Solution For Illegal Immigration (residence And Entry)

[BrianH]

Another note to TORO as to the military draft option. The goal of the solution is help and do what is best for country. The draft would hopefully eliminate or at least reduce the stop-loss, extended tours and extra tours of our troups in such places like Iraq.

There's been a few threads on the draft. In the event of a large scale world war....I'm for the draft. But until the shit hits the fan...a draft would not work or be effective IMO, considering that Iraq is not a war in which is fought with front-lines and a clear enemy. If a draft were inacted today, you'd simply be sending more troops into the warzone with same situations and problems that we can't seem to solve. I used to be in favor of just drafting and sending a shit-load of troops over there to end this bastard. But that was at the beginning of the war when it was only about 2 years old. If we had just sent in that many troops to begin with, we may have a different situation.

Some say it would be cheaper, it wouldn't. If you wanted to raise a larger force, it would cost money. Not to mention it would be equally expensive in that they would need the same equipment, supplies, training, etc... All you're doing is replacing people who want to be there with people who don't. Then you have to worry about draft dodgers and AWOLs.

Because Iraq is an unpopular war, the draft will not work as it is designed to. Case in point--Vietnam. (I'm not comparing the characteristics to Vietnam, but the shear unpopularity of the war itself)....hell one of our Presidents was a draft dodger from the Vietnam era. As far as stop-loss, I don't believe a draft would do either, in a draft, the gov. and military sets the time limit. Vietnam just happened to be 1 tour of about a year (correct vets?--give or take a year for a tour in Vietnam?) However, in WWII, you were drafted, and sent for the duration of the war. If you were wounded, you healed, and they sent you back if you could fight.

I'm not quite sure a draft would be the best thing for Iraq right now, unless something really drastic happened and another country got involved, against us. Feel free to prove me wrong though, it's happened before.

 

[Brent of Fresno]

OK I'm new to this internet message board stuff. I am using the local library computers so it may take a couple of to reply to comments. Please hang in untill I get better at this. This is a reply to Shogun. The military actually has a program of service for citizenship already. My draft is to first detour illegal entry into the country. Second it is to ease the manpower demands for any military operation.

 

[Brent of Fresno]

A reply to Contessa Sharra. Thank you for the concern and comment. The eye problem has more to do with old age rather than sun & dust. I am use to both having lived in Los Angeles for many years and then Weaverville (CA). Try finding that tiny town! By the way where is Weedpatch? Is it a town or an empty lot? Out of time now will try to reply to Brian H. next time.

 

[Gunny]

A reply to Contessa Sharra. Thank you for the concern and comment. The eye problem has more to do with old age rather than sun & dust. I am use to both having lived in Los Angeles for many years and then Weaverville (CA). Try finding that tiny town! By the way where is Weedpatch? Is it a town or an empty lot? Out of time now will try to reply to Brian H. next time.

If you wish to reply to a specific individual/post, click on the "quote" button in the bottom right hand corner of that particular post and it will bring that post up in quotes. Then you respond as I have to yours.

 

[Gunny]

Are you enslaved if you choose to be an illegal resident and pay an extra tax (compensation fund)? It would be like FICA, that is a percent of income. FICA by the way is social security. As to unemployment, welfare or any support program all must be paid from the compensation fund, remember all costs caused by illegal residents must be paid by them.

Are you listening to yourself?

You're talking about having a less-than-equal set of rules for a specific demograph, the vast majority being Hispanic. They can be drafted just whenever, and you can arbitrarily send them back without due process.

In other words, your enitre idea is a violation of the priniciples this Nation was founded on, and the US Constitution itself.

I have NO problem with treating illegals in accordance with the law. Process them and send them back where they came from.

I DO have a problem with offering them a "little less than" US citizenship.

