The 36-hour work week/3-day weekend

[Mathbud1]

All these things are anecdotal, where as they are figured in along with everything else when doing business, and it has nothing to do with how you pay your employee as based upon the supply and demand chain one might fine themselves in. How do you think businessmen get so filthy rich then, I mean if they are so overwhelmed with debt, cost and all else that is dragging them down ? They know how to make a profit above and beyond of all the things you mention that's how, but for some reason even when they are in a supply and demand chain that ensures huge profits for them, they are greedy still, and worse disrespectful, and so they decide that they should have almost 300% instead of a little less so that their employee's might share in that success along with them better ( I mean why not they helped them make it also).

Why is this greed I wonder ? Is it because they unionize in their thinking at or near the top, and so they can't operate as corporate individuals in which is what they want to be called when it benefits them, but when it comes to their employee's they group themselves in with the others who cry and complain about this all of the time, and so they say that they are hurting all the time right, and so there is just no way that they can pay anymore at all to their employee's because they (these con men) are just hurting all the time as according to them right?

Then we all go and watch episodes of Epic homes and other shows like this on TV, but they couldn't afford to do people right in life, no there was just no way they could do nothing like that on their own now could they?...LOL

You are completely worthless and uninformed. No wonder your boss fired you. Probably for gross stupidity, laziness and incompetence. First, look up the word "anecdotal" before you bother to abuse it again.

Is that the only thing you found wrong with my post (one word), so how about the rest of it ?

You know I'm right on this stuff, as it takes no rocket scientist to understand what goes on, and have you forgotten why I was layed off or do you just ignore what one says in so that you can try and make up things in the ways that you want them to read or be read otherwise? Why so hostile, I mean are you a businessman who has been guilty of being greedy, and hoarding everything for yourself in life in which I figure if so, then you are probably the real lazy one who was just some how fortunate enough to have been in the right situation and at the right time in life. I know people who have taken dirt and turned it into a fortune, but it was only because they were in a supply and demand chain that allowed it to turn out that way. There wasn't really much thought involved in it all, so it is amazing what can come from some of the most unsuspecting businesses that people can get into, but it is still no reason for them to be bad people if they are fortunate in life, so I see it as a character flaw really when they who are the guilty ones are bad, and in other situations there are trends that get started, and that are followed, where as it is supposed that you are a fool if you treat your employee's as if they are somebody instead of idiots who can be duped easily.

If they are being duped and they are not idiots, why are they being duped? Do you realize that your rant is just as much saying that EMPLOYEES are stupid for accepting crap wages as it is saying that EMPLOYERS are greedy for giving them?

 

[The Rabbi]

You are completely worthless and uninformed. No wonder your boss fired you. Probably for gross stupidity, laziness and incompetence. First, look up the word "anecdotal" before you bother to abuse it again.

Is that the only thing you found wrong with my post (one word), so how about the rest of it ?

You know I'm right on this stuff, as it takes no rocket scientist to understand what goes on, and have you forgotten why I was layed off or do you just ignore what one says in so that you can try and make up things in the ways that you want them to read or be read otherwise? Why so hostile, I mean are you a businessman who has been guilty of being greedy, and hoarding everything for yourself in life in which I figure if so, then you are probably the real lazy one who was just some how fortunate enough to have been in the right situation and at the right time in life. I know people who have taken dirt and turned it into a fortune, but it was only because they were in a supply and demand chain that allowed it to turn out that way. There wasn't really much thought involved in it all, so it is amazing what can come from some of the most unsuspecting businesses that people can get into, but it is still no reason for them to be bad people if they are fortunate in life, so I see it as a character flaw really when they who are the guilty ones are bad, and in other situations there are trends that get started, and that are followed, where as it is supposed that you are a fool if you treat your employee's as if they are somebody instead of idiots who can be duped easily.

If they are being duped and they are not idiots, why are they being duped? Do you realize that your rant is just as much saying that EMPLOYEES are stupid for accepting crap wages as it is saying that EMPLOYERS are greedy for giving them?

