so who likes us now....

[Gunny]

No one's liked us since the fall of the Soviet Union and we are no longer needed to assure their defense against Soviet invasion. That we are or were disliked any more or less because of Bush was just another lie perpetrated by the left.
re.

You mean it's nothing to do with you guys constantly sticking your beak in where it's not wanted? Like Central America, Viet Nam, Iraq etc? You mean that ain't the reason...

Who is you guys? I haven't stuck my nose in anywhere, thanks. And if you're going to try and throw dishonest bullshit at me, at least find something history might back up. Vietnam was JFK's and LBJ's war. Last I checked, they were Democrats.

Either way, they are reasons only to leftwingnuts that try to blame everything wrong with the US on the right. No sale here. The fact is, once you cowering fucks figured you didn't have anything to fear and could come out from behind our skirts, you started biting the hand that feeds you, and blaming the GOP for the US being "bad."

Try again.

 

[Gunny]

Afghanistan, Pakistan.

Keep out of those places too, especially Pakistan...

Sure thing. How about if we just dig a big hole and disappear into it? Who are you going to blame your problem on and hate THEN? China? Europe? No matter ... it'll be whoever's on top.

 

[Gunny]

There were a hell of a lot of people Wanted us in Sout VietNam. the survivors live here now.of them live here now. A hell of a lot of Kuwaitis wanted us in Iraq. And we were already at war.

Of course Diem and his cohorts wanted you there. You were propping up their nice little corrupt regime....Thanks US tax payers!

Lame. Diem was assassinated before JFK was, and the coup was a result of knowledge that the US would not interfere.

And again, JFK was President at the time. His successor, who escalated the war to direct US involvement was also a Democrat.

Again, try again.

 

[Xenophon]

JFK appoved Deim's assasination.

According to Giap, it was the turning point of the war, the south never again had a strong anti-communist leader, Ky was weak.

 

[Gunny]

JFK appoved Deim's assasination.

According to Giap, it was the turning point of the war, the south never again had a strong anti-communist leader, Ky was weak.

Actually, he didn't approve the assassination. Henry Cabot Lodge let it be known to those that were in the need to know that the US would not interfere in the coup. Lodge even went so far as to try to get Diem to accept US protection and presumably be hustled off to the US.
Diem refused.

Diem may have been a "strong" leader, but he was also an elitist leftover from the French colonial caste system. Between he, his wife and brother in law, they managed to alienate a LOT of people in the South. Kennedy finally gave up on him after repeated attempts to get him to introduce reforms in the South; which, he refused to do.

 

[Xenophon]

Which leads to his approval of his assasination and ultimately the defeat in South Vietnam.

 

[Sinatra]

Kennedy knew the assassination was going to happen.

He told the American operatives to back away and let things happen of their own accord.

This resulted in a mess, and led to increased US involvement.

Then came LBJ, and the all-out Vietnam war effort - a complete disaster as our soldiers were not allowed to fight to their fullest extent - similar to the Iraq conflict - though Vietnam casualties were of course far greater than Iraq.

I have been told that our military forces in Vietnam, while better than is often portrayed via Hollyweird, pales in comparison to the all-volunteer forces of today.

Our military can kick some major ass - even when restricted by the kinder-gentler version of warfare they are forced to accomodate.

God Bless our military forces and the amazing work they do...

 

[DiveCon]

There were a hell of a lot of people Wanted us in Sout VietNam. the survivors live here now.of them live here now. A hell of a lot of Kuwaitis wanted us in Iraq. And we were already at war.

Of course Diem and his cohorts wanted you there. You were propping up their nice little corrupt regime....Thanks US tax payers!

Lame. Diem was assassinated before JFK was, and the coup was a result of knowledge that the US would not interfere.

And again, JFK was President at the time. His successor, who escalated the war to direct US involvement was also a Democrat.

Again, try again.

there is just SOOOOOO much that gump doesn't know

 

[Gunny]

Which leads to his approval of his assasination and ultimately the defeat in South Vietnam.

Again, there was no approval of assassination. Only tacit approval by turning a blind eye to the coup. From Kennedy's reaction, "Why'd they have to go and do that?" it's apparent he was not expecting assassination.

