So...if you were in that Nightclub in Cali. would you want a gun to stop the shooter?

[Lewdog]

Thanks for making my point. Several trained veterans, armed and they didn't stop the shooters. Yet you think civilians with guns are going to do better.

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

 

[elongobardi]

Here's the mongrel democraps and their Nazi goon squad ANTIFA's stand on guns and the police...

He needs a beating


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2aguy]

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

And guns have nothing to do with suicide rates....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.

According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[Lewdog]

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

And guns have nothing to do with suicide rates....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.

According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

You are fucking lost if you don't think guns have anything to do with suicide. You've jumped the shark.

 

[ph3iron]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

So how many times have you battled off intruders?
Let me guess ZERO
I thought they had plenty of concealed guns
Trouble is the rubes like you are are too frantic and pantywaist. and shoot the security.
Schools, don't you think if I was a shooter the first id kill is an armed teacher?
So stupid, we are still way the most violent supposedly educated nation on earth.
Why is that again?

 

[ph3iron]

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

And guns have nothing to do with suicide rates....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.

According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

Gawd do something useful from your old white fart bathchair except cut and paste in 2 nd grade colors.
Watch judge judy.
So do we have the most nut cases of all educated countries?
And what is your advance scientific education again?

 

[Lewdog]

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

And guns have nothing to do with suicide rates....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.

According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

Gawd do something useful from your old white fart bathchair except cut and paste in 2 nd grade colors.
Watch judge judy.
So do we have the most nut cases of all educated countries?
And what is your advance scientific education again?

Google. Do you think he's ever actually read a book or a true peer-reviewed study?

 

[Borillar]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

Yeah... guns + more guns + crazy people with guns + drunks with guns = peace and security???

Armed civilians stop mass shooters.....when they are allowed to have their guns...

Keep in mind.....most public areas are gun free zones, so it is amazing that the number of mass shootings that are stopped is as high as it is because most of the time, people can't have their guns with them...

New FBI report claims that 8% of active shooter attacks during 2014-17 were stopped or mitigated by concealed handgun permit holders, but misses at least half the cases. - Crime Prevention Research Center

The first report claimed that permit holders had stopped one out of 160 active shooter cases from 2000-2013. We don’t believe that we have found all of the cases in which permit holders saved lives during that period, so we aren’t going to focus on those errors here. But we did find 14 other cases.

Adding together all the cases from 2000 to 2017, we know of a total of at least 31 out of 270 cases, or 11.5%, being stopped by permit holders.
------

But first, here are the seven active shooter cases that the FBI acknowledges were stopped by permit holders:

1. Schlenker Automotive (Commerce)
On November 17, 2017, at 4:30 p.m., Robert Lorenzo Bailey, Jr., 28, armed with a handgun, allegedly began shooting in the parking lot of Schlenker Automotive in Rockledge, Florida. The manager of the auto repair shop and an employee, both possessing valid firearms permits, exchanged gunfire with the shooter. One person was killed; one was wounded. The shooter, shot twice during the exchange, was held at gunpoint by the manager until law enforcement arrived and took him into custody.

2. First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas (House of Worship)
On November 5, 2017, at 11:20 a.m., Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, armed with a rifle, exited his vehicle and began shooting outside the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. He then entered the church and continued shooting at members of the congregation. The shooter exited the church and was confronted by a citizen who possessed a valid firearms permit. The citizen shot the shooter twice, causing the shooter to drop his rifle and flee the scene in his vehicle. The armed citizen, together with the owner of a pickup truck, pursued the shooter. The chase ended when the shooter’s vehicle struck a road sign and overturned. Twenty-six people were killed; 20 were wounded. The shooter committed suicide with a handgun he had in his vehicle before police arrived.

3. Townville Elementary School (Education)
On September 28, 2016, at 1:45 p.m., Jesse Dewitt Osborne, 14, armed with a handgun, allegedly began shooting at the Townville Elementary School playground in Townville, South Carolina. Prior to the shooting, the shooter, a former student, killed his father at their home. Two people were killed, including one student; three were wounded, one teacher and two students. A volunteer firefighter, who possessed a valid firearms permit, restrained the shooter until law enforcement officers arrived and apprehended him.

