so who likes us now....

[L.K.Eder]

no side steppin at all
gump is just another guy that knows so much that just isnt true

ignoring the meat of a post and homing in on a minor inaccuracy is a sidestep in my world.

but i don't accuse you of doing this in this case. you just stand on the sideline and call people morons.

a lot are morons
but he was wrong in what he claimed and has been repeatedly
maybe after you've been here a few more months you will see the pattern in some of the posters here

fair enough, but can you acknowledge that it is irrelevant to vietnamese, laotians, cambodians, australians, luxemburgers, iraqis and everyone else in the world WHO is pulling the trigger. they dont care for your R/D labels.

so in a thread about "who likes us" this kind of trench warfare is insignificant.

 

[DiveCon]

ignoring the meat of a post and homing in on a minor inaccuracy is a sidestep in my world.

but i don't accuse you of doing this in this case. you just stand on the sideline and call people morons.

a lot are morons
but he was wrong in what he claimed and has been repeatedly
maybe after you've been here a few more months you will see the pattern in some of the posters here

fair enough, but can you acknowledge that it is irrelevant to vietnamese, laotians, cambodians, australians, luxemburgers, iraqis and everyone else in the world WHO is pulling the trigger. they dont care for your R/D labels.

so in a thread about "who likes us" this kind of trench warfare is insignificant.

i never said they did
and would make fun of the morons that claimed that if Obama was elected the world would love us again

as if they ever really did in the first place

 

[L.K.Eder]

the difference in reception between bush and obama in germany is like day and night.

make out of that what you want.

they did some man-on-the-street interviews on the obama-party in dresden last week. now those were certified morons. cheering for obama and they did not even know what nationality he had. i'd post the video but you guys probably dont know german.

apart from that, obama has a good starting point. that does not mean germany will send troops to souther afghanistan or roll over for other demands. but the diplomatic climate is not toxic. far from it. and i guess this is the case with many other nations. face it, the bush admin was not about making friends.

 

[mememe]

The real question should be "WHEN they will like us?"

And the answer will be: "When the US will stop robbing and spreading death and misery, all under the guise of spreading democracy and saving the world."

 

[Dr Grump]

Churchill was first sea lord when WWII started, Neville Chamberlin was PM.

Pedant...

 

[Dr Grump]

ignoring the meat of a post and homing in on a minor inaccuracy is a sidestep in my world.

but i don't accuse you of doing this in this case. you just stand on the sideline and call people morons.

Which is why I have him on ignore.

As for Churchill not being PM when the war started, so what? Dunno why Xeno even made the point. He's doing exactly what I said Yanks do and ascribe a war to a person, which we don't, and was my point...go figure....

 

[garyd]

You think those 5K civilians slaughtered in and around Hue by the NVA and VC didn't alienate a crap load of people? And what about the Hmong people? You know those pesky little guys that the Vietnamese treated worse than the Klan treats Blacks.

 

[Dr Grump]

You think those 5K civilians slaughtered in and around Hue by the NVA and VC didn't alienate a crap load of people? And what about the Hmong people? You know those pesky little guys that the Vietnamese treated worse than the Klan treats Blacks.

Course it did....and???

 

[Steve Jobs]

Am I the only one who finds *everything wrong* with the idea that other countries' opinions of us are mostly based on who is president?

That leads back to the doctrine of "government epitomizes the people", and I find that illogical and ridiculous.

Back when Obama's victory was announced, I immediately noted that all my European/Australian/New Zealand friends had their MSN statuses (stati?) set to something along the lines of "Yay, Obama" along with the general message of "America, your saviour has come to rescue you."

I quite honestly don't understand this. I am an ardent believer in "can't we all just get along," and if there's one thing I hate more than anything else, it's those stupid "my country is better than yours" arguments. I find it offensive that I as an American am slightly more human now that Obama is president, whereas during the 8 years of Bush, (back when "everyone hated us") I was a backwardly-religious-nutcase-redneck-imperialist-Yank. 'Scusemewtf...

Please dear friends across the pond, don't lump me in with either Bush or He Who Is Most Holy And Shall Live Forever.

I didn't vote for either one of those used-car salesman, and I certainly don't think that I need to live in a socialist utopia to be considered a decent person.

Now, back to that book I was reading...

 

[mememe]

Please dear friends across the pond, don't lump me in with either Bush or He Who Is Most Holy And Shall Live Forever.

