Stem cell research

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by Sandy73
Kerry is for ending lives not saving them ! :teeth:

Sorry I had to say it !!

and he has just asked Bush to reverse his stand on EMBRYONIC stem cells

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
How can we obtain Eternal Life if we are not Eternal?

Christianity teaches that we are given eternal life as a gift by God when we put our faith in His Son, Jesus Christ. That does not mean that have have existed eternally in the past; it means that we will exist eternally into the future.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Mustafa
So YOU SEE that G-d was a trinity of three godheads that created man? Did G-d say let us, Jesus, Mary and the Holy Ghost, or us three godheads to make man? No..... WHY DID G-D FORGET TO MENTION THEM BY NAME?

First, the Trinity is composed of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Mary is not a part of it.

Second, who else could God have been talking to? Angels have no creative power, only God does. And we learn in the New Testament that through Jesus, God created all things: "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:16-17)

We also see that God has no need to consult angels, humans, or anyone else to decide what to create or what not to create: "Who has understood the mind of the LORD,
or instructed him as his counselor?
Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge
or showed him the path of understanding? " (Isaiah 40:13-14)

But nowhere does it say that God created all of mankind; it just says "man." That would be like saying that God created very animal and plant that would ever live during the six days of creation, and they are all just waiting in heaven to be born, like one giant nursery/zoo combination. Sorry, but you are wrong.

Did the verse say that G-d created a man on the sixth day? Did G-d say the He created the the man Adam on that day? If you will look past your personal beliefs you will see that the word "man" is also a plural word used many time through out the bible. If you have a FISH in your fishbowl, you may ask how man FISH are in the sea?

How is it that you question whether or not G-d created every animal and plant that would ever be during His second day of creation of the universe? Do you have some special knowledge of G-d's abilities?

My statement was in response to the original question of whether God created all humans or whether all human souls existed eternally. My belief is that He created us.

 

[dilloduck]

I knew someone was gonna jump on Reagans coat tails and grab the stem call issue. Guess its no biggie cause the righties are basically pro life and the lefties pro choice so it would naturally be the left who grabbed it. Bet the Pope is pissed at him again !

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by gop_jeff

First, the Trinity is composed of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Mary is not a part of it.

Apparently you don't know Mary like the Pope. The Catholic Church prays to Mary as even greater than Jesus Christ. You know how mothers of gods can be....

Second, who else could God have been talking to? Angels
have no creative power, only God does.

Who told YOU that G-d's angels have no creative power? Remember the Angel of Death and his creation of your ultimate end. You must stop thinking literally.

Apparently even human beings have a part in the creative powers as G-d has made man a partner in his continuous creation in this universe. G-d has given you the freewill to do what He wants you to do and create goodness and mercy or you can follow your own path of evil and assist in the termination of creation. G-d has given man (mankind) the ability to think, invent and create so that humankind is benefited by this partnership in creation.

And we learn in the New Testament that through Jesus, God created all things: "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:16-17)

Jesus name is not mentioned even once in G-d's original bible. Jesus name is mentioned in the newest bible of the Latter Day Saints. G-d is One and His name is One but not three gods.

Deuteronomy 5:7-8

7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Jesus fits these Bible verses perfectly. He was unknown until Pau of Tarsus made him a god sixty years after he was crucified by the Romans.

We also see that God has no need to consult angels, humans, or anyone else to decide what to create or what not to create: "Who has understood the mind of the LORD,
or instructed him as his counselor? Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him, and who taught him the right way? ho was it that taught him knowledge or showed him the path of understanding? " (Isaiah 40:13-14)

It seems that you have the ability to know what G-d means and knows. Your a joke.....

My statement was in response to the original question of whether God created all humans or whether all human souls existed eternally. My belief is that He created us.

Your entitled to your belief and the Creator is entiled to His. I think I will take His word for it in His own Bible.

 

[proud_savagette]

Apparently you don't know Mary like the Pope. The Catholic Church prays to Mary as even greater than Jesus Christ. You know how mothers of gods can be....

Well, I wouldn't say go that far. No, we don't pray to Mary as even greater than Jesus Christ, really. We're simply stating that she was His mother. Therefore, when one prays to her, it's asking for her to bring the prayer to Christ.

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by proud_savagette

Well, I wouldn't say go that far. No, we don't pray to Mary as even greater than Jesus Christ, really. We're simply stating that she was His mother. Therefore, when one prays to her, it's asking for her to bring the prayer to Christ.

There are some Roman Catholic observers that continue to believe that Mary has still not officially been proclaimed "Co-Redemptrix with Christ." In fact, the premier issue of the Roman Catholic publication Catholic Heritage displayed a front page with the title: "Mary, Mother of the Church." In a Question and Answer column the question is asked, "At the foot of the cross, Mary shared in the mystery of the passion. True or False? Answer: True. Mary united her sorrows to those of her Son. The sorrowful and immaculate heart of Mary bled with her Son for all of mankind. For this reason, she was invoked under the title of Co-Redemptrix or co-god with Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Ok.....shifting gears to lower level thinking.


