Stop lying about the Budget

[Ame®icano]

I heard an Obama mouth piece on TV last night say "the US is cash strapped"

Well now, that is not actually the truth. Saying it that way makes it sound like were just not taking in enough money.

The truth is were taking in more money every year than ever before. By a long shot. The Truth is the BUSH tax cuts caused an increase in revenues to record highs.

It is not that were not taking in enough money, WERE FUCKING SPENDING TO MUCH!!!

You are correct. Tax receipts have gone down somewhat for the past two years because of the recession (which I assume the Obamabots are focusing on), but outlays have gone up significantly.

And they're wanting to spend even more...

As you know, we cant afford not to spend...

 

[Flopper]

The near exponential growth in education costs, social security, medical care and other unconstitutional social spending has nothing to do with this debt does it?

What agencies are already bankrupt to the tune of trillions of dollars in future outlays? Ohhhh that's right. Social Security, Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid. What department is failing our children while increasing it's costs and size at all levels? That's right! The unconstitutional Dept of Education!

You're awfully good at this!

Social Security is funded by the payroll tax. Social Security, as is, is 100% solvent until 2037 and can pay 75% of benefits thereafter. Where's Social Security's money, you ask? It's invested in U.S. bonds,

money the U.S. borrowed to fund military spending that should have been paid for in taxes.

Reagan's military buildup, the first Iraq war, the second Iraq war, the Afghan war, and now the Libyan war were never paid for.

When will you pay for them? Ever?

So now I have to crush you too on this bullshit.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3444690-post108.html

Social Security goes bankrupt

RealClearMarkets - Not In 25 Years, Social Security Is Bankrupt Now

Trust me, Social Security is bankrupt - BostonHerald.com

Medicare And Social Security Are Going Bankrupt And Obama Isn't Even Trying To Fix Them

American Thinker: Why Social Security Will Go Bankrupt Sooner Than People Think

Social Security Goes Bankrupt - HUMAN EVENTS

There. 6 sources from various sides of the spectrum saying your white house numbers are full of shit and the CBO agrees they are too.

Do you bother to read the articles you link to or do you just read the titles? You maintain that the trust fund is bankrupt because the fund is invests in government securities. If that is the case, then most of the insurance companies, state pension plans, and most financial institutions are bankrupt because that’s where they invest their reserves. Further, the trust is invested in government securities because it is require by law and has been for been for over 20 years.

Trust Fund FAQs

 

[Big Fitz]

FBI Agent: "Mr. Gangster, are you giving us all your income information?"

Mr. Gangster: "Of course, Officer. Our books are clean and above board and reproach."

 

[Flopper]

FBI Agent: "Mr. Gangster, are you giving us all your income information?"

Mr. Gangster: "Of course, Officer. Our books are clean and above board and reproach."

Obviously, you don't.

 

[Big Fitz]

FBI Agent: "Mr. Gangster, are you giving us all your income information?"

Mr. Gangster: "Of course, Officer. Our books are clean and above board and reproach."

Obviously, you don't.

Nooo... I deride the use of the SSA's public relations release as proof of their solvency. Congress has been stuffing IOUs in the SS lockbox for decades.

The Trust Fund Myth | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Can we say Ponzi Scheme? I thought we could.

And some more fun too:

http://www.moneynews.com/Headline/Social-Security-Cashing-IOUs/2010/03/15/id/352625

 

[Flopper]

FBI Agent: "Mr. Gangster, are you giving us all your income information?"

Mr. Gangster: "Of course, Officer. Our books are clean and above board and reproach."

Obviously, you don't.

Nooo... I deride the use of the SSA's public relations release as proof of their solvency. Congress has been stuffing IOUs in the SS lockbox for decades.

The Trust Fund Myth | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Can we say Ponzi Scheme? I thought we could.

And some more fun too:

Obama May Have to Borrow From Overseas to Pay Social Security IOUs

Those IOU’s you speak of are special issue treasury notes. Just like dollars in your wallet and other treasury bill and note, they are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government, nothing else, no gold, silver, or any assets. If the US fails to honor any debt obligation, it makes the value of all debt obligations questionable, which would result in a collapse of the economy both US and global. In which case the Social Security Trust Fund would be the least of our worries.

 

[Big Fitz]

Obviously, you don't.

Nooo... I deride the use of the SSA's public relations release as proof of their solvency. Congress has been stuffing IOUs in the SS lockbox for decades.

