So You Despise Capitalism? Please Give Us Your Alternative...

[mascale]

The Bush Tax Cuts are the infamous, "investment tax credits," which created little more than looting of the market-place of invested money. Any money made, especially last winter stayed out of the market place.

Banks are alleged to be lending the hoards they have, but are not. Corporations are alleged to be creating new plants and purchasing new equipment, but are not.

What is "saving" clearly shown to mean in the phoney allegations of an existing "capitalist" concept? "Everybody Freeze! Hands Up! Assume The Position!" Is generally what "saving" really means. The United States tends to save less than 5% of income, but that is generally banked. Banks send out credit cards, and so consumers do that. That is not personaly saving, but is normal business. It has nothing to do with the phoney concept, "capitalism!"

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
("Chicken In Every Pot! Yard Sales In Every Garage!" Not Ever Said to Be "Capitalism," but is said to be ghetto-class economics. Pureyor say, "Nein! Nein! Nein!" "Nein!" to any taxes on used goods sales, suggests the preference, clearly intended!)

 

[paulitician]

And how many small businesses has Governor Brown just put out of business in California? His Tanning ban is going to kill many small businesses out there. I just don't get the Socialists/Progressives in this country. Losing more jobs is exactly what California doesn't need. They're making some very bad decisions these days.

 

[kaz]

This is right up there with "are you still beating your wife." Nobody despised capitalism until they hoovered up all the money, and nobody will despise it again once we've returned financial health to the USA.

The ones who are warping capitalism are the ones doing it in the only lasting way it can be done, with guns. And the ones who control the guns are the politicians. Sending the ones with guns in who are destroying capitalism to cure capitalism and then expecting our "financial health" to be "returned" is more of a fantasy then believing in Leprechauns.

 

[Twofox]

So, for those dodging the question:

Webster Dictionary:

Definition of CAPITALISM
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Definition of ANTI
: one that is opposed


Also, to explain why no alternatives have been offered:

Definition of OBFUSCATE
transitive verb
1a : darken b : to make obscure <obfuscate the issue>
2: confuse <obfuscate the reader>
intransitive verb
: to be evasive, unclear, or confusing
— ob·fus·ca·tion \&#716;äb-(&#716f&#601;s-&#712;k&#257;-sh&#601;n\ noun
— ob·fus·ca·to·ry \äb-&#712;f&#601;s-k&#601;-&#716;to&#775;r-&#275;, &#601;b-\ adjective
See obfuscate defined for English-language learners »
Examples of OBFUSCATE
Politicians keep obfuscating the issues.
Their explanations only serve to obfuscate and confuse

 

[jillian]

I just wanted to take this opportunity to give the Anti-Capitalism crowd a chance to elaborate on their Anti-Capitalism stance. I would also like to give them a chance to explain in an articulate fashion what they would replace Capitalism with. Because in my opinion it's just not enough to 'occupy' and screech slogans. And i'm really not trying to be a smart ass here either. I am very interested in hearing their ideas. Shouting angry slogans at each other wont get us anywhere. So lets hear those ideas on what you want to replace Capitalism with. Thanks.

most people are not anti-capitalism. most people are anti- the randian version of capitalism which thinks corporations shouldn't be regulated.

but most normal people realize that's absurd.

 

[francoHFW]

Sorry about facts, brainwashed dittoheads...

How will the $787 billion stimulus package affect you?
Updated 2/17/2009 12:13 AM | Comments 2,635 | Recommend 195 E-mail | Print | Reprints & Permissions |


Enlarge By Jason Reed, Reuters

President Obama speaks on the economy during a town hall meeting in Fort Myers, Fla., on Feb. 10.



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By Sue Kirchhoff, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON &#8212; The $787 billion stimulus bill passed by Congress will not quickly solve the historic problems besetting the economy, but it could reduce the damage, while providing relief for the unemployed and the uninsured.
Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS Global Insight, predicts the biggest effects will occur in 2010 from the bill's spending for aid to state and local governments and on infrastructure such as roads, bridges, transit and other areas.