...

Impossible.

As you are well aware you live in a democratic country which means "Government by the people, exercised ... through elected representatives", which means your government reflects YOU!

Of course, you can always say "The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it." (Edward Dowling), but then your government wouldn't be able to claim it bombs other countries to spread democracy...

 

[garyd]

Mememe - really honest handle for a leftist, that - We don't rob anyone we ask them what they want and we pay for it. Even if half the time we've got to dig it out of the ground for them.

As for bombing people, war happens sorry about that, And the overwhelming majority of the one's we've been in were started by someone else. The fact that we are better at it than you doesn't make us worse than you just more realistic.

 

[DiveCon]

Please dear friends across the pond, don't lump me in with either Bush or He Who Is Most Holy And Shall Live Forever.

...

Impossible.

As you are well aware you live in a democratic country which means "Government by the people, exercised ... through elected representatives", which means your government reflects YOU!

Of course, you can always say "The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it." (Edward Dowling), but then your government wouldn't be able to claim it bombs other countries to spread democracy...

no, we do NOT have a democracy, we have a represenitive republic

 

[mememe]

Mememe - really honest handle for a leftist, that - We don't rob anyone we ask them what they want and we pay for it. Even if half the time we've got to dig it out of the ground for them.

As for bombing people, war happens sorry about that, And the overwhelming majority of the one's we've been in were started by someone else. The fact that we are better at it than you doesn't make us worse than you just more realistic.

That's the funniest thing I've read in a while!

Pray tell me how Iraqi or Afghani people (not the kept elite!) benefit from the war you carry against them for their natural resources?

The US doesn’t like to pay for what it thinks it can take by force. The problem is, you can win a war against a regular army, but you can’t win against people who don’t want you in their country.

 

[rhodescholar]

i reiterate...

go whine about the saudis... egypt and the pals all getting money before you waste more bandwidth.

And the pakis, and the Indians, and the $108 BILLION going to the IMF, funny how no leftist/anti-semite turds are mentioning that one...

Or the BILLIONS given to the UN, which is the staunch enemy of Israel, oops forgot that one says the anti-semite filth...

 

[rhodescholar]

Am I the only one who finds *everything wrong* with the idea that other countries' opinions of us are mostly based on who is president?

That leads back to the doctrine of "government epitomizes the people", and I find that illogical and ridiculous.

Back when Obama's victory was announced, I immediately noted that all my European/Australian/New Zealand friends had their MSN statuses (stati?) set to something along the lines of "Yay, Obama" along with the general message of "America, your saviour has come to rescue you."

I quite honestly don't understand this. I am an ardent believer in "can't we all just get along," and if there's one thing I hate more than anything else, it's those stupid "my country is better than yours" arguments. I find it offensive that I as an American am slightly more human now that Obama is president, whereas during the 8 years of Bush, (back when "everyone hated us") I was a backwardly-religious-nutcase-redneck-imperialist-Yank. 'Scusemewtf...

Please dear friends across the pond, don't lump me in with either Bush or He Who Is Most Holy And Shall Live Forever.

I didn't vote for either one of those used-car salesman, and I certainly don't think that I need to live in a socialist utopia to be considered a decent person.

Now, back to that book I was reading...

This is the case of having 30-35 years of arch-socialist European media operating as a propaganda machine.

 

[mememe]

no, we do NOT have a democracy, we have a represenitive republic

Apparently, republic is one of many manifestations of democracy.

But I agree with you, there is no democracy in the US. Come to think of it, "Democracy is only a dream: it should be put in the same category as Arcadia, Santa Claus, and Heaven." (H. L. Mencken).

 

[rhodescholar]

That's the funniest thing I've read in a while!

Pray tell me how Iraqi or Afghani people (not the kept elite!) benefit from the war you carry against them for their natural resources?

The US doesn’t like to pay for what it thinks it can take by force. The problem is, you can win a war against a regular army, but you can’t win against people who don’t want you in their country.

Red alert, this fucking HAS to be a puppet account...

What natural resources are there in Afghan, genius? Opium seeds?

And remind us how much oil has been brought into the US from Iraq?

 

[mememe]

That's the funniest thing I've read in a while!

Pray tell me how Iraqi or Afghani people (not the kept elite!) benefit from the war you carry against them for their natural resources?

The US doesn’t like to pay for what it thinks it can take by force. The problem is, you can win a war against a regular army, but you can’t win against people who don’t want you in their country.