You're dealing with someone who, frankly, I doubt ever worked in a profit making environment. He certainly shows no understanding of what it takes to run a business. Someone who thinks advertising, R&D, taxes, rent, maintenance, and utilities are "anecdotal" (perhaps he mean incidental?) doesnt have the slightest fucking clue.

 

[sameech]

We've officially had the 40-hour week since the early part of the 20th century thanks to courageous and determined efforts of the labor movement during that era.

Advances in productivity haven't led to a substantial increase in wages nor reduction in hours worked for the average employee. An increase in wages in proportion with productivity should help boost an argument for reducing the work week from the now standard 5-day week/8-hour day to 4-day week/9-hour day. Or we could just make Fridays a half-day. Or turn Thursdays and Fridays into 6-hour days with an adjusted wage increase.

Some of the Futurists in the 60's and 70's were saying that in the 21st Century the average man would have so much leisure time he wouldn't know what to do with it all.
Well through the 40yrs since then I've worked hundreds of 60+ hour weeks. I think the glitch they didn't anticipate was the reality that the working man in the affluent west
would have to compete with the working man in the rising third world. They were often sweat shop labor. So even though our productivity rose signifigantly there has been that anchor holding back an equivalent rise in our standard of living.

I for one think it would be great if a person could afford to give more time to their familys or their art or volunteering, whatever, if that's what they chose. That would be a leap forward in quality of living as far as I'm concerned. There's no universal law that says a human being has to work 60 hrs or 40hrs. a week to earn his daily bread.

That time may come when the world's labor market levels out, and if everybody isn't actually strapped to the wheel by then.

People need to find ways to decouple themselves from an hour's wage for an hour's work. Progress has been made in that regards with 401K's, but even then it is largely voluntary and requires contributions employees elect not to make to have a few more dollars today. My sister, for instance gets matching up to 5% so she does 5 and gets the 10%. She said most people instead just like to complain about how broke they are instead of putting money in to get the extra amount. At the rate she is going, she will be sitting on at least half a million bucks when she retires just by putting in 5% and probably closer to a million.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We've officially had the 40-hour week since the early part of the 20th century thanks to courageous and determined efforts of the labor movement during that era.

Advances in productivity haven't led to a substantial increase in wages nor reduction in hours worked for the average employee. An increase in wages in proportion with productivity should help boost an argument for reducing the work week from the now standard 5-day week/8-hour day to 4-day week/9-hour day. Or we could just make Fridays a half-day. Or turn Thursdays and Fridays into 6-hour days with an adjusted wage increase.

Some of the Futurists in the 60's and 70's were saying that in the 21st Century the average man would have so much leisure time he wouldn't know what to do with it all.
Well through the 40yrs since then I've worked hundreds of 60+ hour weeks. I think the glitch they didn't anticipate was the reality that the working man in the affluent west
would have to compete with the working man in the rising third world. They were often sweat shop labor. So even though our productivity rose signifigantly there has been that anchor holding back an equivalent rise in our standard of living.

I for one think it would be great if a person could afford to give more time to their familys or their art or volunteering, whatever, if that's what they chose. That would be a leap forward in quality of living as far as I'm concerned. There's no universal law that says a human being has to work 60 hrs or 40hrs. a week to earn his daily bread.

That time may come when the world's labor market levels out, and if everybody isn't actually strapped to the wheel by then.

People need to find ways to decouple themselves from an hour's wage for an hour's work. Progress has been made in that regards with 401K's, but even then it is largely voluntary and requires contributions employees elect not to make to have a few more dollars today. My sister, for instance gets matching up to 5% so she does 5 and gets the 10%. She said most people instead just like to complain about how broke they are instead of putting money in to get the extra amount. At the rate she is going, she will be sitting on at least half a million bucks when she retires just by putting in 5% and probably closer to a million.

401ks have a lot of drawbacks but if your employer matches you are a complete idiot if you don't max out the matching contributions.