Moody's Economy.com chief economist Mark Zandi says the bill could help end the economic slide. He warns, however, that the stimulus spending will likely be too small, given the size of the economic decline, and suggests Congress may have to revisit the issue.


COLUMN: Home and car buyers get tax breaks in stimulus package
PLAN BREAKDOWN: What those billions would be spent on
OTHER COUNTRIES: Few are trying to stimulate their economies

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office says the bill could increase employment in a range of 800,000 to 2.3 million jobs by the fourth quarter of 2009 and 1.2 million to 3.6 million by the fourth quarter of 2010.

HOUSING/CARS: Buyers could get a modest break

If you're in the market for a new car or your first house, the compromise stimulus bill offers modest tax breaks for both kinds of purchases.

First-time home buyers would receive an $8,000 tax credit, and they wouldn't have to repay the government later as is required for the current $7,500 credit. An earlier Senate proposal would have provided all home buyers with a $15,000 credit.

"The home buyer tax credit is a plus for the housing market, but only a small plus," says Mark Zandi of Moody's Economy.com. "The credit &#8230; covers only a part of the down payment needed to make a purchase. The housing market will take any help it can get, but it needs more."

Other economists point out that the tax credit will still provide a mild jolt to the market by encouraging home purchases, which in turn should help curb the rapid rate of home price declines.

"While scaled back somewhat, it is still a good idea," says Brian Bethune at IHS Global Insight. "It should induce more home sales in 2009, and this will be an important support for the housing market and the housing industry. It should also buffer the rate of decline of home prices."

The bill also would allow new car buyers to deduct the purchase's sales tax from taxable income.

"We're happy to see the sales tax help, but credit is really the big issue," Chrysler President Jim Press said Thursday in Chicago.

"Ever-increasing credit score requirements by lenders," and slipping consumer credit ratings take many potential buyers out of the pool, Press said.

"A positive development, but we don't think it would have an immediate impact on the market," said Chris Hosford, vice president at Hyundai's U.S. operations.

The average new car purchase price the first 11 months of last year was $28,280, and the average used car trade-in value was $15,203, according to data from the National Automobile Dealers Association. Paul Taylor, NADA chief economist, says states typically tax the difference &#8212; $13,077 in this case.

A 5% rate, as in Massachusetts, would be $654, Taylor says, meaning the deduction would reduce taxable income that much.

By Stephanie Armour, Sharon Silke Carty and Chris Woodyard

TAXES: A $400 to $800 credit for many taxpayers

A key element of the stimulus bill would provide most Americans with a tax credit of $400, or $800 for married couples. The tax credit would phase out for single taxpayers with adjusted gross incomes of $75,000 to $90,000 and married couples with AGI of $150,000 to $190,000.

The tax credit would increase the average taxpayer's paycheck by about $8 a week, prompting some to question whether it will do much to stimulate consumer spending. But for a single worker, the credit is the equivalent of a $500 salary increase, after taxes, says Clint Stretch, managing principal for tax policy at Deloitte Tax. "In this economy, if you walked into your boss' office and demanded a $500 raise, you'd probably get laughed at," he says.

Retirees who receive Social Security benefits and individuals on disability would receive a $250 tax credit, says Tom Ochsenschlager, vice president of taxation for the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. Because these individuals typically don't have withholding, they'll likely receive a check, he says.

Other tax provisions in the stimulus package:

&#8226;An expanded earned income tax credit and child tax credit for low-income families.

&#8226;A higher education tax credit. Parents of college students would be eligible to claim a tax credit of up to $2,500. The credit is more generous than the existing Hope Scholarship Tax Credit, which maxes out at $1,800 and is available only for the first two years of college, says Amy McAnarney, executive director of H&R Block's Tax Institute. The tax credit, which would be available in 2009 and 2010, phases out for single taxpayers with AGI of $80,000 to $90,000 and married taxpayers with AGI of $160,000 to $180,000.

