The Daily Freakout: Solar Energy

[Old Rocks]

You do not have to have a licensed electrician to do all the work. It does have to pass electrical inspection, and a licensed electrician has to do the final hookups.

 

[Ravi]

You do not have to have a licensed electrician to do all the work. It does have to pass electrical inspection, and a licensed electrician has to do the final hookups.

Just like with solar.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why should the cost of installing panels be anymore than installing a roof?

The point is that the material and installation costs should be justified, over time, when your utility costs disappear.

HOWEVER: If this is such a great deal, the why aren't all builders offering new homes with solar panel roofs? As it is, few even offer them as an option.

Because it takes skilled labor to install and connect solar panels, and anyone can put up a roof. You have to wire the panels together and connect them to your house wiring, which requires that you use a licensed electrician in most jurisdictions.

So does installing traditional electrical systems require a licensed electrician.

But installing a roof does not. The question was why solar panels cost more to install than roofs, not why does electrical wiring cost more than walls.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You do not have to have a licensed electrician to do all the work. It does have to pass electrical inspection, and a licensed electrician has to do the final hookups.

That depends on the state and the unions, like the plumbers union that requires plumbing to be installed for waterless urinals that do not use it.

 

[HUGGY]

Because it takes skilled labor to install and connect solar panels, and anyone can put up a roof. You have to wire the panels together and connect them to your house wiring, which requires that you use a licensed electrician in most jurisdictions.

So does installing traditional electrical systems require a licensed electrician.

But installing a roof does not. The question was why solar panels cost more to install than roofs, not why does electrical wiring cost more than walls.

Not true.

 

[Ravi]

Because it takes skilled labor to install and connect solar panels, and anyone can put up a roof. You have to wire the panels together and connect them to your house wiring, which requires that you use a licensed electrician in most jurisdictions.

So does installing traditional electrical systems require a licensed electrician.

But installing a roof does not. The question was why solar panels cost more to install than roofs, not why does electrical wiring cost more than walls.

I don't know what you are smoking, but a licensed electrician doesn't have to install solar panels. An electrician has to wire the connections for a new home if you want a certificate of occupancy. Just like an electrician would be required for traditional wiring into the grid.

So the answer to octonerd's question that you gave was incorrect.

As a matter of fact you can install your own solar panels as long as you can pass your city's permitting requirements...if they exist.

 

[Samson]

And what about the cost of installation?

Buying the panels is only half the battle.

Why should the cost of installing panels be anymore than installing a roof?

The point is that the material and installation costs should be justified, over time, when your utility costs disappear.

HOWEVER: If this is such a great deal, the why aren't all builders offering new homes with solar panel roofs? As it is, few even offer them as an option.

Solar industry targets new homes - CNET News

from your source:

Putting in solar panels at the time of construction could help reduce the cost of going solar. About half the cost of a solar system currently is incurred by the panels and other equipment. The other half revolves around the installation. Installation costs are lower at the time of construction.

Yet, builders are only beginning to use solar panels.

The real problem as I see it is educating a reluctant public to understand that a home can be effectively solar powered. The government needs to beging building THEIR OWN BUILDINGS that run only off solar power.

How many solar panels are on the White House?

Governor's Mansion?

Prisons?

Army Housing?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Skull, both KissMy and I posted sites where you can buy the panels for $1.20 a watt. Differant sites and sources.

And what about the cost of installation?

Buying the panels is only half the battle.

Why should the cost of installing panels be anymore than installing a roof?

The point is that the material and installation costs should be justified, over time, when your utility costs disappear.

HOWEVER: If this is such a great deal, the why aren't all builders offering new homes with solar panel roofs? As it is, few even offer them as an option.

So does installing traditional electrical systems require a licensed electrician.

But installing a roof does not. The question was why solar panels cost more to install than roofs, not why does electrical wiring cost more than walls.

Not true.

Sure it wasn't.

Installing solar panels cost because it is skilled labor, and it involves more material and labor, than installing shingles. That is not going to go away no matter how inexpensive solar panels get.

Then you have to deal with building codes that require shingles ever other roofing materials. People want to look at a house and see what they have always seen. Maybe the real reason solar has not caught on is home owner associations prohibit them just like they prohibit the greenest method of drying clothes.