The Trust Fund Myth | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Can we say Ponzi Scheme? I thought we could.

And some more fun too:

Obama May Have to Borrow From Overseas to Pay Social Security IOUs

Those IOU’s you speak of are special issue treasury notes. Just like dollars in your wallet and other treasury bill and note, they are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government, nothing else, no gold, silver, or any assets. If the US fails to honor any debt obligation, it makes the value of all debt obligations questionable, which would result in a collapse of the economy both US and global. In which case the Social Security Trust Fund would be the least of our worries.

Semantic hogwash.

Where are we going to GET those 'dollars' from? China? The money tree? Fairy Sprinkles? Oh that's right... we'll just PRINT em! That oughta be economic consequence neutral!

News flash for you hombre... the 'full faith and credit' doesn't count quite for so much these days thanks to free spending Greenspan/Bernanke/Bush/Obama and the last two congresses. We're only a few more fuckups away from having our credit rating downgraded and watching our economy go into a flat spin.

 

[The T]

Nooo... I deride the use of the SSA's public relations release as proof of their solvency. Congress has been stuffing IOUs in the SS lockbox for decades.

The Trust Fund Myth | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Can we say Ponzi Scheme? I thought we could.

And some more fun too:

Obama May Have to Borrow From Overseas to Pay Social Security IOUs

Those IOU’s you speak of are special issue treasury notes. Just like dollars in your wallet and other treasury bill and note, they are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government, nothing else, no gold, silver, or any assets. If the US fails to honor any debt obligation, it makes the value of all debt obligations questionable, which would result in a collapse of the economy both US and global. In which case the Social Security Trust Fund would be the least of our worries.

Semantic hogwash.

Where are we going to GET those 'dollars' from? China? The money tree? Fairy Sprinkles? Oh that's right... we'll just PRINT em! That oughta be economic consequence neutral!

News flash for you hombre... the 'full faith and credit' doesn't count quite for so much these days thanks to free spending Greenspan/Bernanke/Bush/Obama and the last two congresses. We're only a few more fuckups away from having our credit rating downgraded and watching our economy go into a flat spin.

And we become the Third-world-Second-Rate power they want...all for Either One World Gubmint...or 'Fairness' or both by design.

 

[Trajan]

Actually going by Greenbeard's chart..they didn't produce an increase in revenue. They either went down..or stayed flat.

are we looking at the same chart? I can clearly see a spike in the section of 2002-3 to 2007....

the problem is he spent ahead of declining revenues...

further; that sky blue revenue line past 2011 is a pipe dream, they are using averages ahead of any average we ever took in, which is 18.0% if I recall correctly and as displayed by the long sky blue line for revenues in that very chart.

You get more money but the average of revenue by % doesn't move long term below or above 16.5 to 19%...

I wouldn't be surprised if the projected revenue was based on the Bush cuts expiring. It increases right after the 2011 marker.

Possibly, but I am not sure that would matter, we have had massive cuts and we have had mediocre increases, the trend line always stays with- in the same floating average , money flees taxes and better econ. conditions buoys it back up....16-19%.

 

[Trajan]

Almost all of the accumulated debt of the last 30 years can be attributed to increases in defense spending that were not paid for, via taxes, on a pay as you go basis,

and since most conservatives insist that defense spending is constitutional,

your idea, while appealing to the right, does nothing to solve the problem.

The near exponential growth in education costs, social security, medical care and other unconstitutional social spending has nothing to do with this debt does it?

What agencies are already bankrupt to the tune of trillions of dollars in future outlays? Ohhhh that's right. Social Security, Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid. What department is failing our children while increasing it's costs and size at all levels? That's right! The unconstitutional Dept of Education!

You're awfully good at this!

Social Security is funded by the payroll tax. Social Security, as is, is 100% solvent until 2037 and can pay 75% of benefits thereafter. Where's Social Security's money, you ask? It's invested in U.S. bonds,

you keep saying it, doesn't make it true , you have been provided the applicable links in this thread before.

We are using incoming revenue to pay the difference. Now, that 45 b could be used for something else eh?Since we are currently borrowing 40 cents on every dollar right now to operate...well? Solvent my patootey.

Bonds? Do you know what QE 2 is? This ALL counts.