&#8226;A stopgap measure designed to prevent the alternative minimum tax from hitting more than 24 million households in 2009. The AMT was designed to prevent extremely wealthy taxpayers from using loopholes and deductions to avoid taxes. But because it was never indexed to inflation, it has expanded to encompass more upper-middle and some middle-class taxpayers. About 4 million owed the AMT last year.

By Sandra Block

ENERGY: Weatherizing homes will save money

The agreed-upon stimulus plan provides about $50 billion aimed at ushering in a clean-energy future and includes money or tax credits for Americans to weatherize their homes and buy hybrid cars.

It also commits dollars to upgrading the electricity grid and underwriting renewable energy projects.

"This is going to be an extraordinary boost to our challenge of preparing for global warming legislation and re-energizing the American economy," says Tom "Smitty" Smith, director of Public Citizen's Texas office.

While many analysts cheered provisions to weatherize homes as both an instant way to create jobs and put money in consumers' pockets, some say other initiatives are insufficient and won't deliver a quick economic boost.

The bill sets aside $5 billion to weatherize more than 1 million modest-income homes, saving families an average $350 a year. It devotes $6.3 billion to improve federally backed and public housing projects with new insulation, windows and furnaces. Higher-income households can make similar improvements and get expanded tax credits.

For every dollar spent, such programs produce about $3 in electricity savings, Smith says.

Spending $11 billion to upgrade the nationwide transmission grid to get renewable energy from rural areas to cities and digitize the electric grid to prevent outages is more controversial.

"It's just too little," says Joel Kurtzman, senior fellow at the Milken Institute, an economic think tank. He says it will cost about $100 billion.

Kenneth Medlock, energy fellow at Rice University's Baker Institute, says grid improvements will take years and won't spawn jobs immediately.

Providing a tax credit of up to $7,500 for families that buy plug-in hybrids to spur a new generation of cars "will help the environment and help Detroit," Kurtzman says.

But automakers won't have plug-in hybrids and battery-power electrics in showrooms until next year at the earliest.

"To roll that into a stimulus is almost misleading," Medlock says.

By Paul Davidson

THE SAFETY NET: Jobless get a little extra help

Many of those who are unemployed will get a boost from the stimulus bill, including a $25 increase in weekly benefit checks through 2009 that should help not only those who are out of work but the broad economy as that money gets spent.

Currently, the nationwide average weekly check to those receiving unemployment benefits is $295.05, ranging from $179.08 in Mississippi to $408.28 in Hawaii, according to the National Employment Law Project.

Increasing payments is a good way to stimulate the economy, because, "You can get money into the hands of people right away," says Michael Hicks, director of the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University. And people who are unemployed are likely to spend it.

More than 4.8 million people were collecting unemployment benefits at the end of January, up 78% from a year earlier and the highest since records began in 1967, the Labor Department said Thursday.

The bill includes other measures to help those who have lost their jobs. They:

&#8226;Lengthen the period in which people can be eligible for extended unemployment benefits. The program, which provides up to 33 weeks of extra jobless benefits after workers exhaust the regular 26 weeks received in most states, was passed last year and was set to expire at the end of March. Under the stimulus bill, the extended benefits would be available through the end of 2009. The NELP estimates this will help about 3 million people.

&#8226;Provide money to states that agree to make benefits available to more workers. That would help at least 500,000 people, including some low-wage and part-time workers, who wouldn't otherwise receive unemployment benefits, the NELP says.

&#8226;Suspend the taxation of unemployment benefits up to $2,400.

The measure also helps the unemployed and others by increasing the maximum monthly food-stamp benefit by 13%, which lawmakers estimate will help 31 million Americans, half of them children. And the bill provides a subsidy to cover 65% of a worker's COBRA health insurance premiums for up to nine months. COBRA lets workers continue their former employer's coverage for at least 18 months.