 

[007]

There Is A Solution For Illegal Immigration And I Have Sent It To Several People In The Media (glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, Bill O'reilly And Others) Who Have Complained About Illegal Immigration But So Far They Have Shown Zero Interest. The Question Is Why? This Is The Solution I Have Sent. First, To Ensure Maximum Effort For Security At All Points Of Entry (airports, Harbors, And Land Borders), Any Federal Employee Involved With Homeland Security Can Be Fired By Citizen Complaint. A Complaint Of Incompetent Or Indifferent Job Performance Will Be Verified By A Board Of Review. Second, Registration And Probation. All Illegal Residents Will Register With The Federal Government Giving All Necessary Information. Then They Will Be Placed On Probation And Issued An Id Permit Card. This Probation Permit Will Allow Them To Live And Work In The United States And Also Obtain A Legal Social Security Card And A Drivers License. This Permit Would Be Revoked For Any Violation Of Probation. One Of The Conditions Of Probation Will Be To Pay Into A Compensation Fund. This Fund Will Pay For Any Damage And Costs Caused By Illegal Residents Or By Illegal Entry. Third, During And After Registration Anyone Entering The Country Illegally Will Be Deported For The First Offense. For A Second Offense That Person Will Become Part Of A Federal Labor Group. This Group Will Be Used In Areas Of Public Works, Labor Shortage Or Disaster Relief. When Needed, Members Of This Group Can Be Drafted By Any Branch Of The Military. After Registration Any Business Using An Illegal Worker Will For The First Offense Pay A Fine Equal To The Highest Compensation Paid To An Employee By The Company. A Second Offense Will Result In Loss Of Ownership. The Money Goes Into The Probation Compensation Fund. These Are The Primary Or Starting Points Of The Solution. There Are More Secondary Measures That Can Be Discussed Later. This Will Do What Is Best For Our Country-- Not Special Interests.

In other words Brent.... "amnesty." Sell out America to whoever can jump the border and not get caught aye? Spit in the face of those who come here legally? Just where do your loyalties lay....

 

[Brent of Fresno]

Are you listening to yourself?

You're talking about having a less-than-equal set of rules for a specific demograph, the vast majority being Hispanic. They can be drafted just whenever, and you can arbitrarily send them back without due process.

In other words, your enitre idea is a violation of the priniciples this Nation was founded on, and the US Constitution itself.

I have NO problem with treating illegals in accordance with the law. Process them and send them back where they came from.

I DO have a problem with offering them a "little less than" US citizenship.

Those placed in the Federal labor group ( your specific demograph?) are there because they repeatedly violated the laws of entry into our country. That is their only commonality (demographic). The solution does not violate due process, the Constitution or anything else. If you think you really have an example, please be specific and I can show you how you are wrong. As to 'less than citizens' would you offer to make them citizens first?? The probation program offers illegal residents a chance to comply with our laws, pay back the costs, and have a history of positive contribution to our country. When they finish the probation program then you can consider citizenship.

 

[Brent of Fresno]

In other words Brent.... "amnesty." Sell out America to whoever can jump the border and not get caught aye? Spit in the face of those who come here legally? Just where do your loyalties lay....

Once again, this solution is NOT an amnesty program. Amnesty is forgiveness, that is no penalties, no conditions, no prison time, a clean slate for illegal residents. My solution does not do that. I am old enough to remember the complete failure of President Reagans' amnesty back in the 80s. You need to read the solution rationally not emotionally.

 

[Gunny]

Those placed in the Federal labor group ( your specific demograph?) are there because they repeatedly violated the laws of entry into our country. That is their only commonality (demographic). The solution does not violate due process, the Constitution or anything else. If you think you really have an example, please be specific and I can show you how you are wrong. As to 'less than citizens' would you offer to make them citizens first?? The probation program offers illegal residents a chance to comply with our laws, pay back the costs, and have a history of positive contribution to our country. When they finish the probation program then you can consider citizenship.

There are specific laws for dealing with illegal immigrants. Slave labor is NOT on the list. It obviously violates the Constitution if we cannot do it to US criminals incarcerated in the US. Those days are long gone.

And no, I didn't offer any deals on citizenship. You're the one overthinking everything.

Enforce the laws we have now.

 

[Skull Pilot]

the immigration problem is here to stay as long as we have politicians are to weak kneed to secure our borders and establish controls on immigration. the problem of the Mexican border is only a fraction of the whole. Most illegal immigrants enter the country on tourist or student visas and then stay.

Part of the reason why we cannot get these people out is the very reason they come here and that is our constitution. the wording of which promises rights and freedoms to "people" and not citizens.

we should push for an amendment that changes the word "people" in the constitution to citizens. then we would not have to convey the same rights and privileges on those who are here illegally and hence do not qualify.

