysayers will continue to deny climate change until the end of time. Sorry your opinion has been negated by the vast majority of people and the scientists on this planet who realize the truth. The so-called debate is long over. Try to have a nice day , I plan on it.

Climate change is a continuing reality, nobody denies that. But there is a debate over how much human activity has to do with it and how long before there is a serious impact on human life. There is also a question of what to do about it IF a serious impact is in fact imminent and what solutions and ideas are effective in eliminating or reducing that impact. And in true democrat fashion, they have politicized the issue to the point where nobody trusts anybody. These days the truth is relative, depending on your politics.