State of Israel is a Terrorist Jewish State

[mikeangel]

We could whip the muslims by having a revival in Israel and turning to God instead of worrying about if you could push a button on the sabbath.

And the Jews and the Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say: Why does He then chastise you for your sins? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created. He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases. And Allah’s is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming. - 5:18​

Well, lets start with this. We both are God fearing people. We both for one reason or another believe that our own religon is the true one. Now lets take a basic overall look. As I know it, all or most of the prophets in our bible are recognised by Mohammed.Also in your quran,in the Cow-v101 "a party of those who were given the book of allah threw them behind their backs as if they were nothing" That means that even Mohammed acceted the bible and the prophets were from God. #1. I am one who hasn't thrown God's book behind my back, it is the guide to my life. #2. Those same prophets prophesied that God loved Zion,despite their sins, and would forgive them and save them. Mohammed also regarded Enoch as a prophet, and in the book of Enoch CV. v-2"For I and my son will be united with them for ever." Who determined what is the right word? The koran recognises Jesus(asa) and even states that he did preform miricles and his second coming would happen, so how can the koran dispute and condemn christians and jews and also testify to the validity of our word? How can anyone believe in an all merciful God and then think that murdering some innocent people is doing Gods will? The jews are also sinful and wrong but Asa (Jesus) taught that Gods sons would love thier enemys, and neither one of you accept that. I know that the do-do is going to hit the fan any time now, even after I posted yesterday Iran sucessfully tested a long range missle. I can't wait until God proves who he is and what he stands for, and it coming, but in the same book Mohhamed said was "the book of allah" it says about Ishmael Genesis 16 v12, "He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone,and everyones hand against him" Then in the same "book of Allah" Numbers 24 v-24 "Alas,who shall survive of Ishmael, to deliver him from the hands of the Kittim? When they have conquered Asshur and conquered Eber, He too shall perish forever" Now I know you don't agree with this, but, my human brother, were about to find out. Godbless.

 

[mikeangel]

O.K. Its been all day. Jew or muslim, would someone explain this?

 

[jillian]

explain what?

 

[Kalam]

Well, lets start with this. We both are God fearing people. We both for one reason or another believe that our own religon is the true one. Now lets take a basic overall look. As I know it, all or most of the prophets in our bible are recognised by Mohammed.Also in your quran,in the Cow-v101 "a party of those who were given the book of allah threw them behind their backs as if they were nothing" That means that even Mohammed acceted the bible and the prophets were from God.

The Torah, Psalms, and Gospels were all divinely inspired but were ultimately corrupted by men according to Islamic teachings.

But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and hardened their hearts. They alter the words from their places and neglect a portion of that whereof they were reminded. And thou wilt always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them -- so pardon them and forgive. Surely Allah loves those who do good. - 5:13​

The Qur'an, which exists today as it did when it was revealed to Muhammad (SAWS), corrects the mistakes made by the transmitters of previous scriptures.

#1. I am one who hasn't thrown God's book behind my back, it is the guide to my life. #2. Those same prophets prophesied that God loved Zion,despite their sins, and would forgive them and save them.

Indeed, but God (SWT) does not favor one race of people above another as the Bible would have us believe. No special status is to be afforded to the Israelites or any other ethnic group -- the pronouncement in Deuteronomy 7:6 is regarded as false.

Mohammed also regarded Enoch as a prophet, and in the book of Enoch CV. v-2"For I and my son will be united with them for ever." Who determined what is the right word?

Little is said of Enoch in the Qur'an, but you're right, he is described as a prophet and a righteous man therein. However, that doesn't imply that the Biblical book attributed to him is accurate. Allah (SWT) determined what was the right word, and we believe that to be the Qur'an, which unequivocally states that Allah (SWT) has no sons ("He begets not, nor was He begotten...") and that Jesus (AS) was, like Muhammad (SAWS), a Messenger and nothing more.

The koran recognises Jesus(asa) and even states that he did preform miricles and his second coming would happen, so how can the koran dispute and condemn christians and jews and also testify to the validity of our word?

Christians and Jews are chastised for their failure to preserve and uphold God's word, though the Qur'an, as you know, states that a party of them are steadfast in their belief and have not fallen prey to the enticements of idolatry. As stated, the Qur'an affirms that your scriptures were divinely inspired but disputes their accuracy. Regardless of how a Muslim feels about them, he or she is supposed to treat Christians, Jews, and all other people equitably according to 5:8.

