Solving "Education"

[PoliticalChic]

My new free-market system to save education:

The Teacher's-Become-Capitalists Plan...

....also known as The Politics-Out-Of-Education Plan


If disruptive students are the greatest problem for teachers, here's my plan, one which give society the school system it claims to desire, and benefits the best teachers.
It's a win-win!




1. Senior teachers in NYC earn upwards of $100k. Class size, about 30. So...About $3,500/per student.

2. Allow each teacher to decide how many students are in his or her class...paid $3500 for each student per 10 months.

3. Remove any student you feel prevents you from doing the job....Throw out any student, and it costs you $3500, prorated.

a. So...if you have 10 students, and one is an impediment.....you're looking at a gross, before taxes, of $31,500.....food stamp territory.
The result would be poor teachers would be poor....and probably move on to other vocations.
Competition works.

4. Opt for extra students, an extra $3500 per. ( 50 students would mean $175,000/year.)
Sure would pay to be a good teacher, huh?




5.Exams are needed to test what each system deems proper.
This is key.
Any student who does not pass a final exam, loss of $3500 to the teacher.
This is responsibility for the product.

a. The plan could be tweaked by having more tests....and prorating the amount failing students would cost the teacher.

6. Bonuses if your students earn even higher grades.
Of course, the grades for passing and bonuses would differ for each student or
locale....and this can be done with computer programs.

a. "CourseSmart is owned by Pearson, McGraw-Hill and other major publishers, which see an opportunity to cement their dominance in digital textbooks by offering administrators and faculty a constant stream of data about how students are doing."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/t...rogress-for-teachers.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0




7. But some schools are better....so teachers bid for the appointment.....accept less per student to get into a really good school!
That's the free-market.




8. Disruptive students that no teacher wants? Throw 'em out!

Don't tell me you can't throw 'em out: change the law!

Heck....if our progressives value the collective....use value in the school system!
Public education is for the group, less for the individual student, especially one who demands a huge percentage of the teacher's attention.


Am I a problem-solver or what!!!

I'll go with the "or what"

Brilliant.....just brilliant.

 

[hoosier88]

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek :

Relationship with the United States [edit] ...

(My bold in quote)

Link: "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name."

My bad - URL is Chiang Kai-shek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PoliticalChic]

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek :

Relationship with the United States [edit] ...

(My bold in quote)

Link: "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name."

My bad - URL is Chiang Kai-shek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems that Jonathan Fenby was not a fan of Chiang.

Fenby, editor of the Observer, was a Liberal...I wonder if that might have something to do with it.

 

[hoosier88]

Yah, & Gen. Stilwell was a closet Commie, no doubt. & the OSS, & the US military attaches & the State Dept. people who saw the Gmo & Mao Tse Dong up close - yah, they were all Commie symps, no question ...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yah, & Gen. Stilwell was a closet Commie, no doubt. & the OSS, & the US military attaches & the State Dept. people who saw the Gmo & Mao Tse Dong up close - yah, they were all Commie symps, no question ...

Oh....did I step on your toes?


Perhaps you might pick up one of the books by Haynes and Klehr before you toss of the word 'communist' in cavalier fashion.

 

[editec]

I thought this thread was about EDUCATION.

Why have a debate about China here?

 

[PoliticalChic]

"My post was addressing deficiencies found in the original proposal to "fix" education.

It had obvious mistaken notions about class sizes being 30 students and it wildly inflated the amount of pay MOST teachers get, too"

I'm surprised that you don't read more carefully.

Nowhere does it say that most teachers get that amount.


And, the amount in question is merely a mathematical artifact of the proposal.

You may adjust it for locale and still use the proposal.

The point is that capitalism is the answer, not socialism....or Marxism. The current system pays based on seniority, not efficacy.
My idea is to allow teacher a free hand, thereby removing excuses, and judging by the product.

I believe I could devise a market driven educational system that functions more like you RW folks imagine ED ought to behave.

I have some doubts about whether the aggregate ED outcome would be much better than we have now.

I also have my doubts about whether it would be cheaper, too.

But from the standpoint of being a professional educator myself, I can assure you that my system would please far more educators than what they face now.

This might please you though..,my system would start out with EDUCATIONAL VOUCHERS for every citizen.

