So people who earn a million a year pay a lower tax rate than the middle class

[BreezeWood]

... the above might make sense if the 2003 Bush tax cuts had not created a 14 trillion $$ national deficit, that not even the poor people in America can pay off by themselves.

 

[Listening]

... the above might make sense if the 2003 Bush tax cuts had not created a 14 trillion $$ national deficit, that not even the poor people in America can pay off by themselves.

If they are not paying an federal income taxes, they can't.

Raise their taxes !!!

 

[snakedoc]

The biggest mistake I see here is people keep comparing those who are paying income tax to those who are paying capital gains taxes and acting like they are the same thing it's apples and oranges.

 

[American Horse]

It's class warfare designed to create envy. We are dangerously close to the tipping point where over half the households in the USA are receiving some sort of government check or hand out. Obama's goal is to get us over 50%.

But...since virtually everyone (but those who have unearned income) pays FICA (not really a federal income tax) and they think they ARE paying taxes and don't make hangers-on he can count on as part of the collective.

 

[American Horse]

Lets eliminate all deductions.
We should not use the tax system for promoting social structure.

But you know that is the genius of our system. We can promote productive and worthwhile objectives by granting exclusions and deductions. I think that is the main reason that we have corporate taxes in the first place, or at least the reason they can't be eliminated.

As an example they can be used to promote economic activity and thus employment, say, by encouraging the purchase of new equipment by accelerating depreciation, thus allowing the entity to keep money in their business to grow it, make it more efficient., develop new products, or explore (like oil). But corporate tax falls on the consumer and is really a regressive tax.

Wealthy people, those who have already earned their wealth, and are now preserving it by investing it, are actually risking it as capital to corporations or entrepreneurs who will pay the full individual rate as earned income, to the degree that it isn't utilized for expensing for the cost of doing business.

To me that means that the earnings on risk capital should be minimally taxed so that there will be more of it.
If you want less of something, tax it more.
If you want more of something tax it less.

 

[Political Junky]

Bam Bam is spouting off again about people who earn a million a year not paying the same percentage as the so called middle class.

Well guess what he's wrong again.

A single filer making 1 million a year would pay in $323,935 or 32.39% of his income.

A single filer earning 50K a year would pay in $8600 or 17.2% of his income.

So you see folks people who make more pay a higher percentage of their income so it's the rest of you who aren't paying their "fair share"

Link?

 

[Political Junky]

There should be a flat tax in America, and that is all there is to it.

Interesting, that's what the wealthiest Americans want. I wonder why?

 

[IndependntLogic]

Bam Bam is spouting off again about people who earn a million a year not paying the same percentage as the so called middle class.
Well guess what he's wrong again.
A single filer making 1 million a year would pay in $323,935 or 32.39% of his income.
A single filer earning 50K a year would pay in $8600 or 17.2% of his income.
So you see folks people who make more pay a higher percentage of their income so it's the rest of you who aren't paying their "fair share"

I mean no offense but the GOP is counting on the majority of the country to have the same understanding of our tax system as you do.
You look at the rates and you say to yourself "Hey! Those Dems are full of crap! Why look! The Rich pay more!
This is simply not true - as it applies to a percentage of income. The turth is that middle class has paid the highest percentage of income in this country for quite some time.
Someone else mentions captial gains and while that is a significant factor, it is not even close to the whole story of why you pay more than the average partner at any of the largest 100 law firms in the USA.
Our tax code is designed to benefit the rich and those of us who own corporations, more than it does our citizens. As a business owner, I get dozens of write-offs that you don't. Cars, computers, phones, travel, you name it, I can deduct it and you can't.
More than that, if I'm having a particularly good year, I don't have to pay myself. I can simpy "defer" a large portion of my compensation or choose any of a dozen other ways to avoid paying taxes on it.
Can a single mom raising two kids and making $50K a year, get by on only $15K? Of course not. But a partner at Jones Day making $3M a year can get by on only $900K. That means he doesn't pay taxes on 2/3 of his income until he finds yet more loopholes that will enable to him to again pay a lower percentage than you will.
How complex is this and how much is at stake? Here is a link to the attorneys at Jones Day who do nothing but figure out ways for executives to be compensated in a way that will avoid paying taxes on their income:

Jones Day | People

Go to the box where it says Practice Areas and scroll down to "Executive Compensation". There are 57 attorney who specialize in nothing but how to pay executives! They charge between $350 and $900 an hour for their advice and they all bill over 2000 hours a year. Do you think all those millions are paid to those attorneys because the rules are fair? Because they aren't able to figure out how to get someone from 35% down to 15% or 10% or even less?
And that's just at one firm!
Americans like things simple. Give 'em a nice bumper sticker phrase like "Hope & Change", "Drill baby drill", "Class Warfare" or "The Buffet Rule" and they'll grab onto it and repeat it with newfound expertise.
So it's not like I expect people to have an LLM and CPA in addition to their JD. But the OP is wrong. The rich absolutely pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes.
If it makes you feel any better, I can't think of anything Obama could do, short of overhauling major portions of tax code or perhaps restoring the deductions that were taken from the Middle Class under Reagan in the TRA of 1986. I seriously doubt either of those will happen any time soon.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Bam Bam is spouting off again about people who earn a million a year not paying the same percentage as the so called middle class.

