So you are squad leader being chased by the bad guys... you and your group jump in your EV jeep and guess what?

as I said,, that would be stupid,, now a small nuclear reactor might just work,,

the least you can do is respond to my point on where I think they could be used and why??
I do not think you can make a nuclear reactor that small and still get efficient power from it. It is not like a nuclear reactor is similar to a battery, they need to run turbines with steam. How are you going to do that in anything the size of a tank? This has some major problems with disabled and destroyed equipment as well.
 
Of course you have examples where it's being used commercially. RIGHT?

.

Thermocouples have been powering NASA craft for decades. Voyager One and Two are powered by an RTG.


That uses the heat from radioactive materials to create the electricity to power the craft we launched in the 1970’s to set out amongst the stars. Or did you think we sent a proper Nuclear Power Reactor into space?

Thermocouples are most often used to measure temperature. Like in your oven. A traditional thermometer would melt at the temperatures it is used in. So a thermocouple is used for the temperature varied electrical production to determine the temperature.

People use thermocouple powered fans on wood stoves in Alaska and Canada to help love the warm air around. You put the fan on the wood stove and the heat makes the fan start moving and blowing air.

That is what I love about you guys who scream that this and that doesn’t work. Solar is what is powering the ISS today. It powered Hubble for decades so far. It is powering the satellites that carry your porn from China.

It has powered my watch for seven years.

But Solar doesn’t work.

You’ve never heard of a thermocouple so they don’t work. Sure Voyager is outside the Solar System right now and still working thanks to the RTG. But hey, there is no application for such nonsense.
 
Thermocouples have been powering NASA craft for decades. Voyager One and Two are powered by an RTG.


That uses the heat from radioactive materials to create the electricity to power the craft we launched in the 1970’s to set out amongst the stars. Or did you think we sent a proper Nuclear Power Reactor into space?

Thermocouples are most often used to measure temperature. Like in your oven. A traditional thermometer would melt at the temperatures it is used in. So a thermocouple is used for the temperature varied electrical production to determine the temperature.

People use thermocouple powered fans on wood stoves in Alaska and Canada to help love the warm air around. You put the fan on the wood stove and the heat makes the fan start moving and blowing air.

That is what I love about you guys who scream that this and that doesn’t work. Solar is what is powering the ISS today. It powered Hubble for decades so far. It is powering the satellites that carry your porn from China.

It has powered my watch for seven years.

But Solar doesn’t work.

You’ve never heard of a thermocouple so they don’t work. Sure Voyager is outside the Solar System right now and still working thanks to the RTG. But hey, there is no application for such nonsense.
Yes but the requirements of a space bourn vehicle and a tank are very different.

Voyager is run off of 230 watts. That will not run my microwave let alone a 120,000lb tank. Can you effectively scale that to the power requirements of a tank, keep it economical, avoid the hazards when it is disabled or destroyed and still fit it in the very small form factor of a land vehicle?

As far as I know, you cant. I am unsure you can make electric work either considering the power requirements and weight a battery would add to meet them. My suspicion is that the time is as far off as it is because nuclear is not an option and EV needs a new battery technology which they may very well be researching right this minute in the military. We know the civilian side is desperately looking for a battery solution as well.

EV's are a nice idea but currently nothing more than a niche market because the limitations on battery capacity, weight and lifespan. When that changes there will not be a trickle from ICE to EV, it will be a flood. ICE engines will end very fast the moment tech makes EV's an overall better economical option.
 
Thermocouples have been powering NASA craft for decades. Voyager One and Two are powered by an RTG.


That uses the heat from radioactive materials to create the electricity to power the craft we launched in the 1970’s to set out amongst the stars. Or did you think we sent a proper Nuclear Power Reactor into space?

Thermocouples are most often used to measure temperature. Like in your oven. A traditional thermometer would melt at the temperatures it is used in. So a thermocouple is used for the temperature varied electrical production to determine the temperature.

People use thermocouple powered fans on wood stoves in Alaska and Canada to help love the warm air around. You put the fan on the wood stove and the heat makes the fan start moving and blowing air.

