Tax Cuts Who needs them

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sagegirl, Oct 17, 2004.

  1. sagegirl
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    sagegirl Member

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    I havent seen much on the tax cut issue. I for one dont understand why. I think we get alot for our tax dollars and dond know why everybody wants a cut. We get defense, homeland security, social security, medicare,...we get departments of energy, justice, education, health and human services, we get agencies, fcc, fda, faa, epa, irs, gao, treasury, transportation, our federal employees, the list goes on and on. Then we have the huge bureauracies that overseer and regulate all of this. Republicans say they want less government, but I can say in all honestly that when I see people wanting or using these services, republicans and democrats alike, they expect that they will be safe and protected. I have not asked for or directly received any government welfare, disability, unemployment, tax credits, etc. but I acknowledge that I and everyone else benefit indirectly from so many of these programs. I know about pork barrel projects and lets face it both sides are guilty as can be on this, so I know spending could be controlled. Even if we had carefully calculated budgets we still get alot for our tax dollars. Is it just the politicians using us as when they tell us we need tax cuts, sure it sounds good but we have to pay for all this somehow.
     
  2. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    The answer to your premise lies within your own statement:



    If you are an independent-minded person who works for a living and believes that you are entitled to reap the rewards of your efforts, then the detrimental effects of the ever increasing burden of taxation should be obvious.

    If, on the other hand, you see government as your "daddy" who provides for all your needs, then you would not understand why we need to reduce the amount of money going to our government and any further discussion would be pointless.
     
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  3. sagegirl
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    sagegirl Member

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    I see it both ways...we pay and we get something for what we pay for. What I wonder is why tax cuts are the issue....isnt the issue what they spend the money on. And if you dont think you receive alot of indirect or direct benefit from the taxes you pay, you arent paying attention. Please excuse the pun. And the rich have the most to loose thus they should pay proportionally.
     
  4. MtnBiker
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    MtnBiker Senior Member

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    What proportion do you believe they pay now?
     
  5. MtnBiker
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    MtnBiker Senior Member

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    Taxes are the means by which the government collects revenue, not only is it a matter of ideology like Merlin pointed out. It is also an economic belief of maximizing tax revenue from the economy. Too much tax burden will diminish people's willingness to produce, too little tax will create a shortcoming in the tax revenue.

    Here is a link to one approach, the Laffer Curve:

    http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7478&postcount=6

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    Anything that government provides is too expensive in more ways than one.

    Monetarily speaking, government programs are a huge waste of money. Generally every service provided by government costs far more than it should. Certainly we derive some benefit from government programs. My point is that I can do without them.

    Government should limit itself to its core functions. It should provide for the defense of this nation, it should deal with other nations, it should coordinate efforts between the states on things like transportation, law enforcement, and infrastructure and it should set national priorities on things like energy production, the environment, mass transit, space exploration etc.

    The reason I fear government "benefits" brings me to the second and far more serious consequence of paying too many taxes - government "programs". Every "program" sponsored by the government costs us a little bit of our freedom. Example; the federal government confiscates part of my salary. They return some of that money in the form of highway construction funds and education grants. But there are always conditions. In return for giving me my money back for highway construction, the federal government sets ridiculously low speed limits. In return for giving me my money back in the form of education grants to colleges and universities, the federal government insinuates itself onto the college campus. The outrageous thing is that the money we're getting from the feds was OUR money to begin with. Now they're telling us that we have to dance to their tune in order to get a piece of it back. How ridiculous is that?

    Even worse than attaching conditions to returning my money to me, is the notorious "unfunded mandate". Whereby the feds tell us we won't get money for highways or education if we fail to comply with their policies on something that ISN'T getting any fed tax money to begin with.

    You bet your butt I'm paying attention. Apparently I'm not looking at the government through the same rose-colored glasses that seem to be restricting your vision.

    Finally, your assertion that "And the rich have the most to loose thus they should pay proportionally" is puzzling. Do you mean that the rich should pay the same rate of income tax as you or I? If you do, then we're going to lose a whole lot of tax income because the rich pay a much higher percentage than the middle class. Except for kerry, who somehow managed to pay a percentage rate far less than I did last year. So maybe, in a limited sense, you have a point there.
     
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  7. drowe
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    drowe Member

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    Here is our tax system broken down "Barney Style"
     
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  8. sagegirl
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    sagegirl Member

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    Merlin, points well taken. I couldnt agree more. I am not looking at this through rosey glasses. Thats why I ask the question, the campaign seems to be telling me that all these special government programs, no child left behind, affirmative action, on and on, are so important but then they tell us they will give us tax cuts to make us feel good. I say if they want to deliver the goods then they gotta tax us. We get plenty enough government for our bucks already, actually more than we can afford if you consider the huge deficit. Personally, I am not for all this government in our lives, the less the better. I am for each of us taking responsibility for ourselves, acting responsibly, and being left alone to make our own decisions as to what we want. As for the percentages for taxing I dont know alot about it, I do know that the really rich in this country are getting the most benefit from it, one might say the security to enjoy their wealth. When you are poor its a hard to rationalize the effort to make things better for somebody over in afghanistan , or whereever. It is hard for me to articulate how I feel about it...I consider myself to be middle class, not rich, and I know that I live better than a whole lot of people, but that has alot to do with lifestyle and priorities.
     
  9. MtnBiker
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    MtnBiker Senior Member

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    That tenth man obviously was not John Kerry, with his tax percentage paid he would have been eating very cheaply.
     
  10. sagegirl
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    sagegirl Member

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    I dont know, I know they can and do take advantage of loopholes, but then I see everyday folks take advantage when they can, where they can. I dont have any solutions I just like to bring up issues. I enjoy the process.
     

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