By Barbara Hagenbaugh

BROADBAND: Help for rural areas

The stimulus bill includes $7 billion for broadband deployment in rural markets across the USA.

That high-speed Internet access is counted as "infrastructure" is illuminating in itself, says Gene Kimmelman of Consumers Union.

Under the Bush administration, broadband service was treated as a luxury, he says. The Obama-backed stimulus package, in contrast, "treats Internet communications as an essential service, just like our highways," Kimmelman says.

With that baseline established, Kimmelman says, he expects major public policy shifts to follow, with the goal of making broadband available and affordable to all Americans. Though final language is still being worked out, the $7 billion plan offers "grants," or funding, to companies willing to deploy broadband &#8212; wireless or wired &#8212; in "underserved" or "unserved" markets.

But there are regulatory strings attached, notes Paul Glenchur of Stanford Group in Washington, D.C.

Companies must offer broadband services in a "non-discriminatory" fashion. That's code for "open access," a politically charged notion that says carriers must treat all Internet services the same.

Likewise, trying to define "underserved" or "unserved" markets could prove challenging, he says.

Why: Satellite-based Internet services already are available in most rural markets. Phone and cable TV companies have also spent billions deploying broadband in hundreds of markets, including rural areas.

The government's plan to essentially subsidize competition in these areas through a grant program "raises a basic question of fairness," Glenchur says.

Kimmelman disagrees. Satellite-based broadband costs around $90 a month, he says, putting it out of reach of many consumers.

By Leslie Cauley

 

[theliq]

Hi Oldstyle,I just don't understand what some Americans problem is with raising the minimum wage to $20 bucks an hour,its such a pathetic amount a lot of Americans earn anyway.
In Australia adults earn at least $26 per hour and thats for starters......the average full time workers wage on 40hours per week is $1682 at present compared to your $20 which equates to $800!!!!!!!!well at the moment it must be less than that say $600 ??????

No wonder folk in the US racked up so much on CREDIT,as this is not a liveable wage,moreover for some businesses who employ illegals in America pay them EVEN less.

There is something wrong,when the lowest paid live on wages that keeps them on or below the poverty line....America could learn much from Australia,and Americans would be better off.For you to complain about the minimum wage being raised to $20!!!!!!from???? shows what a dreadful mentality and situation you and some Americans are in.

I note with much pride,that we live on a fair income,but everyone has FREE health care,schooling and fair unemployment and disability payments,plus so much more.

It takes a certain type of community and committment to acheive such an outcome for all Australians,unlike America where many folk live in dire curcumstances,Yes you could and should look at our model where it is fair for all.

But then as a young country we have learn't well from others mistakes and innovated to suit our situation.

We are not a country of whingers and blame gamers......We actually get off the fence and make change when needed but FAIRLY and FOR ALL.....INCLUDING KEEPING THE BANKING AND FINANCIAL SECTOR under very heavy MANNERS(strict laws)


theliq

I just wanted to take this opportunity to give the Anti-Capitalism crowd a chance to elaborate on their Anti-Capitalism stance. I would also like to give them a chance to explain in an articulate fashion what they would replace Capitalism with? Because in my opinion it's just not enough to 'occupy' and screech slogans. And i'm really not trying to be a smart ass here. I am very interested in hearing their ideas. Shouting angry slogans at each other wont get us anywhere. So lets hear those ideas on what you want to replace Capitalism with. Thanks.

I don't think the Occupy Wall Street activists want to replace Capitalism, Paulitician...mostly because they expect capitalists to provide the support for their pie in the sky visions of a $20 an hour minimum wage, free college tuition, a guaranteed "living wage" even if you don't work, and the pardoning of all debts. Oh, no...the OWS folk think Capitalism is great as long as any profits can be taken away from business owners to support "the people".

You're not going to get progressives to take the bait and tell you their alternative to Capitalism because their alternative has already been tried in Europe and it's been a colossal failure. No, they've re-learned their lesson from 2008...keep your vision purposely vague, demagogue the opposition and hope the main stream media spends so much time reporting on the protests that they don't get around to asking questions about the solutions that the activists haven't proposed.