 

[sameech]

401ks have a lot of drawbacks but if your employer matches you are a complete idiot if you don't max out the matching contributions.

Yep. I worked at a place that did up to 5% on SEP-IRA. Most people didn't contribute. I just could not convince them to take the 5% and, if nothing else, draw it back out and pay the 10% penalty on it. They still would have come out ahead, but nope.....that was beer money denied to tie up any of their coin.

 

[Andylusion]

401ks have a lot of drawbacks

Huh? What are the drawbacks?

If I purchase $10,000 stocks, or any investment, and it triples in value, and I sell it, I have to pay $5,000 in taxes, eating up a good chunk of the increase.

If I put $10K in any investment through a 401K, and it triples in value, it grows in value tax free.... correct?

What is the drawback? Explain please. I don't understand.

 

[initforme]

Winning in life consists of being able to retire at the earliest possible age to get out of the god awful American rat race of working yourself to death. Invest wisely, constantly be on the lookout for a better job sticking it to a lower paying employee, and getting post high school training in a field of high demand are all ways a worker who will never own his own business to get ahead in this messed up anxiety society. If I would have known the popularity of anti anxiety meds and how many people are on them, I would have invested in them heavily. Most everyone I know is on them.

 

[boedicca]

According to Vivek, we're headed to a 10-20 hour workweek for some, with many humans being obsolete in 15 years.

He predicts that The Idle will be free to focus on creativity and englightment.

Ha. Considering how the idle spend their time these days, he's delusional.

...In his debate with me, Kurzweil said: “Automation always eliminates more jobs than it creates if you only look at the circumstances narrowly surrounding the automation. That’s what the Luddites saw in the early 19th century in the textile industry in England. The new jobs came from increased prosperity and new industries that were not seen.” Kurzweil’s key argument was that just as we could not predict that types of jobs that were created, we can’t predict what is to come.

Kurzweil is right, but the problem is that no matter what the jobs of the future are, they will surely require greater skill and education—robots can do all the grunt work. Manufacturers who want to bring production back already complain that they can’t find enough skilled workers in the U.S. for their automated factories. Technology companies that write the software also complain about shortages of workers with the skills that they need. We won’t be able to retrain the majority of the workforce fast enough to take the new jobs in emerging industries. During the industrial revolution, it was the younger generations who were trained—not the older workers.

The only solution that I see is a shrinking work week. We may perhaps be working for 10 to 20 hours a week instead of the 40 for which we do today. And with the prices of necessities and of what we today consider luxury goods dropping exponentially, we may not need the entire population to be working. There is surely a possibility for social unrest because of this; but we could also create the utopian future we have long dreamed of, with a large part of humanity focused on creativity and enlightenment.

Regardless, at best we have another 10 to 15 years in which there is a role for humans....

We?re heading into a jobless future, no matter what the government does - The Washington Post

 

[jwoodie]

How about a 3 hour workweek and a 36 day weekend?

 

[sameech]

401ks have a lot of drawbacks

Huh? What are the drawbacks?

If I purchase $10,000 stocks, or any investment, and it triples in value, and I sell it, I have to pay $5,000 in taxes, eating up a good chunk of the increase.

If I put $10K in any investment through a 401K, and it triples in value, it grows in value tax free.... correct?

What is the drawback? Explain please. I don't understand.

It depends on a person's situation. Some 401(k)'s are set up so that it is fairly easy to borrow against them without touching it directly, but apparently some are more of a PITA once you move outside your industry credit unions. Likewise, there are the penalties if you have no choice but to touch it like to pay for some huge unexpected expense like a funeral, etc.

I have no idea what they do in a situation like say you were 52 and had terminal cancer and needed to touch the money as far as penalties and such. Like with my life insurance, if I have a terminal illness with 6 months or less expected to live, I can go ahead and collect up to half the money then if I wanted and leave the other half for when I am a goner.

 

[dblack]

The main thing is conformity. We must all march in lockstep for the greater glory of the fatherland!

