Thank God for Rich People

[Ravi]

I have an idea for a monument in our nation’s capital. I envision a big bronze and granite statue that would honor an entire group of Americans who are true heroes, and unsung heroes at that.

It is time — no, make that long past time — to pay tribute to those this nation of ours owes a great debt; to those who give and give and give and in return get anything but our gratitude.

This is an idea whose time has finally come.

Right there, amongst the sacred national structures that honor great Americans, we need to build a shiny monument to … (this is where the drum roll would come in) The Rich – otherwise known in liberal circles as the filthy, no good, greedy, heartless rich.


President Obama compromises with Republicans and gives the wealthiest two percent of Americans a temporary respite from a tax hike and listening to the yelps of the “progressives” you’d think he just tried to shut down WikiLeaks or something.

The Left is bawling about how “we can’t afford” to give people “who don’t need it” a tax break. This argument makes perfect sense, of course – as long as income re-distribution is a central tenet in your theology. Never mind that liberals weren’t all that concerned about what we could afford when they passed a nearly trillion dollar stimulus package that didn’t stimulate very much or when they poured in billions of our tax dollars to bail out General Motors. It’s only now that they’re concerned about budgets because those nasty rich folks are getting a break. But I don’t want to pick a fight with my liberal friends over whether the wealthiest Americans “deserve” a tax break or not. I have come to praise The Rich, not to bury them.

I offer a few numbers to make my case:

Did you know that the top one percent of American wage earners (adjusted gross income) pay about 38 percent of all our federal personal taxes (according to the National Taxpayer Union)? The top one percent, by the way, account for 23.5 percent of all income — a substantial amount, yes, but considerably less than 38 percent.

Or that the top five percent pay just under 60 percent?

Or that the top ten percent pay about 70 percent of all the personal income taxes collected in this great land of ours?


Thank God for Rich People | BernardGoldberg.com

You're welcome. I couldn't have done it without all you little people.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Its only 14% if you are self employed. For a wage earner it is half of that. And it still doesnt counter that the 1% gets 23.5% of the income, but pays 38% of the taxes.

they DO NOT pay 38% of the TAXES.....

we only collect 1 trillion in income taxes, the other trillion we collect in taxes are PAYROLL taxes, and gas taxes and cigarette taxes....

and SS surplus taxes are being USED to PAY for what income taxes should be paying for........

to the tune of 200 to 300 billion a year of the lowly worker's surplus SS taxes, of which the wealthiest pay near ZIP of....

Listen, the numbers change from year to year, and depending upon what you include, not include. The number i quoted was based on income taxes only. Lets just go to the fact that the top 20% of the earners in this country carry most of the tax burden, be it from federal income, to state, to local.

SS was never intended to be another tax, it was intended to be a giant pension system you pay into, and then get in proportion to what you paid into. That is why it is capped. If you want to remove the cap fine, but at that point it basically becomes another progressive income tax, where people at the higher end pay in more for less.

Suggested reading for Martybegan:

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

 

[Care4all]

Its only 14% if you are self employed. For a wage earner it is half of that. And it still doesnt counter that the 1% gets 23.5% of the income, but pays 38% of the taxes.

they DO NOT pay 38% of the TAXES.....

we only collect 1 trillion in income taxes, the other trillion we collect in taxes are PAYROLL taxes, and gas taxes and cigarette taxes....

and SS surplus taxes are being USED to PAY for what income taxes should be paying for........

to the tune of 200 to 300 billion a year of the lowly worker's surplus SS taxes, of which the wealthiest pay near ZIP of....

Listen, the numbers change from year to year, and depending upon what you include, not include. The number i quoted was based on income taxes only. Lets just go to the fact that the top 20% of the earners in this country carry most of the tax burden, be it from federal income, to state, to local.

SS was never intended to be another tax, it was intended to be a giant pension system you pay into, and then get in proportion to what you paid into. That is why it is capped. If you want to remove the cap fine, but at that point it basically becomes another progressive income tax, where people at the higher end pay in more for less.

but the point, is that SS Surplus has paid TRILLIONS of dollars for what income tax revenues should be paying.....so the very wealthiest who supposedly pay for most of our income taxes to run the country ARE NOT PAYING for this....are not paying the $300 or so billion a year, that the worker's Surplus SS taxes are being used to do....

