Tax the rich, lose the rich

[cad]

QUOTE]

The main problem with the conservative mindset is that the theoretical possibility that anyone can get rich DOES NOT mean there's a level playing field. Yes, it is certainly possible for someone to grow up in a trailer park and become a billionaire. But it's a lot easier for a millionaire to become a billionaire.[/QUOTE]

let's forget the talk about millionaires and billionaires. the real genius of america is not the ability to make the jump from rich to super-rich. the real genius of america is the story of the guy who sails across the sea or crosses the desert to work two jobs cleaning toilets in a restaurant. he has a child and that child graduates high school and joins the military. this man has a child, who becomes the first in his family to actually go to college. this child gets a job as an accountant, where after 30 years makes vp of a small firm. his child follows in his footsteps and joins the accounting firm, only to leave ten years later to start his own small, 3 person firm. eventually, the firm grows and at some point he will need to hire a janitor. and the cycle continues.

that is the story of america, and it is very much alive today.

 

[Truthmatters]

Is the Middle Class Shrinking in America? wltx.com | Columbia, SC News, Weather and Sports |

 

[boedicca]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/125927-a-list-of-truthmattersnots-lies.html


Remember this thread Boody?

You were caught red handed in a lie.

Now go get one single lie of mine.

Get a room. We are having a useful debate here.

I get to respond when being called A LIAR BY A LIAR.

Now do want to explain why you hate the working class so much and want to keep the distruction of the middle class going by giving gravy train special treament to the Uber wealthy?

Can you explain why you hate anyone who is better off than you so much and why you want to keep the destruction of the productive, private sector going by giving the gravy train special treatment to politicians, government bureaucrats, and their cronies?

 

[Jarhead]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/125927-a-list-of-truthmattersnots-lies.html


Remember this thread Boody?

You were caught red handed in a lie.

Now go get one single lie of mine.

Get a room. We are having a useful debate here.

I get to respond when being called A LIAR BY A LIAR.

Now do want to explain why you hate the working class so much and want to keep the distruction of the middle class going by giving gravy train special treament to the Uber wealthy?

Becuase to me, the working class is a waste of good oxygen and the uber wealthy are the ones that I think about at night when I masturbate.

You are too warped a thinker for my logic. I am done with you with this debate as I have ended others with you. I did the best I can.....but you simply want to spew your crap.

Go for it.

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/125927-a-list-of-truthmattersnots-lies.html


Remember this thread Boody?

You were caught red handed in a lie.

Now go get one single lie of mine.

Follow the instructions in #1 - there you will find the list of your lies.

Enjoy!

Npo lies on that list.

However there is an obvious lie of yours where you fuckup up a thread and then you LIE to pretend hyou didnt.

 

[Truthmatters]

Is the Middle Class Shrinking in America? wltx.com | Columbia, SC News, Weather and Sports |

Explain why the midddle class has been shrinking.

 

[drsmith1072]

They are correct......the country will fail without a healthy middle class.

I believe they are wrong as to how to acheive it.

How is going futher into debt to save the rich going to build a middle class?

I do not see it as you see it.
You see it as saving the rich.
I see it as allwoing the job creators to have the capital TO CREATE JOBS.
Once we start creating jobs, we have an increase in tax revenue. Once we have an increase in tax revenue, we start working on our debt.

Yeah it would be nice if such a fictional world worked with reality but the reality, that most of the right continues to ignore, is the fact that the job creators have been allowed to have their capital but they haven't created jobs with it. Why is it that you continue to ignore this FACT?

Bush's tax cuts are still in effect and have been this whole time and yet where are the jobs?? Why should we give MORE or even extend the taxcuts to get them to create jobs if they haven't done so already?? They had the motivation to do so and chose not to and now the right is arguing that we should allow them to keep the motivation in the HOPES that they will do what they said they would do when they got the motivation the first time around.

 

[Woyzeck]

I love how people "know" what other people are really thinking.