That is what I love about you guys who scream that this and that doesn’t work. Solar is what is powering the ISS today. It powered Hubble for decades so far. It is powering the satellites that carry your porn from China.

It has powered my watch for seven years.

But Solar doesn’t work.

You’ve never heard of a thermocouple so they don’t work. Sure Voyager is outside the Solar System right now and still working thanks to the RTG. But hey, there is no application for such nonsense.


You're mixing energy sources in your little rant. One using heat the other using light, show me an example of a thermocouple set up that can power an auto production line. Solar could do it if you have several hundred acres of panels and another hundred acres of batteries.

.
 
Yes but the requirements of a space bourn vehicle and a tank are very different.

Voyager is run off of 230 watts. That will not run my microwave let alone a 120,000lb tank. Can you effectively scale that to the power requirements of a tank, keep it economical, avoid the hazards when it is disabled or destroyed and still fit it in the very small form factor of a land vehicle?

As far as I know, you cant. I am unsure you can make electric work either considering the power requirements and weight a battery would add to meet them. My suspicion is that the time is as far off as it is because nuclear is not an option and EV needs a new battery technology which they may very well be researching right this minute in the military. We know the civilian side is desperately looking for a battery solution as well.

EV's are a nice idea but currently nothing more than a niche market because the limitations on battery capacity, weight and lifespan. When that changes there will not be a trickle from ICE to EV, it will be a flood. ICE engines will end very fast the moment tech makes EV's an overall better economical option.

The first tanks had a speed of advance of about four miles an hour. That is walking speed. You could literally walk away and outrun the First tanks. Their armor was barely enough to stop pistol bullets. Many medium machine guns could penetrate the armor.

I am sure some naysayer stood there and said Tanks would never replace horse Calvary. Horses were faster. You could forage in the countryside. And Horses didn’t break down as often as Tanks.

Airplanes in warfare were dismissed or many of the same reasons. And I mean moments before the first world war started.

As Ukraine has shown. Tanks are not the weapon they once were. They are too vulnerable to cheap man portable missiles. So the era of the Tank is over. Even the advocates admit they are approaching the end of their usefulness.

As Battleships were shoved aside by aircraft carriers, tanks are being shoved aside by fast armored personnel carriers. Or Infantry fighting vehicles. A man with a radio can call in an artillery barrage that wipes out a company of tanks. A platoon with anti-tank missiles makes the tanks funeral pyres cheaply.

So arguing that energy systems we are talking about today won’t power tanks in a generation is based upon the belief that everything is going to remain the same.

My point on all of it is that we have the foundation. The same foundation the First tanks presented. A window into the future. A future where Tanks and trucks would replace horses for mobility. A future where airplanes would replace Battleships as the weapon to win wars.

Could the People of the Second World War imagine a future where Drones would determine the battlefield? Where submarines would use Nuclear Power to stay underwater for weeks or months without any problems?

Progress is like that. The B-17 Bomber was a technological marvel. Able to carry up to 17,500 pounds of bombs. It was amazing. For the era. In the 1950’s the Navy started to work on the A-6 Intruder. It was able to carry 18,000 pounds of bombs. A generation after the first flight of the worlds first heavy bomber, and a Carrier Based Medium Attack Plane could carry more and better ordinance.

A generation ago the standard vehicle was the HMMPWV. Or Hummer. Who would have thought it would be shown as obsolete in such a horrific manner? Even slapping bolt on armor didn’t work.

Every year battery technology is improving. Seven years ago I built a solar powered battery back up to use in case of emergencies. Today everything in it is already obsolete and as I look to replace components I find they are radically different. The glass battery is going to be replaced by a LiFe battery. Improved and safer than the traditional Lithium batteries we are all well aware of.

I built that system to run a thermoelectric cooler in case of power outage that lasted for more than a few hours. Like when a Hurricane comes through and turns power lines into spaghetti.

The system was tested and it worked. Granted all I ever used it for in the real world was picking up groceries on the way to work and letting the battery power the cooler all night to keep the cold stuff fresh. But it worked exactly as I intended.