Kennedy, along with most Americans at the time, were rather naive -- as they still are -- to the fact that every country/culture in the world does not process information nor act on it the same as the Western mind does.

 

[Gunny]

Kennedy knew the assassination was going to happen.

He told the American operatives to back away and let things happen of their own accord.

This resulted in a mess, and led to increased US involvement.

Then came LBJ, and the all-out Vietnam war effort - a complete disaster as our soldiers were not allowed to fight to their fullest extent - similar to the Iraq conflict - though Vietnam casualties were of course far greater than Iraq.

I have been told that our military forces in Vietnam, while better than is often portrayed via Hollyweird, pales in comparison to the all-volunteer forces of today.

Our military can kick some major ass - even when restricted by the kinder-gentler version of warfare they are forced to accomodate.

God Bless our military forces and the amazing work they do...

He knew the coup was going to happen.

An all-volunteer force will ALWAYS be superior to a conscripted one, for the obvious reason: the former asked to be there, the latter was forced.

 

[editec]

Kennedy knew the assassination was going to happen.

He told the American operatives to back away and let things happen of their own accord.

This resulted in a mess, and led to increased US involvement.

Then came LBJ, and the all-out Vietnam war effort - a complete disaster as our soldiers were not allowed to fight to their fullest extent - similar to the Iraq conflict - though Vietnam casualties were of course far greater than Iraq.

I have been told that our military forces in Vietnam, while better than is often portrayed via Hollyweird, pales in comparison to the all-volunteer forces of today.

Our military can kick some major ass - even when restricted by the kinder-gentler version of warfare they are forced to accomodate.

God Bless our military forces and the amazing work they do...

He knew the coup was going to happen.

An all-volunteer force will ALWAYS be superior to a conscripted one, for the obvious reason: the former asked to be there, the latter was forced.

Viet Nam was a DEMOCRATIC DISASTER.

JFK knew a coupe d' etat was going to happen.

I'm not sure he knew Diem was going to get snuffed, but I certainly understand why the VN folks who took over thought they had to snuff the guy, too.

Still one cannot help but wonder how JFK would have dealt with VN had he lived.

I like to think he'd have de-escalated the war, but you can never tell with that guy.

His Cuban policies were completely insane, for example.

He damned near got the world into the third world war because of it, and his policies following that weren't exactly enlightened either.

 

[L.K.Eder]

oh my.

do you think it does matter to a vietnamese if the bombs were sent by republican or democratic US presidents?

 

[Dr Grump]

Who is you guys? I haven't stuck my nose in anywhere, thanks. And if you're going to try and throw dishonest bullshit at me, at least find something history might back up. Vietnam was JFK's and LBJ's war. Last I checked, they were Democrats.

Either way, they are reasons only to leftwingnuts that try to blame everything wrong with the US on the right. No sale here. The fact is, once you cowering fucks figured you didn't have anything to fear and could come out from behind our skirts, you started biting the hand that feeds you, and blaming the GOP for the US being "bad."

Try again.

When I say you guys, I'm saying America..we don't differentiate between you....I note you only talk about the Dem "wars"...how noble. Unlike say Grenada, Chile or Nicaragua..

I don't blame the US for much, but if the shoe fits. To be honest, from the moment I can remember I have never feared any country. That's YOUR job....it started out as the Brits, then the Native Americans, then it was the Commies, now its Muslims.. You neocon whackjobs always gotta have somebody to hate.

You wouldn't have a clue why people don't like the US..You say what you say to justify your POV without having to back it up. Difference is, I live outside the US, so I know what people on the ground think. If it's any consolation, most of us like the US a lot more than we dislike some of the shit you get up to. Except the French. They hate everybody...:O)

 

[Dr Grump]

There were a hell of a lot of people Wanted us in Sout VietNam. the survivors live here now.of them live here now. A hell of a lot of Kuwaitis wanted us in Iraq. And we were already at war.

Of course Diem and his cohorts wanted you there. You were propping up their nice little corrupt regime....Thanks US tax payers!

Lame. Diem was assassinated before JFK was, and the coup was a result of knowledge that the US would not interfere.

And again, JFK was President at the time. His successor, who escalated the war to direct US involvement was also a Democrat.

Again, try again.