Define "Marxism", if you're so sure that you "know".

Placing less value on individual freedoms than collective interests. Centrally planned economy. Government run or owned industry. Rigid speech and thought control.

You know...all the things leftists love.

Yeah, none of these things are true.

"Marxism" is a anarco-collectivist philosophy. As in, there is no "government" to own anything.

Learn the definitions of words before you use them.

Plus, I don't think you've ever actually met a "leftist". Name one person on this board who is in favor of what you call "rigid speech and thought control".

The closest thing in modern times to a worker's society as leftist philosophies dictate(d) would be parts of Spain during the Spanish Civil War. It didn't last long.

 

[Bern80]

American workers have... and for less money too.

Enter problem number two of the liberal mindset: Everything is predestined. You have no control over your future, your opportunities for making money float in the wind and luck cloud may land on you or it may not....according to liberals.

The main problem with the conservative mindset is that the theoretical possibility that anyone can get rich DOES NOT mean there's a level playing field. Yes, it is certainly possible for someone to grow up in a trailer park and become a billionaire. But it's a lot easier for a millionaire to become a billionaire.

I don't think conservatives are deluded into thinking there is an even playing field for everyone. That is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. The rest you say is indeed true. Is it somehow inherently wrong for some to have that advantage? Are we thus suppossed to even the playing field to correct for it? Is the best way to do that to punish the rich for being successfull? How does that help the unsuccessful?

 

[boedicca]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/125927-a-list-of-truthmattersnots-lies.html


Remember this thread Boody?

You were caught red handed in a lie.

Now go get one single lie of mine.

Follow the instructions in #1 - there you will find the list of your lies.

Enjoy!

Npo lies on that list.

However there is an obvious lie of yours where you fuckup up a thread and then you LIE to pretend hyou didnt.

Wow. You are so congenitally compulsive that you no longer recognize when you are lying.

How sad.

 

[Bern80]

American workers have... and for less money too.

Enter problem number two of the liberal mindset: Everything is predestined. You have no control over your future, your opportunities for making money float in the wind and luck cloud may land on you or it may not....according to liberals.

yea bern.. go tell that to all those starving humans in Ethiopia who, apparently, just need to learn where their own bootstraps are located.

Which does not apply to people like you and the whiners on this board. Thanks for contributing more nonsense.


Now, who want to place a bet with me on how many posts before Shogun references beggars on the streets of Calcutta......anyone?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The main problem with the conservative mindset is that the theoretical possibility that anyone can get rich DOES NOT mean there's a level playing field. Yes, it is certainly possible for someone to grow up in a trailer park and become a billionaire. But it's a lot easier for a millionaire to become a billionaire.

let's forget the talk about millionaires and billionaires. the real genius of america is not the ability to make the jump from rich to super-rich. the real genius of america is the story of the guy who sails across the sea or crosses the desert to work two jobs cleaning toilets in a restaurant. he has a child and that child graduates high school and joins the military. this man has a child, who becomes the first in his family to actually go to college. this child gets a job as an accountant, where after 30 years makes vp of a small firm. his child follows in his footsteps and joins the accounting firm, only to leave ten years later to start his own small, 3 person firm. eventually, the firm grows and at some point he will need to hire a janitor. and the cycle continues.

that is the story of america, and it is very much alive today.

First of all, learn to use the quote function. It makes everything you post hard to read.

And I don't disagree with you - this is the legacy of America. You're going to make the argument that this is an example of the conservative "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality.

That's true as well. But this legacy also wouldn't exist without labor improvements that allowed people to save money, the civil rights movement that allowed ALL people these opportunities, etc etc.

There are two sides to everything.

 

[Shogun]

Enter problem number two of the liberal mindset: Everything is predestined. You have no control over your future, your opportunities for making money float in the wind and luck cloud may land on you or it may not....according to liberals.

yea bern.. go tell that to all those starving humans in Ethiopia who, apparently, just need to learn where their own bootstraps are located.

