The 50 most developed countries in the world and Universal Healthcare.

[Rustic]

Universal health care is coming to the US. It's just a matter of time.

You know why?

Because the GOP has never offered a comprehensive solution to skyrocketing health care costs.

That's right, over 50% of Americans support Universal Healthcare. Universal Healthcare is coming to the United States whether these anti-healthcare types like it or not.

That's wrong.

Actually, 70 percent of Americans support Medicare for all.

Lol
Where did you get that number from? And even if it was true what about the millions of Americans that want no part of it?

You will not find a single real conservative that wants any part a Medicare for all, you stupid ass motherfucker... shut the fuck up

Richard Nixon supported Universal Healthcare!

That’s how fucked up it is that’s for sure

 

[Redfish]

70% probably support free booze too. Everyone likes free stuff, but the hard cold truth is that nothing is free. Do you really want your medical care decided by a marginally intelligent GS5 sitting in a cubicle in bangla desh? Because that's what you are asking for, and if you don't think the admin of it would be outsourced you are dumber than I thought.

Can you show me which UHC countries outsource their health care decisions to Bangladesh?


Thanks.

can you tell me which of those countries have 330,000,000 people and 20 million illegals? Comparing the US to Norway is like comparing a mouse to an elephant.

What does the size of the population have to do with anything?

Man, that's one of the lamest dodges I've ever seen!

It has everything to do with it. We are a very diverse country, the Scandinavian countries are like big extended families, the all look the same, think the same and have the same value systems.

you want UHC because you think it will be free to you, IT WONT be FREE. the Scandinavians pay 55-70% in income taxes and everyone pays it, unlike here where 50% pay nothing. And if you ask them, or Canadians, or brits about their UHC they will tell you that they don't like it because they have to wait for treatment and what treatment they get is determined by the government. Ask Canadians why they come to the US with any serious medical conditions, ask why 30% of the patients at Mayo clinic are Canadians.

Europeans especially Scandinavians have progressive tax rates where the rich pay far more in tax than those in the middle class and lower class. Filthy Rich people still live in Sweden and have plenty of luxury despite the heavy tax rates they pay. Just look at the members of the rock band Abba. They all still live in Sweden despite the tax rates they pay.

In the United States, the rich don't like the idea of Universal Health care because it means their tax rates may go from 37% to 70%. 70% was the rate the rich were paying back in the 1970s and 1960s. When IKE was President the rich were paying 80% in tax.

no one ever paid 60-70% in the 60s and 70s, there were exemptions and deductions that don't exist today.

 

[Redfish]

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care


Crossing the Border for Care
Frustrated by long waits, some Canadians are heading to the U.S. for medical treatment.



Why do they come here if it’s so good in Canada ? Are you just not going to answer? Name a country and people from that country come here to receive treatment for cancer and major illnesses. Why?

Its the assumption that the wealthiest country in the world has the best healthcare. The same assumption that drives people to go the hospital as best in the country. The reality though is much different.

Were not talking about the few with money who choose to travel because they believe something is better. Were talking about average life expectancy in each country and which countries are providing their citizens with Universal Healthcare. Most Europeans do not go to America to get healthcare. They stay in their countries and on average live longer than Americans. That last fact is by FAR the most relevant.

Let me ask you this:

Timely Medical | Timely Surgery at Affordable Prices

This is a company. It's a company operating out of Canada. The entire purpose of this company, is to setup patient, primarily in Canada, with doctors and hospitals in the US.

They charge money, obviously to provide this service.
This is an additional charge to the cost of getting whatever treatment or surgery they get in the US.

The company was started by a Canadian doctor, who was fed up watching patients die while waiting.

So my question to you is this.....

Canada has universal care, that is "free". Please explain to me how Timely medical can find enough consistent flow of customers, willing to pay thousands of dollars for surgery in the US, and to pay them to set them up for that surgery.... if those same customers can all get surgery for 'free'?

If government run health care is so great in Canada, how can this company started by a Canadian doctor, end up with thousands of customers every year willing to pay for health care? How can they find enough people willing to spend thousands of dollar for health care, to escape their Canadian system if it is so great?

