So You Despise Capitalism? Please Give Us Your Alternative...

[ScienceRocks]

A good part of the reason why you can't raise the minimum wage to 20 dollars a hour is you will cut more into the profit. When you cut into profit you have to raise the prices of "goods" that you're selling. So pretty soon the consumer is paying more, even through they have more money(more fiat paper) to spend, but at the end of the day it comes out near the same. The dollar is devalue more. Wonder why your grandpa said that he could buy bread for pennies, well theres part of your reason.

Goes from the worker getting paid for his service
Worker pays for what he needs from other businesses


If lets say today he gets 400 dollars per week for his profit(work)...He needs to spend 375 dollars for food, rent, car-gas, to insure the thing...25 dollars to do as he wishes.

Well raise the minimum wage

He now gets 550 dollars per week...But because of the product is more expensive from food right down the list...He has to put out 525 per month now. He doesn't improve his life...A million dollars is worth less now.

 

[bripat9643]

When you say "Anti-Capitalism crowd" are you really referring to the crowd that sees Runaway Corporate Greed is causing out of control Corruption?

Anyone who uses terms like "corporate greed" is an anti-capitalist.

 

[bripat9643]

Exactly.

It all comes down to what is meant by "capitalism." Some of the possible definitions include:

1) Any economic system in which the means of production are for the most part privately owned.

Yes.

2) An economic/political system in which all economic activity is organized for the purpose of maximizing the accumulation of capital.

No.

3) A privately-owned economic system in which the government does not impose any regulations or restrictions beyond the protection of property rights and the enforcement of contract law.

Yes.

#1 and #3 refer to the same thing. They are definitely not mutually exclusive.

Choose which of these definitions you mean when you say "capitalism," or supply your own, and then first ASK whether anyone wants to replace capitalism rather than fatuously ASSUMING that to be the case.

As a follow-up question, you may THEN ask what they want to replace it with. Becaue then you will have established that, in fact, they do. Otherwise, this thread is completely pointless.

You're just another weasel trying to avoid answering the question about what you would replace capitalism with.

 

[bripat9643]

"Well, they want "fairness". Meaning total equality"

I'd say that a majority of Americans do want "fairness" and at least something closer to the wealth/income equality than we have now. They would be thrilled if their share of the National Income was like what it was 1960's & 1970's, when the Middle Class was strong. Too many, that'd would be fair, except for the defenders of today's status qua of a failing Main Street America.

The belief that the Middle Class was better off in the 1960s are based entirely on delusion and bogus statistics.

Everyone wants more than they have. The only question is, which policies will produce the desired result. High taxes and massive regulation do not improve the nation's standard of living.

 

[jillian]

Exactly.

It all comes down to what is meant by "capitalism." Some of the possible definitions include:

1) Any economic system in which the means of production are for the most part privately owned.

Yes.

2) An economic/political system in which all economic activity is organized for the purpose of maximizing the accumulation of capital.

No.

3) A privately-owned economic system in which the government does not impose any regulations or restrictions beyond the protection of property rights and the enforcement of contract law.

Yes.

#1 and #3 refer to the same thing. They are definitely not mutually exclusive.

Choose which of these definitions you mean when you say "capitalism," or supply your own, and then first ASK whether anyone wants to replace capitalism rather than fatuously ASSUMING that to be the case.

As a follow-up question, you may THEN ask what they want to replace it with. Becaue then you will have established that, in fact, they do. Otherwise, this thread is completely pointless.

You're just another weasel trying to avoid answering the question about what you would replace capitalism with.

no one wants to replace capitalism, you braindead twit.

 

[bripat9643]

Guts and brains?

You accuse people of being "Anti-Capitalism" yet you yourself can't even define what that means! Well, can't define or WON'T define. Not sure yet which.

It's not "anti-capitalism" but rather "anti-profit" that defines the modern progressive.[/QUOTE]

If you are anti-profit, then you are anti-capitalist.

 

[editec]

What a steaming load of bullshit this thread is premised on.

 

[bripat9643]

no one wants to replace capitalism, you braindead twit.

Yeah, right. They just want to abolish all the legal infrastructure that capitalism requires to operate, but they still want the benefits of capitalism. The brain dead twits are the ones who think you can abolish profits without abolishing capitalism.

 

[bripat9643]

I haven't accused anyone here of being Anti-Capitalism. It's up to the individual whether or not they want to discuss their Anti-Capitalism stance. No one is being forced to discuss. But your comment implies there are no Anti-Capitalists in this country. And i'm sorry,but i have to disagree with you on that implication. But again,no one is being forced to discuss. I was just looking for some honesty & openness on this issue. Peace.

You are being seriously disingenuous here, and presenting a damned-either-way scenario. Anyone who refuses to answer the question because it is based on a false premise, you have set up to be accused of lacking "honesty and openness."