4. Burnette Chapel Church of Christ (House of Worship)
On September 24, 2017, at 11:15 a.m., Emanuel Kidega Samson, 25, armed with two handguns, allegedly began shooting in the parking lot of the Burnette Chapel Church of Christ in Antioch, Tennes- see. After killing one person, the shooter entered the church and shot six people. A citizen who attempted to subdue the shooter was pistol-whipped. During the altercation, the shooter accidently shot himself. While the shooter was preoccupied, the citizen, who possessed a valid firearms permit, retrieved a handgun from his car and held the shooter at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived. One person was killed; seven were wounded. The shooter was apprehended by law enforcement.

5. Multiple Locations in Clearlake Oaks, California (Commerce)
On October 23, 2017, at 11:23 a.m., Alan Ashmore, 61, armed with a shotgun and a handgun, allegedly began firing into several homes and a vehicle in Clearlake Oaks, California, killing two people, including his father, and wounding one. Another person was wounded while fleeing out of a residence window. The shooter then shot and wounded a responding law enforcement officer before fleeing in his vehicle. The shooter drove to a nearby gas station and exchanged gunfire with the vendor, who possessed a valid firearms permit. The shooter fled the scene in his vehicle and drove to another gas station where he fired more shots.

6. Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center (Health Care)
On July 24, 2014, at 2:20 p.m., Richard Steven Plotts, 49, armed with a handgun entered his psychiatrist’s office at Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center in Darby, Pennsylvania, and began shooting, killing his caseworker and wounding his doctor. The doctor, who possessed a valid firearms permit, returned fire. One person was killed; 1 was wounded. Employeesrestrained the wounded shooter until law enforcement arrived.

7. North Milwaukee Avenue, Chicago (Open Space)
On April 19, 2015, at 11:50 p.m., Everardo Custodio, 21, armed with a handgun, began shooting into a crowd of people on North Milwaukee Avenue in Chicago, Illinois. No one was killed or wounded. A citizen with a valid firearms permit shot the suspect and restrained him until law enforcement arrived and took him into custody.

Case that the FBI agrees was missed

1. Conyers, Georgia, Sunday, May 31, 2015, The Rockdale Citizen

If a permit holder intervenes and prevents any loss of life from occurring, a shooting may not get much news coverage. But in this case, two people were killed before the permit holder was able to stop the attack.

You really think guns in a bar is a good idea?

 

[2aguy]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

Yeah... guns + more guns + crazy people with guns + drunks with guns = peace and security???

Armed civilians stop mass shooters.....when they are allowed to have their guns...

Keep in mind.....most public areas are gun free zones, so it is amazing that the number of mass shootings that are stopped is as high as it is because most of the time, people can't have their guns with them...

New FBI report claims that 8% of active shooter attacks during 2014-17 were stopped or mitigated by concealed handgun permit holders, but misses at least half the cases. - Crime Prevention Research Center

The first report claimed that permit holders had stopped one out of 160 active shooter cases from 2000-2013. We don’t believe that we have found all of the cases in which permit holders saved lives during that period, so we aren’t going to focus on those errors here. But we did find 14 other cases.

Adding together all the cases from 2000 to 2017, we know of a total of at least 31 out of 270 cases, or 11.5%, being stopped by permit holders.
------

But first, here are the seven active shooter cases that the FBI acknowledges were stopped by permit holders:

1. Schlenker Automotive (Commerce)
On November 17, 2017, at 4:30 p.m., Robert Lorenzo Bailey, Jr., 28, armed with a handgun, allegedly began shooting in the parking lot of Schlenker Automotive in Rockledge, Florida. The manager of the auto repair shop and an employee, both possessing valid firearms permits, exchanged gunfire with the shooter. One person was killed; one was wounded. The shooter, shot twice during the exchange, was held at gunpoint by the manager until law enforcement arrived and took him into custody.

2. First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas (House of Worship)
On November 5, 2017, at 11:20 a.m., Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, armed with a rifle, exited his vehicle and began shooting outside the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. He then entered the church and continued shooting at members of the congregation. The shooter exited the church and was confronted by a citizen who possessed a valid firearms permit. The citizen shot the shooter twice, causing the shooter to drop his rifle and flee the scene in his vehicle. The armed citizen, together with the owner of a pickup truck, pursued the shooter. The chase ended when the shooter’s vehicle struck a road sign and overturned. Twenty-six people were killed; 20 were wounded. The shooter committed suicide with a handgun he had in his vehicle before police arrived.

