Students Will Stay After School 20 Minutes Each Day to Make Up For Teacher Sick-Outs

[Seawytch]

Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year. It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do – babysit. We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan– that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.

However, remember they only work 180 days a year. I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on. My calculator needs new batteries.)

What about those special education teachers and the ones with master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here. There sure is.

The average teacher’s salary (nationwide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student– a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)

WHAT A DEAL!

I can't decide whether your post is funny or just incredibly stupid.

So, point out what makes it so "stupid".

 

[Seawytch]

From the NY Times:

Until a few decades ago, employment discrimination perversely strengthened our teaching force. Brilliant women became elementary school teachers, because better jobs weren’t open to them. It was profoundly unfair, but the discrimination did benefit America’s children.

These days, brilliant women become surgeons and investment bankers — and 47 percent of America’s kindergarten through 12th-grade teachers come from the bottom one-third of their college classes (as measured by SAT scores). The figure is from a study by McKinsey & Company, “Closing the Talent Gap”

Changes in relative pay have reinforced the problem. In 1970, in New York City, a newly minted teacher at a public school earned about $2,000 less in salary than a starting lawyer at a prominent law firm. These days the lawyer takes home, including bonus, $115,000 more than the teacher, the McKinsey study found. [...]

One Los Angeles study found that having a teacher from the 25 percent most effective group of teachers for four years in a row would be enough to eliminate the black-white achievement gap.

Recent scholarship suggests that good teachers, even kindergarten teachers, increase their students’ earnings many years later. Eric A. Hanushek of Stanford University found that an excellent teacher (one a standard deviation better than average, or better than 84 percent of teachers) raises each student’s lifetime earnings by $20,000. If there are 20 students in the class, that is an extra $400,000 generated, compared with a teacher who is merely average.

A teacher better than 93 percent of other teachers would add $640,000 to lifetime pay of a class of 20, the study found.

Look, I’m not a fan of teachers’ unions. They used their clout to gain job security more than pay, thus making the field safe for low achievers. Teaching work rules are often inflexible, benefits are generous relative to salaries, and it is difficult or impossible to dismiss teachers who are ineffective.

But none of this means that teachers are overpaid. And if governments nibble away at pensions and reduce job security, then they must pay more in wages to stay even.

Moreover, part of compensation is public esteem. When governors mock teachers as lazy, avaricious incompetents, they demean the profession and make it harder to attract the best and brightest. We should be elevating teachers, not throwing darts at them.

Consider three other countries renowned for their educational performance: Singapore, South Korea and Finland. In each country, teachers are drawn from the top third of their cohort, are hugely respected and are paid well (although that’s less true in Finland). In South Korea and Singapore, teachers on average earn more than lawyers and engineers, the McKinsey study found.

“We’re not going to get better teachers unless we pay them more,” notes Amy Wilkins of the Education Trust, an education reform organization. Likewise, Jeanne Allen of the Center for Education Reform says, “We’re the first people to say, throw them $100,000, throw them whatever it takes.”

Both Ms. Wilkins and Ms. Allen add in the next breath that pay should be for performance, with more rigorous evaluation. That makes sense to me.

Starting teacher pay, which now averages $39,000, would have to rise to $65,000 to fill most new teaching positions in high-needs schools with graduates from the top third of their classes, the McKinsey study found. That would be a bargain.

Indeed, it makes sense to cut corners elsewhere to boost teacher salaries. Research suggests that students would benefit from a tradeoff of better teachers but worse teacher-student ratios. Thus there are growing calls for a Japanese model of larger classes, but with outstanding, respected, well-paid teachers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&src=twrhp

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Hmmm...seems to me that he is typing TO ME....not wasting his typing replying...to them.


This might be too difficult for you. Pity.

Are you that stupid? He directly responded to a post from "them" contradicting his advice to you.

Wise up!

There it is....you can't function without trying to up your self esteem by calling others stupid.


Well, I can see who Marc was talking TO. You? Not so much, apparently.

The answer to my initial question is an obvious "yes" because if you notice I wasn't calling you stupid I was asking if you were stupid. Big difference.