We collect a trillion or so in income taxes each year, but we also collect about a trillion in SS taxes each year....of which 1/3 of these SS taxes are being used as "income taxes" so to say that the workers in this country pay CRAP in taxes to pay for this country and to say that the wealthiest pay some huge percentage of our income taxes is nothing less than deceiving....the wealthiest want you to THINK they are fronting the whole bill or 40% of this country's taxes, is nothing less than slight of hand bull crapola.

 

[Mr Natural]

Thank GOD for the rich, eh?

For those of you who claim to be fiscal conservatives?

That compromise?

It will cost $80 Billion going to six million unemployed.

The other $720 billlion is it will cost comes in the form of tax breaks, the vast majority of which goes to millionaires and billionaires.

A rather telling example of Republican fical conservism in action

The only time many of us seem to care about being fically conservative is when being conservative hurts working Americans.

As this example so obviously show us.

Just admit, boys, you folks truly hate the working people in this nation.

Yes, they do. And the reason being is that workers (like taxes) represent yet another drain on their precious money resources.

At any given moment, there are meetings going on in company boardrooms as to how to shed workers and relieve themselves of these burdensome labor costs.

Is it any wonder that the stronghold of the republican party (and it's bastard stepchild conservatism) is in the South where they actually once fought a war so they could keep their free labor?

And isn't this the exact kind of shit that led to the communist revolution in Russia in 1917?

 

[Wry Catcher]

"In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2010)."

From the study: Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

 

[martybegan]

they DO NOT pay 38% of the TAXES.....

we only collect 1 trillion in income taxes, the other trillion we collect in taxes are PAYROLL taxes, and gas taxes and cigarette taxes....

and SS surplus taxes are being USED to PAY for what income taxes should be paying for........

to the tune of 200 to 300 billion a year of the lowly worker's surplus SS taxes, of which the wealthiest pay near ZIP of....

Listen, the numbers change from year to year, and depending upon what you include, not include. The number i quoted was based on income taxes only. Lets just go to the fact that the top 20% of the earners in this country carry most of the tax burden, be it from federal income, to state, to local.

SS was never intended to be another tax, it was intended to be a giant pension system you pay into, and then get in proportion to what you paid into. That is why it is capped. If you want to remove the cap fine, but at that point it basically becomes another progressive income tax, where people at the higher end pay in more for less.

but the point, is that SS Surplus has paid TRILLIONS of dollars for what income tax revenues should be paying.....so the very wealthiest who supposedly pay for most of our income taxes to run the country ARE NOT PAYING for this....are not paying the $300 or so billion a year, that the worker's Surplus SS taxes are being used to do....

We collect a trillion or so in income taxes each year, but we also collect about a trillion in SS taxes each year....of which 1/3 of these SS taxes are being used as "income taxes" so to say that the workers in this country pay CRAP in taxes to pay for this country and to say that the wealthiest pay some huge percentage of our income taxes is nothing less than deceiving....the wealthiest want you to THINK they are fronting the whole bill or 40% of this country's taxes, is nothing less than slight of hand bull crapola.

But they still pay a majority of the 1 trillion in personal income taxes, a point you just seem to gloss over. And please find where I said the lower 80% pays crap.

The top 20%, when you factor in ALL levels of taxation floats most of the goverment in this country. That is the nature of a progessive taxation system, and again I have no issue with a fair one, but the constant claim that the wealthy are not "paying thier fair share" is nothing but jelousy and class warfare.

 

[martybegan]

they DO NOT pay 38% of the TAXES.....

we only collect 1 trillion in income taxes, the other trillion we collect in taxes are PAYROLL taxes, and gas taxes and cigarette taxes....

and SS surplus taxes are being USED to PAY for what income taxes should be paying for........

to the tune of 200 to 300 billion a year of the lowly worker's surplus SS taxes, of which the wealthiest pay near ZIP of....

Listen, the numbers change from year to year, and depending upon what you include, not include. The number i quoted was based on income taxes only. Lets just go to the fact that the top 20% of the earners in this country carry most of the tax burden, be it from federal income, to state, to local.