How can anyone believe in an all merciful God and then think that murdering some innocent people is doing Gods will?

Islam is diametrically opposed to any ideology which encourages the murder of innocents, as "no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another" according to 17:15. Islam allows for war to be made with those who fight against Muslims and with those who oppress Muslims or assist in their oppression.

The jews are also sinful and wrong but Asa (Jesus) taught that Gods sons would love thier enemys, and neither one of you accept that.

Hating one's enemies is not essential; we hate the oppression and tumult that they cause and our religion allows us to put a stop to it by any means necessary.

I know that the do-do is going to hit the fan any time now, even after I posted yesterday Iran sucessfully tested a long range missle. I can't wait until God proves who he is and what he stands for, and it coming, but in the same book Mohhamed said was "the book of allah" it says about Ishmael Genesis 16 v12, "He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone,and everyones hand against him" Then in the same "book of Allah" Numbers 24 v-24 "Alas,who shall survive of Ishmael, to deliver him from the hands of the Kittim? When they have conquered Asshur and conquered Eber, He too shall perish forever" Now I know you don't agree with this, but, my human brother, were about to find out. Godbless.

One of many examples of Biblical prevarication.

Wa salam.

 

[mikeangel]

The heart of the matter then, is what word do you believe. No doubt where you live and how you are raised have much to do with that. As a very prayerful person I have read both the old and new testament and alot of the koran, because something within me tells me that it all comes down to how the world resolves the seemingly huge difference in beliefs,and it will determine if we will either destroy each other or invite God(Allah) to rule and decide whats the truth. You and I or the pope or the clerics of islam or the rabbis cannot say what is absolutely the truth. We are all sinful and fall short. We should first agknowlage as a creature of the universe with a spirit that God created us and we are subject to him. We also should read the scriptures and listen to our hearts(not necessarily what someone else is telling you). What my heart tells me is my scripture came from God and has not been changed. Mohammed recieved the koran in a cave, and as I understand it he was supposedly illiterate(like me), as were the followers that he recited it to. They as I understand recited it over and over and it wasn't even written down for a long time. Human nature changes things that are repeated and not written. The torah was dictated to Moses from God, and as stubborn and hard headed as most jews are, one thing in their favor is they meticuliously preserve Gods law in written form, even if most of them do not keep it.(Me either, I fall short all the time and depend heavily on Gods mercy). Also as far as why we are chastised it is because God loves us. It is written that God chastises those he loves. That makes perfect sense to me. If a child is never diciplined or chastised they grow up unruly. Some children benefit, some resent it and harm themselves for disobedience. God must really love me. Got the scars to prove it. You know, one thing that we both agree on is that God is all powerful, and all merciful. He is coming and will set things right.Why don't you in the mean time read my bible and tell me which parts were changed, since yall are enlightened. Peace be with you. Godbless. P. S. all over our bible their are places where God announces through a prophet that something is about to happen, and then it comes to pass, proving both the power of God and the prophets authority. Where has that happened in Islam ,when was it spoken,and when was if fulfilled and verified?

 

[mikeangel]

By the way Kalam, I love you.

 

[mikeangel]

Indeed, but God (SWT) does not favor one race of people above another as the Bible would have us believe. No special status is to be afforded to the Israelites or any other ethnic group -- the pronouncement in Deuteronomy 7:6 is regarded as false. David, also known as a prophet in Islam, Was a jewish sheperd boy who rose to fame by defeating a Philistine, then continuing to become a jewish king. Seems to me he was favored and jewish. Zechariah, also regarded as a prophet, gave many oracles,mainly about rebuilding the temple, which was and is most definately jewish. Isa(Jesus), was regarded in Islam as a Prophet, messenger, messiah and Shari'a, was a jew. Not only a jew but a rabbi. Also if Islamic countries condem innocent loss from radicals why aren't they helping to get rid of them? More peace and love to you.Godbless.

 

[Kalam]

The heart of the matter then, is what word do you believe. No doubt where you live and how you are raised have much to do with that.

I was raised in the West in a household that was mostly non-observant.

As a very prayerful person I have read both the old and new testament and alot of the koran, because something within me tells me that it all comes down to how the world resolves the seemingly huge difference in beliefs,and it will determine if we will either destroy each other or invite God(Allah) to rule and decide whats the truth.