Which does not apply to people like you and the whiners on this board. Thanks for contributing more nonsense.


Now, who want to place a bet with me on how many posts before Shogun references beggars on the streets of Calcutta......anyone?

sure it does. You assume that individuals are the sum total influence in their personal income. You can't deny that opportunity is starkly limited in Ethiopia like you can when ignoring the reality of a starved middle class in America. Feel free to either admit you are wrong or dance around the facts some more.


Indeed, those beggars on the streets of calcutta probably have no idea where their own bootstraps are too, RIGHT BERN?

 

[Samson]

Follow the instructions in #1 - there you will find the list of your lies.

Enjoy!

Npo lies on that list.

However there is an obvious lie of yours where you fuckup up a thread and then you LIE to pretend hyou didnt.

Wow. You are so congenitally compulsive that you no longer recognize when you are lying.

How sad.

Way above her congenitally pointed little head:

con·geni·tal

adjective

existing as such at birth: a congenital disease
existing as if inborn; inherent: a congenital cheerfulness

 

[drsmith1072]

I do not see it as you see it.
You see it as saving the rich.
I see it as allwoing the job creators to have the capital TO CREATE JOBS.

The problem is, what YOU are not seeing is that THEY ARE NOT CREATING JOBS WITH IT - they obviously have the capital - 80% of the wealth is in their posession. The fact is, they are shipping more and more jobs overseas to increase profits by exploiting slave labor and no environmental reguation. Now they have higher profits and lower taxes and they are becoming richer and richer faster and faster while the rest of us are drowning - they had Bush's tax cuts for almost a decade. WHERE ARE THE JOBS???

They?
Yes, there are some shipping jobs overseas. SOME. NOT ALL. But you tell me...exactly how do you think countries overseas will react if we pulled all of our jobs back here? You think Japan will keep their plants open here or bring their jobs back to Japan to make up for the lost jobs?

Where are the jobs?

We were in a recession. It was expected. Some jobs are lost in a recesssion. But then, as is expected, one of the candidates decided to play in it and call it the beginnig of a depression...that was to get votes. But it did more. IT SCARED THE HELL OUT OF PEOPLE. So they started to lay off out of fear. Then it spiraled.

Then came the stimulus. What does a stimulus do? It gives people reason to be reactive not pro-active. So people sat around and waited for it to kick in. Less people spending, more layoffs. It never really kicked in....still waiting.

Then came the health care bill. What did that do? Told employers the cost of each employee will be going up. MORE reason to not want to hire.

Then came the threat of losing the tax cuts. MORE REASON not to hire.

Thats where the jobs are.

LOL so even if they get more tax cuts or we extend bush's tax cuts to the job creators will still not create jobs because we are in a recession so what is the point of allowing them to keep the capital if they aren't willing to follow through with their end of the deal??

FEAR so do you also have a distaste for the fear that the right is using to try and gain in the upcoming election?? mccain made similar comments so why only focus on one candidate?? Furthermore didn't W even talk about it??

The fact is that they had the motivation that they wanted in order for them to hire and just like you they made lame excuses as to why they weren't hiring although your lame excuses seem to have more a political motivation as you seem to only want to be critical of one side as you give the obstructionist right a pass.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Enter problem number two of the liberal mindset: Everything is predestined. You have no control over your future, your opportunities for making money float in the wind and luck cloud may land on you or it may not....according to liberals.

The main problem with the conservative mindset is that the theoretical possibility that anyone can get rich DOES NOT mean there's a level playing field. Yes, it is certainly possible for someone to grow up in a trailer park and become a billionaire. But it's a lot easier for a millionaire to become a billionaire.

I don't think conservatives are deluded into thinking there is an even playing field for everyone. That is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. The rest you say is indeed true. Is it somehow inherently wrong for some to have that advantage? Are we thus suppossed to even the playing field to correct for it? Is the best way to do that to punish the rich for being successfull? How does that help the unsuccessful?