It is difficult, dangerous, and expensive to transport fuel. It is a vulnerable situation which cost us a lot of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we armor the fuel trucks they are even heavier and can carry less fuel while burning even more.
 
Sure they will, how much you figure all that extra weight will reduce battery life in extreme heat or cold? 40-50+% And l-ion burns a lot hotter than diesel. Also tell the class how they're going to charge those puppies out in the middle of nowhere. I'd also like to see the test data on how they perform at the Army Artic Test Center, Ft Greeley Ak, at minus 40 degrees.

.
Good point about - 40°
Consumer Reports stated in 2021 that an unplugged EV’s range can decrease by about 20 percent when the temperature drops between 0°-10°F, and it takes longer to recharge than it would in warm weather.

According to AAA’s “Cold Weather Can Cut Electric Car Range by Over 40%”, EVs often lose 12% of their range in cold weather, but the loss leaps to 41% with the heater on full blast.

So to keep your EV running in below zero weather means driving in the cold weather with diminished heater operation. Oh well the old rule of thumb still applies, "You can always put more on when it is cold, but there is only so much you can take off in the heat!"
 
You're mixing energy sources in your little rant. One using heat the other using light, show me an example of a thermocouple set up that can power an auto production line. Solar could do it if you have several hundred acres of panels and another hundred acres of batteries.

.
Each solar panel generates 535.8 kWH/panel
An auto production plant with a daily output of 1,000 vehicles can easily use several hundred thousand megawatt-hours (MWh) of electricity per year—as much as a medium-sized town. Automobile plants make more with less
So "several hundred thousand megawatt-hours is equal to 200,000 megawatts equal to 200,000,000 kWh or it would takes at the above rate of electricity by a single solar panel of 538.8 kWh per panel or about 3,732,736 or with each panel average of 15 soft or 55,991,041 sq.ft or about 2 sq miles of land.
The largest car-making manufacturing plant in the world—70 million square feet large—resides in Wolsburg, Germany, pounding out 3,800 Volkswagen vehicles per day 7 of the World's Largest Manufacturing Plants
At 27,878,400 sq feet per sq mile this plant is over 2.5 square miles.
Hmmm so to make EVs using solar panels to generate the electricity would require land area equal to the world's largest auto production plant.
 
You say that. But fuel is always a problem. See the Russian Invasion of Ukraine.

First. Fuel is heavy. It weighs about six pounds per gallon. And Military Vehicles are not exactly fuel efficient. Now unless you have worked the numbers. Fuel seems easy. But it is a hamstring, and by that I mean vulnerability that both we and the enemies attack.

Fuel convoys were a favorite target during Iraq and Afghanistan. So you have to protect them. That means biting lots of fuel to try and get more fuel to the front.

When you do stockpile enough to support operations, then you have a big target for your enemy. Fuel and munitions depots are priorities for attack. Take out the enemies fuel and they can’t move. Take out their munitions and they can’t fight.

Fuel of course to be useful has to be combustible. And combustible things explode easily.

The trucks that carry the fuel burn fuel. The vehicles escorting and protecting the fuel burn fuel too. So it cost you a half a gallon or so to get a gallon to the troops who need it.

Modern Armies float on a sea of Diesel fuel. And moving that fuel is expensive and difficult. Logistics is what wins wars most of the time. Who has the supplies for the next attack of defense.

So you can see how attractive it is to remove something from that list. Something that is difficult to move, and vital.

Suddenly electricity seems a better plan. Especially with Solar being improved all the time. New battery systems are getting more efficient.

Before these things are fielded. They will be tested for a long time to make sure it works. And that is what scares you. If it works you might be stuck getting one. If everyone else is, even if they don’t make you, the removal of suddenly unprofitable gas stations would limit how you power your big V-8 wouldn’t it?
FFS war is always a problem,,
but you dont sit at home and whine like some little bitch about it, you step up and solve the problem and kick some commie ass,,
 
Voyager is run off of 230 watts. That will not run my microwave let alone a 120,000lb tank. Can you effectively scale that to the power requirements of a tank, keep it economical, avoid the hazards when it is disabled or destroyed and still fit it in the very small form factor of a land vehicle?