Solar panels causing some storms - Los Angeles Times

But keep blaming big oil if you want.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Because it takes skilled labor to install and connect solar panels, and anyone can put up a roof. You have to wire the panels together and connect them to your house wiring, which requires that you use a licensed electrician in most jurisdictions.

I don't know what you are smoking, but a licensed electrician doesn't have to install solar panels. An electrician has to wire the connections for a new home if you want a certificate of occupancy. Just like an electrician would be required for traditional wiring into the grid.

So the answer to octonerd's question that you gave was incorrect.

As a matter of fact you can install your own solar panels as long as you can pass your city's permitting requirements...if they exist.

Connecting them to your home wiring does, which is what I said. Maybe the problem here is that you cannot read. Even if all the electrician does is verify that you have everything hooked up correctly, he still has to be there.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Because it takes skilled labor to install and connect solar panels, and anyone can put up a roof. You have to wire the panels together and connect them to your house wiring, which requires that you use a licensed electrician in most jurisdictions.

I don't know what you are smoking, but a licensed electrician doesn't have to install solar panels. An electrician has to wire the connections for a new home if you want a certificate of occupancy. Just like an electrician would be required for traditional wiring into the grid.

So the answer to octonerd's question that you gave was incorrect.

As a matter of fact you can install your own solar panels as long as you can pass your city's permitting requirements...if they exist.

Connecting them to your home wiring does, which is what I said. Maybe the problem here is that you cannot read. Even if all the electrician does is verify that you have everything hooked up correctly, he still has to be there.

Typically solar panels are DC which require an inverter to switch to AC for home use. Inverters or micro inverters at the panel can be quite expensive and require regular maintenance depending on your system size. There is also the consideration that solar panels lose efficiency over time and require replacement as do inverters.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You do not have to have a licensed electrician to do all the work. It does have to pass electrical inspection, and a licensed electrician has to do the final hookups.

None of you have ever done any type of construction work have you?

You need to pull permits first. Then you have to assess whether putting 500 pounds or more of panels on your roof requires structural modifications to handle the extra weight. And the building inspector will probably require it anyway.

If you have to raise the angle of the panels to one steeper than the roof angle then you have to factor in the extra supports needed for wind resistance.

Installation costs will vary by region but they will not be cheap. The prices I posted before were for an installed system in my area. Everything I have looked into tells me the cost of an installed solar system is $7 - $9 per watt.

 

[Ravi]

Why should the cost of installing panels be anymore than installing a roof?

The point is that the material and installation costs should be justified, over time, when your utility costs disappear.

HOWEVER: If this is such a great deal, the why aren't all builders offering new homes with solar panel roofs? As it is, few even offer them as an option.

Solar industry targets new homes - CNET News

from your source:

Putting in solar panels at the time of construction could help reduce the cost of going solar. About half the cost of a solar system currently is incurred by the panels and other equipment. The other half revolves around the installation. Installation costs are lower at the time of construction.

Yet, builders are only beginning to use solar panels.

The real problem as I see it is educating a reluctant public to understand that a home can be effectively solar powered. The government needs to beging building THEIR OWN BUILDINGS that run only off solar power.

How many solar panels are on the White House?

Governor's Mansion?

Prisons?

Army Housing?

I agree. It isn't from lack of trying...I didn't realized this was something that had to be approved by Congress.

U.S. House of Representatives Approves Solar Project for Federal Building | Renewable Energy World

 

[Ravi]

Because it takes skilled labor to install and connect solar panels, and anyone can put up a roof. You have to wire the panels together and connect them to your house wiring, which requires that you use a licensed electrician in most jurisdictions.

I don't know what you are smoking, but a licensed electrician doesn't have to install solar panels. An electrician has to wire the connections for a new home if you want a certificate of occupancy. Just like an electrician would be required for traditional wiring into the grid.

So the answer to octonerd's question that you gave was incorrect.

As a matter of fact you can install your own solar panels as long as you can pass your city's permitting requirements...if they exist.

Connecting them to your home wiring does, which is what I said. Maybe the problem here is that you cannot read. Even if all the electrician does is verify that you have everything hooked up correctly, he still has to be there.

You are saying this is an additional cost in new home construction...having the electrician. It is not. All new construction needs an electrician no matter what the source of energy.