No, sir. It is you who lack honesty. This entire thread is a lie.

The premise isn't false. Anti-capitalists in this forum are a dime a dozen. anti-capitalists who deny they want to abolish capitalism are almost as numerous.

 

[jillian]

no one wants to replace capitalism, you braindead twit.

Yeah, right. They just want to abolish all the legal infrastructure that capitalism requires to operate, but they still want the benefits of capitalism. The brain dead twits are the ones who think you can abolish profits without abolishing capitalism.

there is no nebulous "they". only hacks think there is.

i am a firm believer in profits. i'm just not stupid enough to think that laissez faire capitalism should be resurrected from it's well-earned grave.

perhaps learning some history on that subject would help you.

 

[bripat9643]

I can see that someone is a tool for the status quo environment where the Main Street America contines to take steps backwards economically and Big Business dictates America's misery index.

You're obviously in the anti-capitalist crowd. labeling anyone who opposes socialism as "for the status quo" is just a cheap propaganda trick. Every step towards socialism and away from the free market is a step backward, so in that sense you are correct. We have been marching backwards ever since the Wilson administration.

 

[bripat9643]

I see you are too scared to define your terms. You just want to insult and twist words.

Why don't you man up and join the conversation? Maybe then you'll get more responses.

Quite hiding behind this idiotic demand to define capitalism. Virtually everyone who isn't suffering from brain damage understands the term.

 

[bripat9643]

Actually, isn't Obama pushing a jobs bill that will create lots of jobs while fixing the infrastructure of this country?

No. All his "jobs bill" will do is put more tics on the government payroll.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes.

And since he will be outsourcing most, if not all, of the work, it would mean a ton of cash for businesses.

Kind of a, I don't know, pro-Capitalism policy.

ROFL! A massive increase in taxes and government spending is "pro-capitalism?"

Idiocies like that are the reason it's pointless to argue with leftwing numbskulls like you.

 

[bripat9643]

We just need more honest discussion on this. It's time to hash this out. No need to hedge on your opinions here either. If you're Anti-Capitalism,just say it and then elaborate on it. And your ideas on an alternative system will be appreciated. Lets have an open & honest discussion on this.

Why don't you start by defining what you think it means to be "anti-Capitalism" ?

Just answer the question. Stop analyzing the OP....Just use your own words and respond honestly.

Liberals are incapable of responding honestly about their beliefs. That would require them to quit lying to themselves.

 

[bripat9643]

Two words: total bullshit.

Either your thinking has been shaped by the Fox News propaganda machine or you are attempting to promote the mistaken idea that capitalism must exist in whole form (laissez faire) or not at all. The fact is capitalism is a productive system but it must be controlled by expedient socialist regulations, as it was during our most productive and equitably distributed decades.

All of the problems we're experiencing today are the result of deregulation, which began with Jimmy Carter and continued through Reagan, Clinton and Bush-2. All of that tampering with the carefully assembled mechanism of our dynamic economic system caused it to malfunction and ultimately collapse.

Those are the facts but you won't hear them from Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity or the rest of the multi-millionaire corporatist propagandists.

 

[bripat9643]

The Left has delivered a clear message that capitalism has run it's course and something new should be tried.
Elaborate on the "something new".

Don't you find all this weaseling and evasion repulsive? These people do nothing here but bash capitalism 24/7 and then they try to pretend they aren't opposed to capitalism. That's because they minute they admit the truth they know they will become the targets of well deserved ridicule.

 

[bripat9643]

Why don't you start with showing us how the "Left has delivered a clear message that capitalism has run it's course" ?

Signs carried by OWS protesters:

"Eat the rich"
"A job is a right. Capitalism doesn't work"
"Class warfare, and we're losing"
"Kill corporate greed."
"Decolonize Wall Street"

 

[bripat9643]

It wasn't a trillion and it created millions of jobs.

Prove it.

 

[JoeB131]

I just wanted to take this opportunity to give the Anti-Capitalism crowd a chance to elaborate on their Anti-Capitalism stance. I would also like to give them a chance to explain in an articulate fashion what they would replace Capitalism with. Because in my opinion it's just not enough to 'occupy' and screech slogans. And i'm really not trying to be a smart ass here either. I am very interested in hearing their ideas. Shouting angry slogans at each other wont get us anywhere. So lets hear those ideas on what you want to replace Capitalism with. Thanks.

I don't think it's a problem of wanting to end Capitalism in that realizing capitalism has to reform.

We've recovered from the recession, but the jobs haven't appeared, and we are likely to go into another recession because of it.

The old school was that capitalism produced jobs. Jobs produced consumers. consumers produced profits.

Somewhere along the line, they figured out how to create profits without creating jobs, and the system is off kilter.