Just because something is text does not mean it is fact or not fact.

The information is to be proven before becoming fact.

The Bible is fact. Proven. Duh.

The Bible is proven fact. What a load. We have no scientific evidence to "prove" that Jesus Christ ever existed.

That's why they call it faith.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by Mustafa
Are you the Creator G-d of the universe?

Ah - no he's not. That would be NewGuy. Just ask him.

 

[dilloduck]

let me see if I have this straight now

Embryonic stem cell research is bad because some people believe that is it murdering the unborn.

Is it not also a sin to not use what gifts we were given to do research that is showing great promise in helping people with serious health problems?

I have not heard any researchers stating that more abortions are required for thier research to go on.

On the contrary, they say that over 40,000 frozen embryos that are already scheduled for destruction exists.

are we to save these frozen embryos by implanting every one of them?

What do you think about non embryonic stem cell research--is that murder too?

 

[Merlin1047]

Umbilical stem cells are showing definite promise in this area. Anyone not blinded by rabid ideology should find no objections with harvesting stem cells from the umbilical cord.

http://www.stemcelltherapies.org/stemumtherapies.htm

The link above shows the progress of umbilical stem cell research on animal experiments.

IMO, everyone having a baby today should have the umbilical blood saved and stored. Assuming that stem cell research does bear fruit, having stem cells from with one's own DNA would eliminate rejection problems common with many transplant procedures.

 

[Mustafa]

Actually there is some distinction between umbilical blood stem cells and embryonic stem cells.

Once the embryonic stem cell has begun the process of differentiating the primary forming zygote cells into various body cells, i.e., bone, eye, skin, brain, thyroid, finger nail, etc, the stem cell itself appears to alter and becomes adapted to forming that particular body cell type over and over again throughout the life of the individual or organism.

The undifferentiated stem cell from the earliest weeks of formation are suitable to become any type of tissue into which they come into contact.

The United States and its major religion seem to find a problem with this embryonic stem cell for saving life and repairing damage based on their own personal religious beliefs.

Fortunately there are many places in the world without this anti-scitientific thinking or aberrant religious inhibition.

England is only one country that is now creating embryonic stem cell banks that can be used for research around the scientific world community.

Luckily stem cell research continues unabated around the world with the exception of those countries trapped in their history and which dwells on murder, death and oppression with their place in a time long past still in ignorance.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/05/19/uk.stemcell.bank.reut/

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
The Bible is proven fact. What a load. We have no scientific evidence to "prove" that Jesus Christ ever existed.

That's why they call it faith.

Glad to see someone is making sense.

Look, the Bible is true, but to say its proven fact with alot of scientific processes is just BS. There is no way for science to prove that Jesus came back from the dead. And until that one fact is proved, you cant say that the Bible is a proven fact because thats the central message of the Bible!

However, there is deffinately plenty of evidence to support the Bible. The proof will come by the Spirit, which will be poured out upon those who experiment on the Word and live His Doctrine.

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by Avatar4321

Glad to see someone is making sense.

Look, the Bible is true, but to say its proven fact with alot of scientific processes is just BS. There is no way for science to prove that Jesus came back from the dead. And until that one fact is proved, you cant say that the Bible is a proven fact because thats the central message of the Christian Bible!

However, there is deffinately plenty of evidence to support the Bible. The proof will come by the Spirit, which will be poured out upon those who experiment on the Word and live His Doctrine.

No proof comes with archeological evidence and reputable historians of the day whose text can be found to exist to this very day. Truth by the Spirit is much like the American Indian spirits who also proved themselves to the believers. These truths are only in the mind of the adherent and not to be found in those who have never seen an evil spirit or a good spirit.

 

[leojoeyjoe]

I'm for it....my grandfather has alzheimer's...that's why...nothing more

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by leojoeyjoe
I'm for it....my grandfather has alzheimer's...that's why...nothing more

Best reason there is ! Hope he is doing as well as he can be!

 

[leojoeyjoe]

Only the ignorant and selfish can support it.

Only the monumentally ignorant and selfish would say something like this in an otherwise civil debate about a possible cure for alzheimers.

 

[Meridian Clear]

So... 12 pages of arguing about how you each decide to interpret a book that is subjective.

Thank you dilloduck for the page 12 attempt to bring this back to the subject at hand.



* People, embryos, cells - <b>don't have to die</b> in order for us to do stemcell research. If you have a question on this please refer to the many already listed stem cell sites.

If stem cell research will help us advance our healing technology, other than personal Religious feelings, what could be wrong with that?

and those against it, are you against ALL technological advances?