 

[theliq]

WILLOW YOU ARE TALKING SHIT AS USUAL......you are making stupid statements on a subject you cannot and could never GRASP..........YOUR STUPIDITY IS ONLY BETTERED BY THE SIZE OF YOUR MOUTH.

And you are a dick as you put it, albeit a very TINY ONE.....remember I always KICK ASS because I CAN.theliq

it was a trillion and it didn't create a single job and I'm not a dick. don't you just hate being a fucking loser all the time?

It saved or created millions of jobs, 40% of it was tax cuts, many infrastructue projects were completed. The $278k per job lie takes none of that into account. You are now a brainwashed moron. Change the GD channel.

pure lies and balderdash.

 

[francoHFW]

Min wage in Australia is $15, Nz 13...which is amazing enough.

 

[Oldstyle]

Cowardly response.

Wages have been stagnant for a decade. LONG before Obama took office. Blaming him for some magical agenda you think he has does nothing to address the real situation.

How is my pointing out reality "cowardly"?

Yes, wages have been stagnant for several decades but I don't blame Obama for the loss of blue collar jobs during the 90's and the last ten years. It's reality that we have been losing manufacturing jobs overseas for decades now. What I do blame Obama for is trying to convince naive people like yourself that the problem is corporate "greed" which can be corrected by taxing corporations at a higher rate. I'm sorry but that will not bring blue collar jobs back to the US. It will actually further hasten their departure. We need to do everything we can to make ourselves as competitive as we can with countries like India, Brazil, China and Korea at attracting and keeping businesses. Having the EPA enforce costly new regulations on energy isn't helping our cause. Neither is having the Justice Department sue companies like Boeing for building factories in right to work States or go after companies like Gibson Guitars over laws that protect the rights of Indian workers over American workers.

It was cowardly because you did not talk about reality. Claiming that Obama is killing employment and that when the unemployment rate goes down wages will go up, completely, totally, and utterly ignores what has been happening the past decade. You know, back when we had 5% unemployment and wages were STILL stagnant. I'm glad to see you at least acknowledge it happened, but again, claiming Obama is "pushing an agenda that kills employment", without mentioning a single policy of Obama's is just plain cowardly.

Additionally, you ignored my point about making money at the expense of the workers. Is it because here I am, a liberal, saying I am in FAVOUR of companies making tons of money? That just doesn't sit with your preconceived view?

No company makes record profits while having no workers. We must take care of the working class if we want this country to be successful again. Plain and simple.

Do you want me to list the Obama agenda that has killed employment over the past two and a half years? I'd be more than happy to do so.

First and foremost...ObamaCare. That legislative "Frankenstein's monster" brought any prospective hiring to a screeching halt as businesses tried to determine how it would effect their bottom line.

Then there was the drilling embargo following the Deepwater Horizon spill...that cost tens of thousands of jobs down here in the Gulf...right when the area was still trying to recover from Katrina.

The you had Obama's proposal for Cap & Trade that would have skyrocketed the energy costs of businesses across the country if it had ever been passed and was one more dampening agent on the recovery.

Let's not forget his push for Card Check...something that would have saddled businesses with union negotiations and strikes...that had the private sector taking a big step backwards.

Then you've got the EPA ready to impose new regulations on CO2 emissions...the threat of that absolutely paralyzed industry until the Democrats backed off on that just recently.

Of course we can't forget Obama's Justice Department that sued Boeing for building a plant in South Carolina simply because THAT was a right to work State or confiscated the wood Gibson guitars uses to make their instruments because workers in "India" hadn't been used to finish that wood.

Now would you care to list the things on Obama's agenda that HAVE created long term jobs? And please don't embarrass yourself by listing his "green jobs" program because right now each one of those few and far between jobs is costing an obscene amount of taxpayer money to create. And please don't talk about "jobs saved" because THAT is the biggest con job since the invention of Three Card Monte.

