Similarities between OCCUPY and TEA PARTY

[Ed Spacer]

I dont have much,but i will.i know it.

 

[Ed Spacer]

People like tinydancer who are conservative,and a success inspire me hardcore to rage my fight even more.

 

[Interpol]

I would have to say that the similarities between OWS and the Tea Partiers ends with the general notion that folks feel like the system is rigged against them.

That's where it ends, because (and correct me if I am wrong) the Occupiers point to Wall Street as being Ground Zero while the TeePee's point to Washington.

For the Occupiers, it is about a system bought and paid for by extremely wealthy lobbyists in order to make government work to the advantage of the few while squeezing the rest.

For the TeePee's, they blame Washington and big government waste. They want a smaller government, a smaller public sector. They say that austerity measures alone, like Ryan's plan for Medicare, will do the trick, coupled with continued tax cuts aimed particularly at the higher income levels.

For me personally, I understand the emotions of both sides, but in terms of policies I have some serious questions.

For instance, although I'm for entitlement reform, this marks the 2nd consecutive year that Paul Ryan has put forward the plan to voucherize Medicare.

Old folks are on Medicare because it would be impossible for almost all of them to be able to afford private insurance alone, what with all the problems that come with the indignities of aging.

To the best of my understanding, the Ryan plan is to take Medicare, cash it in, give people rebates, and let them have the "freedom" to go out into the world and play the free market like the rest of us. But I have a huge problem with this. What he and the Tea Party in the House are offering is to give granny a voucher coupon that maybe is enough to get her through the first few months of the year, but not nearly enough to get her through the entire year.

It's nice to say that you basically got rid of one of the entitlements, but the problem would be even worse because somebody's going to have to cover the billions in that donut hole that gets created because private insurers are going to offer these people the most expensive plans ever.

So what happens? Who pays then? It's all nice and good to give granny a $4,000 check so that she can buy her health care for herself, but what good will it do if granny is $40,000 in the hole by the end of the year because of her bad heart?

To me, the Republican proposal on this entitlement reform is no different than the Medicare D donut hole they created almost a decade ago. And as a fiscally conservative bloke, I am totally against donut holes!

So when it comes to the Tea Party, I end up stopping on the Medicare issue all the time to scratch my head at what their plans are. Voucherizing it will cost us all more in the long run so that a political fringe can say that they did away with an entitlement in the present and that doesn't sound much like "responsibility" to me.

It is also irresponsible to propose a budget that asks seniors and poor people to sacrifice the most, while the bloated Defense budget continues to go up, up and away. All of the entitlements deserve reform, not just one of them.

What I get from the visits I've made to Tea Party rallies is that for me to belong I must share their view that, a) tax cuts are deficit-neutral, b) entitlements need to be drastically reduced, c) President Obama is illegitimate because he is not American and espouses Muslim values, not American ones.

What I get from the visits I've made to OWS rallies is that for me to belong I must share their view that corporate greed and malfeasance particularly over the last decade are what caused this Great Recession and that the people are now just the pawns of the few who have everything.

At one rally I'm surrounded by old farts who want government out of their lives, but only until they elect Republicans who pass bills to end Medicare and privatize Social Security, at which point the same old farts get really upset and then kick those people out.

And at the other rally I'm surrounded by all kinds of people with all kinds of grievances that are reasonable, except the stench from the anarchists that tends to give the whole thing a bad name.

 

[Clementine]

Both are trying to force their agendas on people like me. I'm too busy working part time. Obviously they arent. They have time to slough off.

The tea parties were usually held one day and there were a lot more of them. The OWS Occupoopers hung out for months with nothing to do but shove poop in ATM machines and all the other things listed in the OP.

 

[Bfgrn]

Here is a good comparison of the two movements...

American conservatism/tea party:

Conservatives have figured out their moral basis and you see it on Wall Street: It includes: The primacy of self-interest. Individual responsibility, but not social responsibility. Hierarchical authority based on wealth or other forms of power. A moral hierarchy of who is “deserving,” defined by success. And the highest principle is the primacy of this moral system itself, which goes beyond Wall Street and the economy to other arenas: family life, social life, religion, foreign policy, and especially government. Conservative “democracy” is seen as a system of governance and elections that fits this model.