3. Townville Elementary School (Education)
On September 28, 2016, at 1:45 p.m., Jesse Dewitt Osborne, 14, armed with a handgun, allegedly began shooting at the Townville Elementary School playground in Townville, South Carolina. Prior to the shooting, the shooter, a former student, killed his father at their home. Two people were killed, including one student; three were wounded, one teacher and two students. A volunteer firefighter, who possessed a valid firearms permit, restrained the shooter until law enforcement officers arrived and apprehended him.

4. Burnette Chapel Church of Christ (House of Worship)
On September 24, 2017, at 11:15 a.m., Emanuel Kidega Samson, 25, armed with two handguns, allegedly began shooting in the parking lot of the Burnette Chapel Church of Christ in Antioch, Tennes- see. After killing one person, the shooter entered the church and shot six people. A citizen who attempted to subdue the shooter was pistol-whipped. During the altercation, the shooter accidently shot himself. While the shooter was preoccupied, the citizen, who possessed a valid firearms permit, retrieved a handgun from his car and held the shooter at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived. One person was killed; seven were wounded. The shooter was apprehended by law enforcement.

5. Multiple Locations in Clearlake Oaks, California (Commerce)
On October 23, 2017, at 11:23 a.m., Alan Ashmore, 61, armed with a shotgun and a handgun, allegedly began firing into several homes and a vehicle in Clearlake Oaks, California, killing two people, including his father, and wounding one. Another person was wounded while fleeing out of a residence window. The shooter then shot and wounded a responding law enforcement officer before fleeing in his vehicle. The shooter drove to a nearby gas station and exchanged gunfire with the vendor, who possessed a valid firearms permit. The shooter fled the scene in his vehicle and drove to another gas station where he fired more shots.

6. Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center (Health Care)
On July 24, 2014, at 2:20 p.m., Richard Steven Plotts, 49, armed with a handgun entered his psychiatrist’s office at Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center in Darby, Pennsylvania, and began shooting, killing his caseworker and wounding his doctor. The doctor, who possessed a valid firearms permit, returned fire. One person was killed; 1 was wounded. Employeesrestrained the wounded shooter until law enforcement arrived.

7. North Milwaukee Avenue, Chicago (Open Space)
On April 19, 2015, at 11:50 p.m., Everardo Custodio, 21, armed with a handgun, began shooting into a crowd of people on North Milwaukee Avenue in Chicago, Illinois. No one was killed or wounded. A citizen with a valid firearms permit shot the suspect and restrained him until law enforcement arrived and took him into custody.

Case that the FBI agrees was missed

1. Conyers, Georgia, Sunday, May 31, 2015, The Rockdale Citizen

If a permit holder intervenes and prevents any loss of life from occurring, a shooting may not get much news coverage. But in this case, two people were killed before the permit holder was able to stop the attack.

You really think guns in a bar is a good idea?

Yes.... I do. As long as the one carrying the gun isn't drinking I have no problem with it...and it likely would have prevented this shooting, since we know from actual mass public shooters that they specifically target gun free zones.

 

[2aguy]

Another gun free zone, and another question for our anti-gunners....if you were in that NightClub when the shooter came in.....violating the gun control laws of California, the gun free zone, and the laws against murder.....

Would you want a gun to save your life with? How about to save your wife, or other family members?

So how many times have you battled off intruders?
Let me guess ZERO
I thought they had plenty of concealed guns
Trouble is the rubes like you are are too frantic and pantywaist. and shoot the security.
Schools, don't you think if I was a shooter the first id kill is an armed teacher?
So stupid, we are still way the most violent supposedly educated nation on earth.
Why is that again?

First, moro, how would you know which armed teacher to shoot since they would carry their legal guns concealed...which is the entire reason they would deter shooters in the first place.

Britain has 9 year olds carrying knives for self defense.......and as they become more and more violent, guns will become the weapon of choice..

 

[2aguy]

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

And guns have nothing to do with suicide rates....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.

According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

You are fucking lost if you don't think guns have anything to do with suicide. You've jumped the shark.

Moron, it isn't me saying it....it is the actual researchers who studied it, you moron......

 

[2aguy]

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

And guns have nothing to do with suicide rates....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.

According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

You are fucking lost if you don't think guns have anything to do with suicide. You've jumped the shark.

Moron....can you explain why Japan, South Korea and China have higher suicide rates than we do, considering they have extreme gun control..where only criminals and cops can have guns...according to you, their suicide rates should be way, way lower than ours...right? You doofus....

