So...if you were in that Nightclub in Cali. would you want a gun to stop the shooter?

[Lewdog]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

That police officer lost his life in that night club. He was obviously armed, well-trained.... and yet he is dead.

Let's pretend we're all in that night club. There's you, an obvious gun fan. There's me, who loathes guns yet I unfortunately own several because of inheritance, and know how to shoot them... and am a good shot. I'm there just having fun but because I'm a female and concerned about being assaulted while out having fun drinking and stuff, I have my .357 in my purse. As always, I have my purse draped over my chair. Music is throbbing, ppl are having fun, I'm just hanging with my buds and drinking. OH CRAP. The Shooter comes in blazing. Suddenly chairs are overturned, ppl are rushing around in all directions, there's screaming and chaos. It's dark. There are flashing lights. I can't see shit except for the table I dived under. I suspect that the shooter is coming closer to my location. My choice is now to stay low, or play hero, find my gun in my purse, and pop up and cap him. I'm a good shot... but would my survival instinct tell me to save others by shooting him? Probably not. And in almost all mass-shooting events in this country, armed citizens have felt exactly the same and failed to take out the murderer.

Get enough Good guys-gals with guns maybe some of these shooters will be stopped? Not just lay down on the floor? Maybe a guy in the back will fire back and at least distract the shooter.

Anything is better than a turkey shoot.

Maybe? In the Parkland shooting we saw a 20+ year vet too scared to enter. In this shooting we saw a 29 year old vet go in and get shot and killed. These are people with advanced training with firearms.

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

 

[elongobardi]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

That police officer lost his life in that night club. He was obviously armed, well-trained.... and yet he is dead.

Let's pretend we're all in that night club. There's you, an obvious gun fan. There's me, who loathes guns yet I unfortunately own several because of inheritance, and know how to shoot them... and am a good shot. I'm there just having fun but because I'm a female and concerned about being assaulted while out having fun drinking and stuff, I have my .357 in my purse. As always, I have my purse draped over my chair. Music is throbbing, ppl are having fun, I'm just hanging with my buds and drinking. OH CRAP. The Shooter comes in blazing. Suddenly chairs are overturned, ppl are rushing around in all directions, there's screaming and chaos. It's dark. There are flashing lights. I can't see shit except for the table I dived under. I suspect that the shooter is coming closer to my location. My choice is now to stay low, or play hero, find my gun in my purse, and pop up and cap him. I'm a good shot... but would my survival instinct tell me to save others by shooting him? Probably not. And in almost all mass-shooting events in this country, armed citizens have felt exactly the same and failed to take out the murderer.

Get enough Good guys-gals with guns maybe some of these shooters will be stopped? Not just lay down on the floor? Maybe a guy in the back will fire back and at least distract the shooter.

Anything is better than a turkey shoot.

Maybe? In the Parkland shooting we saw a 20+ year vet too scared to enter. In this shooting we saw a 29 year old vet go in and get shot and killed. These are people with advanced training with firearms.

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


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[Borillar]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

Yeah... guns + more guns + crazy people with guns + drunks with guns = peace and security???

 

[Lewdog]

That police officer lost his life in that night club. He was obviously armed, well-trained.... and yet he is dead.

Let's pretend we're all in that night club. There's you, an obvious gun fan. There's me, who loathes guns yet I unfortunately own several because of inheritance, and know how to shoot them... and am a good shot. I'm there just having fun but because I'm a female and concerned about being assaulted while out having fun drinking and stuff, I have my .357 in my purse. As always, I have my purse draped over my chair. Music is throbbing, ppl are having fun, I'm just hanging with my buds and drinking. OH CRAP. The Shooter comes in blazing. Suddenly chairs are overturned, ppl are rushing around in all directions, there's screaming and chaos. It's dark. There are flashing lights. I can't see shit except for the table I dived under. I suspect that the shooter is coming closer to my location. My choice is now to stay low, or play hero, find my gun in my purse, and pop up and cap him. I'm a good shot... but would my survival instinct tell me to save others by shooting him? Probably not. And in almost all mass-shooting events in this country, armed citizens have felt exactly the same and failed to take out the murderer.

Get enough Good guys-gals with guns maybe some of these shooters will be stopped? Not just lay down on the floor? Maybe a guy in the back will fire back and at least distract the shooter.

Anything is better than a turkey shoot.

Maybe? In the Parkland shooting we saw a 20+ year vet too scared to enter. In this shooting we saw a 29 year old vet go in and get shot and killed. These are people with advanced training with firearms.