 

[Papageorgio]

A capitalist is employing a worker to make a pen. The cost of raw materials and overhead was $10. He sells this pen in the end for $20. So with the cost of raw materials we have now got $10 left. So the worker makes the pen all by himself whilst the boss is away somewhere else, let say in the office of the factory doing whatever. The end of the day comes, the worker has made the pen. The boss takes this pen and wants to sell it (and does for $20 as mentioned above). To pay him for his work, he gives him $3. So where did the rest of the money go ? There is $7 unaccounted for. It didn't go the worker. It went to the boss, as profit. The boss has extracted so called surplus value.

This is exactly the mentality of a guy that does not get business. There are other expenses, there is labor, materials, utilities, equipment, building space, time spent dealing with government agencies, there are permits, licenses, taxes, unemployment insurance, workman comp insurance, business insurance, building insurance, time spent selling, not to mention the businesses are charged more for sewer, water, electrical, internet access and a host of other costs.

All these things are anecdotal, where as they are figured in along with everything else when doing business, and it has nothing to do with how you pay your employee as based upon the supply and demand chain one might fine themselves in. How do you think businessmen get so filthy rich then, I mean if they are so overwhelmed with debt, cost and all else that is dragging them down ? They know how to make a profit above and beyond of all the things you mention that's how, but for some reason even when they are in a supply and demand chain that ensures huge profits for them, they are greedy still, and worse disrespectful, and so they decide that they should have almost 300% instead of a little less so that their employee's might share in that success along with them better ( I mean why not they helped them make it also).

Why is this greed I wonder ? Is it because they unionize in their thinking at or near the top, and so they can't operate as corporate individuals in which is what they want to be called when it benefits them, but when it comes to their employee's they group themselves in with the others who cry and complain about this all of the time, and so they say that they are hurting all the time right, and so there is just no way that they can pay anymore at all to their employee's because they (these con men) are just hurting all the time as according to them right?

Then we all go and watch episodes of Epic homes and other shows like this on TV, but they couldn't afford to do people right in life, no there was just no way they could do nothing like that on their own now could they?...LOL

Another person that is ignorant on how a business operates.

They are all over the place.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

 

[SmedlyButler]

We've officially had the 40-hour week since the early part of the 20th century thanks to courageous and determined efforts of the labor movement during that era.

Advances in productivity haven't led to a substantial increase in wages nor reduction in hours worked for the average employee. An increase in wages in proportion with productivity should help boost an argument for reducing the work week from the now standard 5-day week/8-hour day to 4-day week/9-hour day. Or we could just make Fridays a half-day. Or turn Thursdays and Fridays into 6-hour days with an adjusted wage increase.

Some of the Futurists in the 60's and 70's were saying that in the 21st Century the average man would have so much leisure time he wouldn't know what to do with it all.
Well through the 40yrs since then I've worked hundreds of 60+ hour weeks. I think the glitch they didn't anticipate was the reality that the working man in the affluent west
would have to compete with the working man in the rising third world. They were often sweat shop labor. So even though our productivity rose signifigantly there has been that anchor holding back an equivalent rise in our standard of living.

I for one think it would be great if a person could afford to give more time to their familys or their art or volunteering, whatever, if that's what they chose. That would be a leap forward in quality of living as far as I'm concerned. There's no universal law that says a human being has to work 60 hrs or 40hrs. a week to earn his daily bread.

That time may come when the world's labor market levels out, and if everybody isn't actually strapped to the wheel by then.

People need to find ways to decouple themselves from an hour's wage for an hour's work. Progress has been made in that regards with 401K's, but even then it is largely voluntary and requires contributions employees elect not to make to have a few more dollars today. My sister, for instance gets matching up to 5% so she does 5 and gets the 10%. She said most people instead just like to complain about how broke they are instead of putting money in to get the extra amount. At the rate she is going, she will be sitting on at least half a million bucks when she retires just by putting in 5% and probably closer to a million.

Even tho I had to retire a few years before I wanted to things have come together even better than I hoped. Doesn't have anything to do wth the OP tho.