 

[editec]

When evaluating the REAL cost of energy one must include the cost of attain that energy (including the cost of making the equipment, or to find the sources of it) as well as the cost of the POLLUTION that using that form of energy.

And it's that second part, the cost of the pollution, where our economics is (I think) missing the real cost of hydrocarbons.

I don't believe exploiting hydrocarbons IS really a cheaper energy source. (easier to find and explot, yes)

I just think that most of their TOTAL costs have as yet not been QUANTIFIED correctly.

What is the cost, for example, of the disaster in the Gulf?

What is the cost, for example, of spewing crap into the air?

We can't quantify those costs very accurately, and mostly we don't want to quantify those costs AT ALL.

There's NO FREE lunch when it comes to producing or tapping energy, folks.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Not only that, I'm really curious exactly how many jobs will be produced.
Then compare that to all the jobs that he is personally responsible for throwing out the window.

This is part of his plan to make it illegal for us to use oil. Not only will jobs be lost, people are going to die.

If green jobs here go like they do in spain, they will COST us 2.2 jobs for every one they make, for a net loss of 120% post creation.

Energy subsidies to ALL forms of energy must be stopped, and let them stand on their own merits and flaws. Let the fittest form of energy survive. Sort of an economic/industrial bit of Darwinism.

A "conservative", referring to Darwin; how ironic.

*

"Yesterday's glory won't help us today
You wanna retire?
Get out of the way!"​

 

[skookerasbil]

When evaluating the REAL cost of energy one must include the cost of attain that energy (including the cost of making the equipment, or to find the sources of it) as well as the cost of the POLLUTION that using that form of energy.

And it's that second part, the cost of the pollution, where our economics is (I think) missing the real cost of hydrocarbons.

I don't believe exploiting hydrocarbons IS really a cheaper energy source. (easier to find and explot, yes)

I just think that most of their TOTAL costs have as yet not been QUANTIFIED correctly.

What is the cost, for example, of the disaster in the Gulf?

What is the cost, for example, of spewing crap into the air?

We can't quantify those costs very accurately, and mostly we don't want to quantify those costs AT ALL.

There's NO FREE lunch when it comes to producing or tapping energy, folks.

This is exactly the sh!t Im always talking about.............the lefty k00ks always talk about "costs" in abstracts. Its the only way for them to advance their ultimate goal of sticking it to the capitalist. Conservatives..........you'll notice..........talk about costs in real terms. Why? Because they have to...........they live in the real world. Have enormous levels of responsiblity. Cant afford to dabble in this makey uppey "what if" world that is something that is perpetual for the k00ks. Conservatives have uppermost in their minds REAL costs: costs in terms of net job loss by going to a green economy. Costs in terms of impact on the budgets of regular middle class Americans. Those costs dont matter to the k00ks.........it's their idealistic world or bust.

I'll give a perfect analogy using another example of the pronounced level of impractical in the thinking of the typical liberal..................

A few years back, there was a tragic accident on the I-95 corridor. A big rig slammed into two vans that had pulled over on the shoulder of the highway..............wiped out the whole family. Tragic? Indeed...............heartbreaking in fact. But what happened after that? Several liberal groups began to lobby for an immediate expansion effort of widening the highway to reduce the chances of that kind of accident occurring again. Would have cost the taxpayers of Ct. tens of millions. Now...........need I elaborate on the level of stupid with that kind of idea. Liberal k00ks lack a filter................its called the reason and common sense filter. It is most notably lacking in the whole energy debate. These same people never see any problems with rasing taxes. Raising taxes to them is a zero sum game. Increasing unemployment payments to 90 weeks.........or 120............or 180..........or 250. Whatever??!!!!!!!Again.......its a filter thing people..........just no ability to think on the margin. If it sounds good.............DO IT!!!!


All this talk of a green economy is awesome...........but its about 50 years pre-mature. You dont apply 1950's technology to the 21st century.

 

[Old Rocks]

You do not have to have a licensed electrician to do all the work. It does have to pass electrical inspection, and a licensed electrician has to do the final hookups.

None of you have ever done any type of construction work have you?

You need to pull permits first. Then you have to assess whether putting 500 pounds or more of panels on your roof requires structural modifications to handle the extra weight. And the building inspector will probably require it anyway.