CBO: Social Security to run permanent deficits
Published: Wednesday, Jan. 26, 2011 2:57 p.m. MST

WASHINGTON — New congressional projections show Social Security running permanent annual deficits unless lawmakers act to shore up the massive retirement and disability program.

The Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday that Social Security will pay out $45 billion more in benefits this year than it will collect in payroll taxes, further straining the nation's finances. The deficits will continue until the Social Security trust funds are eventually drained, in about 2037.

CBO: Social Security to run permanent deficits | Deseret News

money the U.S. borrowed to fund military spending that should have been paid for in taxes.

Reagan's military buildup, the first Iraq war, the second Iraq war, the Afghan war, and now the Libyan war were never paid for.

When will you pay for them? Ever?

hey, we borrowed to pay for every war we have ever had.

when will YOU pay?

 

[Trajan]

Those IOU’s you speak of are special issue treasury notes. Just like dollars in your wallet and other treasury bill and note, they are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government, nothing else, no gold, silver, or any assets. If the US fails to honor any debt obligation, it makes the value of all debt obligations questionable, which would result in a collapse of the economy both US and global. In which case the Social Security Trust Fund would be the least of our worries.

Semantic hogwash.

Where are we going to GET those 'dollars' from? China? The money tree? Fairy Sprinkles? Oh that's right... we'll just PRINT em! That oughta be economic consequence neutral!

News flash for you hombre... the 'full faith and credit' doesn't count quite for so much these days thanks to free spending Greenspan/Bernanke/Bush/Obama and the last two congresses. We're only a few more fuckups away from having our credit rating downgraded and watching our economy go into a flat spin.

And we become the Third-world-Second-Rate power they want...all for Either One World Gubmint...or 'Fairness' or both by design.

yes well, you have to remember how serious our leadership is, Reid was on the senate floor almost in tears over the Cowboy Poetry festival losing their funding, what does that tell you? ......you expect any serious discussion or accommodation with him?

Schumer was on a conference cal with other dems and interested parties and didn't know reporters were listening in, the dem game plan; accuse boehner of folding to the tea party who they will continue to vilify, for being extreme, and that was his word he said he was told to use.

so, extreme equals 60 billion cut being reduced to 10 or 20 B?.....and we borrow 3 Billion every single day....every day. period.

 

[Flopper]

Nooo... I deride the use of the SSA's public relations release as proof of their solvency. Congress has been stuffing IOUs in the SS lockbox for decades.

The Trust Fund Myth | U.S. Chamber of Commerce

Can we say Ponzi Scheme? I thought we could.

And some more fun too:

Obama May Have to Borrow From Overseas to Pay Social Security IOUs

Those IOU’s you speak of are special issue treasury notes. Just like dollars in your wallet and other treasury bill and note, they are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government, nothing else, no gold, silver, or any assets. If the US fails to honor any debt obligation, it makes the value of all debt obligations questionable, which would result in a collapse of the economy both US and global. In which case the Social Security Trust Fund would be the least of our worries.

Semantic hogwash.

Where are we going to GET those 'dollars' from? China? The money tree? Fairy Sprinkles? Oh that's right... we'll just PRINT em! That oughta be economic consequence neutral!

News flash for you hombre... the 'full faith and credit' doesn't count quite for so much these days thanks to free spending Greenspan/Bernanke/Bush/Obama and the last two congresses. We're only a few more fuckups away from having our credit rating downgraded and watching our economy go into a flat spin.

If the full faith and credit of United States Government doesn't count for much, why do think most of the major corporations, pension funds, banks, and over a hundred nations hold 15 trillion dollars in US debt and purchase billions every week?

 

[Big Fitz]

Then you will have no problem explaining why the dollar is rapidly devaluing (look at the price of gold and other commodities) and nations like China and Japan among a few dozen others are looking at dumping the dollar as a reserve currency to prevent them from going down with our ship? Also, why do many major businesses refuse to bring profits they earn in foreign nations back to the US?

Honestly, did you crack your head on the bottom when you dove into this conversation?

 

[Flopper]

Then you will have no problem explaining why the dollar is rapidly devaluing (look at the price of gold and other commodities) and nations like China and Japan among a few dozen others are looking at dumping the dollar as a reserve currency to prevent them from going down with our ship? Also, why do many major businesses refuse to bring profits they earn in foreign nations back to the US?

Honestly, did you crack your head on the bottom when you dove into this conversation?