Voyager wasn't very big. Look up the dimensions of it sometime. It was much smaller than a tank.
 
You're mixing energy sources in your little rant. One using heat the other using light, show me an example of a thermocouple set up that can power an auto production line. Solar could do it if you have several hundred acres of panels and another hundred acres of batteries.

.

You went from powering a tank to powering an entire auto production line? Way to move the goalposts.
 
At 27,878,400 sq feet per sq mile this plant is over 2.5 square miles.
Hmmm so to make EVs using solar panels to generate the electricity would require land area equal to the world's largest auto production plant.

If the land is already being occupied by the buildings that build them like you said, then the solution is simple............mount the panels on the roof of the plant.
 
Good point about - 40°
Consumer Reports stated in 2021 that an unplugged EV’s range can decrease by about 20 percent when the temperature drops between 0°-10°F, and it takes longer to recharge than it would in warm weather.

According to AAA’s “Cold Weather Can Cut Electric Car Range by Over 40%”, EVs often lose 12% of their range in cold weather, but the loss leaps to 41% with the heater on full blast.

So to keep your EV running in below zero weather means driving in the cold weather with diminished heater operation. Oh well the old rule of thumb still applies, "You can always put more on when it is cold, but there is only so much you can take off in the heat!"

Why do you try to paint the most extreme scenarios as the norm? Cold weather is hard on ALL equipment, not just EVs. It's also very difficult on the troops deployed to the cold areas, which is why the military has specialized training for very cold weather.

Fighting wars in extreme cold is the exception, not the norm.
 
Why do you try to paint the most extreme scenarios as the norm? Cold weather is hard on ALL equipment, not just EVs. It's also very difficult on the troops deployed to the cold areas, which is why the military has specialized training for very cold weather.

Fighting wars in extreme cold is the exception, not the norm.
You are right. There are extremes. Vietnam/Afghanistan were not cold that's true.
The point though is EVs are the answer to global warming right? Global warming is the bane of human existence right? So why then if it is SO important can't people like Biden abide gradual change? Is there a mass extinction of the human race via global warming? Granted the oceans might rise...(which is funny because both major Democrats Obama/Gore have ocean front properties:

Al Gore’s New $9 Million Ocean-View Villa in CA​

The couple spent $8,875,000 on an ocean-view villa on 1.5 acres with a swimming pool,

And here is Obama's ocean front property...
And yet both of these hypocrites are pushing global warming. Why are they there?

So maybe that's why people like me are so critical of global warming evangelistas because they are so sure we have a problem. My problem is how they came to that conclusion when the Earth's Fossil records reveal that atmospheric CO2 levels around 600 million years ago were about 7,000 parts per million,
compared with 379 ppm in 2005 ?

ObamaOceanhome.png
 
Actually.............yeah.............ask a US Navy sailor sometime about the PMS (Periodic Maintenance Survey) program. We check EVERYTHING on the ship that is required for safe and efficient operation on a regular basis. Everything from deck drains and the hatches between spaces, all the way up to and including weapons systems.
The Last Thing Cleaned Was American Blood on the Deck

The most important thing is preventing attacks by an enemy. The USS Cole may have been ****-and-span and all squared away, but its criminal negligence in ignoring its primary duty was nothing short of first-degree murder of its own crew.

As with the gutless Marine C.O. at Tehran, primary duty overrides all deadly Rules of Engagement.

This treason from on high has been going on for a long time. In 1875 the Texas Rangers crossed the Rio Grande to confront Mexican cattle-rustlers. The Reconstruction race-traitor U.S. Army sat by the river and refused to help, even though the Rangers were outnumbered 15 to 1. One patriotic sergeant joined the avengers, for which he was later court-martialed and convicted of creating an international incident. The gloating Mexican government has put up a memorial to honor the bandits.
 