 

[MarcATL]

From the NY Times:

Until a few decades ago, employment discrimination perversely strengthened our teaching force. Brilliant women became elementary school teachers, because better jobs weren’t open to them. It was profoundly unfair, but the discrimination did benefit America’s children.

These days, brilliant women become surgeons and investment bankers — and 47 percent of America’s kindergarten through 12th-grade teachers come from the bottom one-third of their college classes (as measured by SAT scores). The figure is from a study by McKinsey & Company, “Closing the Talent Gap”

Changes in relative pay have reinforced the problem. In 1970, in New York City, a newly minted teacher at a public school earned about $2,000 less in salary than a starting lawyer at a prominent law firm. These days the lawyer takes home, including bonus, $115,000 more than the teacher, the McKinsey study found. [...]

One Los Angeles study found that having a teacher from the 25 percent most effective group of teachers for four years in a row would be enough to eliminate the black-white achievement gap.

Recent scholarship suggests that good teachers, even kindergarten teachers, increase their students’ earnings many years later. Eric A. Hanushek of Stanford University found that an excellent teacher (one a standard deviation better than average, or better than 84 percent of teachers) raises each student’s lifetime earnings by $20,000. If there are 20 students in the class, that is an extra $400,000 generated, compared with a teacher who is merely average.

A teacher better than 93 percent of other teachers would add $640,000 to lifetime pay of a class of 20, the study found.

Look, I’m not a fan of teachers’ unions. They used their clout to gain job security more than pay, thus making the field safe for low achievers. Teaching work rules are often inflexible, benefits are generous relative to salaries, and it is difficult or impossible to dismiss teachers who are ineffective.

But none of this means that teachers are overpaid. And if governments nibble away at pensions and reduce job security, then they must pay more in wages to stay even.

Moreover, part of compensation is public esteem. When governors mock teachers as lazy, avaricious incompetents, they demean the profession and make it harder to attract the best and brightest. We should be elevating teachers, not throwing darts at them.

Consider three other countries renowned for their educational performance: Singapore, South Korea and Finland. In each country, teachers are drawn from the top third of their cohort, are hugely respected and are paid well (although that’s less true in Finland). In South Korea and Singapore, teachers on average earn more than lawyers and engineers, the McKinsey study found.

“We’re not going to get better teachers unless we pay them more,” notes Amy Wilkins of the Education Trust, an education reform organization. Likewise, Jeanne Allen of the Center for Education Reform says, “We’re the first people to say, throw them $100,000, throw them whatever it takes.”

Both Ms. Wilkins and Ms. Allen add in the next breath that pay should be for performance, with more rigorous evaluation. That makes sense to me.

Starting teacher pay, which now averages $39,000, would have to rise to $65,000 to fill most new teaching positions in high-needs schools with graduates from the top third of their classes, the McKinsey study found. That would be a bargain.

Indeed, it makes sense to cut corners elsewhere to boost teacher salaries. Research suggests that students would benefit from a tradeoff of better teachers but worse teacher-student ratios. Thus there are growing calls for a Japanese model of larger classes, but with outstanding, respected, well-paid teachers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&src=twrhp

Excellent post!

 

[bodecea]

Are you that stupid? He directly responded to a post from "them" contradicting his advice to you.

Wise up!

There it is....you can't function without trying to up your self esteem by calling others stupid.


Well, I can see who Marc was talking TO. You? Not so much, apparently.

The answer to my initial question is an obvious "yes" because if you notice I wasn't calling you stupid I was asking if you were stupid. Big difference.

Oh please.... You can't go 5 posts without calling someone else stupid. It's what you do. It's some kind of self affirmation ritual on your part to make yourself feel better.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

There it is....you can't function without trying to up your self esteem by calling others stupid.


Well, I can see who Marc was talking TO. You? Not so much, apparently.

The answer to my initial question is an obvious "yes" because if you notice I wasn't calling you stupid I was asking if you were stupid. Big difference.

Oh please.... You can't go 5 posts without calling someone else stupid. It's what you do. It's some kind of self affirmation ritual on your part to make yourself feel better.