The value of the US dollar fluctuates for a lot of reasons. It is down against most major currencies over last 6 months which is improving US exports. Gold has been rising in price since 2001. The fact is the US economy is strong and getting stronger.

 

[Flopper]

Then you will have no problem explaining why the dollar is rapidly devaluing (look at the price of gold and other commodities) and nations like China and Japan among a few dozen others are looking at dumping the dollar as a reserve currency to prevent them from going down with our ship? Also, why do many major businesses refuse to bring profits they earn in foreign nations back to the US?

Honestly, did you crack your head on the bottom when you dove into this conversation?

The US dollar is not a major economic indicator of the future growth of the US economy as there is little correlation between movements in the dollar and economic growth. There are both positive and negative aspects of changes in the value of the dollar. A falling dollar benefits American businesses exporting overseas since it makes American goods cheaper as well making American products cheaper in the US compared to foreign goods. However, on the negative side, the higher price of foreign goods is inflationary.

In 2008 and 2009 during the recession we saw run ups in the dollar as foreign businesses saw the US dollar as a safe haven. During the recession, the inflation rate in the US was near zero. As we come out of the recession, inflation will increase as it always does. In 2010, the dollar began a sharp fall in response to expected inflation.

As far as China is concerned, they are selling dollars because they have no real choice. Being their biggest customer, they are accumulating a huge number of US dollars with the growth in US retail sales. In the past they held those dollars in order to keep the value of the dollar up and cost of Chinese goods in the US low, but that’s changing. The US has been pressuring the Chinese to stop playing games in the currency market and apparently that is what they are doing.

If a 20% decline of the US dollar against major foreign currencies signaled the collapse of the government and our economy this country would have never seen the 21-century.

 

[Big Fitz]

Then you will have no problem explaining why the dollar is rapidly devaluing (look at the price of gold and other commodities) and nations like China and Japan among a few dozen others are looking at dumping the dollar as a reserve currency to prevent them from going down with our ship? Also, why do many major businesses refuse to bring profits they earn in foreign nations back to the US?

Honestly, did you crack your head on the bottom when you dove into this conversation?

The value of the US dollar fluctuates for a lot of reasons. It is down against most major currencies over last 6 months which is improving US exports. Gold has been rising in price since 2001. The fact is the US economy is strong and getting stronger.

You're kidding right? The fact that the last time we printed even a fraction of this amount of money without growth back in the 1970's we experienced stagflation. We're now approaching 10 time that amount and because it hasn't had any velocity into the system (because banks are WISELY sitting on it) the inflation hasn't hit as hard as it should... yet. The fed is praying they can find a way to reabsorb the overprinting before you may as well put "The United States of Weimar" on every bill.

To say the economy is strong is delusional to be kind.

 

[Big Fitz]

The US dollar is not a major economic indicator of the future growth of the US economy as there is little correlation between movements in the dollar and economic growth. There are both positive and negative aspects of changes in the value of the dollar. A falling dollar benefits American businesses exporting overseas since it makes American goods cheaper as well making American products cheaper in the US compared to foreign goods. However, on the negative side, the higher price of foreign goods is inflationary.

This is true. But since we've eviscerated our domestic manufacturing, this helps us how really? Secondly, the devalued dollar that means our oil is more expensive. That makes all American products that rely on oil (which is all of them) more expensive. Whoopsidaisy.

In 2008 and 2009 during the recession we saw run ups in the dollar as foreign businesses saw the US dollar as a safe haven. During the recession, the inflation rate in the US was near zero. As we come out of the recession, inflation will increase as it always does. In 2010, the dollar began a sharp fall in response to expected inflation.

Ah... the Pre Greece and Iceland meltdowns. Yes. Comparatively the dollar WAS a great safe haven. Right now? Australia is one of the best currently, but well... the whole world sucks. The question is who sucks worst.

And that expected inflation may go over 20% a year. If some of the numbers I heard come true, we could be looking at 20 dollars for a loaf of bread inside of 2 years. I think that's probably exaggerated, but... remember the 70's. Supermarkets were significantly raising prices 3 times a week.

As far as China is concerned, they are selling dollars because they have no real choice. Being their biggest customer, they are accumulating a huge number of US dollars with the growth in US retail sales. In the past they held those dollars in order to keep the value of the dollar up and cost of Chinese goods in the US low, but that’s changing. The US has been pressuring the Chinese to stop playing games in the currency market and apparently that is what they are doing.