 

[Skull Pilot]

401ks have a lot of drawbacks

Huh? What are the drawbacks?

If I purchase $10,000 stocks, or any investment, and it triples in value, and I sell it, I have to pay $5,000 in taxes, eating up a good chunk of the increase.

If I put $10K in any investment through a 401K, and it triples in value, it grows in value tax free.... correct?

What is the drawback? Explain please. I don't understand.

A 401 k is not tax free it is tax deferred
Look at the way your 401 is taxed when you take the money out.

ALL of the contributions and ALL of the gains are taxed as regular income.

The government forces you to take required minimum withdrawals every year. If you do not take out the required amount you get heavy tax penalties.

Now compare that to a non qualified plan.

Your money is categorized as principle ( the after tax money used to purchase investments) and gains (the actual growth of your investments)

If you invested 100K and it grew to 1 million you would not be taxed on the 1ooK investment and the rest would be taxed at the lower capital gains rate of 15%

Now let's say you only need 40K to live on. In a non qualified investment you only have to take out what you need and can leave the rest in to continue to grow thereby making your nest egg last longer.

In a 401 or other qualified plan the government would force you to take the required withdrawal even if it was more than you needed to cover your expenses and all of that withdrawal is taxed at the higher regular income tax rate. So you pay more taxes than you have to and your nest egg will be depleted faster.

IMO those are significant drawbacks.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Sounds like a good idea And as for the people making less than 100k/year = give them 10k in food stamps.

This would work well.

 

[sameech]

Even tho I had to retire a few years before I wanted to things have come together even better than I hoped. Doesn't have anything to do wth the OP tho.

It is one of the ways of decoupling from hour work=hour wage. People should buy stocks, start their own businesses on the side, grow more of their food, etc to be more self sufficient. Reducing the work week will reduce people's incomes. Just because you are not working the counter at McDonald's doesn't mean that someone else won't need to and if you are at home then they are going to be paying me to stand there in your place.

 

[Andylusion]

You are completely worthless and uninformed. No wonder your boss fired you. Probably for gross stupidity, laziness and incompetence. First, look up the word "anecdotal" before you bother to abuse it again.

Is that the only thing you found wrong with my post (one word), so how about the rest of it ?

You know I'm right on this stuff, as it takes no rocket scientist to understand what goes on, and have you forgotten why I was layed off or do you just ignore what one says in so that you can try and make up things in the ways that you want them to read or be read otherwise? Why so hostile, I mean are you a businessman who has been guilty of being greedy, and hoarding everything for yourself in life in which I figure if so, then you are probably the real lazy one who was just some how fortunate enough to have been in the right situation and at the right time in life. I know people who have taken dirt and turned it into a fortune, but it was only because they were in a supply and demand chain that allowed it to turn out that way. There wasn't really much thought involved in it all, so it is amazing what can come from some of the most unsuspecting businesses that people can get into, but it is still no reason for them to be bad people if they are fortunate in life, so I see it as a character flaw really when they who are the guilty ones are bad, and in other situations there are trends that get started, and that are followed, where as it is supposed that you are a fool if you treat your employee's as if they are somebody instead of idiots who can be duped easily.

If they are being duped and they are not idiots, why are they being duped? Do you realize that your rant is just as much saying that EMPLOYEES are stupid for accepting crap wages as it is saying that EMPLOYERS are greedy for giving them?

Well, that basically is the view of the left. Everyone is too stupid to live without us directing and controlling their lives.

I've actually had a job that paid, in my opinion, too little. The solution was to get another job.

But the thing was, everyone at that job, said they loved it. Were they stupid? Or were they making a choice that the enjoyment of doing a job they liked, even for a lower wage than they could get elsewhere, was worth it?

Again, the leftist view is that people should not be allowed to make a choice, that they the wise sages of authoritarianism, do not approve of.