I've read the Bible a few times, but have been focusing more on the texts of my own religion. I would like to read Aquinas' Summa Theologica if I ever find the time.

You and I or the pope or the clerics of islam or the rabbis cannot say what is absolutely the truth. We are all sinful and fall short. We should first agknowlage as a creature of the universe with a spirit that God created us and we are subject to him. We also should read the scriptures and listen to our hearts(not necessarily what someone else is telling you). What my heart tells me is my scripture came from God and has not been changed.

That does not seem likely when it's taken into account that most of the Gospels were not recorded as they appear today until about a half-century after the events described supposedly took place. Add to that the numerous discrepancies between the canonical gospels and those not included in the Bible, and I have a difficult time believing that an unchanged Bible is even remotely plausible.

Mohammed recieved the koran in a cave, and as I understand it he was supposedly illiterate(like me), as were the followers that he recited it to. They as I understand recited it over and over and it wasn't even written down for a long time.

Muhammad (SAWS) himself was illiterate, but many of his followers were not. The revelation was received and recited publicly over a period of over twenty-two years. When the Messenger delivered a part of his recitation, his followers would immediately memorize it and some among them would record it. Muhammad oversaw the beginnings of the compilation of the Qur'an before his death in 632, and this compilation was completed and standardized during the reign of his companion and son-in-law, Uthman.

Human nature changes things that are repeated and not written. The torah was dictated to Moses from God, and as stubborn and hard headed as most jews are, one thing in their favor is they meticuliously preserve Gods law in written form

Modern scholarship dates the completion of the present version of the Torah to the 6th-4th centuries BC; Moses (AS) is believed to have been born in circa 1390 BC. It's also important to note the significance of the "Oral Torah". Jewish tradition holds that all of the laws described to Moses on Sinai were not meticulously preserved in written form.

The Oral Tradition
Rabbi Herschel Shachter - The Torah She’Baal Peh
Proofs For The Oral Law

Also as far as why we are chastised it is because God loves us. It is written that God chastises those he loves. That makes perfect sense to me. If a child is never diciplined or chastised they grow up unruly. Some children benefit, some resent it and harm themselves for disobedience. God must really love me. Got the scars to prove it. You know, one thing that we both agree on is that God is all powerful, and all merciful. He is coming and will set things right.Why don't you in the mean time read my bible and tell me which parts were changed, since yall are enlightened.

I've read the King James Version and the New International Version. The apparent additions and alterations are innumerable, so I will mention only a few. Most importantly, Jesus (AS) was not Allah (SWT) or his "son" -- the concept of a corporeal, procreating God is illogical and associating Him with any mortal is idolatrous. The attribution of genocidal acts to Moses, of course, involved the creation of false accounts describing conduct inappropriate for a Messenger of Allah. The assertion that Jews are a "chosen race" is patently false. The story of Lot (AS) sleeping with his daughters is also false.

Peace be with you. Godbless. P. S. all over our bible their are places where God announces through a prophet that something is about to happen, and then it comes to pass, proving both the power of God and the prophets authority. Where has that happened in Islam ,when was it spoken,and when was if fulfilled and verified?

And whoever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe for friend -- surely the party of Allah, they shall triumph. - 5:56​

Against all odds:

 

[mikeangel]