 

[Money]

More than anything, I think some folks are confused between capitalism and Wall Street.

My vision of capitalism entails more commerce and less non sequitur capitalization than what Wall Street has in mind.

 

[Oldstyle]

Hi Oldstyle,I just don't understand what some Americans problem is with raising the minimum wage to $20 bucks an hour,its such a pathetic amount a lot of Americans earn anyway.
In Australia adults earn at least $26 per hour and thats for starters......the average full time workers wage on 40hours per week is $1682 at present compared to your $20 which equates to $800!!!!!!!!well at the moment it must be less than that say $600 ??????

No wonder folk in the US racked up so much on CREDIT,as this is not a liveable wage,moreover for some businesses who employ illegals in America pay them EVEN less.

There is something wrong,when the lowest paid live on wages that keeps them on or below the poverty line....America could learn much from Australia,and Americans would be better off.For you to complain about the minimum wage being raised to $20!!!!!!from???? shows what a dreadful mentality and situation you and some Americans are in.

I note with much pride,that we live on a fair income,but everyone has FREE health care,schooling and fair unemployment and disability payments,plus so much more.

It takes a certain type of community and committment to acheive such an outcome for all Australians,unlike America where many folk live in dire curcumstances,Yes you could and should look at our model where it is fair for all.

But then as a young country we have learn't well from others mistakes and innovated to suit our situation.

We are not a country of whingers and blame gamers......We actually get off the fence and make change when needed but FAIRLY and FOR ALL.....INCLUDING KEEPING THE BANKING AND FINANCIAL SECTOR under very heavy MANNERS(strict laws)


theliq

I just wanted to take this opportunity to give the Anti-Capitalism crowd a chance to elaborate on their Anti-Capitalism stance. I would also like to give them a chance to explain in an articulate fashion what they would replace Capitalism with? Because in my opinion it's just not enough to 'occupy' and screech slogans. And i'm really not trying to be a smart ass here. I am very interested in hearing their ideas. Shouting angry slogans at each other wont get us anywhere. So lets hear those ideas on what you want to replace Capitalism with. Thanks.

I don't think the Occupy Wall Street activists want to replace Capitalism, Paulitician...mostly because they expect capitalists to provide the support for their pie in the sky visions of a $20 an hour minimum wage, free college tuition, a guaranteed "living wage" even if you don't work, and the pardoning of all debts. Oh, no...the OWS folk think Capitalism is great as long as any profits can be taken away from business owners to support "the people".

You're not going to get progressives to take the bait and tell you their alternative to Capitalism because their alternative has already been tried in Europe and it's been a colossal failure. No, they've re-learned their lesson from 2008...keep your vision purposely vague, demagogue the opposition and hope the main stream media spends so much time reporting on the protests that they don't get around to asking questions about the solutions that the activists haven't proposed.

What you have to understand is that minimum wage jobs in the US are typically entry level positions where skills have to be taught before job holder graduate to higher paying positions. If we "were" to raise minimum wage to $20 an hour small businesses here would have to raise the prices of their goods and services dramatically to cover the increased costs. An ice cream cone that might cost $3.00 now would probably cost $5.00 if the employer that was paying his workers $8.00 an hour had to raise that pay to even $15.00 an hour.

As for Australia vs. the US? From talking to friends of mine that are from Australia they tell me that yes...you do make more in wages in Australia but that the things you buy are much more expensive there then here. So does it really matter if you make more per hour if everything you buy costs more? I made a lot more working as a restaurant manager in Aspen than I did working in North Carolina but my cost of living was so much higher in Colorado that at the end of the day I put more in the bank making less.

 

[Money]

Just to butt in this conversation, I would go as far as advocating the removal of the minimum wage, altogether. I think it is a horrible way to improve the effective demand for labor&#8230; It actually hurts the REAL demand for labor.