Can you explain that to me?

Don't have to. These little individual examples, whether they are true or not, are irrelevant. What matters is the overall averages on life expectancy and the countries that provide Universal Healthcare. Look FRANCE, GERMANY, SWEDEN, NORWAY, ITALY etc. Most people in the top 50 most developed countries in the world stay in their own countries when it comes to healthcare. At least 34 of those countries citizens live longer than Americans on average. One's personal experience, or some off hand example will not change that reality.

France, where doctors went on strike for weeks, and people were left without care, not to mention people died of heat stroke in hospitals during a heat wave years back.

Germany, has a system of private insurance, the nearly all people are part of.

Moreover, nearly all those countries have double our tax rate.

Which is more expensive: Current insurance premiums, or a 50% tax rate on the middle class?

And yes, the fact is, if you want to support your argument, then you do have to explain why people come from all over the world from their 'free health care' systems, to pay for health care here.

If you can't, then whether you admit it, or believe it, you have undeniably lost the argument that free government care is better.

SOME PEOPLE come to the United States for healthcare. Some. Its a tiny percentage and not proof that the United States healthcare system is better.

Healthcare cost in Europe are about 1/2 to 2/3s of what they are in the United States. The Quality is better because the people there live longer. Everyone there is provided for. Its the three BIG WINS!

The United States can get the taxes it needs for Universal Healthcare from the top 20% of income earners who have 80% of the wealth in the country. Capital Gains, Property, Estate and other things besides just income will need to see increased tax rates. The Middle Class will only be lightly effected if at all by the increased tax rates. The lower class and the poor won't have to pay anything.

bullshit. have you been to any European countries? I have. The quality is NOT better.

 

[Redfish]

Explain how our ranking in life expectancy is related to our health care system?

Healthcare saves lives which naturally increases the average life expectancy in a country.

Except it doesn't work that way. The reason American life expectancy is less than many of our counterparts is we have higher rates of automobile fatalities, we have higher rates of death due to poor eating habits and lack of exercise (Americans are fat and lazy) and we have higher rates of drug related deaths. None of that has anything to do with our health care system. It has to do with poor cultural habits.

With Universal Healthcare, people would have better access to doctors, nurses and others that could give advise and help with the conditions you describe. It would have a dramatic effect on U.S. life expectancy. The reason U.S. life expectancy is low, is that it gets brought down by those who live in poverty or near the poverty level and don't have access to low cost quality food and healthcare. It makes a huge differences in the averages and is why the United States continues to lag behind so many other countries in the developed world in life expectancy.

The evidence is obvious. Universal Healthcare would benefit millions of people in the lower class and in poverty in the United States. It would improve U.S. life expectancy and standard of living. Its the right, moral thing to do for people and the country as a whole will benefit. Yet, because some people are blinded by outdated ideology, they will not support the common sense thing to do to help people.

And when it bankrupts the country, like it did Greece, and you see hundreds of people sitting on the sidewalk outside their closed 'free' healthcare clinic.... do explain how much it benefited them.

The healthcare system in Greece is not what brought that country down. Even if it was, it would be a minor exception. By the way, people in Greece live longer than people in the United States. Everyone in Greece has Healthcare. GREECE also spends less than half of what the United States does on healthcare as a percentage of annual GDP.

LOL, in Greece the people do all their business in cash because any money in a bank is taxed by the government. Have you heard of any major medical advances coming out of Greece? your ignorance is amazing.

 

[sparky]

I’m for universal health care. So yes, I would help.

You don’t know what universal care is. Know what you’re talking about before trying to upend an extremely complex system with many moving parts that will have drastic consequences.

I know what it is, I lived in Canada for a while.

Medicare for all is socialized medicine. Universal just mean everyone is to be covered. Either through mandate requiring purchase of private insurance, or single payer, or a mix. For Medicare for all to work, you have to abolish private insurance, or force all doctors to accept the single payer method, then you’d get a 2 tier system. You could be universal and free market like the Swiss, which many rubes who don’t know the difference will point to the Swiss and say “see socialized medicine works great in that universal system.”