First of all I want to genuinely thank you for corresponding with me in this forum. I never dreamed that I could discuss these matters with a muslim and not be martyred, though that would be a great honor for me. You did not address the fact of God chosing jewish people for prophets, or the messiah being jewish. Your map is quite impressive, but one thing that strikes me beyond how much influance islam has gained is this: out of that whole map, if you highlight only Israel, It is very, very tiny compared to the middle east and Islam domination, yet it is there, and to me that is prophetic fulfilment. In Daniel, another prophet, prophesied about Islam="The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, differant than all the others; It shall devour the whole earth, beat it down, and crush it. The ten horns shall be ten kings rising out of that kingdom;another shall rise up after after them,Differant from those before him, who shall lay low three kings.(Osama-Clinton couldn't get him, Bush 2 couldn't get him, Obama bows to Islam) He shall speak against the most High and oppress the holy ones of the most high,thinking to change the feast days and the law.(you also seem to fulfill that by saying our bible is falsified, and Osama thinks what you think and then some) They shall be handed over to him for a year,two years and a half year(three and a half is half of the jewish perfect number,7, an indefinate,evil period) But when the court is convened, and his power is taken away by final and absolute distruction, Then the kingship and dominion and majesty of all the kingdoms under the heavans shall be given to the holy people of the Most High". Also Daniel is another example of a Jew being upheld by God.I know know that we are chasing the wind, we will never agree on this. But I want to say that loyalty to goodness and peace,will never be in vain. Honestly, May God bless you and guide you and keep you.P.S. I have a fantasy, I wish someday when I have the means, I could come to the Middle East. I would want a faithful muslim to do something with me. Lets go out to a desolate place. After we both fast and pray, Let me build an altar to God Most High and celebrate His sons ressurection by offering bread and wine on it. The muslim would do whatever they want to invoke God, And lets see what happens. I would pray that it would be God's will to show us the truth beyond all doubt.Thats the only way to peace, If not me than someone else, and get this mess behind us.If that is not possible or not his will then I pray that I die before Islam finishes"beating the whole world down and crushing it" Gods will be done.

 

[mikeangel]

Exodus 34-v27 "Then the Lord said to Moses,"Write down these words, for in accordance with them I have made a covenant with you and Israel". So Moses stayed there forty days and forty nights, without eating any food or drinking any water,and he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant,the ten commandments"

 

[mikeangel]

Also if Islamic countries condem innocent loss from radicals why aren't they helping to get rid of them?

You didn't address this either, please comment.

 

[Kalam]

By the way Kalam, I love you.

Don't get all I Corinthians 13 on me.

David, also known as a prophet in Islam, Was a jewish sheperd boy who rose to fame by defeating a Philistine, then continuing to become a jewish king. Seems to me he was favored and jewish. Zechariah, also regarded as a prophet, gave many oracles,mainly about rebuilding the temple, which was and is most definately jewish.

The prophet Zechariah (AS) is not the same as the Hebrew prophet Zecheriah; the true prophet was the priest in the New Testament who served as the guardian of Mary (AS).

Isa(Jesus), was regarded in Islam as a Prophet, messenger, messiah and Shari'a, was a jew. Not only a jew but a rabbi. Also if Islamic countries condem innocent loss from radicals why aren't they helping to get rid of them? More peace and love to you.Godbless.

Jesus (AS) was a Messenger who attempted to correct the mistaken beliefs of his Jewish contemporaries, much like Muhammad (SAWS) corrected the mistaken beliefs of Jews and Christians in his own time. My perception is that those of our "radicals" who participate in legitimate jihad against the militaries and governments of countries like Israel and Russia outnumber those who try to kill innocent civilians.

And upon you be peace, and blessings of Allah (SWT).

 

[mikeangel]

By the way Kalam, I love you.
Don't get all I Corinthians 13 on me. .

I still love you.1 Corinthians 13-"Love never fails.Prophecies will cease, tounges will be silent, knowledge will pass away.Our knowledge is imperfect and our phrophesying is imperfect.When the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away........v13 There are in the end three things that last: faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love." Tell me, on your honor as a child of God, Do you love me? Moreover, do you hate me? In the things that I have stated, would you feel bad if a muslim somehow found out who I am and killed me?

 

[mikeangel]

By the way Kalam, I love you.

Don't get all I Corinthians 13 on me.

David, also known as a prophet in Islam, Was a jewish sheperd boy who rose to fame by defeating a Philistine, then continuing to become a jewish king. Seems to me he was favored and jewish. Zechariah, also regarded as a prophet, gave many oracles,mainly about rebuilding the temple, which was and is most definately jewish.

The prophet Zechariah (AS) is not the same as the Hebrew prophet Zecheriah; the true prophet was the priest in the New Testament who served as the guardian of Mary (AS).

Isa(Jesus), was regarded in Islam as a Prophet, messenger, messiah and Shari'a, was a jew. Not only a jew but a rabbi. Also if Islamic countries condem innocent loss from radicals why aren't they helping to get rid of them? More peace and love to you.Godbless.

Jesus (AS) was a Messenger who attempted to correct the mistaken beliefs of his Jewish contemporaries, much like Muhammad (SAWS) corrected the mistaken beliefs of Jews and Christians in his own time. My perception is that those of our "radicals" who participate in legitimate jihad against the militaries and governments of countries like Israel and Russia outnumber those who try to kill innocent civilians.