Not my fault liberal's are stupid.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

There it is....you can't function without trying to up your self esteem by calling others stupid.


Well, I can see who Marc was talking TO. You? Not so much, apparently.

The answer to my initial question is an obvious "yes" because if you notice I wasn't calling you stupid I was asking if you were stupid. Big difference.

Oh please.... You can't go 5 posts without calling someone else stupid. It's what you do. It's some kind of self affirmation ritual on your part to make yourself feel better.

Not my fault that liberal's are stupid.

 

[bodecea]

The answer to my initial question is an obvious "yes" because if you notice I wasn't calling you stupid I was asking if you were stupid. Big difference.

Oh please.... You can't go 5 posts without calling someone else stupid. It's what you do. It's some kind of self affirmation ritual on your part to make yourself feel better.

Not my fault liberal's are stupid.

See? Thank you for so quickly proving my point. You needed a self esteem boost right there....and apparently, calling others stupid works for you.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Oh please.... You can't go 5 posts without calling someone else stupid. It's what you do. It's some kind of self affirmation ritual on your part to make yourself feel better.

Not my fault liberal's are stupid.

See? Thank you for so quickly proving my point. You needed a self esteem boost right there....and apparently, calling others stupid works for you.

You didn't make a point so don't flatter yourself.

Calling others stupid is an accurate description and in your case, you keep reinforcing that description with every post.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

This thread might as well end right here because Bodecea will never admit that what those teachers did was wrong.
She will continue to blame parents for students failures.(never teachers failures) And it all boils down to one thing..........she's a teacher with cash on her mind.
Thank god for private schools!!!!!

Hmm, how do you blame a teacher for a student failure? LMAO!!!

So your saying that all teachers are perfect and none of them suck at teaching?
We all know thats BS.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Actually, your post showed us how you are teaching your daughter to admire employees for walking off the job when they are not happy with something.

Hmm, so if your boss stops paying you a wage and benefits, you stay on the job and keep working like a good little suck-ass? LMAO!!!

Ahhhhh.....No. You start looking for a better job. Nobody is forcing you to work there.
And if you have skills you wont have a problem getting a better job. I've found that only people who suck at what they do work for companies that suck.
Funny how that works.

 

[Jarhead]

Actually, your post showed us how you are teaching your daughter to admire employees for walking off the job when they are not happy with something.

Hmm, so if your boss stops paying you a wage and benefits, you stay on the job and keep working like a good little suck-ass? LMAO!!!

Ahhhhh.....No. You start looking for a better job. Nobody is forcing you to work there.
And if you have skills you wont have a problem getting a better job. I've found that only people who suck at what they do work for companies that suck.
Funny how that works.

In my post # 277 I said this in response to his post...and if I recall, Bodecea agreed with him....

It is so sad that people like you and Shintoa see unethical reactions as the only option.
There are so many other options that are available...

1) File a grievance with your boss
2) Contact the labor board if you feel you have been illegally or unethically wronged
3) Look for another job


But to you guys?

Strong arm your employer or sit back and do nothing.

Start thinking out of the box...I know it is tough for people like you....but try it. It works.

Yet, not to my surprise, he NOR Bodecea responded to such logic.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Hmm, so if your boss stops paying you a wage and benefits, you stay on the job and keep working like a good little suck-ass? LMAO!!!

Ahhhhh.....No. You start looking for a better job. Nobody is forcing you to work there.
And if you have skills you wont have a problem getting a better job. I've found that only people who suck at what they do work for companies that suck.
Funny how that works.

In my post # 277 I said this in response to his post...and if I recall, Bodecea agreed with him....

It is so sad that people like you and Shintoa see unethical reactions as the only option.
There are so many other options that are available...

1) File a grievance with your boss
2) Contact the labor board if you feel you have been illegally or unethically wronged
3) Look for another job


But to you guys?

Strong arm your employer or sit back and do nothing.

Start thinking out of the box...I know it is tough for people like you....but try it. It works.

Yet, not to my surprise, he NOR Bodecea responded to such logic.