Then there's forcing all of the medical community under the insurance cabal umbrella , which folks during these debates conveniently forget.

~S~

There’s that too, why doesn’t anyone ever ask why it is we seem to have to get insurance through our employer?

IIrc, we were warned about that back when it was legislated.

But i digress , because in the broader perspective the general dislike of universal HC orbits the monopolization of it

Well what's the dif, should the insurance cabal achieve the same goal? The consumer bows to an all powerful entity either way

Ask why we've a pandemic of closing ER's nationwide ,transforming into 'wellness clinics'. One is captive to JACHO, the other is not.

This essentially equates to the same 'death board' fear of socialized control via private sector's monopolized ability to sway legislation their way

~S~

 

[Flash]

Which restaurant would you rather go to?

1. An establishment that wanted your business so that they could make money

2. An establishment run by government bureaucrats that didn't give a shit if you showed up or not

Which one do you think you would get the better food?

This is not a trick question.

What if I don’t have any money?

Go earn the money to pay for your meal then you won't be hungry.

We don’t need universal healthcare for people like you and me.

If money is no object I’ll go to the most expensive restaurant

You wouldn't want to eat at a government run restaurant especially if they have a near monopoly. You would have the choice between mush and gruel and it would free in the restaurant but your taxes would go up 20%.

It is not my responsibility to pay other people's bills. It is their responsibility.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Why?

Because we're smarter than the rest of the world.

The United States ranks 34th in the world in terms of Life Expectancy. That's despite the fact that the United States spend more on healthcare than any country in the world. Yet despite all that spending, the United States is not taking care of all of its citizens like the rest of the world is and essentially has a different system of care for those that are rich vs lower class. HOW IS THAT SMART?

Wow, you clowns always bring out that debunked talking point.

Get back to Me when they compare apples to apples. We are so diverse as a nation that life expectancy really isn't a viable metric of healthcare. In fact, it is a testament to how good our health services are that we rank that high at all.

How about you try being honest here. You're not talking about healthcare, your talking about other people picking up the tab for your own life.

Sure, why should a lowerclass person be forced to spend all their savings and go into debt just because they get sick? Is that good for the economy? Nope.

Life Expectancy is the most relevant metric that tells the truth about healthcare.

In biology, Diversity is the key to health and survival. Given how diverse the United States is, it should have the highest life expectancy in the world.

Life Expectancy is the most relevant metric that tells the truth about healthcare.
bullshit,you can have the best healthcare there is but if you dont take care of your self what good did it do you?...many Americans have access to great healthcare but dont take great care of themselves....factors for life expectancy has more to do with how you take care of yourself then if you have good healthcare...

Most of the citizens of developed countries have similar lifestyles. Quality of healthcare and access to it is a more important factor when comparing life expectancy among developed countries.

Finally, even if their healthcare is at best equal to ours in quality, at least they provide it to everyone. There is very little evidence to support that Europeans have significantly worse quality healthcare. On average they live longer. Their healthcare quality is either equal too or better than that of the United States. Plus they provide it to all their citizens. They also spend less on healthcare than the United States does.

No they don't.
How many European countries have you been to? How many homes..er...excuse me...tiny flats have you been in?
The average home size in America is over 2000 sq ft. That would be cavernous anywhere in Europe.
Most starter flats are as low as 400sq ft, then oh boy...you get to move up to 600 - 800.
Most of Europe is also exceptionally crowded.
Life expectancy??
Once again the clueless reigns. Americans eat shit.
We have, by far, the worst eating habits in the modern world.
I bet you didn't know that just under 70 cents of every dollar spent for healthcare in America is a food related illness. Heart conditions/Diabetes/arterial diseases/many cancers are directly related to a sedentary lifestyle with horrendously poor diets.
Indeed. Only in America can a person be both obese and malnourished.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Universal health care is coming to the US. It's just a matter of time.

You know why?

Because the GOP has never offered a comprehensive solution to skyrocketing health care costs.

That's right, over 50% of Americans support Universal Healthcare. Universal Healthcare is coming to the United States whether these anti-healthcare types like it or not.

