So having "principles" means I can never NOT vote GOP???

[Harry Dresden]

Inthemiddle, you're exactly right. People have become so partisan and obsessed with red/blue, that the thought of a person deciding to change their vote shocks their core.

bullshit, you're making an arguement that because a cop or a fireman lost his or her job it's all the Republicans fault. That's bullshit. The reason these folks jobs are on the line is because the democrats and the unions have made it too expensive to keep all of them. The same damn reason GM went under. I think a nurse's job, a waitress job, a pharmacists job, a ditch diggers job is just as valuable as the cop or policemans job. JUst fire your garbage man and see what happens. You have now decided to actively engage in class warfare. There comes a time when a municipality cannot afford the salary and benefits of union labor and cuts have to be made. The answer to this? Give the taxpayer a place at the bargaining table. Put your damn money where your mouth is.

wont do you any good Willow.....i told Buc many Democratic Mayors out here are doing the same thing.....like TM's he just ignored that and went on posting...........

 

[WillowTree]

Inthemiddle, you're exactly right. People have become so partisan and obsessed with red/blue, that the thought of a person deciding to change their vote shocks their core.

bullshit, you're making an arguement that because a cop or a fireman lost his or her job it's all the Republicans fault. That's bullshit. The reason these folks jobs are on the line is because the democrats and the unions have made it too expensive to keep all of them. The same damn reason GM went under. I think a nurse's job, a waitress job, a pharmacists job, a ditch diggers job is just as valuable as the cop or policemans job. JUst fire your garbage man and see what happens. You have now decided to actively engage in class warfare. There comes a time when a municipality cannot afford the salary and benefits of union labor and cuts have to be made. The answer to this? Give the taxpayer a place at the bargaining table. Put your damn money where your mouth is.

wont do you any good Willow.....i told Buc many Democratic Mayors out here are doing the same thing.....like TM's he just ignored that and went on posting...........

He's just dishonest. He was never a Republican. I despise that kind of dishonesty.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Dems need cartoons to help them understand the issues.

I needed a good laugh - thanks...

 

[Freewill]

NO, having principles means you vote your consciences, it does not mean you only vote Republican. That is why I have a really hard time understanding the love affair that blacks have with the Democrat party. Not that they don't have principles it is just that I would not want to be associated with the party that did actually put them in chains. Maybe they don't like the Republican party but certainly there are third parties. As long as people hold their noses and stay in parties like the Democrat party things are just not going to get better. Another example would be the Unions and Clinton. When he was about to send America down the river by signing the "free" trade agreements the Unions said they would punish anyone who voted for the treaties. They did not. They have no principles.

 

[Paulie]

you dont care about freedom or you wouldnt back the republican efforts to keep people from voting

It's an effort to keep NON CITIZENS from voting. Much like the efforts of police officers to keep non licensed drivers from driving.

There are basic requirements necessary to participate in all KINDS of things in this country. Voting is just another example.

 

[Paulie]

Inthemiddle, you're exactly right. People have become so partisan and obsessed with red/blue, that the thought of a person deciding to change their vote shocks their core.

bullshit, you're making an arguement that because a cop or a fireman lost his or her job it's all the Republicans fault. That's bullshit. The reason these folks jobs are on the line is because the democrats and the unions have made it too expensive to keep all of them. The same damn reason GM went under. I think a nurse's job, a waitress job, a pharmacists job, a ditch diggers job is just as valuable as the cop or policemans job. JUst fire your garbage man and see what happens. You have now decided to actively engage in class warfare. There comes a time when a municipality cannot afford the salary and benefits of union labor and cuts have to be made. The answer to this? Give the taxpayer a place at the bargaining table. Put your damn money where your mouth is.

If you really listen to what he's saying, he's already touched on that himself. He understands many are overpaid. His beef is that there are a plethora of other areas to cut that are much less necessary for the public interest, that are being disregarded in favor of cutting some of the most necessary functions of government.

When a firefighter loses his job to budget cuts, while a bridge to nowhere is being built, there's a reason to be upset.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

You are a real moron. I have posted many threads about our party's stupid moves. I have posted a few pro Obama choice threads about something he did that I liked. I have responded to others threads about dumb shit our party occasionally does i.e. Blunt in Missouri. I even acknowledged that our presidential choices during the primaries was sorely lacking.

I HOWEVER HAVEN'T PRETENDED TO BE SOMETHING I'M NOT.