It's certainly not inherently wrong. I'm lucky enough that when (god forbid) my parents die, they'll leave me with a decent pile of money. And no, we don't need to completely even the playing field, that's not possible. But in the last 20 years, the financial policies of this country have been designed to widen the gap. Do you think that's the best way?

 

[Shogun]

Enter problem number two of the liberal mindset: Everything is predestined. You have no control over your future, your opportunities for making money float in the wind and luck cloud may land on you or it may not....according to liberals.

The main problem with the conservative mindset is that the theoretical possibility that anyone can get rich DOES NOT mean there's a level playing field. Yes, it is certainly possible for someone to grow up in a trailer park and become a billionaire. But it's a lot easier for a millionaire to become a billionaire.

I don't think conservatives are deluded into thinking there is an even playing field for everyone. That is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. The rest you say is indeed true. Is it somehow inherently wrong for some to have that advantage? Are we thus suppossed to even the playing field to correct for it? Is the best way to do that to punish the rich for being successfull? How does that help the unsuccessful?

b-b-b-but BERN! Didn't you JUST SAY.....

"Enter problem number two of the liberal mindset: Everything is predestined. You have no control over your future, your opportunities for making money float in the wind and luck cloud may land on you or it may not....according to liberals."





nice waffle.

 

[cad]

so here we are in 2010. who is being held down today?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Placing less value on individual freedoms than collective interests. Centrally planned economy. Government run or owned industry. Rigid speech and thought control.

You know...all the things leftists love.

Yeah, none of these things are true.

"Marxism" is a anarco-collectivist philosophy. As in, there is no "government" to own anything.

Learn the definitions of words before you use them.

Plus, I don't think you've ever actually met a "leftist". Name one person on this board who is in favor of what you call "rigid speech and thought control".

The closest thing in modern times to a worker's society as leftist philosophies dictate(d) would be parts of Spain during the Spanish Civil War. It didn't last long.

Or on a tiny scale, communes and kibbutzes. Which of course only work on a very small scale.

 

[Jarhead]

How is going futher into debt to save the rich going to build a middle class?

I do not see it as you see it.
You see it as saving the rich.
I see it as allwoing the job creators to have the capital TO CREATE JOBS.
Once we start creating jobs, we have an increase in tax revenue. Once we have an increase in tax revenue, we start working on our debt.

Yeah it would be nice if such a fictional world worked with reality but the reality, that most of the right continues to ignore, is the fact that the job creators have been allowed to have their capital but they haven't created jobs with it. Why is it that you continue to ignore this FACT?

Bush's tax cuts are still in effect and have been this whole time and yet where are the jobs?? Why should we give MORE or even extend the taxcuts to get them to create jobs if they haven't done so already?? They had the motivation to do so and chose not to and now the right is arguing that we should allow them to keep the motivation in the HOPES that they will do what they said they would do when they got the motivation the first time around.

We are in a recession.
We were told that our cost to employ is going up due to healthcare reform.
We are in a recession.
We are told that our taxes are going up due to the tax cut roll backs.
We are in a recession.

Example....real example...

I own a small business.
I made good money up until 2 years ago.
My house value went down so I can not count on capital from my house.
I have not laid off.
Business is slow (recession).
I take home less now than one of my employees as I did not lower her salary...I opted to take less home.
I was told that my cost to employ is going up due to healthcare.
I will NOT lower her salary or anyone elses in my empoly, so if business does not pick up I will take home even less than I am now making it real tight.
I am now going to have my taxes raised...giving me even LESS to take home.
Business is still slow.
Taking even less home may put me in a position to have to lay off so I can meet my bills.
If I dont meet my bills, I go bankrupt and ALL of my employees lose their jobs.

So call it what you want. Call me evil. Tell me I hate the working class.

Say whatever you want.

You tell me excactly what I should do?