 

[editec]

Come down like a ton of bricks on the corporations and people who hire illegals and this problem will solve itself.

The illegals cannot be blamed for coming here to make a better life for themselves.

The same cannot be said of the people who hire them to save a few bucks.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

A reply to Contessa Sharra. Thank you for the concern and comment. The eye problem has more to do with old age rather than sun & dust. I am use to both having lived in Los Angeles for many years and then Weaverville (CA). Try finding that tiny town! By the way where is Weedpatch? Is it a town or an empty lot? Out of time now will try to reply to Brian H. next time.

Weedpatch is South and a little west of Bakersfield,, a crossroads, mostly, dust and fields, and an Hispanic general store, mostly, and very close to the location of the Wambaugh book The Onion Field, west of 99 and East of 5, not far from Arvin.

Weedpatch Camp

 

[AllieBaba]

Illegals cannot get welfare or unemployment benefits.


Changing the Constitution to disallow "anchor" citizenship when both parents are illegal will solve that problem, too.

Not true. Illegals CAN get welfare....foodstamps and medical for children and pregnant women, and some others (it recently changed to be more inclusive).

Afghanis and Iraqis get a free ride all the way as refugees, legal or not.
We waive citizenship requirements for Domestic Violence applicants.

So you're completely wrong when you say illegals can't get welfare. They can, and they do.

Not to mention the welfare they get while they're overburdening our prisons and jails....3 squares and a cot.

 

[AllieBaba]

Come down like a ton of bricks on the corporations and people who hire illegals and this problem will solve itself.

The illegals cannot be blamed for coming here to make a better life for themselves.

The same cannot be said of the people who hire them to save a few bucks.

If we would stop raising the min wage, there would be no reason to hire them to "save a few bucks". Get rid of minimum wage and the problem will solve itself.

 

[Ravi]

Not true. Illegals CAN get welfare....foodstamps and medical for children and pregnant women, and some others (it recently changed to be more inclusive).

Afghanis and Iraqis get a free ride all the way as refugees, legal or not.
We waive citizenship requirements for Domestic Violence applicants.

So you're completely wrong when you say illegals can't get welfare. They can, and they do.

Not to mention the welfare they get while they're overburdening our prisons and jails....3 squares and a cot.

WHO CANNOT GET FOOD STAMPS? The following CANNOT get food stamps, regardless of how low their income is:

• Most strikers.
• Most college and university students between the ages of 18-59, unless they meet one of the exceptions listed above
• Illegal immigrants

FOOD STAMPS

 

[Shogun]

In fiscal year 1995, about $1.1 billion in AFDC and Food Stamp benefits
were provided to households with an illegal alien parent for the use of his
or her citizen child. This amount accounted for about 3 percent of AFDC
and 2 percent of Food Stamp benefit costs. A vast majority of the
households receiving these benefits resided in a few states—85 percent of
the AFDC households were in California, New York, Texas, and Arizona; 81
percent of Food Stamp households were in California, Texas, and Arizona.
California households alone accounted for $720 million of the combined
AFDC and Food Stamp benefit costs, with such households representing
about 10 percent of the state’s AFDC and Food Stamp caseloads. Although
illegal aliens also received SSI and HUD housing assistance for their citizen
children, data to develop estimates for these two programs were not
available.
Comprehensive national statistics on any misrepresentation or fraud
perpetrated by illegal aliens receiving benefits on behalf of their citizen
children are not available. However, a few California counties’ studies of
AFDC households indicate that the rates and types of potential
misrepresentation or fraud are similar both for households headed by
illegal aliens and for the general welfare population. In these studies, one
of the most commonly cited types of misrepresentation or fraud was the
underreporting of income. Income is a key factor in determining program
eligibility and benefit amounts and, when underreported, can result in
overpayment of benefits. The states we visited had procedures in place to
verify income; however, officials said that verifying individuals’ income
from earnings obtained through the underground economy was very
difficult—for both illegal aliens and citizens—in part because these
earnings are not documented or reported to state or federal databases
used to verify employment and earnings.
Background An estimated 5 million illegal aliens resided in the United St


http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

 

[AllieBaba]

The only person who has to provide ID is the head of household...and the head of household can be anyone in the house over 18. Unless we have a particular reason to doubt citizenship, we do not check, and are not required to check if the income level is below 185 percent of the poverty level (which makes them categorically eligible...which means citizenship is not an issue unless something comes up which makes it one.)
You can argue all you like, but I'm telling you like it is. You've given as your link the United Way of Connecticut.