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

 

[elongobardi]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

Yeah... guns + more guns + crazy people with guns + drunks with guns = peace and security???

Say your prayers that someday the good people with a gun are there to save your ass. I don’t care what you think but I know I’m safe and my family is safe when I armed. See your an IT guy who sits behind a desk what do you have to worry about. Sore wrist. I’m s retired police officer and I see people I have arrested quite often. The only reason they don’t mess with me or my family is they know I’m armed Go play with your computer while the real men handle the difficult stuff. Pussy


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[elongobardi]

Get enough Good guys-gals with guns maybe some of these shooters will be stopped? Not just lay down on the floor? Maybe a guy in the back will fire back and at least distract the shooter.

Anything is better than a turkey shoot.

Maybe? In the Parkland shooting we saw a 20+ year vet too scared to enter. In this shooting we saw a 29 year old vet go in and get shot and killed. These are people with advanced training with firearms.

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

If there is someone trained and knows how to use there guns they will take care of business. I go to the shots fired. I don’t hide like those pussy cops did. You take an oath to protect people and if you can’t you shouldn’t be a cop. You just want to play Monday morning quarterback. Just because your a pussy doesn’t mean we are. The cops have been fired along with there Chief. Your trained to go in with 3 men teams. I don’t care if I’m alone. I hear shots I’m going in. You sound like a moron. You have no idea what your talking about. I would love to see the government try to take our guns away. If we stood true to the 2nd Amendment, there be a lot less violence in the US.


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[007]

Here's the mongrel democraps and their Nazi goon squad ANTIFA's stand on guns and the police...

 

[Lewdog]

Maybe? In the Parkland shooting we saw a 20+ year vet too scared to enter. In this shooting we saw a 29 year old vet go in and get shot and killed. These are people with advanced training with firearms.

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

If there is someone trained and knows how to use there guns they will take care of business. I go to the shots fired. I don’t hide like those pussy cops did. You take an oath to protect people and if you can’t you shouldn’t be a cop. You just want to play Monday morning quarterback. Just because your a pussy doesn’t mean we are. The cops have been fired along with there Chief. Your trained to go in with 3 men teams. I don’t care if I’m alone. I hear shots I’m going in. You sound like a moron. You have no idea what your talking about. I would love to see the government try to take our guns away. If we stood true to the 2nd Amendment, there be a lot less violence in the US.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure you do. Everyone is a tough guy on an internet forum. You can have all the training you want, but you don't know who is going to jump in the shit when it goes down. I had a couple guys get into a fight in the pod I was working in. I hit my alert button and immediately jumped in to break it up. The female officer from the other pod came over and got the other guy. She was a bad ass that originally worked at Lebanon Correctional, which is one of the worst prisons in Ohio. I would trust her 1,000,000 times more than most of the people I worked with. I saw several officers who would watch fights and do absolutely nothing, despite them being trained otherwise. Fact is, people who trained to deal with the situations don't always do what they should, but you expect some random citizen who took a couple hour course to kill some nutjob. You might be right one out of every hundred times. Problem is, the other 99 times it probably made the situation worse.

 

[DemaOpolo]

Is it really possible to write about everything here?

 

[2aguy]

"Women are 100 times more likely to be fatally shot by a man with a gun than use one for self defense. Women who are suffering from domestic violence are five times more likely to be killed if there is a gun in their home, regardless of who the gun technically belongs to."

NRA's Dana Loesch Says Guns Prevent Rape But She's Wrong - Why Guns Are Bad for Women

Moron......we were discussing rape, not murder....and as my research liinks show a gun is the best tool to stop a rape..

And again..... if you look at the crap you linked to.....the research they used looked at the homes where it isn't the gun that is the issue...it is a home where there is a criminal, drug addiction, alcoholism, and histories of previous violence and police contacts that they focused on.....ignoring normal homes where none of those problems exist...... it isn't the gun, and if the gun wasn't there the man would kill the woman with his hands, a knife, or a club......

The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

--------

Public Health and Gun Control --- A Review (Part II: Gun Violence and Constitutional Issues) | Hacienda Publishing


Another favorite view of the gun control, public health establishment is the myth propounded by Dr. Mark Rosenberg, former head of the NCIPC of the CDC, who has written: "Most of the perpetrators of violence are not criminals by trade or profession. Indeed, in the area of domestic violence, most of the perpetrators are never accused of any crime. The victims and perpetrators are ourselves --- ordinary citizens, students, professionals, and even public health workers."(6)

That statement is contradicted by available data, government data. The fact is that the typical murderer has had a prior criminal history of at least six years with four felony arrests in his record before he finally commits murder.