If you have to raise the angle of the panels to one steeper than the roof angle then you have to factor in the extra supports needed for wind resistance.

Installation costs will vary by region but they will not be cheap. The prices I posted before were for an installed system in my area. Everything I have looked into tells me the cost of an installed solar system is $7 - $9 per watt.

Yes, I have worked construction. And if you hired me to put in the panels, it would cost you what you state.

But, for most home owners, if they do most of the work themselves, the cost is far lower, and they can have a 5 kw system for $10,000 or less.

No, the weight you quote is for silicon systems, and they are still expensive. The thin film systems are far lighter, and getting more so every day.

Right now, as we post, there is work going on that will boost the thin film effieciency from about 11% to 40% or better. That will make the slope of the roof less a factor. And drive down the price by a factor of four or better.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You do not have to have a licensed electrician to do all the work. It does have to pass electrical inspection, and a licensed electrician has to do the final hookups.

None of you have ever done any type of construction work have you?

You need to pull permits first. Then you have to assess whether putting 500 pounds or more of panels on your roof requires structural modifications to handle the extra weight. And the building inspector will probably require it anyway.

If you have to raise the angle of the panels to one steeper than the roof angle then you have to factor in the extra supports needed for wind resistance.

Installation costs will vary by region but they will not be cheap. The prices I posted before were for an installed system in my area. Everything I have looked into tells me the cost of an installed solar system is $7 - $9 per watt.

Yes, I have worked construction. And if you hired me to put in the panels, it would cost you what you state.

But, for most home owners, if they do most of the work themselves, the cost is far lower, and they can have a 5 kw system for $10,000 or less.

No, the weight you quote is for silicon systems, and they are still expensive. The thin film systems are far lighter, and getting more so every day.

Right now, as we post, there is work going on that will boost the thin film effieciency from about 11% to 40% or better. That will make the slope of the roof less a factor. And drive down the price by a factor of four or better.

A thin film 100 watt panel weighs 45 pounds.

A 6000 watt system would require 60 100 watt panels.

Total weight on my roof. 2700 pounds. There is not a building inspector around that would not require restructuring the roof so as to hold that much weight.

DuPont DA100-A1 : Solar Panels Direct, Powered by Nature!

 

[Old Rocks]

Because it takes skilled labor to install and connect solar panels, and anyone can put up a roof. You have to wire the panels together and connect them to your house wiring, which requires that you use a licensed electrician in most jurisdictions.

I don't know what you are smoking, but a licensed electrician doesn't have to install solar panels. An electrician has to wire the connections for a new home if you want a certificate of occupancy. Just like an electrician would be required for traditional wiring into the grid.

So the answer to octonerd's question that you gave was incorrect.

As a matter of fact you can install your own solar panels as long as you can pass your city's permitting requirements...if they exist.

Connecting them to your home wiring does, which is what I said. Maybe the problem here is that you cannot read. Even if all the electrician does is verify that you have everything hooked up correctly, he still has to be there.

Typically solar panels are DC which require an inverter to switch to AC for home use. Inverters or micro inverters at the panel can be quite expensive and require regular maintenance depending on your system size. There is also the consideration that solar panels lose efficiency over time and require replacement as do inverters.

Grid parrallel inverters are not that expensive. The least gaurantee that I have seen on a panel on the market is maintaining 90% of stated efficiency for ten years. There are many panels out there that are now over 20 years old that are still operating in the 60% to 80% efficiency of the original efficiency rating.

Advance: Solar, Hydro, Wind, Power, Inc. - Utility Grid Tie Interface Systems using Solar Panels, Wind Generators and Hydro Power Components

 

[skookerasbil]

Curious minds........................

Read HERE

James Schlesinger and Robert L. Hirsch - Getting Real on Wind and Solar - washingtonpost.com

on the feasibility of wind and solar power. Basically.........its a joke except to provide a very modest amount of our energy use. The enivornmentalist whack jobs like Old Rocks make it seem like its a no-brainer...........cost efficient and sufficient to meet Americas energy needs. Sh!t would be laughable applied in New York City/Metro area where I am. Jerkoffs like Old Rocks live in the middle of nowhere ( Oregon ) where street lights are virtually non-existent

This is the kind of stuff the k00ks hate people knowing about!!!