I sat my boss down, and had a talk with him about the pay, and he showed me that they couldn't increase their prices to the customer, in order to pay me more money, because their competition had similar pricing. If they raise prices, they would lose business, and that would mean I'd end up not earning much either way.

I agreed, and started looking for other employment, and I found a job, and quit. That's how that works.

The irony of the whole thing is, if employees would stop sitting around complaining they are victims, they could fix this whole thing.

If they simply got off their butts, and found alternative employment when they want to earn more, the act of them leaving those jobs, would drive up wages, by reducing availability of labor. I always go back to McDonald's in Norway. They have absolutely no McDs Union, and no minimum wage law, and the employees are paid a bit over $15/hr.

Why is McDonald's paying so much? Because the general public tends to learn skills, or get education, to move on from low wage jobs, to higher wage jobs. As a result, McDonald's has to pay more to keep employees.

The free-market system works, when people use it. When you sit on your butt, and cry "wah wah empolyers are greedy wah wah wah", the result is you stay poor.

 

[beagle9]

You are completely worthless and uninformed. No wonder your boss fired you. Probably for gross stupidity, laziness and incompetence. First, look up the word "anecdotal" before you bother to abuse it again.

Is that the only thing you found wrong with my post (one word), so how about the rest of it ?

You know I'm right on this stuff, as it takes no rocket scientist to understand what goes on, and have you forgotten why I was layed off or do you just ignore what one says in so that you can try and make up things in the ways that you want them to read or be read otherwise? Why so hostile, I mean are you a businessman who has been guilty of being greedy, and hoarding everything for yourself in life in which I figure if so, then you are probably the real lazy one who was just some how fortunate enough to have been in the right situation and at the right time in life. I know people who have taken dirt and turned it into a fortune, but it was only because they were in a supply and demand chain that allowed it to turn out that way. There wasn't really much thought involved in it all, so it is amazing what can come from some of the most unsuspecting businesses that people can get into, but it is still no reason for them to be bad people if they are fortunate in life, so I see it as a character flaw really when they who are the guilty ones are bad, and in other situations there are trends that get started, and that are followed, where as it is supposed that you are a fool if you treat your employee's as if they are somebody instead of idiots who can be duped easily.

If they are being duped and they are not idiots, why are they being duped? Do you realize that your rant is just as much saying that EMPLOYEES are stupid for accepting crap wages as it is saying that EMPLOYERS are greedy for giving them?

Duped because they got caught in a trap that the employers had carefully layed out for them, and when the economy crashed it just set it all on fire even worse. Who generally has the power, and who doesn't in todays bull crap monopoly riddled America ? Think about all the excuses that were made justifying slavery back in the day, as I bet it was just as good if not better than what you all are coming up with today.

 

[The Rabbi]

Is that the only thing you found wrong with my post (one word), so how about the rest of it ?

You know I'm right on this stuff, as it takes no rocket scientist to understand what goes on, and have you forgotten why I was layed off or do you just ignore what one says in so that you can try and make up things in the ways that you want them to read or be read otherwise? Why so hostile, I mean are you a businessman who has been guilty of being greedy, and hoarding everything for yourself in life in which I figure if so, then you are probably the real lazy one who was just some how fortunate enough to have been in the right situation and at the right time in life. I know people who have taken dirt and turned it into a fortune, but it was only because they were in a supply and demand chain that allowed it to turn out that way. There wasn't really much thought involved in it all, so it is amazing what can come from some of the most unsuspecting businesses that people can get into, but it is still no reason for them to be bad people if they are fortunate in life, so I see it as a character flaw really when they who are the guilty ones are bad, and in other situations there are trends that get started, and that are followed, where as it is supposed that you are a fool if you treat your employee's as if they are somebody instead of idiots who can be duped easily.

If they are being duped and they are not idiots, why are they being duped? Do you realize that your rant is just as much saying that EMPLOYEES are stupid for accepting crap wages as it is saying that EMPLOYERS are greedy for giving them?