(17) The FBI statistics reveal that 75 percent of all violent crimes for any locality are committed by six percent of hardened criminals and repeat offenders.(18)


Less than 2 percent of crimes committed with firearms are carried out by licensed (e.g., concealed carry permit holders) law-abiding citizens.(11)

Violent crimes continue to be a problem in the inner cities with gangs involved in the drug trade. Crimes in rural areas for both blacks and whites, despite the preponderance of guns in this setting, remain low.(11,19)



Gun availability does not cause crime. Prohibitionist government policies and gun control (rather than crime control) exacerbates the problem by making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves, their families, and their property. In fact, there was a modest increase in both homicide and suicide after prohibition and passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968.(20)

 

[2aguy]

"Women are 100 times more likely to be fatally shot by a man with a gun than use one for self defense. Women who are suffering from domestic violence are five times more likely to be killed if there is a gun in their home, regardless of who the gun technically belongs to."

NRA's Dana Loesch Says Guns Prevent Rape But She's Wrong - Why Guns Are Bad for Women

Here....more information that shows your links are wrong....

Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...




These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available. Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence.



Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.

 

[2aguy]

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

If there is someone trained and knows how to use there guns they will take care of business. I go to the shots fired. I don’t hide like those pussy cops did. You take an oath to protect people and if you can’t you shouldn’t be a cop. You just want to play Monday morning quarterback. Just because your a pussy doesn’t mean we are. The cops have been fired along with there Chief. Your trained to go in with 3 men teams. I don’t care if I’m alone. I hear shots I’m going in. You sound like a moron. You have no idea what your talking about. I would love to see the government try to take our guns away. If we stood true to the 2nd Amendment, there be a lot less violence in the US.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure you do. Everyone is a tough guy on an internet forum. You can have all the training you want, but you don't know who is going to jump in the shit when it goes down. I had a couple guys get into a fight in the pod I was working in. I hit my alert button and immediately jumped in to break it up. The female officer from the other pod came over and got the other guy. She was a bad ass that originally worked at Lebanon Correctional, which is one of the worst prisons in Ohio. I would trust her 1,000,000 times more than most of the people I worked with. I saw several officers who would watch fights and do absolutely nothing, despite them being trained otherwise. Fact is, people who trained to deal with the situations don't always do what they should, but you expect some random citizen who took a couple hour course to kill some nutjob. You might be right one out of every hundred times. Problem is, the other 99 times it probably made the situation worse.

I've also known corrections officers...and they don't jump in because they let the assholes tire themselves out before they break up the fight to avoid getting injured themselves....

And again....1.1 million times a year Americans already use their legal guns with little to no training to save their own lives and the lives of others....

you don't know what you are talking about.....

 

[2aguy]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

That police officer lost his life in that night club. He was obviously armed, well-trained.... and yet he is dead.

Let's pretend we're all in that night club. There's you, an obvious gun fan. There's me, who loathes guns yet I unfortunately own several because of inheritance, and know how to shoot them... and am a good shot. I'm there just having fun but because I'm a female and concerned about being assaulted while out having fun drinking and stuff, I have my .357 in my purse. As always, I have my purse draped over my chair. Music is throbbing, ppl are having fun, I'm just hanging with my buds and drinking. OH CRAP. The Shooter comes in blazing. Suddenly chairs are overturned, ppl are rushing around in all directions, there's screaming and chaos. It's dark. There are flashing lights. I can't see shit except for the table I dived under. I suspect that the shooter is coming closer to my location. My choice is now to stay low, or play hero, find my gun in my purse, and pop up and cap him. I'm a good shot... but would my survival instinct tell me to save others by shooting him? Probably not. And in almost all mass-shooting events in this country, armed citizens have felt exactly the same and failed to take out the murderer.

Okay....again......armed civilians have already been in this exact situation......we have listed these mass public shootings where armed civilians stop them, and what you just posted did not happen..... you are making up things that you think will happen but when the actual event happened, it didn't happen your way..... the armed civilian used their gun to stop the mass shooter...... so your entire post is a made up situation that didn't happen that way when someone actually used their gun to stop a mass shooting.....

 

[2aguy]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

That police officer lost his life in that night club. He was obviously armed, well-trained.... and yet he is dead.