It would ALSO eliminate every STATE AND LOCAL educational system making the entire FUNDING a FEDERAL system of vouchers.

The schools themselves would be privately owned and operated, but the voucher funding would be public.

OK...ok....don't get your back up.

I didn't answer this out of lack of respect...but out of consideration for time and space.
For the abridged version....

1. Federal gov has no business in education

2. State or local vouchers with tax considerations, fine.

3.".....I can assure you that my system would please far more educators than what they face now."

This one is the prob.....I insist that it be based on making everyone an American....not pandering to individual groups....

...and, no closet communists who try to hide the foibles of a particular political group....

"a. The federally funded “National History Standards” for elementary schools were released in 1994, cemented a revisionist view of American Communism for schoolteachers, as the guide mentions McCarthy over twenty times, while Edison and the Wright Brothers got no mention. “It …repeatedly condemns McCarthyism as an unmitigated evil…[but] the Hiss-Chambers and Rosenberg cases, the two dominant controversies of the anticommunist era, are described with bland, neutral language crafted to keep from implying guilt while not being quite so foolhardy as to actually assert innocence..’National Standards’…implies that the cases are part and parcel of the McCartyite horror.”
From “In Denial,” by Haynes and Klehr, pg. 151

b. Revisionist views are found, for example, in the work of Ellen Wolf Schrecker, Ph.D., a professor of American history at Yeshiva University, who states “ whatever threat to the United States such espionage [by US citizens working for Soviet intelligence] may have posed, it was gone by the time the main justification for the McCarthy-era purges.” The revisionists claim that the greater sin was not the betrayal of the country by American Communists, but anticommunists using that betrayal as “a rationalization for the most widespread and the longest-lasting episode of political repression in our nation’s history.


We may be bumping heads here....

 

[Katzndogz]

Recognize that the current system of education does not work. Scrap the whole idea of readying every child for college and get real.

 

[hoosier88]

Yah, & Gen. Stilwell was a closet Commie, no doubt. & the OSS, & the US military attaches & the State Dept. people who saw the Gmo & Mao Tse Dong up close - yah, they were all Commie symps, no question ...

Oh....did I step on your toes?

Perhaps you might pick up one of the books by Haynes and Klehr before you toss of the word 'communist' in cavalier fashion.

Nah, I live out West, but I'm not all that fond of horses - big, skittish animals. I'll stand by my sources, thanks.

 

[editec]

I believe I could devise a market driven educational system that functions more like you RW folks imagine ED ought to behave.

I have some doubts about whether the aggregate ED outcome would be much better than we have now.

I also have my doubts about whether it would be cheaper, too.

But from the standpoint of being a professional educator myself, I can assure you that my system would please far more educators than what they face now.

This might please you though..,my system would start out with EDUCATIONAL VOUCHERS for every citizen.

It would ALSO eliminate every STATE AND LOCAL educational system making the entire FUNDING a FEDERAL system of vouchers.

The schools themselves would be privately owned and operated, but the voucher funding would be public.

OK...ok....don't get your back up.

Okay. That ought to be fairly easy as my back wasn't "up" in the first place.

I didn't answer this out of lack of respect...but out of consideration for time and space.
For the abridged version....

1. Federal gov has no business in education

My plan would not put the FEDERAL government int he business of education, it would simply make the FEDERAL government the paymaster for VOUCHERS

2. State or local vouchers with tax considerations, fine.

That's what we have NOW. How's that working out for us?

3.".....I can assure you that my system would please far more educators than what they face now."

This one is the prob.....I insist that it be based on making everyone an American....not pandering to individual groups....

Wait...isn't the current right wing complaint the fact that STATE AND LOCAL governments (the very organizations you support as rightfully being in the ED business) are PANDERING to teacher unions?

Or are you not on the same page with those right wingers who think that is true?

...and, no closet communists who try to hide the foibles of a particular political group....

I have no idea what communists have to do with this discussion.