Occupy Wall Street movement:

Democracy starts with citizens caring about one another and acting responsibly on that sense of care, taking responsibility both for oneself and for one’s family, community, country, people in general, and the planet. The role of government is to protect and empower all citizens equally via The Public: public infrastructure, laws and enforcement, health, education, scientific research, protection, public lands, transportation, resources, art and culture, trade policies, safety nets, and on and on. Nobody makes it one their own. If you got wealthy, you depended on The Public, and you have a responsibility to contribute significantly to The Public so that others can benefit in the future. Moreover, the wealthy depend on those who work, and who deserve a fair return for their contribution to our national life. Corporations exist to make life better for most people. Their reason for existing is as public as it is private.
ref.

"Privilege is here, and with privilege goes responsibility. There is inherited wealth in this country and also inherited poverty. And unless the graduates of this college and other colleges like it who are given a running start in life--unless they are willing to put back into our society, those talents, the broad sympathy, the understanding, the compassion--unless they are willing to put those qualities back into the service of the Great Republic, then obviously the presuppositions upon which our democracy are based are bound to be fallible."
President John F. Kennedy
Remarks at Amherst College
Amherst, Massachusetts
October 26, 1963

Your view is a bit tainted, though you touch on the truth.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBWrLhgiX74]Soft Cell :Tainted Love Music Video - YouTube[/ame]
Soft Cell :Tainted Love Music Video

There is nothing 'tainted' Intense. It is the truth. That is why conservatives hate the progressive movement, it dismantled the plutocracy the robber barons created.


When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

 

[Two Thumbs]

The only thing similar is they both have people in each group.

After that its Tea Party vs Pee party.


the names say it all.

 

[daveman]

Would this be the same Tea Party that many Democrats referred to as fake, phony,astro turf run by special interest and big business? If this is the case and the movements are twins then I guess we know what that makes occupy.

On my route, there's a house with a professionally-printed "We are the 99%" sign in the front yard.

This house is at least a hundred years old, on the lake, half a block from a marina and across the street from a Fedgov-owned and maintained park with beautiful picnic spots and a beach. Home prices on that street run around $300K.

99% my ass.

Priceless. Just priceless.

I've had the benefit in my lifetime of people who really like being rich. I love it. And I've loved every minute of loving it. And I've been rich and yes I love it. Beats the crap out of being poor. And yes I've been poor.

Give me rich every time.

According to OWSers, being poor is morally superior.

Of course, these are the same kind of people who believe that being raped and murdered is morally superior to defending yourself with a firearm.

Morons, the lot of 'em.

 

[The T]

On my route, there's a house with a professionally-printed "We are the 99%" sign in the front yard.

This house is at least a hundred years old, on the lake, half a block from a marina and across the street from a Fedgov-owned and maintained park with beautiful picnic spots and a beach. Home prices on that street run around $300K.

99% my ass.

Priceless. Just priceless.

I've had the benefit in my lifetime of people who really like being rich. I love it. And I've loved every minute of loving it. And I've been rich and yes I love it. Beats the crap out of being poor. And yes I've been poor.

Give me rich every time.

According to OWSers, being poor is morally superior.

Of course, these are the same kind of people who believe that being raped and murdered is morally superior to defending yourself with a firearm.

Morons, the lot of 'em.

Nice analogy.

 

[daveman]

People like tinydancer who are conservative,and a success inspire me hardcore to rage my fight even more.

Tinydancer is a good woman. Never doubt it.

 

[daveman]

There is nothing 'tainted' Intense. It is the truth. That is why conservatives hate the progressive movement, it dismantled the plutocracy the robber barons created.

The progressive movement wants the United States to "progress" to the condition of the Soviet Union circa 1958.

That's not something worth cheering on.

When you understand what conservatism is, every argument they make leads to the same end.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

Oh, you mean like your support for King Obama?

Whoever told you that's the definition of conservatism lied to you.

When you understand this and view their words, ask the question; will this lead to some form of an aristocracy?