 

[Paulie]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

You are a real moron. I have posted many threads about our party's stupid moves. I have posted a few pro Obama choice threads about something he did that I liked. I have responded to others threads about dumb shit our party occasionally does i.e. Blunt in Missouri. I even acknowledged that our presidential choices during the primaries was sorely lacking.

I HOWEVER HAVEN'T PRETENDED TO BE SOMETHING I'M NOT.

What's so bad about being upset that necessary functions of government are being cut instead of expenditures that aren't nearly as important in this time of economic crisis?

When parks and art programs and recreation centers aren't being cut from municipal budgets, but emergency services are, it's a legitimate beef.

 

[Paulie]

The devil will always be in the details (such as union greed), but from a macro point of view, emergency services really ought to be the last thing to go.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

You are a real moron. I have posted many threads about our party's stupid moves. I have posted a few pro Obama choice threads about something he did that I liked. I have responded to others threads about dumb shit our party occasionally does i.e. Blunt in Missouri. I even acknowledged that our presidential choices during the primaries was sorely lacking.

I HOWEVER HAVEN'T PRETENDED TO BE SOMETHING I'M NOT.

What's so bad about being upset that necessary functions of government are being cut instead of expenditures that aren't nearly as important in this time of economic crisis?

When parks and art programs and recreation centers aren't being cut from municipal budgets, but emergency services are, it's a legitimate beef.

Indeed it is but it's a LOCAL beef. It has nothing to do with national politics. Buc has been confronted with examples of democratic run states doing the same thing as republican run states and he ignores it.

He is a FRAUD and you bought his line of nonsense

 

[Liability]

The devil will always be in the details (such as union greed), but from a macro point of view, emergency services really ought to be the last thing to go.

Emergency services cost a boat load for a REASON.

Until and unless we ALL face up to the "why" part of the equation, these events will continue.

A locality or a State cannot print money as the Federal Government can. Accordingly, they should NEVER -- ever -- under ANY circumstances adopt a budget that entails a debt. The most they should do is propose bonds and get authority to increase local/State taxes to cover such temporary borrowing. But the budget should balance.

Irresponsible local and State governments have fiscal policies that can cause more misery than just budget cuts.

And to put the cap on it, it is PAST time we accept the fact that government employee retirement packages are expensive as hell. There HAS to be a more rational way to cover those costs. The employees certainly want a pension plan. To GET good employees, governments may find it necessary to OFFER pension plans. But the devilish DETAILS have to be much more fiscally conservative.

 

[WillowTree]

Inthemiddle, you're exactly right. People have become so partisan and obsessed with red/blue, that the thought of a person deciding to change their vote shocks their core.

bullshit, you're making an arguement that because a cop or a fireman lost his or her job it's all the Republicans fault. That's bullshit. The reason these folks jobs are on the line is because the democrats and the unions have made it too expensive to keep all of them. The same damn reason GM went under. I think a nurse's job, a waitress job, a pharmacists job, a ditch diggers job is just as valuable as the cop or policemans job. JUst fire your garbage man and see what happens. You have now decided to actively engage in class warfare. There comes a time when a municipality cannot afford the salary and benefits of union labor and cuts have to be made. The answer to this? Give the taxpayer a place at the bargaining table. Put your damn money where your mouth is.

If you really listen to what he's saying, he's already touched on that himself. He understands many are overpaid. His beef is that there are a plethora of other areas to cut that are much less necessary for the public interest, that are being disregarded in favor of cutting some of the most necessary functions of government.

When a firefighter loses his job to budget cuts, while a bridge to nowhere is being built, there's a reason to be upset.

True that. And I might add that as long as the gov. wastes the taxpayers dollar then they should never be allowed to ask for a tax hike. Firefighters and policeman need to save their jobs by helping the tax payer. Give more for your own retirement benefits.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The devil will always be in the details (such as union greed), but from a macro point of view, emergency services really ought to be the last thing to go.

Agreed

 

[Paulie]

You are a real moron. I have posted many threads about our party's stupid moves. I have posted a few pro Obama choice threads about something he did that I liked. I have responded to others threads about dumb shit our party occasionally does i.e. Blunt in Missouri. I even acknowledged that our presidential choices during the primaries was sorely lacking.

I HOWEVER HAVEN'T PRETENDED TO BE SOMETHING I'M NOT.

What's so bad about being upset that necessary functions of government are being cut instead of expenditures that aren't nearly as important in this time of economic crisis?

When parks and art programs and recreation centers aren't being cut from municipal budgets, but emergency services are, it's a legitimate beef.

Indeed it is but it's a LOCAL beef. It has nothing to do with national politics. Buc has been confronted with examples of democratic run states doing the same thing as republican run states and he ignores it.