Red alert, this fucking HAS to be a puppet account...

What natural resources are there in Afghan, genius? Opium seeds?

And remind us how much oil has been brought into the US from Iraq?

Well, you will have to ask Bush & C0 about Iraqi oil/reconstruction projects that went their way.

As for Afghanistan, see for yourself: Trans Afghan pipeline
http://www.courtfool.net/images/Pipelines_to_9_11/Trans_Afghanistan_Pipeline.GIF

1. It seems US was making plans to attack Afghanistan well before 9/11:
BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | US 'planned attack on Taleban'
Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.
Mr. Naik was told that Washington would launch its operation from bases in Tajikistan, where American advisers were already in place. Mr. Naik was told that if the military action went ahead it would take place before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.
He said that he was in no doubt that after the World Trade Center bombings this pre-existing U.S. plan had been built upon and would be implemented within two or three weeks. And he said it was doubtful that Washington would drop its plan even if Bin Laden were to be surrendered immediately by the Taliban.

November 2001, a book by Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie “Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth,” (you can buy it from Amazon for a fiver) According to a former French secret service agent, and an investigative journalist, the U.S. viewed the Taliban before August 2001 “as a source of stability in Central Asia that would enable the construction of an oil pipeline across Central Asia.” A Taliban representative opened negotiations with the freshly installed George W. Bush by taking an expensive Afghan carpet to Washington in February 2001, but U.S.-Afghan talks went poorly. “At one point during the negotiations, the U.S. representatives told the Taliban official, ‘either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs.’”

2. From mid-90-s the US were in talks with Taliban over trans-Afghan oil/gas pipeline; the agreement fell on its face in 1998.

3. On October 10, 2001 (third day of the bombing campaign?) the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan Wendy Chamberlain met with Pakistan’s oil minister to discuss the old Unocal deal.

4. December 31, 2001, Bush appointed Khalilzad as his Special Presidential Envoy for Afghanistan, later as U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan. Khalilzad is a former Unocal Corporation consultant, a member of the National Security Council on Persian Gulf- and Southeast Asian-related affairs and reported to former ChevronTexaco general counsel Condoleezza Rice.

5. What is interesting is that appointed by the US Karzai, is also a former Unocal consultant.

6. Guardian newspaper wrote on May 31, “Gas analysts warn the project would be vulnerable to disruption by warlords unless it was buried deep enough in the ground, which would add considerable extra costs.” Pipe dreams | World news | guardian.co.uk

7. On August 8, 2002, the Russian state oil company Rosneft announced that it had signed an agreement with the Afghan “Mining and Industry Ministry, under which Russian specialists will study the state of [Afghanistan’s] gas fields and pipeline network over the coming month. Russian companies will finance the feasibility study and provide the Afghans with information on the work of Soviet Union specialists in Afghanistan's gas industry prior to 1988. In turn, Rosneft will participate in the development and privatization of oil and gas blocs that Afghanistan will offer in the future.” “Russian Oil And Gas Companies To Study Feasibility Of Rebuilding Afghanistan’s Gas Industry,” Associated Press, August 8, 2002.

8. "Afghanistan has significant amounts of undiscovered non-fuel mineral resources that could present a great source of wealth for the country, says the U.S. Geological Survey.
A 2007 preliminary assessment by the USGS, unveiled today at a U.S.-Afghan Business Matchmaking Conference in Washington, shows estimates for copper and iron ore resources have the most potential for extraction in Afghanistan.
Scientists also found indications of abundant deposits of colored stones and gemstones, including emerald, ruby, sapphire, garnet, lapis, kunzite, spinel, tourmaline and peridot.
Gold, mercury, sulfur, chromite, talc-magnesite, potash, graphite and sand and gravel were also listed as examples of mineral resources available for extraction.
"Afghanistan has abundant known mineral resources and also significant potential for additional, undiscovered mineral resources," USGS scientist Stephen Peters said Tuesday in a podcast." Afghanistan rich with mineral resources: report

 

[Steve Jobs]

Impossible.

As you are well aware you live in a democratic country which means "Government by the people, exercised ... through elected representatives", which means your government reflects YOU!

Except that I have never voted for anyone. Far be it from me to assume that the privilege of voting allows me to have any real bearing whatsoever on what the government decides to do. Or kill, or bomb, or tax, or criminalize, or legalize, or whatever.