That's wrong. Over 50% of Americans will give approval when you say, "Should healthcare be a right?" When you switch from warm, fuzzy, vague emotions to facts and tell them that it would require higher taxes, or that they personally might not be able to choose to stay with their private insurance, suddenly the approval rates plummet.

Which begs the question: If it's so wonderful, and so many people want it, how come you have to lie to them to get them to agree?

No one is being untruthful. Universal Healthcare is one the way to the U.S.A.. Support is rising. The people who will be paying the most taxes for it are in the top 20% of income earners, Not the majority where 80% of America lives. Universal Healthcare is the trend for the most developed countries in the world. 45 of the 50 most developed countries have Universal Healthcare. The United States is the oddball in that group along with Cyprus, U.A.E., Bahrain, and Qatar that does not provide Universal Healthcare.

When you chase most of the top 20% income earners out of the country, then who has to pick up the tab?

Are The Rich Fleeing New York Over SALT?

Cuomo says things will only get worse as the richest New Yorkers change their primary residence to avoid the taxes. And he says it wouldn’t take many people leaving the state to have a big effect on its budget.

France lost the most millionaires last year | Daily Mail Online

There is a surge of millionaires moving around countries with France losing the most wealthy people.
Some 82,000 people who have more than $1 million in assets left their home countries last year - 18,000 more than in 2015, according to the 2017 Global Wealth Review.

Detroit at one time was the MOTOR CITY CAPITAL of the world, it was the richest city, but with the liberal policies of FREE SHIT for those too lazy to get off their liberal lazy ass, most people who had money moved out leaving the shit for brains who wanted FREE SHIT without paying for it. It happens all the time. Dumbasses like you, will be a slave to the Dictator left like it is in Venezuela, who also provided FREE healthcare to their citizens, now they are starving but you know better...What a fucking moron..

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

That's wrong.

Actually, 70 percent of Americans support Medicare for all.

70% probably support free booze too. Everyone likes free stuff, but the hard cold truth is that nothing is free. Do you really want your medical care decided by a marginally intelligent GS5 sitting in a cubicle in bangla desh? Because that's what you are asking for, and if you don't think the admin of it would be outsourced you are dumber than I thought.

Can you show me which UHC countries outsource their health care decisions to Bangladesh?


Thanks.

can you tell me which of those countries have 330,000,000 people and 20 million illegals? Comparing the US to Norway is like comparing a mouse to an elephant.

Well, then lets compare the 300,000,000 million people who live in Germany, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom and France to the United States. Would you consider that fair?

How many people die from automobile accidents in the US? How many in all those other countries whose people get around by train and such? How many people die from gun shots, or overdoses of heroine that come across the southern border? yeah, make sure not to put those statistics into your "Europeans live longer bullshit"..When you have diseased illegal hordes crossing the border that doesnt help your cause, when they take up plenty of healthcare resources that normally would go to a US citizen.

 

[Redfish]

Actually, 70 percent of Americans support Medicare for all.

70% probably support free booze too. Everyone likes free stuff, but the hard cold truth is that nothing is free. Do you really want your medical care decided by a marginally intelligent GS5 sitting in a cubicle in bangla desh? Because that's what you are asking for, and if you don't think the admin of it would be outsourced you are dumber than I thought.

Can you show me which UHC countries outsource their health care decisions to Bangladesh?


Thanks.

can you tell me which of those countries have 330,000,000 people and 20 million illegals? Comparing the US to Norway is like comparing a mouse to an elephant.

Well, then lets compare the 300,000,000 million people who live in Germany, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom and France to the United States. Would you consider that fair?

How many people die from automobile accidents in the US? How many in all those other countries whose people get around by train and such? How many people die from gun shots, or overdoses of heroine that come across the southern border? yeah, make sure not to put those statistics into your "Europeans live longer bullshit"..When you have diseased illegal hordes crossing the border that doesnt help your cause, when they take up plenty of healthcare resources that normally would go to a US citizen.

If we take abortion deaths out of the US statistics we are near or at the top.