They're children.. they need some benevolent third party they can run to and hide behind.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

That young lawyer or accountant that puts in 15 hour days has not just the opportunity to earn a very comfortable income but the opportunity to become very wealthy. A teacher's opportunity to advance is very limited. Of course teachers accept the fact they will never become wealthy teaching, but they do expect to be able to earn enough so they can afford a nice home, send their kids to college, and have a decent retirement. For someone who spends 4 to 6 years training to do one of the most important jobs in our country, I don't think that's too much to expect.

Aaaahhh ....you could maybe work a little harder and become a principal?
You know ....that thing you have to do to advance in your chosen career!!!
IT'S CALLED WORK !!!!!!!
And getting rich and being anaccountant is pure BS. In order for that to happen you have to work your ass off and then maybe make controller. Which pays well but you wont get there without working your ass off.
Trust me,my wife did just that......and the hours a teacher works pale in comparision.
Soooooo.....bad example try again.

The point is in a financial field such as accounting or finance you can make a 6 or 7 digit salary or more if you work hard enough, are very capable, and have a lot of luck. There is no chance that a teacher could ever make that kind money without leaving the field of education. A teacher's average salary in the US is $41,000 for elementary and $42,000 for high school The average salary of an accountant in the US is $65,000, 50% higher than the average teacher. For the average teacher to make as much as the average accountant they would have give up teachers and become an assistant principal. For a teacher to qualify for an assistant principal position they would need to get a master's degree costing 10 to 15 thousand dollars. Even then the teacher's chances are not that good. For ever assistant principal there are about 25 or 30 teachers. Teaching is now and always has been financially a dead end job.

Then why in Gods name would you want to be a teacher? Do something else.
Teacher pay is market driven,just like all jobs. When it becomes impossible to hire a teacher for 50 K a year then teacher salaries will go up.
Oh and 42,000 is not half of 65,000. Damn those public schools!!!
People go out and spend thirty grand on a car but wont spend ten to fifteen on an education? I would say they have screwed up priorities.

 

[WorldWatcher]

People go out and spend thirty grand on a car but wont spend ten to fifteen on an education? I would say they have screwed up priorities.

Just so ya now, and costs vary of course, but my daughter is in college now in a good state school. Cost per year is $18,000 for tuition, room, board, and books. That's $72,000 for a four-year degree.


>>>>

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Hmm, so if your boss stops paying you a wage and benefits, you stay on the job and keep working like a good little suck-ass? LMAO!!!

Ahhhhh.....No. You start looking for a better job. Nobody is forcing you to work there.
And if you have skills you wont have a problem getting a better job. I've found that only people who suck at what they do work for companies that suck.
Funny how that works.

In my post # 277 I said this in response to his post...and if I recall, Bodecea agreed with him....

It is so sad that people like you and Shintoa see unethical reactions as the only option.
There are so many other options that are available...

1) File a grievance with your boss
2) Contact the labor board if you feel you have been illegally or unethically wronged
3) Look for another job


But to you guys?

Strong arm your employer or sit back and do nothing.

Start thinking out of the box...I know it is tough for people like you....but try it. It works.

Yet, not to my surprise, he NOR Bodecea responded to such logic.

Yup...i've noticed they ignore any post that would require them to take responsability for there own futures.
I dont know about Bodecea but if I had a job that I felt was underpaying me i'd look for another job.
Not throw a tantrum.

 

[Jarhead]

Aaaahhh ....you could maybe work a little harder and become a principal?
You know ....that thing you have to do to advance in your chosen career!!!
IT'S CALLED WORK !!!!!!!
And getting rich and being anaccountant is pure BS. In order for that to happen you have to work your ass off and then maybe make controller. Which pays well but you wont get there without working your ass off.
Trust me,my wife did just that......and the hours a teacher works pale in comparision.
Soooooo.....bad example try again.

