The case for Universal Healthcare

[Mr.Fitnah]

Should only the rich receive the best healthcare?

Should you stop letting Old Rocks sodomize you?

1. Personal insult

Should only the rich receive the best healthcare?

People who can pay should get it.Pay your own bills , dont put them one the next generation.

 

[Jon]

You are right.

We should abolish Medicare and the VA.

No more government healthcare. It should be evey man for himself.

And if a single mother gets cancer and can't pay her health insurance permium, that just too bad for her and her kids.

Now you're thinking. Survival of the fittest. Kill off the weak, and shit won't cost so much for the rest of us.

You truely are the heart and soul of the Republican Party.

Odd, since I have never voted Republican in my life.

 

[Chris]

Should you stop letting Old Rocks sodomize you?

1. Personal insult

Should only the rich receive the best healthcare?

People who can pay should get it.Pay your own bills , dont put them one the next generation.

And if you are a single mother with three kids who is hospitalized with cancer, how do you "pay your bills"?

 

[elvis]

1. Personal insult

Should only the rich receive the best healthcare?

People who can pay should get it.Pay your own bills , dont put them one the next generation.

And if you are a single mother with three kids who is hospitalized with cancer, how do you "pay your bills."

Nope, we only say that to you, shitstain.

 

[txlonghorn]

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive
Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money.

Interesting numbers, where did they come from?

 

[Chris]

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive
Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money.

Interesting numbers, where did they come from?

The link is provided, although most of these numbers I have seen before. You can google any of these individually and check it out.

 

[txlonghorn]

Tell you what excites me about our proposed new health care system, it's that OLD people will die faster. Ted Kennedy doesn't stand a chance. Oh wait, he doesn't count. He gets the REAL healthcare plan. I guess we'll just have to get used to a world with out our grand old icons who we revere and love but refuse to treat for health problems.

Another thing I think is great is that we're going to give FREE healthcare to every illegal immigrant who crosses our borders. Isn't that great?!?!?! Just imagine all the $3 per day workers we'll get to hire when they get wind that we're gonna take care of their illnesses for free!!!! HOT DAMN!!! This is awesome!!!

 

[Chris]

This discussion reminds me of a friend of mine's great post...

For Republicans, America is a platform for individual fulfillment. Here is the catch: individual is conceived in the narrowest possible terms. Any notion of "The Public" is seen as "Socialism" (-socialism is anything the government does for the non-wealthy). The Free Market will fix New Orleans levees. The Free Market will effectively control the amount of derivative-based risk it assumes. The Free Market will get us off imported petroleum in the 70s (rather than spending decades making terrorists stronger). The Free Market will keep rivers clean. The Free Market will make Health Care efficient. The Free Market won't bribe Washington in order to increase it's profit margin. We don't need to worry about "The Public Good". Individual Selfishness, driven only by short term profit, is a utopian reflex.

 

[txlonghorn]

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive
Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money.

Interesting numbers, where did they come from?

The link is provided, although most of these numbers I have seen before. You can google any of these individually and check it out.

Yeah, I got that link, but where did THEY get the numbers from? The Green Party? Or the CT Caucus of Democrats? Or did the doctors do this research back in 1999 when that idea was actually presented to the ASGP? I'm just curious about numbers that aren't a decade old.

 

[Chris]

Interesting numbers, where did they come from?

The link is provided, although most of these numbers I have seen before. You can google any of these individually and check it out.

Yeah, I got that link, but where did THEY get the numbers from? The Green Party? Or the CT Caucus of Democrats? Or did the doctors do this research back in 1999 when that idea was actually presented to the ASGP? I'm just curious about numbers that aren't a decade old.

The numbers are worst now.

Look it up.

 

[Oddball]

Looks like we have more trouble with reading for comprehension.

 

[Chris]

Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada (see graph)

Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States. As a result the poor and minorities have poorer health than the wealthy and the whites.

Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%

Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

 

[elvis]

Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US


Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.


Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada (see graph)


Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States. As a result the poor and minorities have poorer health than the wealthy and the whites.


Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%


Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

so how long before Old Roxy moves in?

 

[Darkwind]

Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

Not a recommended method of keeping costs down is it? Isn't that one of the main thrusts about getting everyone on the healthcare dole? Gotta keep costs down....

Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

Well, that is just plain BS. At best, we have 11.75% of the population without health insurance, or roughly 47 million. All according to the left. Of those 47 million, nearly 17 million are illegals who do not deserve any healthcare from this country. Period. So that leaves roughly 30 million or 7.5% of the population. Of those, roughly 10 million choose....now read this carefully.....CHOOSE....to go without healthcare because they would rather spend the money on other things. We are now down to 20 million, slightly more then 5%. Of that 5%, approximately 1% of them don't need any insurance as they are rich enough to pay for any medical expense that life can throw at them. Which leaves us with 4% of the population or 16 million people. We should be ursuping 20% of our GDP for just 4% of the population? I think not.

Fact Three: Comparisons of Difficulties Accessing Care Are Shown To Be Greater In The US Than Canada (see graph)

If you want to compare Canada to the US, you have to compare ALL OF IT. That includes the rationing.

Fact Four: Access to health care is directly related to income and race in the United States. As a result the poor and minorities have poorer health than the wealthy and the whites.

I call BS on this. Access to healthcare is available to everyone, regardless of income or race. No hospital is permitted to turn a patient away, period.

Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%

You should get your doctor to cut down the mg dosage of your meds.....

Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

Utter BS. No one is denied healthcare in this country regardless of ability to pay.

 

[Oddball]

Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

Well, that is just plain BS. At best, we have 11.75% of the population without health insurance, or roughly 47 million. All according to the left. Of those 47 million, nearly 17 million are illegals who do not deserve any healthcare from this country. Period. So that leaves roughly 30 million or 7.5% of the population. Of those, roughly 10 million choose....now read this carefully.....CHOOSE....to go without healthcare because they would rather spend the money on other things. We are now down to 20 million, slightly more then 5%. Of that 5%, approximately 1% of them don't need any insurance as they are rich enough to pay for any medical expense that life can throw at them. Which leaves us with 4% of the population or 16 million people. We should be ursuping 20% of our GDP for just 4% of the population? I think not.If you want to compare Canada to the US, you have to compare ALL OF IT. That includes the rationing.I call BS on this. Access to healthcare is available to everyone, regardless of income or race. No hospital is permitted to turn a patient away, period.

You forgot the percentage who qualify for Medicare/Medicaid and haven't yet applied for it.

 

[Darkwind]

Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

Well, that is just plain BS. At best, we have 11.75% of the population without health insurance, or roughly 47 million. All according to the left. Of those 47 million, nearly 17 million are illegals who do not deserve any healthcare from this country. Period. So that leaves roughly 30 million or 7.5% of the population. Of those, roughly 10 million choose....now read this carefully.....CHOOSE....to go without healthcare because they would rather spend the money on other things. We are now down to 20 million, slightly more then 5%. Of that 5%, approximately 1% of them don't need any insurance as they are rich enough to pay for any medical expense that life can throw at them. Which leaves us with 4% of the population or 16 million people. We should be ursuping 20% of our GDP for just 4% of the population? I think not.If you want to compare Canada to the US, you have to compare ALL OF IT. That includes the rationing.I call BS on this. Access to healthcare is available to everyone, regardless of income or race. No hospital is permitted to turn a patient away, period.

You forgot the percentage who qualify for Medicare/Medicaid and haven't yet applied for it.

True....

 

[Chris]

Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

Not a recommended method of keeping costs down is it? Isn't that one of the main thrusts about getting everyone on the healthcare dole? Gotta keep costs down....

Fact Two: Around 30% of Americans have problem accessing health care due to payment problems or access to care, far more than any other industrialized country. About 17% of our population is without health insurance. About 75% of ill uninsured people have trouble accessing/paying for health care.

Well, that is just plain BS. At best, we have 11.75% of the population without health insurance, or roughly 47 million. All according to the left. Of those 47 million, nearly 17 million are illegals who do not deserve any healthcare from this country. Period. So that leaves roughly 30 million or 7.5% of the population. Of those, roughly 10 million choose....now read this carefully.....CHOOSE....to go without healthcare because they would rather spend the money on other things. We are now down to 20 million, slightly more then 5%. Of that 5%, approximately 1% of them don't need any insurance as they are rich enough to pay for any medical expense that life can throw at them. Which leaves us with 4% of the population or 16 million people. We should be ursuping 20% of our GDP for just 4% of the population? I think not.If you want to compare Canada to the US, you have to compare ALL OF IT. That includes the rationing.I call BS on this. Access to healthcare is available to everyone, regardless of income or race. No hospital is permitted to turn a patient away, period.