 

[Taz]

70% probably support free booze too. Everyone likes free stuff, but the hard cold truth is that nothing is free. Do you really want your medical care decided by a marginally intelligent GS5 sitting in a cubicle in bangla desh? Because that's what you are asking for, and if you don't think the admin of it would be outsourced you are dumber than I thought.

Can you show me which UHC countries outsource their health care decisions to Bangladesh?


Thanks.

can you tell me which of those countries have 330,000,000 people and 20 million illegals? Comparing the US to Norway is like comparing a mouse to an elephant.

Well, then lets compare the 300,000,000 million people who live in Germany, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom and France to the United States. Would you consider that fair?

How many people die from automobile accidents in the US? How many in all those other countries whose people get around by train and such? How many people die from gun shots, or overdoses of heroine that come across the southern border? yeah, make sure not to put those statistics into your "Europeans live longer bullshit"..When you have diseased illegal hordes crossing the border that doesnt help your cause, when they take up plenty of healthcare resources that normally would go to a US citizen.

If we take abortion deaths out of the US statistics we are near or at the top.

Abortions don’t count as a death, numbnuts.

 

[danielpalos]

You are not a "developed" country if you have a system where you steal the money made by some people and use it to pay the health care bills of other people that didn't earn the money.

That is state sponsored thievery.

Wrong, because people EARN money from the MARKET! The MARKET decides your salary and how much your house is worth, NOT you. You did not create the market, you were born into it. Those who benefit most from the market are required to pay a higher percentage of their earnings in taxes in order to help build and sustain the market. The market needs to be defended from foreign invasion and it needs law and order to operate efficiently which is provided by a government.

Tell you what, move to Somalia where there is no government to "steal your earnings" and see how you like it.

You are confused Moon Bat.

I earned money because I fucking worked for a living. It is morally wrong for the oppressive government to steal that money from me and give it to some filthy ass welfare queen or illegal. You know, a ghetto Democrat voter.

Moon Bats like you have a hard time understanding things like that, don't you?

Instead of me going to Somalia to get lesser government how about you getting your fat commie ass down to Venezuela to how that socialism is working out? Send us a card.

How about this Moon Bat. I'll pay my bills and you pay yours. Isn't that fair or are you some greedy asshole who thinks that you have the right to demand that I pay your bills simply because you are alive?

Fuck socialism. Fuck universal health care. Fuck greedy worthless Moon Bats that are too sorry to pay for their own health care.

If you worked In the United States, then you were either employed by someone or if you had your own business it was dependent on people buying your services or products. Either way, your earnings came from THE MARKET. A market you were born into. A market that you exploited and profited from. Which is fine, as long as you pay the government back in taxes at a rate based on your earnings in order to protect the market and keep it going for future generations.

The market is not the government. Why is the latter entitled to anything because you worked your tail off and made a good living? The government is entitled only to what it costs to provide police protection, national defense and the courts. That's about 10% of what it now receives in taxes.

Our welfare clause is general and we have a Commerce Clause; only lousy capitalists lose money on public policies.

 

[Taz]

You are not a "developed" country if you have a system where you steal the money made by some people and use it to pay the health care bills of other people that didn't earn the money.

That is state sponsored thievery.

Wrong, because people EARN money from the MARKET! The MARKET decides your salary and how much your house is worth, NOT you. You did not create the market, you were born into it. Those who benefit most from the market are required to pay a higher percentage of their earnings in taxes in order to help build and sustain the market. The market needs to be defended from foreign invasion and it needs law and order to operate efficiently which is provided by a government.

Tell you what, move to Somalia where there is no government to "steal your earnings" and see how you like it.

You are confused Moon Bat.

I earned money because I fucking worked for a living. It is morally wrong for the oppressive government to steal that money from me and give it to some filthy ass welfare queen or illegal. You know, a ghetto Democrat voter.

Moon Bats like you have a hard time understanding things like that, don't you?

Instead of me going to Somalia to get lesser government how about you getting your fat commie ass down to Venezuela to how that socialism is working out? Send us a card.