Let's pretend we're all in that night club. There's you, an obvious gun fan. There's me, who loathes guns yet I unfortunately own several because of inheritance, and know how to shoot them... and am a good shot. I'm there just having fun but because I'm a female and concerned about being assaulted while out having fun drinking and stuff, I have my .357 in my purse. As always, I have my purse draped over my chair. Music is throbbing, ppl are having fun, I'm just hanging with my buds and drinking. OH CRAP. The Shooter comes in blazing. Suddenly chairs are overturned, ppl are rushing around in all directions, there's screaming and chaos. It's dark. There are flashing lights. I can't see shit except for the table I dived under. I suspect that the shooter is coming closer to my location. My choice is now to stay low, or play hero, find my gun in my purse, and pop up and cap him. I'm a good shot... but would my survival instinct tell me to save others by shooting him? Probably not. And in almost all mass-shooting events in this country, armed citizens have felt exactly the same and failed to take out the murderer.

Not to mention it is a crowded club, dark lights, people running for cover, and the guy threw smoke bombs. What's the chances of shooting the gunman and not someone who just happens to be running for cover?

Or... when the cops were called out because he was acting like a nut, they should have taken his guns for his safety and that of the public. Guess what, no mass shooting.

So... you think that if they took his one gun he wouldn't have gotten another gun? Really? A man who was willing to murder 12 or more people wouldn't be able to get another gun......are you this stupid for real, or just pretending to be this stupid?

 

[2aguy]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

That police officer lost his life in that night club. He was obviously armed, well-trained.... and yet he is dead.

Let's pretend we're all in that night club. There's you, an obvious gun fan. There's me, who loathes guns yet I unfortunately own several because of inheritance, and know how to shoot them... and am a good shot. I'm there just having fun but because I'm a female and concerned about being assaulted while out having fun drinking and stuff, I have my .357 in my purse. As always, I have my purse draped over my chair. Music is throbbing, ppl are having fun, I'm just hanging with my buds and drinking. OH CRAP. The Shooter comes in blazing. Suddenly chairs are overturned, ppl are rushing around in all directions, there's screaming and chaos. It's dark. There are flashing lights. I can't see shit except for the table I dived under. I suspect that the shooter is coming closer to my location. My choice is now to stay low, or play hero, find my gun in my purse, and pop up and cap him. I'm a good shot... but would my survival instinct tell me to save others by shooting him? Probably not. And in almost all mass-shooting events in this country, armed citizens have felt exactly the same and failed to take out the murderer.

Get enough Good guys-gals with guns maybe some of these shooters will be stopped? Not just lay down on the floor? Maybe a guy in the back will fire back and at least distract the shooter.

Anything is better than a turkey shoot.

Maybe? In the Parkland shooting we saw a 20+ year vet too scared to enter. In this shooting we saw a 29 year old vet go in and get shot and killed. These are people with advanced training with firearms.

And if it wasn't a gun free zone he wouldn't have attacked it....we know this from other mass shooters who have stated they choose their locations based on the gun free status..... they don't want a shoot out, and commit suicide...like this guy did, as soon as the police arrive....... like this one did.

 

[2aguy]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

Yeah... guns + more guns + crazy people with guns + drunks with guns = peace and security???

Yes....actual experience shows that armed citizens make a country safer....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

Yeah... guns + more guns + crazy people with guns + drunks with guns = peace and security???

Armed civilians stop mass shooters.....when they are allowed to have their guns...

Keep in mind.....most public areas are gun free zones, so it is amazing that the number of mass shootings that are stopped is as high as it is because most of the time, people can't have their guns with them...

New FBI report claims that 8% of active shooter attacks during 2014-17 were stopped or mitigated by concealed handgun permit holders, but misses at least half the cases. - Crime Prevention Research Center

The first report claimed that permit holders had stopped one out of 160 active shooter cases from 2000-2013. We don’t believe that we have found all of the cases in which permit holders saved lives during that period, so we aren’t going to focus on those errors here. But we did find 14 other cases.

Adding together all the cases from 2000 to 2017, we know of a total of at least 31 out of 270 cases, or 11.5%, being stopped by permit holders.
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But first, here are the seven active shooter cases that the FBI acknowledges were stopped by permit holders:

1. Schlenker Automotive (Commerce)
On November 17, 2017, at 4:30 p.m., Robert Lorenzo Bailey, Jr., 28, armed with a handgun, allegedly began shooting in the parking lot of Schlenker Automotive in Rockledge, Florida. The manager of the auto repair shop and an employee, both possessing valid firearms permits, exchanged gunfire with the shooter. One person was killed; one was wounded. The shooter, shot twice during the exchange, was held at gunpoint by the manager until law enforcement arrived and took him into custody.