If the land is already being occupied by the buildings that build them like you said, then the solution is simple............mount the panels on the roof of the plant.
Well the electricity rate I was citing was for a auto plant that made 1,000 cars a day and the LARGEST auto plant as you would have read if you followed the links in the WORLD sits on 2.5 sq. miles.
The largest car-making manufacturing plant in the world—70 million square feet large—resides in Wolsburg, Germany, pounding out 3,800 Volkswagen vehicles per day 7 of the World's Largest Manufacturing Plants
But that's the problem.
To make 1,000 EVs a day an automaker needs 2.5 miles of solar panels. Most of the older auto plants are surrounded by neighborhoods. Newer auto plants would have to spend JUST the electricity to produce 1,000 cars per day is "several hundred thousand megawatt-hours is equal to 200,000 megawatts equal to 200,000,000 kWh or it would takes at the above rate of electricity by a single solar panel of 538.8 kWh per panel or about 3,732,736 or with each panel average of 15 sqft or 55,991,041 sq.ft or about 2 sq miles of land. Again you people provide NO FACTS... I do! And yet you question? Why don't you read closer or provide counter argument sources?

So again since YOU didn't read much less retain what I concluded:
"Hmmm so to make EVs using solar panels to generate the electricity would require land area equal to the world's largest auto production plant." AGAIN.. each auto plant that makes 1,000 cars would require 2.5 square miles of solar panels to provide the 200,000 megawatts.
Oh by the way there the average cost of land in the contiguous United States is about $12,000 per acre or at 640 acres/square mile that's $7,680,000 /sq mile or in this case almost $20 million to buy the land.
Now each solar panel cost about $200 or for 3,732,736 panels that's another $746,547,200 in addition to the $20 million for the land. So at just the land and panels cost of $754,227,200 if the auto plant makes 1,000 cars a day to recover the cost of solar panels would require 754,227 cars to be built in 2,066 years (1,000/day).
Again where is the economics in that?
 
FFS war is always a problem,,
but you dont sit at home and whine like some little bitch about it, you step up and solve the problem and kick some commie ass,,

Interesting. I joined the Army in 1988 when the enemy we trained to fight was the Soviet Union. I was a Combat Engineer who went to Jump School and spent four years at Fort Bragg in the 82nd Airborne Division.

When I tell you logistics is an issue. It is from personal experience. When I say that we target enemy logistics again that is experience from training in our doctrine. When I tell you that the enemy targets those same supply chains, it is not hyperbole.

We ended up using captured explosives in Iraq to destroy the equipment because we couldn’t get enough of our stuff through supply, and we had six months to stockpile material before the war started.

Personally I liked the PE-4A explosive. It was easier to mold than C-4. But it had an RE factor closer to Composition B. So it wouldn’t be as effective cutting steel.

We learned how vital supplies were. When I had to patch my Hummer tire with Mud because we didn’t have a spare tire we learned. When we had to disconnect the parking breaks because they seized in the dust we learned.

For Civilians it is easy. You hit the same Gas Station and fill up. Oh you may bitch about the cost. But it is easy and there is always gas available. For the Military you have to bring it with you. And then you learn how hard it is to bring it. It is heavy and it is combustible and it doesn’t last as long as we would wish.
 
Interesting. I joined the Army in 1988 when the enemy we trained to fight was the Soviet Union. I was a Combat Engineer who went to Jump School and spent four years at Fort Bragg in the 82nd Airborne Division.

When I tell you logistics is an issue. It is from personal experience. When I say that we target enemy logistics again that is experience from training in our doctrine. When I tell you that the enemy targets those same supply chains, it is not hyperbole.

We ended up using captured explosives in Iraq to destroy the equipment because we couldn’t get enough of our stuff through supply, and we had six months to stockpile material before the war started.

Personally I liked the PE-4A explosive. It was easier to mold than C-4. But it had an RE factor closer to Composition B. So it wouldn’t be as effective cutting steel.

We learned how vital supplies were. When I had to patch my Hummer tire with Mud because we didn’t have a spare tire we learned. When we had to disconnect the parking breaks because they seized in the dust we learned.