How about this Moon Bat. I'll pay my bills and you pay yours. Isn't that fair or are you some greedy asshole who thinks that you have the right to demand that I pay your bills simply because you are alive?

Fuck socialism. Fuck universal health care. Fuck greedy worthless Moon Bats that are too sorry to pay for their own health care.

If you worked In the United States, then you were either employed by someone or if you had your own business it was dependent on people buying your services or products. Either way, your earnings came from THE MARKET. A market you were born into. A market that you exploited and profited from. Which is fine, as long as you pay the government back in taxes at a rate based on your earnings in order to protect the market and keep it going for future generations.

The market is not the government. Why is the latter entitled to anything because you worked your tail off and made a good living? The government is entitled only to what it costs to provide police protection, national defense and the courts. That's about 10% of what it now receives in taxes.

Our welfare clause is general and we have a Commerce Clause; only lousy capitalists lose money on public policies.

Change the fucking record... on your way back to Messiko.

 

[danielpalos]

Wrong, because people EARN money from the MARKET! The MARKET decides your salary and how much your house is worth, NOT you. You did not create the market, you were born into it. Those who benefit most from the market are required to pay a higher percentage of their earnings in taxes in order to help build and sustain the market. The market needs to be defended from foreign invasion and it needs law and order to operate efficiently which is provided by a government.

Tell you what, move to Somalia where there is no government to "steal your earnings" and see how you like it.

You are confused Moon Bat.

I earned money because I fucking worked for a living. It is morally wrong for the oppressive government to steal that money from me and give it to some filthy ass welfare queen or illegal. You know, a ghetto Democrat voter.

Moon Bats like you have a hard time understanding things like that, don't you?

Instead of me going to Somalia to get lesser government how about you getting your fat commie ass down to Venezuela to how that socialism is working out? Send us a card.

How about this Moon Bat. I'll pay my bills and you pay yours. Isn't that fair or are you some greedy asshole who thinks that you have the right to demand that I pay your bills simply because you are alive?

Fuck socialism. Fuck universal health care. Fuck greedy worthless Moon Bats that are too sorry to pay for their own health care.

If you worked In the United States, then you were either employed by someone or if you had your own business it was dependent on people buying your services or products. Either way, your earnings came from THE MARKET. A market you were born into. A market that you exploited and profited from. Which is fine, as long as you pay the government back in taxes at a rate based on your earnings in order to protect the market and keep it going for future generations.

The market is not the government. Why is the latter entitled to anything because you worked your tail off and made a good living? The government is entitled only to what it costs to provide police protection, national defense and the courts. That's about 10% of what it now receives in taxes.

Our welfare clause is general and we have a Commerce Clause; only lousy capitalists lose money on public policies.

Change the fucking record... on your way back to Messiko.

stop claiming socialism is Bad; the right wing hasn't a Clue as to what Capitalism is.

 

[Taz]

You are confused Moon Bat.

I earned money because I fucking worked for a living. It is morally wrong for the oppressive government to steal that money from me and give it to some filthy ass welfare queen or illegal. You know, a ghetto Democrat voter.

Moon Bats like you have a hard time understanding things like that, don't you?

Instead of me going to Somalia to get lesser government how about you getting your fat commie ass down to Venezuela to how that socialism is working out? Send us a card.

How about this Moon Bat. I'll pay my bills and you pay yours. Isn't that fair or are you some greedy asshole who thinks that you have the right to demand that I pay your bills simply because you are alive?

Fuck socialism. Fuck universal health care. Fuck greedy worthless Moon Bats that are too sorry to pay for their own health care.

If you worked In the United States, then you were either employed by someone or if you had your own business it was dependent on people buying your services or products. Either way, your earnings came from THE MARKET. A market you were born into. A market that you exploited and profited from. Which is fine, as long as you pay the government back in taxes at a rate based on your earnings in order to protect the market and keep it going for future generations.

The market is not the government. Why is the latter entitled to anything because you worked your tail off and made a good living? The government is entitled only to what it costs to provide police protection, national defense and the courts. That's about 10% of what it now receives in taxes.

Our welfare clause is general and we have a Commerce Clause; only lousy capitalists lose money on public policies.