And upon you be peace, and blessings of Allah (SWT).

You are right, I didn't know which Zechariah, but nevertheless, a jewish priest.Also I didn't find where he was Marys guardian so much as he was John the Baptist father(Luke 1). The fact remains that Jesus was a jewish rabbi that the koran says performed miracles.David was a jewish king. I still do not understand how Islam could view and respect them as prophets and reject Israel, they were both. How could God bestow such an honor on someone he didn't have friendship with? Also no matter what the proportion of "radical" jihadist to legitimate jihadist why doesn't Islam search for them and stop them? In your opinion was the 9-11 terrorist legitimate? What about the Taliban and /or Ammanijad in Iran?Godbless.

 

[P F Tinmore]

DavidS, tell the Palestinians to stop firing rockets, stop the martyr nonsense, and generally act like grown adults. If they do, peace will come to the region. If they don't, the Palestinians will continue to show they hate their own children, and that is the mark of an unnatural people.

Will peace come if they stop firing missile? Not sure! But since attacks stopped coming from the WB no operations have been launched there. If the Palestinians put down their guns, then so will Israel. Both parts have to start being realistic on the outcome of this conflict!

That is simply not true. Hardly a day goes by without attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank.

 

[CMike]

Another translation. The arab neighbors want to destroy Israel and murder all the jews in it, and Israel says no.

 

[CMike]

G-D chose the jews to give the Torah too. In fact, one of the learnings is that G-D offered the Torah to all other nations, and they all refused but the jews. The jewish task is to be a light and an example to other nations.

According to the Torah, non jews need to keep seven laws to get into heaven.

They are:

The Living Law - Parshas Noach, 5769 - Torah.org

(1) Not to worship idols (2) Not to curse G-d (3) Not to murder (4) Not to commit adultery or incest (5) Not to steal (and civil laws) (6) To establish courts of justice and (7) Not to eat flesh from a living animal (Sanhedrin 56b; Rambam, Hilchos Melachim 9:1).

Jesus is completely contrary to judaism. According to the Torah, G-D made it completely clear that there is only him, and the only worship should be directed toward him, and no one else.

 

[CMike]

DavidS, tell the Palestinians to stop firing rockets, stop the martyr nonsense, and generally act like grown adults. If they do, peace will come to the region. If they don't, the Palestinians will continue to show they hate their own children, and that is the mark of an unnatural people.

Will peace come if they stop firing missile? Not sure! But since attacks stopped coming from the WB no operations have been launched there. If the Palestinians put down their guns, then so will Israel. Both parts have to start being realistic on the outcome of this conflict!

That is simply not true. Hardly a day goes by without attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank.

Really? What happened yesterday?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Will peace come if they stop firing missile? Not sure! But since attacks stopped coming from the WB no operations have been launched there. If the Palestinians put down their guns, then so will Israel. Both parts have to start being realistic on the outcome of this conflict!

That is simply not true. Hardly a day goes by without attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank.

Really? What happened yesterday?

There is no report released yet for this week. This is a partial from last week. This is a typical week. The attacks by US militias are not included is this report.

Confidential documents unveil PA-Israeli cooperation in kidnapping citizens

GAZA, (PIC)-- Confidential documents issued by the interior ministry of the Palestinian Authority (PA) in Gaza revealed that Mahmoud Abbas’s militias carried out political arrests in the West Bank against Palestinian citizens in cooperation with the Israeli occupation forces (IOF).

The documents were obtained by computer hackers who managed to get into the system of one of the PA security apparatuses in the West Bank.

The first document, issued on 26/11/2009, points out that a joint patrol of IOF and Abbas’s militias carried out a raid on a West Bank village in order to kidnap a number of citizens wanted by Israel.

In a leaked letter, Sayyed said that the stories of torture inside Abbas’s jails are hideous and painful, where many detainees affiliated with Hamas were killed and some others sustained permanent disability or a psychological illness.

He added that the Guardian’s report on the involvement of the CIA in torturing Hamas cadres in Abbas’s jails should prompt human rights organizations to take action towards these violations.

http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/...188R4G07DPfa0ykJt05wnofBKf/WpzWwxR1qRn0xd2wE=

PCHR Weekly Report

 

[P F Tinmore]

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