 

[Lewdog]

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

And guns have nothing to do with suicide rates....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.

According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

You are fucking lost if you don't think guns have anything to do with suicide. You've jumped the shark.

Moron, it isn't me saying it....it is the actual researchers who studied it, you moron......

You haven't used REAL research in this thread, and when you do, it contradicts what you say.

FACT: When a woman has a gun in their household, they are THREE times more likely to be a victim of gun violence. FACT!

 

[2aguy]

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

And guns have nothing to do with suicide rates....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics.

According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

You are fucking lost if you don't think guns have anything to do with suicide. You've jumped the shark.

Moron, it isn't me saying it....it is the actual researchers who studied it, you moron......

You haven't used REAL research in this thread, and when you do, it contradicts what you say.

FACT: When a woman has a gun in their household, they are THREE times more likely to be a victim of gun violence. FACT!

Wrong...moron, as the actual research shows the homes where woman is killed she is married or living with a drug addict, a criminal, an alcoholic, a violent individual and they will have had multiple contacts with the police...the gun is merely a tool later used by that violent male she lives with....meanwhile, in normal homes where they don't have drug addicts, alcoholics, criminals or men with histories of violence and police contacts, they are not 3X more likely to be victims of gun violence....

Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...


These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available. Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence.

Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.

-------

As the English gun control analyst Colin Greenwood has noted, in any society there are always enough guns available, legally or illegally, to arm the violent. The true determinant of violence is the number of violent people, not the availability of a particular weapon. Guns contribute to murder in the trivial sense that they help violent people kill.

But owning guns does not turn responsible, law-abiding people into killers.

If the general availability of guns were as important a factor in violence as the CDC implies, the vast increase in firearm ownership during the past two decades should have led to a vast increase in homicide. The CDC suggested just that in a 1989 report to Congress, where it asserted that "ince the early 1970s the year-to-year fluctuations in firearm availability has [sic] paralleled the numbers of homicides."
-------

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I. VIOLENCE: THE DECISIVENESS OF SOCIAL FACTORS
One reason the extent of gun ownership in a society does not spur the murder rate is that murderers are not spread evenly throughout the population. Analysis of perpetrator studies shows that violent criminals—especially murderers—“almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behav‐ ior.”37 So it would not appreciably raise violence if all law‐ abiding, responsible people had firearms because they are not the ones who rape, rob, or murder.38 By the same token, violent crime would not fall if guns were totally banned to civilians. As the respective examples of Luxembourg and Russia suggest,39 individuals who commit violent crimes will either find guns despite severe controls or will find other weapons to use. 40
--------------------------



III. DO ORDINARY PEOPLE MURDER?

The “more guns equal more death” mantra seems plausible only when viewed through the rubric that murders mostly in‐ volve ordinary people who kill because they have access to a firearm when they get angry. If this were true, murder might well increase where people have ready access to firearms, but the available data provides no such correlation. Nations and areas with more guns per capita do not have higher murder rates than those with fewer guns per capita.53

------

These comments appear to rest on no evidence and actually con‐ tradict facts that have so uniformly been established by homicide studies dating back to the 1890s that they have become “crimino‐ logical axioms.”59 Insofar as studies focus on perpetrators, they show that neither a majority, nor many, nor virtually any murder‐ ers are ordinary “law‐abiding citizens.”60

Rather, almost all mur‐ derers are extremely aberrant individuals with life histories of violence, psychopathology, substance abuse, and other dangerous behaviors. “The vast majority of persons involved in life‐ threatening violence have a long criminal record with many prior contacts with the justice system.”61 “Thus homicide—[whether] of a

stranger or [of] someone known to the offender—‘is usually part of a pattern of violence, engaged in by people who are known . . . as violence prone.’”62


Though only 15% of Americans over the age of 15 have arrest records,63 approximately 90 percent of “adult mur‐ derers have adult records, with an average adult criminal career [involving crimes committed as an adult rather than a child] of six or more years, including four major adult felony arrests.”64


These national statistics dovetail with data from local nineteenth and twentieth century studies. For example: victims as well as offenders [in 1950s and 1960s Philadelphia murders] . . . tended to be people with prior police records, usually for violent crimes such as as‐ sault.”65