Change the fucking record... on your way back to Messiko.

stop claiming socialism is Bad; the right wing hasn't a Clue as to what Capitalism is.

I never claimed that. I said changed your broken record, nobody's paying any attention to your bean smelling ass.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Free"??? Really? LOL!

You aren't that stupid are you? Nobody is that stupid.

Well, it’s paid out of general tax revenues, but free when you go to hospital.

So if you don't pay at the doctor then it is free?

Then in that case I get free treatment here in the US because I never have to pay a co payment or deductible with my insurance policy.

By the way there ain't so such thing as a free lunch. All Libertarians know that. The Canadians have about 20% higher taxes than we do.

We pay taxes and health insurance, and it depends where you live for how much tax you pay, just like here. But in Canada, everyone is covered, and they don’t care for people for profit.

I would much rather have somebody trying to make a profit on good service provide my health care rather than some stupid incompetent bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician, elected by special interest group.

A few years ago I had cancer that needed treatment. In my area I had three different facilities competing for my business. I got excellent treatment. Much better than if the filthy ass non caring government was running the facilities.

The government in Canada doesn’t run hospitals, they simply pay the tab.

He who has the gold makes the rules.

If the government is paying the tab, the government is running things.

 

[Flash]

Well, it’s paid out of general tax revenues, but free when you go to hospital.

So if you don't pay at the doctor then it is free?

Then in that case I get free treatment here in the US because I never have to pay a co payment or deductible with my insurance policy.

By the way there ain't so such thing as a free lunch. All Libertarians know that. The Canadians have about 20% higher taxes than we do.

We pay taxes and health insurance, and it depends where you live for how much tax you pay, just like here. But in Canada, everyone is covered, and they don’t care for people for profit.

I would much rather have somebody trying to make a profit on good service provide my health care rather than some stupid incompetent bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician, elected by special interest group.

A few years ago I had cancer that needed treatment. In my area I had three different facilities competing for my business. I got excellent treatment. Much better than if the filthy ass non caring government was running the facilities.

The government in Canada doesn’t run hospitals, they simply pay the tab.

He who has the gold makes the rules.

If the government is paying the tab, the government is running things.

In the case of the government it is the government screwing up things.

The bureaucracy of some stupid national health care would be absolutely enormous with tremendous corruption and cost.

It is not simply the program where everything continues as it is now expect you pay more taxes and get "free" care.

It would be a gigantic clusterfuck and none of the government workers providing the care or contracting the care would give a shit if you get treated or not. We see that in VA facilities where the administration personnel is more concerned with fudging data to get a bonus than they are concerned about you getting treated.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Its the assumption that the wealthiest country in the world has the best healthcare. The same assumption that drives people to go the hospital as best in the country. The reality though is much different.

Were not talking about the few with money who choose to travel because they believe something is better. Were talking about average life expectancy in each country and which countries are providing their citizens with Universal Healthcare. Most Europeans do not go to America to get healthcare. They stay in their countries and on average live longer than Americans. That last fact is by FAR the most relevant.

Let me ask you this:

Timely Medical | Timely Surgery at Affordable Prices

This is a company. It's a company operating out of Canada. The entire purpose of this company, is to setup patient, primarily in Canada, with doctors and hospitals in the US.

They charge money, obviously to provide this service.
This is an additional charge to the cost of getting whatever treatment or surgery they get in the US.

The company was started by a Canadian doctor, who was fed up watching patients die while waiting.

So my question to you is this.....

Canada has universal care, that is "free". Please explain to me how Timely medical can find enough consistent flow of customers, willing to pay thousands of dollars for surgery in the US, and to pay them to set them up for that surgery.... if those same customers can all get surgery for 'free'?

If government run health care is so great in Canada, how can this company started by a Canadian doctor, end up with thousands of customers every year willing to pay for health care? How can they find enough people willing to spend thousands of dollar for health care, to escape their Canadian system if it is so great?

Can you explain that to me?