SS was never intended to be another tax, it was intended to be a giant pension system you pay into, and then get in proportion to what you paid into. That is why it is capped. If you want to remove the cap fine, but at that point it basically becomes another progressive income tax, where people at the higher end pay in more for less.

Suggested reading for Martybegan:

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

I read it. My main take from it is that mostly wealth distribution has remained the same, with most of the gain made by the 2-19% group, which probably represents professionals and small-mid sized business owners. The only thing the prof really goes after is CEO pay.

Its good on data, but really doesnt say HOW to address balancing wealth. I'm sure most of our liberal friends on this board will reply with TAX THEM TO THE GROUND, but as I stated in another post, to me taxation is to fund goverment, not to right the percieved wrongs of society.

So again it all boils down to jelousy. Unlike some people here I really dont care that person X has more money than me, and I realize that unless the goverment gives me his money directly taxing him until he is poor does nothing for me.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Listen, the numbers change from year to year, and depending upon what you include, not include. The number i quoted was based on income taxes only. Lets just go to the fact that the top 20% of the earners in this country carry most of the tax burden, be it from federal income, to state, to local.

SS was never intended to be another tax, it was intended to be a giant pension system you pay into, and then get in proportion to what you paid into. That is why it is capped. If you want to remove the cap fine, but at that point it basically becomes another progressive income tax, where people at the higher end pay in more for less.

but the point, is that SS Surplus has paid TRILLIONS of dollars for what income tax revenues should be paying.....so the very wealthiest who supposedly pay for most of our income taxes to run the country ARE NOT PAYING for this....are not paying the $300 or so billion a year, that the worker's Surplus SS taxes are being used to do....

We collect a trillion or so in income taxes each year, but we also collect about a trillion in SS taxes each year....of which 1/3 of these SS taxes are being used as "income taxes" so to say that the workers in this country pay CRAP in taxes to pay for this country and to say that the wealthiest pay some huge percentage of our income taxes is nothing less than deceiving....the wealthiest want you to THINK they are fronting the whole bill or 40% of this country's taxes, is nothing less than slight of hand bull crapola.

But they still pay a majority of the 1 trillion in personal income taxes, a point you just seem to gloss over. And please find where I said the lower 80% pays crap.

The top 20%, when you factor in ALL levels of taxation floats most of the goverment in this country. That is the nature of a progessive taxation system, and again I have no issue with a fair one, but the constant claim that the wealthy are not "paying thier fair share" is nothing but jelousy and class warfare.

No it is not. I suggest you read the link I've posted on several threads, and tried to bring to your attention above.
The question comes down to this: Do you believe in the principles of democracy?
If you do, then you must begin to question tax policy, Citizens United v. FEC and the asserted policies of the Republican Party.
Our democratic institutions are at risk, and if we are not already a plutocracy we are fast becoming one.

 

[Truthmatters]

defect. deflect defect you talked of entering the kingdom of GOd.. you don't believe in god. you izz a atheist.

Willow , the OP asked his god to bless the rich.

I quoted the OPs religion on what they think of the rich.

Why cant you understand that ?


Now should Jesus have whipped the poor for being too lazy to be rich like many on the right here are saying about them?

Why is it so many christains seem to twist their own religion to fit their political view?

They seem to put party even over what Jesus taught.

If a man will not work, he shall not eat. 2 Thessalonians 3:10

I guess you are then agreeing with the idea that jesus should have been whipping the poor people instead of the money changers?

 

[martybegan]

but the point, is that SS Surplus has paid TRILLIONS of dollars for what income tax revenues should be paying.....so the very wealthiest who supposedly pay for most of our income taxes to run the country ARE NOT PAYING for this....are not paying the $300 or so billion a year, that the worker's Surplus SS taxes are being used to do....

We collect a trillion or so in income taxes each year, but we also collect about a trillion in SS taxes each year....of which 1/3 of these SS taxes are being used as "income taxes" so to say that the workers in this country pay CRAP in taxes to pay for this country and to say that the wealthiest pay some huge percentage of our income taxes is nothing less than deceiving....the wealthiest want you to THINK they are fronting the whole bill or 40% of this country's taxes, is nothing less than slight of hand bull crapola.