Well guess what he's wrong again.

A single filer making 1 million a year would pay in $323,935 or 32.39% of his income.

A single filer earning 50K a year would pay in $8600 or 17.2% of his income.

So you see folks people who make more pay a higher percentage of their income so it's the rest of you who aren't paying their "fair share"

A single filer with $1,000,000 in long term capital gains will pay $150,000, or 15% of their income - a smaller share than the 50k earner - and a far smaller share than the 1000k earner who actually had to get up and go to work every day.



I can see why you wouldn't be miffed at the 50k earner paying a higher rate - after all, the right wing things its fair if the tax rate is higher for lower incomes and lower for high incomes.

But how can you justify taxing earned income at twice the rate of market income? Why should sweat be taxed more than luck? By your logic lotto winners shouldn't have to pay any tax at all on their winnings.

 

[The Professor]

Glenn Beck explains how the Buffett rule will not cause Buffett to pay more in taxes:

“Most Blaze readers have, by now, likely heard President Obama’s renewed rallying cries for the implementation of the “Buffett Rule,' which he calls a 'common sense' measure that 'does not' incite 'class warfare.' The rule was spawned by billionaire investor Warren Buffett after he penned a New York Time op-ed calling on Congress to raise taxes on America’s top income earners.

“While progressives would quickly suggest the reason is because “the wealthy are benefiting from an unfair tax system that rewards only the top ‘1%’” — in actuality, Buffett, along with George Soros and likely even Bill Gates, are not actually earning income. Thus, there is nothing to pay income tax on. Rather, long-time entrepreneurs like Buffett and Soros are likely living off their investments. This is different than earned income — such as a salary — and is not subject to income tax.

“So, while Buffett and Soros both clamor for higher income tax for the wealthy, it is all an empty display as they would not be effected by an income tax increase on the top income-earners anyway. Both rainmen maintain that an income tax increase will neither effect them nor bother them at all. This, Beck said, is the ironic 'truth.'” Becks entire article can be found at the following link:

Glenn Beck Slams the Buffett Rule, Saying Warren Buffett ‘Does Not Pay Income Tax’ Anyway | Video | TheBlaze.com

One more thing, Buffett was complaining how his secretary who earned $60,000 was paying a Federal Income Tax rate of 30%. Although many people believed Buffett, what he said was untrue. Anyone earning $60,000 a year in 2011 would have been allowed a minimum standard deduction of $5,800 plus a personal exemption of $3,700 (more if she had dependents); therefore, she would have taxable income of $50,500 and would owe taxes of $8,744 which is 14.6% of her $60,000 salary.

 

[Mac1958]

.

By the end of the day tomorrow (Friday the 13th!), approximately 3,000 individual 1040's will have passed my desk this year. Er, the computer screen on my desk. I review them from a financial perspective.

There will some, maybe 50, in which the taxpayer's gross income is over $500,000 and their effective tax rate will be under 17%. Run with that little nugget as you will, but it's a fact.

.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Glenn Beck explains how the Buffett rule will not cause Buffett to pay more in taxes:

“Most Blaze readers have, by now, likely heard President Obama’s renewed rallying cries for the implementation of the “Buffett Rule,' which he calls a 'common sense' measure that 'does not' incite 'class warfare.' The rule was spawned by billionaire investor Warren Buffett after he penned a New York Time op-ed calling on Congress to raise taxes on America’s top income earners.

“While progressives would quickly suggest the reason is because “the wealthy are benefiting from an unfair tax system that rewards only the top ‘1%’” — in actuality, Buffett, along with George Soros and likely even Bill Gates, are not actually earning income. Thus, there is nothing to pay income tax on. Rather, long-time entrepreneurs like Buffett and Soros are likely living off their investments. This is different than earned income — such as a salary — and is not subject to income tax.

“So, while Buffett and Soros both clamor for higher income tax for the wealthy, it is all an empty display as they would not be effected by an income tax increase on the top income-earners anyway. Both rainmen maintain that an income tax increase will neither effect them nor bother them at all. This, Beck said, is the ironic 'truth.'” Becks entire article can be found at the following link:

Glenn Beck Slams the Buffett Rule, Saying Warren Buffett ‘Does Not Pay Income Tax’ Anyway | Video | TheBlaze.com

Wow.

Glenn Beck really is a fucking moron.

One more thing, Buffett was complaining how his secretary who earned $60,000 was paying a Federal Income Tax rate of 30%. Although many people believed Buffett, what he said was untrue. Anyone earning $60,000 a year in 2011 would have been allowed a minimum standard deduction of $5,800 plus a personal exemption of $3,700 (more if she had dependents); therefore, she would have taxable income of $50,500 and would owe taxes of $8,744 which is 14.6% of her $60,000 salary.