2. First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas (House of Worship)
On November 5, 2017, at 11:20 a.m., Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, armed with a rifle, exited his vehicle and began shooting outside the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. He then entered the church and continued shooting at members of the congregation. The shooter exited the church and was confronted by a citizen who possessed a valid firearms permit. The citizen shot the shooter twice, causing the shooter to drop his rifle and flee the scene in his vehicle. The armed citizen, together with the owner of a pickup truck, pursued the shooter. The chase ended when the shooter’s vehicle struck a road sign and overturned. Twenty-six people were killed; 20 were wounded. The shooter committed suicide with a handgun he had in his vehicle before police arrived.

3. Townville Elementary School (Education)
On September 28, 2016, at 1:45 p.m., Jesse Dewitt Osborne, 14, armed with a handgun, allegedly began shooting at the Townville Elementary School playground in Townville, South Carolina. Prior to the shooting, the shooter, a former student, killed his father at their home. Two people were killed, including one student; three were wounded, one teacher and two students. A volunteer firefighter, who possessed a valid firearms permit, restrained the shooter until law enforcement officers arrived and apprehended him.

4. Burnette Chapel Church of Christ (House of Worship)
On September 24, 2017, at 11:15 a.m., Emanuel Kidega Samson, 25, armed with two handguns, allegedly began shooting in the parking lot of the Burnette Chapel Church of Christ in Antioch, Tennes- see. After killing one person, the shooter entered the church and shot six people. A citizen who attempted to subdue the shooter was pistol-whipped. During the altercation, the shooter accidently shot himself. While the shooter was preoccupied, the citizen, who possessed a valid firearms permit, retrieved a handgun from his car and held the shooter at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived. One person was killed; seven were wounded. The shooter was apprehended by law enforcement.

5. Multiple Locations in Clearlake Oaks, California (Commerce)
On October 23, 2017, at 11:23 a.m., Alan Ashmore, 61, armed with a shotgun and a handgun, allegedly began firing into several homes and a vehicle in Clearlake Oaks, California, killing two people, including his father, and wounding one. Another person was wounded while fleeing out of a residence window. The shooter then shot and wounded a responding law enforcement officer before fleeing in his vehicle. The shooter drove to a nearby gas station and exchanged gunfire with the vendor, who possessed a valid firearms permit. The shooter fled the scene in his vehicle and drove to another gas station where he fired more shots.

6. Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center (Health Care)
On July 24, 2014, at 2:20 p.m., Richard Steven Plotts, 49, armed with a handgun entered his psychiatrist’s office at Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center in Darby, Pennsylvania, and began shooting, killing his caseworker and wounding his doctor. The doctor, who possessed a valid firearms permit, returned fire. One person was killed; 1 was wounded. Employeesrestrained the wounded shooter until law enforcement arrived.

7. North Milwaukee Avenue, Chicago (Open Space)
On April 19, 2015, at 11:50 p.m., Everardo Custodio, 21, armed with a handgun, began shooting into a crowd of people on North Milwaukee Avenue in Chicago, Illinois. No one was killed or wounded. A citizen with a valid firearms permit shot the suspect and restrained him until law enforcement arrived and took him into custody.

Case that the FBI agrees was missed

1. Conyers, Georgia, Sunday, May 31, 2015, The Rockdale Citizen

If a permit holder intervenes and prevents any loss of life from occurring, a shooting may not get much news coverage. But in this case, two people were killed before the permit holder was able to stop the attack.

 

[2aguy]

Get enough Good guys-gals with guns maybe some of these shooters will be stopped? Not just lay down on the floor? Maybe a guy in the back will fire back and at least distract the shooter.

Anything is better than a turkey shoot.

Maybe? In the Parkland shooting we saw a 20+ year vet too scared to enter. In this shooting we saw a 29 year old vet go in and get shot and killed. These are people with advanced training with firearms.

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

 

[Lewdog]

Maybe? In the Parkland shooting we saw a 20+ year vet too scared to enter. In this shooting we saw a 29 year old vet go in and get shot and killed. These are people with advanced training with firearms.

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

 

[2aguy]

Parkland should have never happened. There was only one armed cop working that massive school. They had security but they didn’t have guns. FBI, Sheriff’s Dept, the shooters family, the school and the kids in the school dropped the ball. They all fucked up and that’s why it happened. There were 4 cops outside while shots were being fired. They are chicken shit pieces of garbage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?