"a. The federally funded “National History Standards” for elementary schools were released in 1994, cemented a revisionist view of American Communism for schoolteachers, as the guide mentions McCarthy over twenty times, while Edison and the Wright Brothers got no mention. “It …repeatedly condemns McCarthyism as an unmitigated evil…[but] the Hiss-Chambers and Rosenberg cases, the two dominant controversies of the anticommunist era, are described with bland, neutral language crafted to keep from implying guilt while not being quite so foolhardy as to actually assert innocence..’National Standards’…implies that the cases are part and parcel of the McCartyite horror.”
From “In Denial,” by Haynes and Klehr, pg. 151

I think you are very confused here. I am proposing that the FEDERAL government doles out Vouchers to students who them attend PRIVATELY RUN SCHOOLS that do not ASNWER top either FEDERAL STATE OR LOCAL governments.

I apparently am more of a FREE MARKET EDUCATOR than you are, PC.

b. Revisionist views are found, for example, in the work of Ellen Wolf Schrecker, Ph.D., a professor of American history at Yeshiva University, who states “ whatever threat to the United States such espionage [by US citizens working for Soviet intelligence] may have posed, it was gone by the time the main justification for the McCarthy-era purges.” The revisionists claim that the greater sin was not the betrayal of the country by American Communists, but anticommunists using that betrayal as “a rationalization for the most widespread and the longest-lasting episode of political repression in our nation’s history.


We may be bumping heads here....

I suspect we are.

You are apparently assuming that you know what I am proposing based on what?

Certainly nothing I wrote in this thread.

Now let me explain WHY I suggested that TEACHERS would like this plan more than what they have now.

Because in this plan TEACHERS, not governments would run and own the schools.

Wild idea, eh?

letting the professionals make decisions about how an operation is run?

Now does that sound like socialism to you?

Certainly what I am proposing is far less socialistic than what we have now.

After thought

FYI: I have actually run a PRIVATE FOR PROFIT EDUCATIONAL learning center.


I paid my educators VERY well for their services.

The parents paid though the nose for that educational service, of course.

That is why I p[ropose that the FED must be the paymaster for the vouchers, too.

Because local and state governments have failed and failed and failed education for at least the last 40 years.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Okay. That ought to be fairly easy as my back wasn't "up" in the first place.

I didn't answer this out of lack of respect...but out of consideration for time and space.
For the abridged version....



My plan would not put the FEDERAL government int he business of education, it would simply make the FEDERAL government the paymaster for VOUCHERS



That's what we have NOW. How's that working out for us?



Wait...isn't the current right wing complaint the fact that STATE AND LOCAL governments (the very organizations you support as rightfully being in the ED business) are PANDERING to teacher unions?

Or are you not on the same page with those right wingers who think that is true?




I have no idea what communists have to do with this discussion.



I think you are very confused here. I am proposing that the FEDERAL government doles out Vouchers to students who them attend PRIVATELY RUN SCHOOLS that do not ASNWER top either FEDERAL STATE OR LOCAL governments.

I apparently am more of a FREE MARKET EDUCATOR than you are, PC.



I suspect we are.

You are apparently assuming that you know what I am proposing based on what?

Certainly nothing I wrote in this thread.

Now let me explain WHY I suggested that TEACHERS would like this plan more than what they have now.

Because in this plan TEACHERS, not governments would run and own the schools.

Wild idea, eh?

letting the professionals make decisions about how an operation is run?

Now does that sound like socialism to you?

Certainly what I am proposing is far less socialistic than what we have now.

After thought

FYI: I have actually run a PRIVATE FOR PROFIT EDUCATIONAL learning center.


I paid my educators VERY well for their services.

The parents paid though the nose for that educational service, of course.

That is why I p[ropose that the FED must be the paymaster for the vouchers, too.

Because local and state governments have failed and failed and failed education for at least the last 40 years.

1. re: vouchers "That's what we have NOW. How's that working out for us?"
How so?

As a homeschooler, I get neither state/city tax consideration, nor any federal deduction....

And, I pay for public schools through my taxes.


2. "Because in this plan TEACHERS, not governments would run and own the schools."
That's the essence of the OP.

My problem is not with teachers, but with the educrats who decide the curricula.


3. "Now does that sound like socialism to you?"
The socialism to which I refer is what is being taught.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

We should admit that public education is a failure and end it. It's become a boondoggle that benefits no one but teachers and administrators.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We should admit that public education is a failure and end it. It's become a boondoggle that benefits no one but teachers and administrators.

....and Democrat candidates....