And they're scared to death at the policies of this administration. They've artificially pegged the Yuan under the dollar to keep a trade advantage. Now demand has tanked, they have a devaluing dollar and there are very few markets that can keep up with what the US was which endangers their needed growth to keep the masses happy. The admin is playing a very very dangerous game of brinkmanship with the Chinese and the chances to win are slim, or at least result in a Pyrrhic victory at best.

If a 20% decline of the US dollar against major foreign currencies signaled the collapse of the government and our economy this country would have never seen the 21-century.

I did not say that it would, I do believe it is possible, with the forces aligned to 'improve' this nation into a socialist paradise with the New Deal part 2.

 

[Flopper]

The US dollar is not a major economic indicator of the future growth of the US economy as there is little correlation between movements in the dollar and economic growth. There are both positive and negative aspects of changes in the value of the dollar. A falling dollar benefits American businesses exporting overseas since it makes American goods cheaper as well making American products cheaper in the US compared to foreign goods. However, on the negative side, the higher price of foreign goods is inflationary.

This is true. But since we've eviscerated our domestic manufacturing, this helps us how really? Secondly, the devalued dollar that means our oil is more expensive. That makes all American products that rely on oil (which is all of them) more expensive. Whoopsidaisy.

In 2008 and 2009 during the recession we saw run ups in the dollar as foreign businesses saw the US dollar as a safe haven. During the recession, the inflation rate in the US was near zero. As we come out of the recession, inflation will increase as it always does. In 2010, the dollar began a sharp fall in response to expected inflation.

Ah... the Pre Greece and Iceland meltdowns. Yes. Comparatively the dollar WAS a great safe haven. Right now? Australia is one of the best currently, but well... the whole world sucks. The question is who sucks worst.

And that expected inflation may go over 20% a year. If some of the numbers I heard come true, we could be looking at 20 dollars for a loaf of bread inside of 2 years. I think that's probably exaggerated, but... remember the 70's. Supermarkets were significantly raising prices 3 times a week.

As far as China is concerned, they are selling dollars because they have no real choice. Being their biggest customer, they are accumulating a huge number of US dollars with the growth in US retail sales. In the past they held those dollars in order to keep the value of the dollar up and cost of Chinese goods in the US low, but that’s changing. The US has been pressuring the Chinese to stop playing games in the currency market and apparently that is what they are doing.

And they're scared to death at the policies of this administration. They've artificially pegged the Yuan under the dollar to keep a trade advantage. Now demand has tanked, they have a devaluing dollar and there are very few markets that can keep up with what the US was which endangers their needed growth to keep the masses happy. The admin is playing a very very dangerous game of brinkmanship with the Chinese and the chances to win are slim, or at least result in a Pyrrhic victory at best.

If a 20% decline of the US dollar against major foreign currencies signaled the collapse of the government and our economy this country would have never seen the 21-century.

I did not say that it would, I do believe it is possible, with the forces aligned to 'improve' this nation into a socialist paradise with the New Deal part 2.

American manufacturing is certainly not dead. In 2010, the US exported 1.82 trillion dollars in goods. You say demand has tanked in the US. The index of retail sales set an all time high in Jan 2011.

Expected inflation of 20%; expected by who? Certainly not a consensus of leading economists.

 

[Truthseeker420]

I heard an Obama mouth piece on TV last night say "the US is cash strapped"

Well now, that is not actually the truth. Saying it that way makes it sound like were just not taking in enough money.

The truth is were taking in more money every year than ever before. By a long shot. The Truth is the BUSH tax cuts caused an increase in revenues to record highs.

It is not that were not taking in enough money, WERE FUCKING SPENDING TO MUCH!!!

Bush tax cuts are 55% of our national debt.

Bush submitted a budget of 3.1 trillion in FY 2009 and Obama submitted a budget of 3.6 trillion in 2010. And Bush didn't include war payments in his budget. Corporate welfare and wars are expensive.
Fox News falsely claimed Obama budget "4x bigger than Bush's costliest plan" | Media Matters for America

 

[Big Fitz]

Expected inflation of 20%; expected by who? Certainly not a consensus of leading economists.

Wouuuulllldd these be the same 'leading' economists who are surprised time after time at housing prices plummeting and the failure of the stimulus to stimulate?

Pardon me for treating their expectations with a smidge of skepticism.