The answer is always YES...


Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

Liberalism doesn't rust people. It insists the government make all their decisions for them.

Conservatism believes people can make their own decisions.

 

[California Girl]

Here is a good comparison of the two movements...

American conservatism/tea party:

Conservatives have figured out their moral basis and you see it on Wall Street: It includes: The primacy of self-interest. Individual responsibility, but not social responsibility. Hierarchical authority based on wealth or other forms of power. A moral hierarchy of who is “deserving,” defined by success. And the highest principle is the primacy of this moral system itself, which goes beyond Wall Street and the economy to other arenas: family life, social life, religion, foreign policy, and especially government. Conservative “democracy” is seen as a system of governance and elections that fits this model.


Occupy Wall Street movement:

Democracy starts with citizens caring about one another and acting responsibly on that sense of care, taking responsibility both for oneself and for one’s family, community, country, people in general, and the planet. The role of government is to protect and empower all citizens equally via The Public: public infrastructure, laws and enforcement, health, education, scientific research, protection, public lands, transportation, resources, art and culture, trade policies, safety nets, and on and on. Nobody makes it one their own. If you got wealthy, you depended on The Public, and you have a responsibility to contribute significantly to The Public so that others can benefit in the future. Moreover, the wealthy depend on those who work, and who deserve a fair return for their contribution to our national life. Corporations exist to make life better for most people. Their reason for existing is as public as it is private.
ref.

<snipped for the pathetic quoting of an American Icon for stupid bullshit>

Depends on how you define a 'good comparison'... those with an intellect over room temperature would see your 'good comparison' as partisan bullshit. Nothing 'good' about that. Moron.

 

[Bfgrn]

Here is a good comparison of the two movements...

American conservatism/tea party:

Conservatives have figured out their moral basis and you see it on Wall Street: It includes: The primacy of self-interest. Individual responsibility, but not social responsibility. Hierarchical authority based on wealth or other forms of power. A moral hierarchy of who is “deserving,” defined by success. And the highest principle is the primacy of this moral system itself, which goes beyond Wall Street and the economy to other arenas: family life, social life, religion, foreign policy, and especially government. Conservative “democracy” is seen as a system of governance and elections that fits this model.


Occupy Wall Street movement:

Democracy starts with citizens caring about one another and acting responsibly on that sense of care, taking responsibility both for oneself and for one’s family, community, country, people in general, and the planet. The role of government is to protect and empower all citizens equally via The Public: public infrastructure, laws and enforcement, health, education, scientific research, protection, public lands, transportation, resources, art and culture, trade policies, safety nets, and on and on. Nobody makes it one their own. If you got wealthy, you depended on The Public, and you have a responsibility to contribute significantly to The Public so that others can benefit in the future. Moreover, the wealthy depend on those who work, and who deserve a fair return for their contribution to our national life. Corporations exist to make life better for most people. Their reason for existing is as public as it is private.
ref.

<snipped for the pathetic quoting of an American Icon for stupid bullshit>

Depends on how you define a 'good comparison'... those with an intellect over room temperature would see your 'good comparison' as partisan bullshit. Nothing 'good' about that. Moron.

Ah, the haughty narcissistic decided to emote.

It is right on Cali gal. I hear it every day on this board. Do you disavow the Ayn Rand 'me, me, me' mantra of the right? Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens.

 

[The T]

Here is a good comparison of the two movements...

American conservatism/tea party:

Conservatives have figured out their moral basis and you see it on Wall Street: It includes: The primacy of self-interest. Individual responsibility, but not social responsibility. Hierarchical authority based on wealth or other forms of power. A moral hierarchy of who is “deserving,” defined by success. And the highest principle is the primacy of this moral system itself, which goes beyond Wall Street and the economy to other arenas: family life, social life, religion, foreign policy, and especially government. Conservative “democracy” is seen as a system of governance and elections that fits this model.