Oh, my bad..Theiu was soooo much better. <rolls eyes>

Again, you are politicising it. People who saw the Viet Nam war for what it was outside of your country don't look at it from a Dem GoP POV. As far as we're concerned it was a US war....I can see why you would look at it the way you do, but we never have and never will (this goes for NZ, UK and Oz vis-a-vis any wars. I've never heard anyone in the UK describe WWII as a Conservative war - Churchill's party). As far as we're concerned it was Britain vs the Nazis....

 

[Xenophon]

Of course Diem and his cohorts wanted you there. You were propping up their nice little corrupt regime....Thanks US tax payers!

Lame. Diem was assassinated before JFK was, and the coup was a result of knowledge that the US would not interfere.

And again, JFK was President at the time. His successor, who escalated the war to direct US involvement was also a Democrat.

Again, try again.

Oh, my bad..Theiu was soooo much better. <rolls eyes>

Again, you are politicising it. People who saw the Viet Nam war for what it was outside of your country don't look at it from a Dem GoP POV. As far as we're concerned it was a US war....I can see why you would look at it the way you do, but we never have and never will (this goes for NZ, UK and Oz vis-a-vis any wars. I've never heard anyone in the UK describe WWII as a Conservative war - Churchill's party). As far as we're concerned it was Britain vs the Nazis....

Churchill was first sea lord when WWII started, Neville Chamberlin was PM.

 

[DiveCon]

Lame. Diem was assassinated before JFK was, and the coup was a result of knowledge that the US would not interfere.

And again, JFK was President at the time. His successor, who escalated the war to direct US involvement was also a Democrat.

Again, try again.

Oh, my bad..Theiu was soooo much better. <rolls eyes>

Again, you are politicising it. People who saw the Viet Nam war for what it was outside of your country don't look at it from a Dem GoP POV. As far as we're concerned it was a US war....I can see why you would look at it the way you do, but we never have and never will (this goes for NZ, UK and Oz vis-a-vis any wars. I've never heard anyone in the UK describe WWII as a Conservative war - Churchill's party). As far as we're concerned it was Britain vs the Nazis....

Churchill was first sea lord when WWII started, Neville Chamberlin was PM.

LOL
just more proof that gump knows so much that just isnt so

 

[L.K.Eder]

nice sidesteps divecon and xenophon and gunny.

what dr grump and me tried to convey was that is does not matter to people outside of the USA which party was in control when they get carpet bombed.

if you are actually interested who likes you, americans, or the US government?

germans are completely smitten with the Obama admin. and americans are well liked as a people if they dont behave like complete assholes. this is nothing new.

 

[DiveCon]

nice sidesteps divecon and xenophon and gunny.

what dr grump and me tried to convey was that is does not matter to people outside of the USA which party was in control when they get carpet bombed.

if you are actually interested who likes you, americans, or the US government?

germans are completely smitten with the Obama admin. and americans are well liked as a people if they dont behave like complete assholes. this is nothing new.

no side steppin at all
gump is just another guy that knows so much that just isnt true

 

[L.K.Eder]

nice sidesteps divecon and xenophon and gunny.

what dr grump and me tried to convey was that is does not matter to people outside of the USA which party was in control when they get carpet bombed.

if you are actually interested who likes you, americans, or the US government?

germans are completely smitten with the Obama admin. and americans are well liked as a people if they dont behave like complete assholes. this is nothing new.

no side steppin at all
gump is just another guy that knows so much that just isnt true

ignoring the meat of a post and homing in on a minor inaccuracy is a sidestep in my world.

but i don't accuse you of doing this in this case. you just stand on the sideline and call people morons.

 

[DiveCon]

nice sidesteps divecon and xenophon and gunny.

what dr grump and me tried to convey was that is does not matter to people outside of the USA which party was in control when they get carpet bombed.

if you are actually interested who likes you, americans, or the US government?

germans are completely smitten with the Obama admin. and americans are well liked as a people if they dont behave like complete assholes. this is nothing new.

no side steppin at all
gump is just another guy that knows so much that just isnt true

ignoring the meat of a post and homing in on a minor inaccuracy is a sidestep in my world.

but i don't accuse you of doing this in this case. you just stand on the sideline and call people morons.

a lot are morons
but he was wrong in what he claimed and has been repeatedly
maybe after you've been here a few more months you will see the pattern in some of the posters here