 

[IndependntLogic]

I just wanted to take this opportunity to give the Anti-Capitalism crowd a chance to elaborate on their Anti-Capitalism stance. I would also like to give them a chance to explain in an articulate fashion what they would replace Capitalism with. Because in my opinion it's just not enough to 'occupy' and screech slogans. And i'm really not trying to be a smart ass here either. I am very interested in hearing their ideas. Shouting angry slogans at each other wont get us anywhere. So lets hear those ideas on what you want to replace Capitalism with. Thanks.

I haven't seen anyone here who seems "anti-capitalism". Have you?

 

[MarcATL]

I just wanted to take this opportunity to give the Anti-Capitalism crowd a chance to elaborate on their Anti-Capitalism stance. I would also like to give them a chance to explain in an articulate fashion what they would replace Capitalism with. Because in my opinion it's just not enough to 'occupy' and screech slogans. And i'm really not trying to be a smart ass here either. I am very interested in hearing their ideas. Shouting angry slogans at each other wont get us anywhere. So lets hear those ideas on what you want to replace Capitalism with. Thanks.

We despise Capitalism Gone Wild.

Did you come in on the special bus? What part of this do you not understand?

 

[theliq]

THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE..Oldstyle,in someways you maybe right but for example our average food bill is circa $300 to your $250,we have a very low consumption of pre package TV dinners for example moreover we have been encouraged to eat 2 fruit and 3 veg each day..which is working well,most of our produce is grown locally,what Australians do have too much of,like America is the ubiquitous McDonalds and KFC etc.......but there is talk of a FAT TAX much like the Danish model,early next year all cigarettes will be SOLD in olive green plain packaging in an attempt to cut down on those cancersticks.

We really have skirted the recession and although housing has dipped a little,values are on the rise again,I think our standard of living is one of the highest in the world.So much so that recently 5 of our cities were voted in the top 11(1,4,7,8,11) of the most desireable cities in the world to live in. This is based on many criteria,which must say something about us and the way we live.....just saying

Hi Oldstyle,I just don't understand what some Americans problem is with raising the minimum wage to $20 bucks an hour,its such a pathetic amount a lot of Americans earn anyway.
In Australia adults earn at least $26 per hour and thats for starters......the average full time workers wage on 40hours per week is $1682 at present compared to your $20 which equates to $800!!!!!!!!well at the moment it must be less than that say $600 ??????

No wonder folk in the US racked up so much on CREDIT,as this is not a liveable wage,moreover for some businesses who employ illegals in America pay them EVEN less.

There is something wrong,when the lowest paid live on wages that keeps them on or below the poverty line....America could learn much from Australia,and Americans would be better off.For you to complain about the minimum wage being raised to $20!!!!!!from???? shows what a dreadful mentality and situation you and some Americans are in.

I note with much pride,that we live on a fair income,but everyone has FREE health care,schooling and fair unemployment and disability payments,plus so much more.

It takes a certain type of community and committment to acheive such an outcome for all Australians,unlike America where many folk live in dire curcumstances,Yes you could and should look at our model where it is fair for all.

But then as a young country we have learn't well from others mistakes and innovated to suit our situation.

We are not a country of whingers and blame gamers......We actually get off the fence and make change when needed but FAIRLY and FOR ALL.....INCLUDING KEEPING THE BANKING AND FINANCIAL SECTOR under very heavy MANNERS(strict laws)


theliq

I don't think the Occupy Wall Street activists want to replace Capitalism, Paulitician...mostly because they expect capitalists to provide the support for their pie in the sky visions of a $20 an hour minimum wage, free college tuition, a guaranteed "living wage" even if you don't work, and the pardoning of all debts. Oh, no...the OWS folk think Capitalism is great as long as any profits can be taken away from business owners to support "the people".

You're not going to get progressives to take the bait and tell you their alternative to Capitalism because their alternative has already been tried in Europe and it's been a colossal failure. No, they've re-learned their lesson from 2008...keep your vision purposely vague, demagogue the opposition and hope the main stream media spends so much time reporting on the protests that they don't get around to asking questions about the solutions that the activists haven't proposed.