The point is in a financial field such as accounting or finance you can make a 6 or 7 digit salary or more if you work hard enough, are very capable, and have a lot of luck. There is no chance that a teacher could ever make that kind money without leaving the field of education. A teacher's average salary in the US is $41,000 for elementary and $42,000 for high school The average salary of an accountant in the US is $65,000, 50% higher than the average teacher. For the average teacher to make as much as the average accountant they would have give up teachers and become an assistant principal. For a teacher to qualify for an assistant principal position they would need to get a master's degree costing 10 to 15 thousand dollars. Even then the teacher's chances are not that good. For ever assistant principal there are about 25 or 30 teachers. Teaching is now and always has been financially a dead end job.

Then why in Gods name would you want to be a teacher? Do something else.
Teacher pay is market driven,just like all jobs. When it becomes impossible to hire a teacher for 50 K a year then teacher salaries will go up.
Oh and 42,000 is not half of 65,000. Damn those public schools!!!
People go out and spend thirty grand on a car but wont spend ten to fifteen on an education? I would say they have screwed up priorities.

Actually, 65,000 is 50% higher than 42K...well...not exactly.....63K is 50% higher than 42K.

You need to look at it this way....

50% of 42K is 21K....add that to the 42K and you have 63K

So 63K is 50% higher than 42K...

But I agree with the rest of your post

 

[Jarhead]

Ahhhhh.....No. You start looking for a better job. Nobody is forcing you to work there.
And if you have skills you wont have a problem getting a better job. I've found that only people who suck at what they do work for companies that suck.
Funny how that works.

In my post # 277 I said this in response to his post...and if I recall, Bodecea agreed with him....

It is so sad that people like you and Shintoa see unethical reactions as the only option.
There are so many other options that are available...

1) File a grievance with your boss
2) Contact the labor board if you feel you have been illegally or unethically wronged
3) Look for another job


But to you guys?

Strong arm your employer or sit back and do nothing.

Start thinking out of the box...I know it is tough for people like you....but try it. It works.

Yet, not to my surprise, he NOR Bodecea responded to such logic.

Yup...i've noticed they ignore any post that would require them to take responsability for there own futures.
I dont know about Bodecea but if I had a job that I felt was underpaying me i'd look for another job.
Not throw a tantrum.

And if your employer is willing to let you walk out the door?
Well....either you were not as good as you thought you were...or your boss is an idiot and doesnt warrant your talent.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Ahhhhh.....No. You start looking for a better job. Nobody is forcing you to work there.
And if you have skills you wont have a problem getting a better job. I've found that only people who suck at what they do work for companies that suck.
Funny how that works.

In my post # 277 I said this in response to his post...and if I recall, Bodecea agreed with him....

It is so sad that people like you and Shintoa see unethical reactions as the only option.
There are so many other options that are available...

1) File a grievance with your boss
2) Contact the labor board if you feel you have been illegally or unethically wronged
3) Look for another job


But to you guys?

Strong arm your employer or sit back and do nothing.

Start thinking out of the box...I know it is tough for people like you....but try it. It works.

Yet, not to my surprise, he NOR Bodecea responded to such logic.

They're children.. they need some benevolent third party they can run to and hide behind.

Yeah they are... I know if I felt like I was getting stiffed at my work place I wouldnt give them the benefit of my skills.And I sure wouldnt cry to someone else to fix it for me.
I think the best way to show your displeasure is to tell them to kiss my ass.
And if your really worth what you think you are they will work with you and come up with an equitable solution. If not.......it might be time to lower that ego a notch or two.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

In my post # 277 I said this in response to his post...and if I recall, Bodecea agreed with him....

It is so sad that people like you and Shintoa see unethical reactions as the only option.
There are so many other options that are available...

1) File a grievance with your boss
2) Contact the labor board if you feel you have been illegally or unethically wronged
3) Look for another job


But to you guys?

Strong arm your employer or sit back and do nothing.

Start thinking out of the box...I know it is tough for people like you....but try it. It works.

Yet, not to my surprise, he NOR Bodecea responded to such logic.

Yup...i've noticed they ignore any post that would require them to take responsability for there own futures.
I dont know about Bodecea but if I had a job that I felt was underpaying me i'd look for another job.
Not throw a tantrum.

And if your employer is willing to let you walk out the door?
Well....either you were not as good as you thought you were...or your boss is an idiot and doesnt warrant your talent.

Damn!!! Great minds think alike.