Fact Five: There would be no lines under a universal health care system in the United States because we have about a 30% oversupply of medical equipment and surgeons, whereas demand would increase about 15%

You should get your doctor to cut down the mg dosage of your meds.....

Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

Utter BS. No one is denied healthcare in this country regardless of ability to pay.

No one is denied healthcare in this country regardless of ability to pay?

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,haaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Darkwind]

Fact One: Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US

Not a recommended method of keeping costs down is it? Isn't that one of the main thrusts about getting everyone on the healthcare dole? Gotta keep costs down....

Well, that is just plain BS. At best, we have 11.75% of the population without health insurance, or roughly 47 million. All according to the left. Of those 47 million, nearly 17 million are illegals who do not deserve any healthcare from this country. Period. So that leaves roughly 30 million or 7.5% of the population. Of those, roughly 10 million choose....now read this carefully.....CHOOSE....to go without healthcare because they would rather spend the money on other things. We are now down to 20 million, slightly more then 5%. Of that 5%, approximately 1% of them don't need any insurance as they are rich enough to pay for any medical expense that life can throw at them. Which leaves us with 4% of the population or 16 million people. We should be ursuping 20% of our GDP for just 4% of the population? I think not.If you want to compare Canada to the US, you have to compare ALL OF IT. That includes the rationing.I call BS on this. Access to healthcare is available to everyone, regardless of income or race. No hospital is permitted to turn a patient away, period. You should get your doctor to cut down the mg dosage of your meds.....

Conclusion: The US denies access to health care based on the ability to pay. Under a universal health care system all would access care. There would be no lines as in other industrialized countries due to the oversupply in our providers and infrastructure, and the willingness/ability of the United States to spend more on health care than other industrialized nations.

The Case for Universal Health Care in the United States

Utter BS. No one is denied healthcare in this country regardless of ability to pay.

No one is denied healthcare in this country regardless of ability to pay?

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,haaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you should get that particular medication cut from your pill box.

 

[Maple]

Obama's plan: Your insurance would change
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10 hours, 16 minutes ago

At a town hall meeting held yesterday to reassure the public that his health care reform plan was nothing to be afraid of, President Obama blamed Republicans for fear-mongering, saying, "These folks need to stop scaring everybody. Nobody is talking about forcing you to change your plans."

Obama isn't talking about forcing Americans to change their health care plans, which is why Republicans have to -- because that is exactly what the Democrats' proposals would do.

In his effort to comfort us, the President released eight goals for his health care reform. Contrary to his reassurances, these goals, if achieved, would radically change all health insurance offered in the United States.


Click for Editorials & Op-EdsThe cost of meeting those mandates would cause profound and widespread changes. Small and mid-sized businesses almost certainly would drop coverage in droves.

So even though Obama might not be "talking about forcing you to change your plans," he is proposing changes that would fundamentally change your health care plan. That's not fear-mongering. That's a fact.

YOUR COMMENTS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fact:
Factoring out car crashes and homicides, the US has the highest life expectancy than all western nations. Robert Ohsfeldt/John Schneider of Texas A&M and Univ of Iowa Study

Fact:
Heritage Foundation found that breast cancer mortality in Germany is 52% higher than US, the UK is 88% higher. Prostrate Cancer is 604% higher in UK and 457% in Norway. Canada is 9% higher for breast cancer and 184% higher for prostrate cancer, and 10% higher for colon cancer.

Fact:
ABC News, the Kaiser Family Foundation, and USA today poll found that 89% of Americans were happy with their own health care. Recent polls in Germany, Australia, Britain, Canada, and New Zealand show that more than 70% of people believe their systems need a "complete rebuilding" or "fundalmental change".

Fact:
According to the CBO's June O'Neill, the estimated 47 million "uninsured" has 20 million that can afford but "chose" not to pay for insurance. Most of the other 27 million are single and under 35 with a many as a third as illegal aliens.

Those are facts backed up by sources that you can google and educate yourself with. Facts you cannot run from.
- Kyle, Bedford

I thought this was an interesting article and thought I would share it.

 

[MadDog]

Chris, would you make up your mind please. In another thread, you said that the US was the only industrialized country without a single payer system. Then you said it was the only western democracy without a single payer system.

But in this thread, you quote the fact that Germany has a multiple payer system. And I pointed out to you that Germany and the US are not alone.

So make up your mind. At least make your fabrications a little more consistent.