What you have to understand is that minimum wage jobs in the US are typically entry level positions where skills have to be taught before job holder graduate to higher paying positions. If we "were" to raise minimum wage to $20 an hour small businesses here would have to raise the prices of their goods and services dramatically to cover the increased costs. An ice cream cone that might cost $3.00 now would probably cost $5.00 if the employer that was paying his workers $8.00 an hour had to raise that pay to even $15.00 an hour.

As for Australia vs. the US? From talking to friends of mine that are from Australia they tell me that yes...you do make more in wages in Australia but that the things you buy are much more expensive there then here. So does it really matter if you make more per hour if everything you buy costs more? I made a lot more working as a restaurant manager in Aspen than I did working in North Carolina but my cost of living was so much higher in Colorado that at the end of the day I put more in the bank making less.

 

[Mr.Nick]

This is right up there with "are you still beating your wife." Nobody despised capitalism until they hoovered up all the money, and nobody will despise it again once we've returned financial health to the USA.

And it was always the democrats that were responsible with sticking their dick in the market...

Yeah bad economies happen when you STEAL from job providers and regulate them to death just so you can subsidize your progressive social ideas...

Then you piece of shit progressives have the audacity to call it Keynesian economics? that is code word for government fucking with economy....

It's funny how the US has only had economic problems since government started fucking with the economy....

The truth remains that the corporation owners/CFO's have ZERO to gain from taking anything from the working man because the working man is their customer and the working man sets the rate of the dollar....

The dollar is useless if it's not being spent....

 

[Avatar4321]

What alternative is there to the natural law of economics? You think we can change natural law? Any of us?

What we could do is voluntarily give of our time, talents, and money. But thats our own choice.

 

[theliq]

Honestly Nick,if you believe that re all the Demos fault,then you'll believe anything,come on you know this is all REPUBTALK you say,because you like so many live in the BULLSHIT WORLD of republican GREED IS GOOD MENTALITY.

Its BOLLOCKS AND YOU KNOW IT.

This is right up there with "are you still beating your wife." Nobody despised capitalism until they hoovered up all the money, and nobody will despise it again once we've returned financial health to the USA.

And it was always the democrats that were responsible with sticking their dick in the market...

Yeah bad economies happen when you STEAL from job providers and regulate them to death just so you can subsidize your progressive social ideas...

Then you piece of shit progressives have the audacity to call it Keynesian economics? that is code word for government fucking with economy....

It's funny how the US has only had economic problems since government started fucking with the economy....

The truth remains that the corporation owners/CFO's have ZERO to gain from taking anything from the working man because the working man is their customer and the working man sets the rate of the dollar....

The dollar is useless if it's not being spent....

 

[ScienceRocks]

Well, they want "fairness". Meaning total equality.

And since human talent and ability is a diverse scale, some will be better than others at different things in life.

So....to create "fairness", some goods, services, earnings, property, etc, will have to be TAKEN from some, and given to others.

Now, we know when it comes to money, status, etc, volunteerism doesn't usually work. So how do we take it from the top to make fairness?

Well, men with guns. Thats how historical left wing nations have done it. And OWS wants that here.

This is putting it nicely. Some of the very "left" of the left wing wishes for NO borders with a globalist system of one human race; yes I said it, one race under one government singing around the camp fire. I hear these bastards calling it the human race and all this bs about no borders(doctors without borders and the internationalist that are building the eu, african union, south American union, and more are behind this. They are quite powerful as you can see with our borders). Some like Van Jones wish to cut humanity down to under billion...What do you think this global warming shit is all about I'm serious they wish to force all of the "white" wealth to be spread to all the peoples of humanity even through they can't produce at all. Which once it runs out we're all poorer then just and brown to top it off under a one world dictatorship. A future, I will fight like a mother fucker against.