Zone1 The Catholic Church is the most misunderstood/vilified "thing" in the world

[Woodznutz]

Fine. So tell me where a priest and his altar servers are conversing.

Are you suggesting that they never converse?

 

[Crepitus]

The Catholic Church is the most misunderstood/vilified "thing" in the world​

Maybe if it didn't seem like it's main purpose these days was promoting the diddling of little boys and defending the perpetrators of said crimes they would have a bit better standing in public opinion.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you suggesting that they never converse?

Pretty much. Before the scandal my four brothers were altar servers. Now our parish and the priests assigned to our parish were never accused. But all my brothers noted that while priests and altar servers put on robes/vestments over their clothes in the same area, there were always other altar servers around, and time was short before and between Masses.

My daughters were altar servers after the scandal when all the churches they served had altar servers donning their robes in a separate are from the priest. Before Mass, everyone met in the vestibule where ushers, lectors, and others beside the priest were also.

Priests meet with students in classes/groups. They did when I was going to school and the same is still true today.

 

[Woodznutz]

Fine. So tell me where a priest and his altar servers are conversing.

They converse during training where relationships can develop.

who trains altar boys - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[Meriweather]

They converse during training where relationships can develop.

Well...if priests trained altar servers. They don't. A teacher or parishioner does this.

 

[ninja007]

I've gone over this dozens of times, and choose not to pursue your lie again this time. Obedience is the way of salvation.

A question that does interest me: If you are of the mind there is no need for obedience in this life (where we enter the kingdom of God), are you imagining there is no need for obedience in the next life, either? Are you thinking Christ's blood still covers any wrong-doing in the next life as well?

We are obedient because we are saved. Not to get saved.

 

[zaangalewa]

... This unscriptural doctrine directly violated the scriptures. .

Are you sure you read the trillions of tons of paper and ink Catholics (and Jews) used - including "the scriptures" - for to reach any of your two brain cells?

 

[The Irish Ram]

What you are not understanding, is the Catholic belief that Jesus redeemed all the world, and opened the way of salvation--i.e., repentance for the forgiveness of sins, which is what he called for throughout the Gospels.

I understand that you believe Christ opened the way for salvation, but that you must take it from there. I respectfully disagree because of all of the passages in the Bible that say the opposite. That anything we try to do to finish Christ's job is like filthy menstrual rags. If there is blood on the rag then you are not going to bear fruit. It's worthless.

(Ephesians 2:8-10).“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags.

 

[Meriweather]

We are obedient because we are saved. Not to get saved.

So...why are you insisting Catholics are obedient to "get saved"? How is having the perspective that Jesus opened the way of salvation to all, and people entering the way of salvation (which is obedience to the will of God) any different from your "We are obedient because we are saved--i.e., we are walking in the way of salvation that Jesus opened to all...and that walk following Jesus and the way he opened is obedience to the will of God.

Do you realize you are doing the same thing Catholics do, but have so little love that you try to term what Catholics do in a different way for the sole purpose of vilifying and denigrating them? Where is the love, where is the brotherhood?

 

[Meriweather]

I understand that you believe Christ opened the way for salvation, but that you must take it from there. I respectfully disagree because of all of the passages in the Bible that say the opposite. That anything we try to do to finish Christ's job is like filthy menstrual rags. If there is blood on the rag then you are not going to bear fruit. It's worthless.

1. Who opens the way of our salvation? Do you agree it is Jesus?

2. Who leads us on the way of salvation? Do you agree it is Jesus?

3. Following Jesus is following in his steps: The step of repentance for the forgiveness of sins; the step of discerning the will of God and following it; Baptism, Receiving the Holy Spirit, the Last Supper, Caring for the sick and the imprisoned. In other words, living salvation each day of our lives, growing strong in justice and righteousness. The way of salvation is eternal, meaning it continues on into the next life.

The way you and Ninja seem to be describing "Saved" as a golden ticket into a heavenly afterlife and nothing to see here in this life.

Catholics see redemption/salvation as a new way of living life today, of being part of God's plan to renew the face of the earth, of doing the ways of heaven here on earth, just as we will continue doing the ways of heaven when we are in heaven.

Are you saying following Christ on the way of salvation one becomes "like filthy menstrual rags"? Are you aware the original Hebrew is accusing people of throwing off good works as they would filthy menstrual rags? That what some call "good works" (i.e. abortion) God sees as filthy menstrual rags?

Without Jesus there is no "saved" and therefore no obedience to him.
Without Jesus there is no "Way of salvation" and no obedient way of life to follow.

So why this determination of throw Catholics under the bus? It's not as if God doesn't have room for those who are not Catholic; and it is not as if God in welcoming others has no room for Catholics.

 

[Woodznutz]

Well...if priests trained altar servers. They don't. A teacher or parishioner does this.

Did you watch the video?

 

[Meriweather]

Did you watch the video?

I lived the life. I was there. Do you seriously believe that altar servers are trained one at a time by a priest? They're not. Most parents (and therefore other sibs) are often in the church while training takes place as it doesn't take all that long, and it is spread over a short number of days. I knew those parishioners/teachers doing the training. Not too long ago I happened to stop by church and altar server training was taking place in one area. Still the same as it was when I was a kid.

 

[Woodznutz]

I lived the life. I was there. Do you seriously believe that altar servers are trained one at a time by a priest? They're not. Most parents (and therefore other sibs) are often in the church while training takes place as it doesn't take all that long, and it is spread over a short number of days. I knew those parishioners/teachers doing the training. Not too long ago I happened to stop by church and altar server training was taking place in one area. Still the same as it was when I was a kid.

You seem to be saying that young boys never have any personal contact with priests. I wonder how all those who have come forward were lured into those activities with priests if they never had any social or religious contact with them beforehand.