But they still pay a majority of the 1 trillion in personal income taxes, a point you just seem to gloss over. And please find where I said the lower 80% pays crap.

The top 20%, when you factor in ALL levels of taxation floats most of the goverment in this country. That is the nature of a progessive taxation system, and again I have no issue with a fair one, but the constant claim that the wealthy are not "paying thier fair share" is nothing but jelousy and class warfare.

No it is not. I suggest you read the link I've posted on several threads, and tried to bring to your attention above.
The question comes down to this: Do you believe in the principles of democracy?
If you do, then you must begin to question tax policy, Citizens United v. FEC and the asserted policies of the Republican Party.
Our democratic institutions are at risk, and if we are not already a plutocracy we are fast becoming one.

"Our democratic Institutions are at risk" is code word for "I dont want people who disagree with me to be able to spread thier opinions." What is the difference between a coproration and a PAC, a lobbying group, a union, or even a political organziation? If one large group of people is allowed to spend $$ on elections, why shouldnt all large groups of people be able to?

I find it comical that people against the "plutocracy" try to use government as thier means of balancing out class differences, as governments more often than not are the easiest organizations to mutate into oppression. Giving the government more money (not yours of course, let someone else fund my agenda) and power is far more dangerous than allowing rich people to keep thier earnings, and corporations to have a say in policy. remember the government is the one with the army and all those guns. I dont see the 3rd Citicorp divison's base anywhere. Using governement to take power from those you dont agree with results in the government getting that power, not you. You end up with an upper class of burecrats replacing the upper class of capitalists, with no change in the levels below.

 

[martybegan]

Thank GOD for the rich, eh?

For those of you who claim to be fiscal conservatives?

That compromise?

It will cost $80 Billion going to six million unemployed.

The other $720 billlion is it will cost comes in the form of tax breaks, the vast majority of which goes to millionaires and billionaires.

A rather telling example of Republican fical conservism in action

The only time many of us seem to care about being fically conservative is when being conservative hurts working Americans.

As this example so obviously show us.

Just admit, boys, you folks truly hate the working people in this nation.

Yes, they do. And the reason being is that workers (like taxes) represent yet another drain on their precious money resources.

At any given moment, there are meetings going on in company boardrooms as to how to shed workers and relieve themselves of these burdensome labor costs.

Is it any wonder that the stronghold of the republican party (and it's bastard stepchild conservatism) is in the South where they actually once fought a war so they could keep their free labor?

And isn't this the exact kind of shit that led to the communist revolution in Russia in 1917?

And that revolution led to the Bolshevik Elite replacing the nobility, with little improvement for the workers and peasants, as well as that whole KGB/Gulag thing.

 

[Sallow]

Thank GOD for the rich, eh?

For those of you who claim to be fiscal conservatives?

That compromise?

It will cost $80 Billion going to six million unemployed.

The other $720 billlion is it will cost comes in the form of tax breaks, the vast majority of which goes to millionaires and billionaires.

A rather telling example of Republican fical conservism in action

The only time many of us seem to care about being fically conservative is when being conservative hurts working Americans.

As this example so obviously show us.

Just admit, boys, you folks truly hate the working people in this nation.

Yes, they do. And the reason being is that workers (like taxes) represent yet another drain on their precious money resources.

At any given moment, there are meetings going on in company boardrooms as to how to shed workers and relieve themselves of these burdensome labor costs.

Is it any wonder that the stronghold of the republican party (and it's bastard stepchild conservatism) is in the South where they actually once fought a war so they could keep their free labor?

And isn't this the exact kind of shit that led to the communist revolution in Russia in 1917?

And that revolution led to the Bolshevik Elite replacing the nobility, with little improvement for the workers and peasants, as well as that whole KGB/Gulag thing.

Which basically points out that concentrating wealth into few hands translates to revolutions which don't necessarily lead to good outcomes.

 

[Truthmatters]

They refuse to answer wether Jesus was whipping the wrong people.


Their view of the world ( wealthy as the best people who walk the earth and that we would all starve without them).

They also think the poor are poor on purpose because they are all lazy and worthless leaches.


That is the very opposite of what their religious leader taught.

Jesus whipped the money changers for being unfair to the poor.