He is a FRAUD and you bought his line of nonsense

He's misguided about dems being a viable alternative, that's for sure. But I'm not jumping on the fraud bandwagon, because I just dont buy it. The guy spent 2 years making thousands of posts to the right around here. No one puts that much effort into defrauding message boards just to pop out one day and reveal some kind of apparent truth that existed all along.

Occam's razor.

 

[Paulie]

bullshit, you're making an arguement that because a cop or a fireman lost his or her job it's all the Republicans fault. That's bullshit. The reason these folks jobs are on the line is because the democrats and the unions have made it too expensive to keep all of them. The same damn reason GM went under. I think a nurse's job, a waitress job, a pharmacists job, a ditch diggers job is just as valuable as the cop or policemans job. JUst fire your garbage man and see what happens. You have now decided to actively engage in class warfare. There comes a time when a municipality cannot afford the salary and benefits of union labor and cuts have to be made. The answer to this? Give the taxpayer a place at the bargaining table. Put your damn money where your mouth is.

If you really listen to what he's saying, he's already touched on that himself. He understands many are overpaid. His beef is that there are a plethora of other areas to cut that are much less necessary for the public interest, that are being disregarded in favor of cutting some of the most necessary functions of government.

When a firefighter loses his job to budget cuts, while a bridge to nowhere is being built, there's a reason to be upset.

True that. And I might add that as long as the gov. wastes the taxpayers dollar then they should never be allowed to ask for a tax hike. Firefighters and policeman need to save their jobs by helping the tax payer. Give more for your own retirement benefits.

Each municipality is its own case and it's impossible for me to really opine about it on a broad level other than to try as hard as possible to err on the side of safety and order and save emergency services whenever possible.

Are there many towns where cops and FF could give up a little? Fuck yeah.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

You are a real moron. I have posted many threads about our party's stupid moves. I have posted a few pro Obama choice threads about something he did that I liked. I have responded to others threads about dumb shit our party occasionally does i.e. Blunt in Missouri. I even acknowledged that our presidential choices during the primaries was sorely lacking.

I HOWEVER HAVEN'T PRETENDED TO BE SOMETHING I'M NOT.

What's so bad about being upset that necessary functions of government are being cut instead of expenditures that aren't nearly as important in this time of economic crisis?

When parks and art programs and recreation centers aren't being cut from municipal budgets, but emergency services are, it's a legitimate beef.

Usually, when local Democrats cry for higher taxes, they say without these higher taxes, we'll have to cut emergency services.
The local Dems never come up with these safer cuts on their own.
Maybe the Tea Party people the OP is whining about just said, fine, cut the cops and firefighters, since these are the only things you mention when pushing higher taxes.

Without specific examples, I'm leaning toward the idea that the OP is lying and was always going to vote for Obama.

 

[kaz]

What the Hell have I missed while working overtime?

Work? That's so passe. Voting Democratic is the "new" work...

 

[freedombecki]

New database of US voter fraud finds no evidence that photo ID laws are needed - Open Channel

Stop lying about the facts

Omerta = burn note after reading. When questioned by a grand jury say just two words: "I forget". That's all you need to do to get rid of evidence, Miss Matters. If you were in the "in crowd" at the DNC you'd know that. I'm sorry they keep you at ground level where all there is are scatological objects to toss at conservative posters. After a few years of that, you may "get it" about your party. Omerta is a cancer. Your best friends are telling you to learn better, and all of them are conservatives. I'm joining them to tell you one thing, Miss Matters. You have been had, and so have many others.

 

[Murf76]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

It's not about being a "robot". It's about rejecting the arbitrary Mob Rule form of democracy that you've outlined above in your "smoking ban" example. Republicans recognize that democracy is inherently evil unless it's fettered by constitutional laws which protect minority opinion. IOW, we protect the Individual citizen and guarantee his rights.

This is something that just can't be unlearned once you understand it. It's not something you'll ever reject if you value freedom. The idea that 51% can just steamroll the other 49% is something you'd reject utterly if you had ever really understood the nature of unalienable rights and Liberty. And if I had to hazard a guess, it's for this reason that so many don't believe your professed conversion. Well, that and the fact that it's been pointed out to you repeatedly that the funding of police and fire departments are LOCAL issues.

 

[Harry Dresden]

you people are lying and its been proved

you have the Gall to say someone else lies when you do it yourself...and it has been proved you lie too.......you have no Character whatsoever.....your a fraud.....just like your buddy Dean....