Duped because they got caught in a trap that the employers had carefully layed out for them, and when the economy crashed it just set it all on fire even worse. Who generally has the power, and who doesn't in todays bull crap monopoly riddled America ? Think about all the excuses that were made justifying slavery back in the day, as I bet it was just as good if not better than what you all are coming up with today.

Employees are too stupid to see a trap, and once caught in it are too stupid to leave.
Do you actually believe this, or are you just projecting your own experiences?

 

[Andylusion]

401ks have a lot of drawbacks

Huh? What are the drawbacks?

If I purchase $10,000 stocks, or any investment, and it triples in value, and I sell it, I have to pay $5,000 in taxes, eating up a good chunk of the increase.

If I put $10K in any investment through a 401K, and it triples in value, it grows in value tax free.... correct?

What is the drawback? Explain please. I don't understand.

A 401 k is not tax free it is tax deferred
Look at the way your 401 is taxed when you take the money out.

ALL of the contributions and ALL of the gains are taxed as regular income.

The government forces you to take required minimum withdrawals every year. If you do not take out the required amount you get heavy tax penalties.

Now compare that to a non qualified plan.

Your money is categorized as principle ( the after tax money used to purchase investments) and gains (the actual growth of your investments)

If you invested 100K and it grew to 1 million you would not be taxed on the 1ooK investment and the rest would be taxed at the lower capital gains rate of 15%

Now let's say you only need 40K to live on. In a non qualified investment you only have to take out what you need and can leave the rest in to continue to grow thereby making your nest egg last longer.

In a 401 or other qualified plan the government would force you to take the required withdrawal even if it was more than you needed to cover your expenses and all of that withdrawal is taxed at the higher regular income tax rate. So you pay more taxes than you have to and your nest egg will be depleted faster.

IMO those are significant drawbacks.

Roth 401K / IRA? My understanding is that there is no minimum distribution in Roths. Even so, the required distribution is fairly low, don't you think? From what I've read, the RMD on a $500K traditional 401K, is about $18K. At $18K a year, that would be 27 years, assuming that you picked such horrible funds, that there was zero increase for 27 years. Not to mention the RMD doesn't start until you hit 70, which means that, again assume zero increase for 27 years, means you'll run out at 97 years old?

You have a point, you do... not sure it's that big of a deal. It's more of a big deal because of the draconian taxes the tyrannical government imposes. 50% tax on every dollar you fail to withdraw. That's unbelievable.

I guess where I got confused was this:

If you invested 100K and it grew to 1 million you would not be taxed on the 1ooK investment and the rest would be taxed at the lower capital gains rate of 15%

My understanding.... and I could be wrong... is that you have to pay taxes on the gain each year. Which adds up to thousands on thousands of dollars.

If I put $100K in a bank savings account, I have to pay taxes on the gain of that account each year.

Similarly, if I put that $100K into a mutual fund, and it gains 10% each year, every year I'll get hit with a capital gains tax of 15% on that gain, in addition to my regular income taxes. By the time I save up $1 Million in my mutual fund, I'll be paying $15,000 a year in Capital Gains tax.

If I work a $40K a year job, I could easily save up a Million dollars in a mutual fund. But by the time I got to that point, outside of a 401K, by the time I reached that amount, I'd be paying $15K in capital gains, in addition to my regular income tax.

However, if I put the same $100K into a 401K mutual fund, and it gains 10% a year, I pay zero taxes. When my mutual fund hits $1 Million, I'm still paying zero tax. Then if I have a 401K, I pull it out at my tax rate. If I have a Roth, I pull it out tax free.

I do grasp your point, that all things being equal, you would rather take the 15% capital gains rate, over the 35% income tax rate. But there is no way that someone earning $40K a year, would be able to take the yearly capital gains hit of $15,000 in addition to normal income tax. And if they sucked the yearly capital gains taxes, out of the mutual fund, they would never get even close to $1 Million saved up.

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-too...ax-Benefits-of-Your-401-k--Plan/INF22614.html
Distributions and Taxes

I could be all wrong about all of this, but that was my understanding.