“The great majority of both perpetrators and victims of [1970s Harlem] assaults and murders had previous [adult] arrests, probably over 80% or more.”66 Boston police and probation officers in the 1990s agreed that of those juvenile‐perpetrated murders where all the facts were known, virtually all were committed by gang members, though the killing was not necessarily gang‐ directed. 67 One example would be a gang member who stabs his girlfriend to death in a fit of anger.68 Regardless of their arrests for other crimes, 80% of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had at least one earlier drug offense with 70% having 3 or more prior drug of‐ fenses.69


A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders committed in that city in the years 2003–2005 found that “[m]ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records.”70 Baltimore police figures show that “92 percent of murder suspects had [prior] criminal records in 2006.”71 Several of the more recent homicide studies just reviewed


********

 

[Skull Pilot]

They never went in moron. They stayed outside. You have no point and if those guys were on my police Department they would have been fired for staying outside. The FBI and Sheriff new about this kid and did nothing. His mom new he had guns and never said anything just like other family members and friends who said nothing. Worst of all the school new as he was expelled for bringing bullets to school and the students knew he made threats and they didn’t say a thing. One of the fathers of a student who was killed came out and said guns had nothing to do with it. It was the failure of everyone else. Sell your shit somewhere else. You have no clue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

Why do you assume anyone who commits suicide is mentally ill?

Suicide is a choice in fact it is the singular most personal choice anyone can make who are you to tell people they can't decide whether they want to live or die?

 

[Lewdog]

Exactly... they are trained professionals, armed, and were too scared to go in, yet you think a regular armed citizen is going to stop it. Get reaL.

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

Why do you assume anyone who commits suicide is mentally ill?

Suicide is a choice in fact it is the singular most personal choice anyone can make who are you to tell people they can't decide whether they want to live or die?

Is this a serious question? No rational person outside those with incurable disease or in order to sacrifice their life for other's, whether it just be temporary or permanent, commits suicide, or attempts to commit suicide, without having a mental defect. It's a reaction that goes against very basic human nature.

And why should you be able to tell a person whether they can live or die by committing suicide? Because it is a proven fact that most people that attempt suicide, or who are stopped from committing suicide, later admit they are glad they didn't die... and those that don't, are almost always shown to HAVE a mental illness. A lot of people don't even KNOW they have a mental illness, and because of the stigma of mental illness they will not seek out treatment, and it takes an event like an attempted suicide before they do get help... and they are thankful to know it can help.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes...regular citizens with guns stop mass public shooters...

The Problem With the FBI's 'Active Shooter' Data | RealClearPolitics

But the bureau misses at least 23 cases where permit holders saved the day. That means they stopped 11.5 percent of active shooter incidents from 2000 to 2017. We at the Crime Prevention Research Center are more confident that we have all of the cases from 2014 to 2017, when 16.5 percent of attacks were stopped.

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

Why do you assume anyone who commits suicide is mentally ill?

Suicide is a choice in fact it is the singular most personal choice anyone can make who are you to tell people they can't decide whether they want to live or die?

Is this a serious question? No rational person outside those with incurable disease or in order to sacrifice their life for other's, whether it just be temporary or permanent, commits suicide, or attempts to commit suicide, without having a mental defect. It's a reaction that goes against very basic human nature.

And why should you be able to tell a person whether they can live or die by committing suicide? Because it is a proven fact that most people that attempt suicide, or who are stopped from committing suicide, later admit they are glad they didn't die... and those that don't, are almost always shown to HAVE a mental illness. A lot of people don't even KNOW they have a mental illness, and because of the stigma of mental illness they will not seek out treatment, and it takes an event like an attempted suicide before they do get help... and they are thankful to know it can help.

That's quite an assumption.

And it's pure bullshit

Suicide is a choice whether it's a good or bad choice isn't up to you to decide

 

[Lewdog]

lol... damn man you seriously read so much pro-gun propaganda you are brainwashed. Sadly the FBI expert that talked about Parkland that said it most often people that are so much into guns that are the ones that end up having issues.

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

Why do you assume anyone who commits suicide is mentally ill?

Suicide is a choice in fact it is the singular most personal choice anyone can make who are you to tell people they can't decide whether they want to live or die?

Is this a serious question? No rational person outside those with incurable disease or in order to sacrifice their life for other's, whether it just be temporary or permanent, commits suicide, or attempts to commit suicide, without having a mental defect. It's a reaction that goes against very basic human nature.