Don't have to. These little individual examples, whether they are true or not, are irrelevant. What matters is the overall averages on life expectancy and the countries that provide Universal Healthcare. Look FRANCE, GERMANY, SWEDEN, NORWAY, ITALY etc. Most people in the top 50 most developed countries in the world stay in their own countries when it comes to healthcare. At least 34 of those countries citizens live longer than Americans on average. One's personal experience, or some off hand example will not change that reality.

France, where doctors went on strike for weeks, and people were left without care, not to mention people died of heat stroke in hospitals during a heat wave years back.

Germany, has a system of private insurance, the nearly all people are part of.

Moreover, nearly all those countries have double our tax rate.

Which is more expensive: Current insurance premiums, or a 50% tax rate on the middle class?

And yes, the fact is, if you want to support your argument, then you do have to explain why people come from all over the world from their 'free health care' systems, to pay for health care here.

If you can't, then whether you admit it, or believe it, you have undeniably lost the argument that free government care is better.

SOME PEOPLE come to the United States for healthcare. Some. Its a tiny percentage and not proof that the United States healthcare system is better.

Healthcare cost in Europe are about 1/2 to 2/3s of what they are in the United States. The Quality is better because the people there live longer. Everyone there is provided for. Its the three BIG WINS!

The United States can get the taxes it needs for Universal Healthcare from the top 20% of income earners who have 80% of the wealth in the country. Capital Gains, Property, Estate and other things besides just income will need to see increased tax rates. The Middle Class will only be lightly effected if at all by the increased tax rates. The lower class and the poor won't have to pay anything.

bullshit. have you been to any European countries? I have. The quality is NOT better.

I will tell you honestly that if I was in Europe and got injured, I would want them to stabilize me, and then ship me to the nearest American medical facility.

 

[Taz]

Well, it’s paid out of general tax revenues, but free when you go to hospital.

So if you don't pay at the doctor then it is free?

Then in that case I get free treatment here in the US because I never have to pay a co payment or deductible with my insurance policy.

By the way there ain't so such thing as a free lunch. All Libertarians know that. The Canadians have about 20% higher taxes than we do.

We pay taxes and health insurance, and it depends where you live for how much tax you pay, just like here. But in Canada, everyone is covered, and they don’t care for people for profit.

I would much rather have somebody trying to make a profit on good service provide my health care rather than some stupid incompetent bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician, elected by special interest group.

A few years ago I had cancer that needed treatment. In my area I had three different facilities competing for my business. I got excellent treatment. Much better than if the filthy ass non caring government was running the facilities.

The government in Canada doesn’t run hospitals, they simply pay the tab.

He who has the gold makes the rules.

If the government is paying the tab, the government is running things.

The hospitals in Canada are actually run pretty well. People there look at the American system with a bit of horror and are super glad that that's not there system.

 

[Taz]

So if you don't pay at the doctor then it is free?

Then in that case I get free treatment here in the US because I never have to pay a co payment or deductible with my insurance policy.

By the way there ain't so such thing as a free lunch. All Libertarians know that. The Canadians have about 20% higher taxes than we do.

We pay taxes and health insurance, and it depends where you live for how much tax you pay, just like here. But in Canada, everyone is covered, and they don’t care for people for profit.

I would much rather have somebody trying to make a profit on good service provide my health care rather than some stupid incompetent bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician, elected by special interest group.

A few years ago I had cancer that needed treatment. In my area I had three different facilities competing for my business. I got excellent treatment. Much better than if the filthy ass non caring government was running the facilities.

The government in Canada doesn’t run hospitals, they simply pay the tab.

He who has the gold makes the rules.

If the government is paying the tab, the government is running things.

In the case of the government it is the government screwing up things.

The bureaucracy of some stupid national health care would be absolutely enormous with tremendous corruption and cost.

It is not simply the program where everything continues as it is now expect you pay more taxes and get "free" care.

It would be a gigantic clusterfuck and none of the government workers providing the care or contracting the care would give a shit if you get treated or not. We see that in VA facilities where the administration personnel is more concerned with fudging data to get a bonus than they are concerned about you getting treated.

Canadian hospitals are better than the VA system, by far. It's not even comparable. Our VA system is fucked up badly.