He's not including FICA.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

.

By the end of the day tomorrow (Friday the 13th!), approximately 3,000 individual 1040's will have passed my desk this year. Er, the computer screen on my desk. I review them.

There will some, maybe 50, in which the taxpayer's gross income is over $500,000 and their effective tax rate will be under 17%. Run with that little nugget as you will, but it's a fact.

.

Meanwhile - what's the highest rate you see someone pay who makes 500k a year? In other words - those folks earning almost all of their 500k as regular earned income - the ones that work their asses off instead of sitting back and letting the market do the work - what do they pay?

 

[Mr.Nick]

Bam Bam is spouting off again about people who earn a million a year not paying the same percentage as the so called middle class.

Well guess what he's wrong again.

A single filer making 1 million a year would pay in $323,935 or 32.39% of his income.

A single filer earning 50K a year would pay in $8600 or 17.2% of his income.

So you see folks people who make more pay a higher percentage of their income so it's the rest of you who aren't paying their "fair share"

Progressives have difficulty with math..

Millionaires pay the equivalent of several burger flippers salaries in taxes..

Of course they have a lower tax rate - they pay more...

What is more? 5% of $1,000,000 or 10% of $12,000

That is why the rich pay less....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Bam Bam is spouting off again about people who earn a million a year not paying the same percentage as the so called middle class.

Well guess what he's wrong again.

A single filer making 1 million a year would pay in $323,935 or 32.39% of his income.

A single filer earning 50K a year would pay in $8600 or 17.2% of his income.

So you see folks people who make more pay a higher percentage of their income so it's the rest of you who aren't paying their "fair share"

Is that the truth, the whole truth and you've not omitted anything?

[I know it's not, so you have some time to correct this post]

Tell me what I omitted.

I used adjusted gross income and the 2011 tax charts.

The reason I use adjusted gross income is that as far as the government is concerned what you earned that is taxable income.

I used the single filing rates as they are the simplest to calculate.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

 

[Skull Pilot]

Bam Bam is spouting off again about people who earn a million a year not paying the same percentage as the so called middle class.

Well guess what he's wrong again.

A single filer making 1 million a year would pay in $323,935 or 32.39% of his income.

A single filer earning 50K a year would pay in $8600 or 17.2% of his income.

So you see folks people who make more pay a higher percentage of their income so it's the rest of you who aren't paying their "fair share"

Your figures in no way take into account the various forms of income.

I told you it was earned income in the first post.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Bam Bam is spouting off again about people who earn a million a year not paying the same percentage as the so called middle class.

Well guess what he's wrong again.

A single filer making 1 million a year would pay in $323,935 or 32.39% of his income.

A single filer earning 50K a year would pay in $8600 or 17.2% of his income.

So you see folks people who make more pay a higher percentage of their income so it's the rest of you who aren't paying their "fair share"

Mitt makes $56.000.00 a day and paid 13.9%

It's not earned income.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not only are they not paying, the Earned Income Credit has become real popular. Do you think Obama should break the news about where that money comes from?

As I said no deductions and a flat tax % on ALL income.

lets say 12%.

You make $100 yiou pay 12% of it in taxes you make 10,000,000 you pay 12% of it.

I hate simple answers to complex scenarios because they never work out. First of all, the government could not possibly operate on 12% taxes, plain and simple, so I must assume that you are not including Fica taxes. Now we include Fica taxes, and the poor and middle class will be taxed at a rate closer to 27% while the very wealthy will only pay 12% to 13%. Top this off with the fact that lower income earners pay the highest percentage of taxes at the state level and the lowest income earners would then be taxed at a combined rate well above 40%, while the wealthiest would be taxed at a rate well below 20%. This is the end game of the nutjobs. They think that this is really a good idea to let the wealthy be taxed the least while the working poor are destroyed. Of course the problem with all of this is that it would completely destroy the economy, but hey, it's still fun to keep screaming how we need a flat tax with no deductions so everyone pays the same amount, even though we all know it's the biggest lie there is.

FICA taxes are not included in income taxes when calculating the income tax rate.

If they were you would be adding another 4.2% to income under 106K

 

[Skull Pilot]

I heard Obama yesterday wanting the fair share to be paid. But, 47% of America pays no income tax...how is this their fair share?

If one has no income, one should not have to pay income tax.

DUH.

So 47% of the country has no income?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Bam Bam is spouting off again about people who earn a million a year not paying the same percentage as the so called middle class.

Well guess what he's wrong again.

A single filer making 1 million a year would pay in $323,935 or 32.39% of his income.

A single filer earning 50K a year would pay in $8600 or 17.2% of his income.

So you see folks people who make more pay a higher percentage of their income so it's the rest of you who aren't paying their "fair share"

Link?

Look up the 2011 tax tables . It's not difficult to do.