Occupy Wall Street movement:

Democracy starts with citizens caring about one another and acting responsibly on that sense of care, taking responsibility both for oneself and for one’s family, community, country, people in general, and the planet. The role of government is to protect and empower all citizens equally via The Public: public infrastructure, laws and enforcement, health, education, scientific research, protection, public lands, transportation, resources, art and culture, trade policies, safety nets, and on and on. Nobody makes it one their own. If you got wealthy, you depended on The Public, and you have a responsibility to contribute significantly to The Public so that others can benefit in the future. Moreover, the wealthy depend on those who work, and who deserve a fair return for their contribution to our national life. Corporations exist to make life better for most people. Their reason for existing is as public as it is private.
ref.

<snipped for the pathetic quoting of an American Icon for stupid bullshit>

Depends on how you define a 'good comparison'... those with an intellect over room temperature would see your 'good comparison' as partisan bullshit. Nothing 'good' about that. Moron.

Ah, the haughty narcissistic decided to emote.

It is right on Cali gal. I hear it every day on this board. Do you disavow the Ayn Rand 'me, me, me' mantra of the right? Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens.

You're just jealous.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

One group is a bunch of vicious, neo-Marxists, anti-Semitic thugs and the other is the Tea Party

 

[daveman]

Here is a good comparison of the two movements...

American conservatism/tea party:

Conservatives have figured out their moral basis and you see it on Wall Street: It includes: The primacy of self-interest. Individual responsibility, but not social responsibility. Hierarchical authority based on wealth or other forms of power. A moral hierarchy of who is “deserving,” defined by success. And the highest principle is the primacy of this moral system itself, which goes beyond Wall Street and the economy to other arenas: family life, social life, religion, foreign policy, and especially government. Conservative “democracy” is seen as a system of governance and elections that fits this model.


Occupy Wall Street movement:

Democracy starts with citizens caring about one another and acting responsibly on that sense of care, taking responsibility both for oneself and for one’s family, community, country, people in general, and the planet. The role of government is to protect and empower all citizens equally via The Public: public infrastructure, laws and enforcement, health, education, scientific research, protection, public lands, transportation, resources, art and culture, trade policies, safety nets, and on and on. Nobody makes it one their own. If you got wealthy, you depended on The Public, and you have a responsibility to contribute significantly to The Public so that others can benefit in the future. Moreover, the wealthy depend on those who work, and who deserve a fair return for their contribution to our national life. Corporations exist to make life better for most people. Their reason for existing is as public as it is private.
ref.

<snipped for the pathetic quoting of an American Icon for stupid bullshit>

Depends on how you define a 'good comparison'... those with an intellect over room temperature would see your 'good comparison' as partisan bullshit. Nothing 'good' about that. Moron.

Ah, the haughty narcissistic decided to emote.

It is right on Cali gal. I hear it every day on this board. Do you disavow the Ayn Rand 'me, me, me' mantra of the right? Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens.

If you have to lie to make your point -- you're a leftist.

No one believes there should be no safety net.

But you want a hammock.

 

[The T]

Depends on how you define a 'good comparison'... those with an intellect over room temperature would see your 'good comparison' as partisan bullshit. Nothing 'good' about that. Moron.

Ah, the haughty narcissistic decided to emote.

It is right on Cali gal. I hear it every day on this board. Do you disavow the Ayn Rand 'me, me, me' mantra of the right? Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens.

If you have to lie to make your point -- you're a leftist.

No one believes there should be no safety net.

But you want a hammock.

And forego Liberty.

 

[Bfgrn]

Depends on how you define a 'good comparison'... those with an intellect over room temperature would see your 'good comparison' as partisan bullshit. Nothing 'good' about that. Moron.

Ah, the haughty narcissistic decided to emote.

It is right on Cali gal. I hear it every day on this board. Do you disavow the Ayn Rand 'me, me, me' mantra of the right? Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens.

If you have to lie to make your point -- you're a leftist.

No one believes there should be no safety net.

But you want a hammock.

Yea, the typical right wing polarized argument. IF you believe there should be a safety net, why are so many right wing turds calling for an end to social programs? Or supporting Paul Ryan and the teabaggers attempt to privatize Medicare? You right wing opulent ass lickers never have a problem when big pharma and the insurance cartels hook their auto-milkers up to the government tit and suck taxpayers out of billions.