Here's from our policy (department of human service manuals eligibility manual)
"Citizenship/alien requirements may be waived if the client is fleeing or at risk of domestic violence (refer to TANF section K)."

"A person born outside of the U.S. who is over 18 years of age, but who has at least one parent who is a U.S. citizen. The person must either have a certificate of U.S. citizenship or meet one of the following criteria:
- Born on or after December 24, 1952, and prior to November 14, 1986, and their citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. or its outlying possessions for 10 years or more, at least 5 of which were after age 14.

- Born on or after November 14, 1986, and their citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. or its outlying possessions 5 years or more, at least 2 of which were after age 14."

"The following people also meet alien status requirements for TANF:
American Indians born in Canada; or
Noncitizens (regardless of INS status) who are currently victims of domestic violence or are at risk of victimization by domestic violence."


And while ineligible noncitizens (if we for some reason question citizenship) cannot receive fs themselves (but they do all the time) they can obtain it for their families, and their income is not counted, which means more fs for the family.
An ineligible noncitizen is receiving TANF (Program 2) for a child. Her income and resources were used to determine eligibility for TANF and she is ineligible for TANF solely due to citizenship/alien status. This family is categorically eligible for FS. This means that even though the noncitizen is not eligible for FS, their resources are not considered when determining FS eligibility for the rest of the household. It also means that the computer will not look at the countable or adjusted income limits. The CAT EL field should have a "C" and the CATEG field should be "NA" and each person should have a CMS case and person letter listed."

So you can see, there are all kinds of loopholes there. And what it comes down to is this.....illegals do get benefits. They get them through their children, through their parents, through their significant others, through domestic violence situations, through pregnancy, etc.

State of Oregon: Department of Human Services

 

[Shogun]

Memorandum Clarifying Immigrants' Eligibility for Food Stamps

Implementation of Section 510 of the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act, Public Law 104-208
October 24, 1996

Noncitizens who were receiving food stamps on August 22, 1996, will not lose benefits due to their immigration status until at least April 22, 1997. If, for example, a person moves to another State or has a break in eligibility because of something unrelated to his or her noncitizen status (such as a temporary increase in earnings) and applies again before April 1, 1997, the new noncitizen eligibility requirements would not apply.

The following memorandum announced that policy to FCS regional offices and directed them to transmit it immediately to the States.

October 24, 1996

Subject: FSP - Status of Noncitizen Applicants Prior to April 1, 1997

To: All Regional Administrators / Food and Consumer Service

Please transmit the policy in this memorandum to State Commissioners immediately.

State agencies have asked if the provisions of section 402 of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act of 1996 (PRWORA) should be applied to noncitizen applicants in the following situations:

1.

A noncitizen who was receiving food stamps on August 22, 1996, the date of enactment of the PRWORA, moves to another State and applies for benefits.
2.

A noncitizen who was receiving food stamps on August 22, 1996, becomes ineligible for a reason unrelated to alien status, such as increased income. The individual subsequently reapplies for benefits prior to April 1, 1997.

In these situations, the State agency should determine the individual's eligibility under the provisions of section 6(f) of the Food Stamp Act and should not apply the PRWORA provisions. Section 510 of the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act, Pub. L. 104-208, provides that ineligibility under paragraph (1) of section 402(a) shall not apply until April 1, 1997, to an alien who received food stamps on the date of enactment of the PRWORA, unless the alien is determined to be ineligible to receive benefits under the Food Stamp Act of 1977. Therefore, a noncitizen who was participating on August 22, 1996, shall not be determined ineligible solely on the basis of the PRWORA noncitizen provisions.

Please let us know if you have any questions.

/s/

Yvette S. Jackson
Deputy Administrator
Food Stamp Program


Memorandum Clarifying Immigrants' Eligibility for Food Stamps

 

[Shogun]

i tellya.. Ravi and her lambada dance around facts...

 

[AllieBaba]

I mean, honestly, I don't care. The foodstamp program is highly funded as it is. But I can't stand it when people just outright lie about who gets foodstamps, and where the money goes. (Or, since it's Ravi....get fact and opinion confused.....)