 

[Meriweather]

You seem to be saying that young boys never have any personal contact with priests. I wonder how all those who have come forward were lured into those activities with priests if they never had any social or religious contact with them beforehand.

I'm not saying that at all. You made a statement that priests were in contact with altar servers and choir members. So, I asked you when this took place. (I was especially interested in the choir members contact.) In all my years as a Catholic, and so many of them around altar servers, I wondered how it could have taken place, even back in the day I was a kid.

In the normal way of things, it couldn't have...so I did some research on child predators. The predator targets the child and draw them into a time and place where there are no other people are around. Then they go through what has become known as the "grooming" process. Note the children targeted have something missing in their lives that the groomer moves in to take advantage of.

So...what would be the timing for a pedophile priest? I'm not even sure if this is it, but if a priest were to target a child, it would almost have to be during morning weekday mass--that the child could get to on his own, no parent waiting. During Sunday Masses, too many people around and also the preparation for the next Mass. What could start out as friendly words after the morning Mass, over time, could gain the child's trust. And here we have the real injury. The child believes someone actually understands him and wants him around, which means everything to a lonely child no one else is giving much attention. Instead, he is prey of the someone even more selfish than those who are not providing him with needed attention.

Anyone who has studied pedophilia will tell you Catholic priests are not the big problem. Families are the biggest problem, teachers, neighbors. Who focuses attention on priests? The lawyers, because the Church has money the lawyers want. Ever see an attorney's ad on TV telling those who were molested by family members or neighbors to come see them? Attorneys go after the money. Who cares about a poor kid from a poor family? Juries aren't going to rob schools/taxpayers to pay large settlements, but non-Catholic juries will be happy to do this to the Catholic Church.

Despite all this, I am still grateful the light was targeted on Catholic priests, even though their percentage is among the smallest. Catholic priest percentage should be zero. With the light shining somewhere (and it should have been shining just as brightly on public schools) child sex abuse came to the forefront in society.

 

[Woodznutz]

I'm not saying that at all. You made a statement that priests were in contact with altar servers and choir members. So, I asked you when this took place. (I was especially interested in the choir members contact.) In all my years as a Catholic, and so many of them around altar servers, I wondered how it could have taken place, even back in the day I was a kid.

In the normal way of things, it couldn't have...so I did some research on child predators. The predator targets the child and draw them into a time and place where there are no other people are around. Then they go through what has become known as the "grooming" process. Note the children targeted have something missing in their lives that the groomer moves in to take advantage of.

So...what would be the timing for a pedophile priest? I'm not even sure if this is it, but if a priest were to target a child, it would almost have to be during morning weekday mass--that the child could get to on his own, no parent waiting. During Sunday Masses, too many people around and also the preparation for the next Mass. What could start out as friendly words after the morning Mass, over time, could gain the child's trust. And here we have the real injury. The child believes someone actually understands him and wants him around, which means everything to a lonely child no one else is giving much attention. Instead, he is prey of the someone even more selfish than those who are not providing him with needed attention.

Anyone who has studied pedophilia will tell you Catholic priests are not the big problem. Families are the biggest problem, teachers, neighbors. Who focuses attention on priests? The lawyers, because the Church has money the lawyers want. Ever see an attorney's ad on TV telling those who were molested by family members or neighbors to come see them? Attorneys go after the money. Who cares about a poor kid from a poor family? Juries aren't going to rob schools/taxpayers to pay large settlements, but non-Catholic juries will be happy to do this to the Catholic Church.

Despite all this, I am still grateful the light was targeted on Catholic priests, even though their percentage is among the smallest. Catholic priest percentage should be zero. With the light shining somewhere (and it should have been shining just as brightly on public schools) child sex abuse came to the forefront in society.

It's the 'grooming' over time that leads to sexual contact that I'm referring to.

 

[1miseryindex]

Pretty much. Before the scandal my four brothers were altar servers. Now our parish and the priests assigned to our parish were never accused. But all my brothers noted that while priests and altar servers put on robes/vestments over their clothes in the same area, there were always other altar servers around, and time was short before and between Masses.

My daughters were altar servers after the scandal when all the churches they served had altar servers donning their robes in a separate are from the priest. Before Mass, everyone met in the vestibule where ushers, lectors, and others beside the priest were also.

Priests meet with students in classes/groups. They did when I was going to school and the same is still true today.

sad how a few perverts make it difficult for everyone

 

[Woodznutz]

sad how a few perverts make it difficult for everyone

More than a few I'm afraid.

Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[1miseryindex]

Do you realize you are doing the same thing Catholics do, but have so little love that you try to term what Catholics do in a different way for the sole purpose of vilifying and denigrating them? Where is the love, where is the brotherhood?

I didn't get your first paragraph

But as to this...

We Catholics have had that same thought for centuries, ever since Luther divided the Seamless Church, which by the way, is still seamless but it LOOKS like .. and in many ways is.. divided.

In John chapter 17 right b4 the Crucifixion Jesus prayed for.. what?

UNITY

But do we have it? No, because of Luther and all the protestants who came after him

we don't have unity. And the protestants want US --Catholics--to drop our objective TRUTH

so as to be in unity with them...(!) which Vatican II attempted to do. But things have gone way too far. Now the Vatican is apparently trying to force Catholics to care more about the environment (fake climate change issue), accept gay "marriage"----------------etc

 

[1miseryindex]

More than a few I'm afraid.

Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

why don't you ever speak up against MARRIED men who molest children, even their own flesh and blood children?
There are something like 4 to 5 TIMES as many of them as there are offending clergy


oh... you wouldn't get any applause from the Catholic haters?

so sad

 

[1miseryindex]

It's the 'grooming' over time that leads to sexual contact that I'm referring to.

Liberals are obsessed with sex