 

[California Girl]

Here is a good comparison of the two movements...

American conservatism/tea party:

Conservatives have figured out their moral basis and you see it on Wall Street: It includes: The primacy of self-interest. Individual responsibility, but not social responsibility. Hierarchical authority based on wealth or other forms of power. A moral hierarchy of who is “deserving,” defined by success. And the highest principle is the primacy of this moral system itself, which goes beyond Wall Street and the economy to other arenas: family life, social life, religion, foreign policy, and especially government. Conservative “democracy” is seen as a system of governance and elections that fits this model.


Occupy Wall Street movement:

Democracy starts with citizens caring about one another and acting responsibly on that sense of care, taking responsibility both for oneself and for one’s family, community, country, people in general, and the planet. The role of government is to protect and empower all citizens equally via The Public: public infrastructure, laws and enforcement, health, education, scientific research, protection, public lands, transportation, resources, art and culture, trade policies, safety nets, and on and on. Nobody makes it one their own. If you got wealthy, you depended on The Public, and you have a responsibility to contribute significantly to The Public so that others can benefit in the future. Moreover, the wealthy depend on those who work, and who deserve a fair return for their contribution to our national life. Corporations exist to make life better for most people. Their reason for existing is as public as it is private.
ref.

<snipped for the pathetic quoting of an American Icon for stupid bullshit>

Depends on how you define a 'good comparison'... those with an intellect over room temperature would see your 'good comparison' as partisan bullshit. Nothing 'good' about that. Moron.

Ah, the haughty narcissistic decided to emote.

It is right on Cali gal. I hear it every day on this board. Do you disavow the Ayn Rand 'me, me, me' mantra of the right? Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens.

Ah... the idiot bullshitter responds.

It is bullshit, Bf.... you don't 'hear' anything... you are incapable of 'hearing'... you are far more prone to accepting one version and dismissing another. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility (not individual responsibility).... we are all responsible for our own lives.... we don't want government interference.... you see 'help', we see interference... we believe in a hand up, not a hand out. We are just as entitled to our views as Americans as you are to yours. What you are not entitled to do is steal from me to give to someone else. I'll help that person myself.... I don't need you involved.

 

[California Girl]

Ah, the haughty narcissistic decided to emote.

It is right on Cali gal. I hear it every day on this board. Do you disavow the Ayn Rand 'me, me, me' mantra of the right? Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens.

If you have to lie to make your point -- you're a leftist.

No one believes there should be no safety net.

But you want a hammock.

Yea, the typical right wing polarized argument. IF you believe there should be a safety net, why are so many right wing turds calling for an end to social programs? Or supporting Paul Ryan and the teabaggers attempt to privatize Medicare? You right wing opulent ass lickers never have a problem when big pharma and the insurance cartels hook their auto-milkers up to the government tit and suck taxpayers out of billions.

We don't need the kind of mass hand out culture... All but the most libertarian among us see a need for a safety net for our most vulnerable... but your idea of vulnerable is everyone who doesn't want to work.... every minority in the country.... every female in the country.... those people do not need hand outs... they need a helping hand to stand on their own two feet. You believe in permanent welfare, we believe in welfare to work.

 

[The T]

Depends on how you define a 'good comparison'... those with an intellect over room temperature would see your 'good comparison' as partisan bullshit. Nothing 'good' about that. Moron.

Ah, the haughty narcissistic decided to emote.

It is right on Cali gal. I hear it every day on this board. Do you disavow the Ayn Rand 'me, me, me' mantra of the right? Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens.

Ah... the idiot bullshitter responds.

It is bullshit, Bf.... you don't 'hear' anything... you are incapable of 'hearing'... you are far more prone to accepting one version and dismissing another. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility (not individual responsibility).... we are all responsible for our own lives.... we don't want government interference.... you see 'help', we see interference... we believe in a hand up, not a hand out. We are just as entitled to our views as Americans as you are to yours. What you are not entitled to do is steal from me to give to someone else. I'll help that person myself.... I don't need you involved.

Nor the Gubmint to act as his surrogate and armed to boot.