And why should you be able to tell a person whether they can live or die by committing suicide? Because it is a proven fact that most people that attempt suicide, or who are stopped from committing suicide, later admit they are glad they didn't die... and those that don't, are almost always shown to HAVE a mental illness. A lot of people don't even KNOW they have a mental illness, and because of the stigma of mental illness they will not seek out treatment, and it takes an event like an attempted suicide before they do get help... and they are thankful to know it can help.

That's quite an assumption.

And it's pure bullshit

Suicide is a choice whether it's a good or bad choice isn't up to you to decide

No it isn't. Please enlighten me. People who are not in a fit state of mind can not make a reasonable decision. We don't let people make even monetary decisions while not in the right state of mind... why the fuck would we let them decide to make an irreversible decision, that they can not tell you after they are dead they regret it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And yet with over 600 million guns in private hands, and well over 17.25 million people who can and do carry guns for self defense, we have well under 10 mass public shootings each year, 6 and under up to 2017, and 11 in 2017, an outlier..

So out of 320 million people we had 6 do mass shootings in 2016...

Can you do the math on that one...and get back to us?

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

Why do you assume anyone who commits suicide is mentally ill?

Suicide is a choice in fact it is the singular most personal choice anyone can make who are you to tell people they can't decide whether they want to live or die?

Is this a serious question? No rational person outside those with incurable disease or in order to sacrifice their life for other's, whether it just be temporary or permanent, commits suicide, or attempts to commit suicide, without having a mental defect. It's a reaction that goes against very basic human nature.

And why should you be able to tell a person whether they can live or die by committing suicide? Because it is a proven fact that most people that attempt suicide, or who are stopped from committing suicide, later admit they are glad they didn't die... and those that don't, are almost always shown to HAVE a mental illness. A lot of people don't even KNOW they have a mental illness, and because of the stigma of mental illness they will not seek out treatment, and it takes an event like an attempted suicide before they do get help... and they are thankful to know it can help.

That's quite an assumption.

And it's pure bullshit

Suicide is a choice whether it's a good or bad choice isn't up to you to decide

No it isn't. Please enlighten me. People who are not in a fit state of mind can not make a reasonable decision. We don't let people make even monetary decisions while not in the right state of mind... why the fuck would we let them decide to make an irreversible decision, that they can not tell you after they are dead they regret it.

No one is coerced into choosing to commit suicide

It is by definition an act of free will.

And people make bad decisions all the time and it's not any of your business if they do.

 

[Lewdog]

Bro, mass shootings are not the only gun deaths... how many people commit suicide each year with guns they shouldn't have because of mental illness?

Why do you assume anyone who commits suicide is mentally ill?

Suicide is a choice in fact it is the singular most personal choice anyone can make who are you to tell people they can't decide whether they want to live or die?

Is this a serious question? No rational person outside those with incurable disease or in order to sacrifice their life for other's, whether it just be temporary or permanent, commits suicide, or attempts to commit suicide, without having a mental defect. It's a reaction that goes against very basic human nature.

And why should you be able to tell a person whether they can live or die by committing suicide? Because it is a proven fact that most people that attempt suicide, or who are stopped from committing suicide, later admit they are glad they didn't die... and those that don't, are almost always shown to HAVE a mental illness. A lot of people don't even KNOW they have a mental illness, and because of the stigma of mental illness they will not seek out treatment, and it takes an event like an attempted suicide before they do get help... and they are thankful to know it can help.

That's quite an assumption.

And it's pure bullshit

Suicide is a choice whether it's a good or bad choice isn't up to you to decide

No it isn't. Please enlighten me. People who are not in a fit state of mind can not make a reasonable decision. We don't let people make even monetary decisions while not in the right state of mind... why the fuck would we let them decide to make an irreversible decision, that they can not tell you after they are dead they regret it.

No one is coerced into choosing to commit suicide

It is by definition an act of free will.

And people make bad decisions all the time and it's not any of your business if they do.

People who are NOT in the correct, stable mind-set commit suicide. That is against the very basic human action of self-preservation. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to get... and seems more personal than anything else. There is no benefit in continuing to argue this. I've not said ALL people that want to die are mentally ill... as I've discussed it is perfectly normal for those who have an incurable disease and are suffering to want to die... It is also quite understandable for those willing to die to save another person's life. It is NOT reasonable, nor understandable, to think a healthy person physically, is in the right state of mind, and should be able to just kill theirself without second thought. There is a difference between freedom of choice, and protecting an individual who is at a point in time they can not make a rational decision and understand the long term consequences of their actions.