He did not whip the poor for being to "stupid" and "lazy" to be rich.

 

[martybegan]

Yes, they do. And the reason being is that workers (like taxes) represent yet another drain on their precious money resources.

At any given moment, there are meetings going on in company boardrooms as to how to shed workers and relieve themselves of these burdensome labor costs.

Is it any wonder that the stronghold of the republican party (and it's bastard stepchild conservatism) is in the South where they actually once fought a war so they could keep their free labor?

And isn't this the exact kind of shit that led to the communist revolution in Russia in 1917?

And that revolution led to the Bolshevik Elite replacing the nobility, with little improvement for the workers and peasants, as well as that whole KGB/Gulag thing.

Which basically points out that concentrating wealth into few hands translates to revolutions which don't necessarily lead to good outcomes.

Revolutions are also about power. While as, wrycatcher points out, power and wealth often go hand in hand, our system, despite what those on the left say, seperate the two far better than other systems. The fatal flaw of communism was that it concentrated power far too much in a single entity, the party (and through them the government.) Even if the intentions were noble all it takes is a group of people or one person(stalin) to corrupt the system to a point where, as I stated above, you replace one nobility with another.

 

[Truthmatters]

Communism is dying you fool.

Its the corporatization of the worlds govs that now threatens the world and our country.

 

[Mr Natural]

And that revolution led to the Bolshevik Elite replacing the nobility, with little improvement for the workers and peasants, as well as that whole KGB/Gulag thing.

Which basically points out that concentrating wealth into few hands translates to revolutions which don't necessarily lead to good outcomes.

Revolutions are also about power. While as, wrycatcher points out, power and wealth often go hand in hand, our system, despite what those on the left say, seperate the two far better than other systems. The fatal flaw of communism was that it concentrated power far too much in a single entity, the party (and through them the government.) Even if the intentions were noble all it takes is a group of people or one person(stalin) to corrupt the system to a point where, as I stated above, you replace one nobility with another.

So what's your answer? Relieve the tax burden on the wealthy and shift it downstream to working people?

What sense does that make?

 

[martybegan]

Communism is dying you fool.

Its the corporatization of the worlds govs that now threatens the world and our country.

You didnt get my point you blithering idiot (see? I can name call too)

Go back under the bridge, adults are talking.

 

[Sallow]

And that revolution led to the Bolshevik Elite replacing the nobility, with little improvement for the workers and peasants, as well as that whole KGB/Gulag thing.

Which basically points out that concentrating wealth into few hands translates to revolutions which don't necessarily lead to good outcomes.

Revolutions are also about power. While as, wrycatcher points out, power and wealth often go hand in hand, our system, despite what those on the left say, seperate the two far better than other systems. The fatal flaw of communism was that it concentrated power far too much in a single entity, the party (and through them the government.) Even if the intentions were noble all it takes is a group of people or one person(stalin) to corrupt the system to a point where, as I stated above, you replace one nobility with another.

No they ain't.

They're about desperation.

Get a fucking clue.

 

[Truthmatters]

You are not talking adultly , you are spewing right wing hack bullshit non stop.

 

[martybegan]

Which basically points out that concentrating wealth into few hands translates to revolutions which don't necessarily lead to good outcomes.

Revolutions are also about power. While as, wrycatcher points out, power and wealth often go hand in hand, our system, despite what those on the left say, seperate the two far better than other systems. The fatal flaw of communism was that it concentrated power far too much in a single entity, the party (and through them the government.) Even if the intentions were noble all it takes is a group of people or one person(stalin) to corrupt the system to a point where, as I stated above, you replace one nobility with another.

So what's your answer? Relieve the tax burden on the wealthy and shift it downstream to working people?

What sense does that make?

The answer is to simply the tax code, while at the same time returning government to what it was origninally intended to do. Reduce the redundancy at all levels, federal, state, local.

I would change the income tax into a true Income tax. Money in is money in. This would allow for a lowering of all rates across the board. I would also remove 90% of the deductions currently allowed, so peoples listed rate is close to the actual rate.

For the short term I can see having to lift the SS cap, but in doing so I would reduce the rate at the same time. It would be come a progressive tax, but at least the cost would lower in general.