For Civilians it is easy. You hit the same Gas Station and fill up. Oh you may bitch about the cost. But it is easy and there is always gas available. For the Military you have to bring it with you. And then you learn how hard it is to bring it. It is heavy and it is combustible and it doesn’t last as long as we would wish.
logistics are always a problem,, doesnt mean you just say fuck it and do nothing,,
 
We're talking about 2050 here, not 2024. It's 27 years away. By that point electric vehicle technology will be far beyond today's limitations.
Oh there is no question BUT the dumb ass stupid economically ignorant BIDEN has told us!!!
"I want you to look into my eyes, I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels” September 06, 2019, 5:49 PM

and this dumb ass comment:
no more drilling...there is no more drilling...I haven’t formed any new drilling.”
How stupid! I'm not against the development of EVs, etc. but to make such dumb ass comments that this is the oil companies general attitude..."
U.S. Will Never Build Another Oil Refinery, Chevron CEO Says
My personal view is there will never be another new refinery built” on U.S. soil, said Wirth. “You’re looking at committing capital 10 years out, that will need decades to offer a return for shareholders, in a policy environment where governments around the world are saying, ‘We don’t want these products.’”

Furthermore... This idiot has NO idea the importance of fossil fuels in our day to day lives!
The very tires all EVs, Cars,Trucks, bicycles, motorcycles, use depend on 300 million barrels of oil a year to make 2 billion tires!
Or that the nearly 2.2 million miles of asphalt that requires 1.4 Billion barrels to make asphalt.
What will replace oil?
So EVs are great BUT you are NOT going to get oil out of our lives even in the next 30 years as Biden guarantees!
All that will happen is the cost of living will skyrocket!
Tires, asphalt, and these remaining items will ALL be so much more expensive because of Biden and these dumb as climatistas stupidity!
items-madefrom-oil.png
 
logistics are always a problem,, doesnt mean you just say fuck it and do nothing,,
You are right... you don't do nothing. But what you do do is cooperate. Don't agitate! Don't divide!
These following stupid dumb ass comments do nothing but cause people to find REASONS NOT to cooperate!
Here read again the stupidity of Biden!
Oh there is no question BUT the dumb ass stupid economically ignorant BIDEN has told us!!!
"I want you to look into my eyes, I guarantee We Are Going To Get Rid of Fossil Fuels” September 06, 2019, 5:49 PM
and this dumb ass comment:
no more drilling...there is no more drilling...I haven’t formed any new drilling.”
www.forbes.com

Biden Promises ‘No More Drilling’ Just Days After Demanding More Drilling

Just a day after not exactly apologizing to West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin for promising a San Diego audience to replace coal fired power plants with wind farms, President Joe Biden turned to promising a New York audience to shut down drilling for oil instead.
www.forbes.com
www.forbes.com
How stupid! I'm not against the development of EVs, etc. but to make such dumb ass comments that this is the oil companies general attitude..."
U.S. Will Never Build Another Oil Refinery, Chevron CEO Says
My personal view is there will never be another new refinery built” on U.S. soil, said Wirth. “You’re looking at committing capital 10 years out, that will need decades to offer a return for shareholders, in a policy environment where governments around the world are saying, ‘We don’t want these products.’”
www.theenergymix.com

U.S. Will Never Build Another Oil Refinery, Chevron CEO Says

The United States’ capacity to refine oil into fuel has shrunk significantly during the pandemic because of the closure of refineries. And it may never come back, says the CEO of the second-largest oil company in the U.S.
www.theenergymix.com

Furthermore... This idiot has NO idea the importance of fossil fuels in our day to day lives!
The very tires all EVs, Cars,Trucks, bicycles, motorcycles, use depend on 300 million barrels of oil a year to make 2 billion tires!
Or that the nearly 2.2 million miles of asphalt that requires 1.4 Billion barrels to make asphalt.
https://www.ranken-energy.com/.../products-made-from.../What will replace oil?
So EVs are great BUT you are NOT going to get oil out of our lives even in the next 30 years as Biden guarantees!
All that will happen is the cost of living will skyrocket!
Tires, asphalt, and these remaining items will ALL be so much more expensive because of Biden and these dumb as climatistas stupidity!
 

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