Signups for Official USMB Mafia Game #4

[sameech]

Just won my first mafiascum site game. So aside from the game you guys killed me first round and the game three kerfuffle I haven't lost.

Yeah I had never lost until I came here either. There are some very bizarre interpersonal and ego-sensitive dynamics at this site that trump game strategy.

 

[boedicca]

There are some very bizarre interpersonal and ego-sensitive dynamics at this site that trump game strategy.

This is one of the most insightful posts ever on USMB!


And again, I protest the PEDESTRIAN factions for the game. I'd rather see:


Transvestite Game Show Contestants vs. Little League State Championship Finalists vs. Short Order Fry Cooks

 

[Wolfsister77]

Just won my first mafiascum site game. So aside from the game you guys killed me first round and the game three kerfuffle I haven't lost.

Yeah I had never lost until I came here either. There are some very bizarre interpersonal and ego-sensitive dynamics at this site that trump game strategy.

Very true but I think ego and personalities occur in this game everywhere for example here's what someone said to Wake in a game he's in, not out of line really:

Don't fucking kid yourself. Nobody's worth more than a literal 100% confirmed town result. Clears > reads, despite what your ego might lead you to think.

Wake responded with this, which was over the top:

IS THAT THE ANGRY SWAMP EUNUCH I'M HEARING AGAIN? Maybe you should ask your girlfriend to pull that swamp crab out of your ass with a trusty FORCEPS. With its bulky pincer no longer clutching your throbbing dark meat, I reckon you'll start speaking with some vestige of civility again.

 

[Wake]

At Mafiascum people contort their personas in order to not be read. Now players at Mafiascum routinely predict me incorrectly, because that is the nature of the game. Who I am here is not the players I turn myself into there. If there is one thing I dislike, it's being read, Meta'd. Unpredictibility is extremely important. I now have people in the same game recalling that I'm passive when Scum, and others saying I'm aggressive when Scum. It is all deliberate, in order to throw off the perpetual chase.

 

[Wolfsister77]

It makes sense, change it up to avoid being read. I get that. But still over the top. Game related aggression would of been better.

These are better:

What is silly is your lack of reading comprehension.

If you're Scum, don't even try and appeal to some perceived sense of self-preservation. You will fail.

I make life difficult for Scum, so I have no problem being called hyper-paranoid in a game with deceitful Scum trying to murder and manipulate everyone.

Those are great and I would never have a problem with that kind of talk. Your over the top one, I would have.

Just giving some examples of game related aggression vs personal attack. Hell, swearing should definitely be part of the game.

We should be able to call someone a liar too but that was a big deal last game.

So if we want to fix the USMB dynamic, these are some things to think about.

New players would also help because they can't be read like a book like people who play together a lot can be and it would be interesting to figure them out.

 

[sameech]

Just won my first mafiascum site game. So aside from the game you guys killed me first round and the game three kerfuffle I haven't lost.

Yeah I had never lost until I came here either. There are some very bizarre interpersonal and ego-sensitive dynamics at this site that trump game strategy.

Very true but I think ego and personalities occur in this game everywhere for example here's what someone said to Wake in a game he's in, not out of line really:

Don't fucking kid yourself. Nobody's worth more than a literal 100% confirmed town result. Clears > reads, despite what your ego might lead you to think.

Wake responded with this, which was over the top:

IS THAT THE ANGRY SWAMP EUNUCH I'M HEARING AGAIN? Maybe you should ask your girlfriend to pull that swamp crab out of your ass with a trusty FORCEPS. With its bulky pincer no longer clutching your throbbing dark meat, I reckon you'll start speaking with some vestige of civility again.

it is beyond the level of flaming allowed IMO. Some examples:

The I should play in the main thread the way I did in the QT post: You cannot play in the mainthread the way we did in the QT because we could discuss things without interference, including specific players, plot ploys/plans, share information, etc also free of scum.

Someone acting like I claimed to have 'Expertise": I have never claimed to be an expert, quite the opposite. I have pointed out that I am still learning the game, but I at least take into account what other players are possibly doing. It was one of the things I pointed out in my QT about SR--not being sure if she was playing off my rabble rousing or not.

The lying thing: I never said I wasn't in a neighborhood but some people could not let it go that they fell for a ruse that was not intended for them to begin with even when explained to them. I specifically cautioned RD & Ayes not to say they were not in a neighborhood to further my move because of the lying being bad for town. Nuance is lost on some people. Even when I explained my Day 1 get people talking by being abrasive move, nobody bought it so why bother discussing things with them?

Too many people just cannot play as a town team. They have no appreciation for strategy, tactics, sacrifice, etc. There is too much sitting on their hands with their noses in the air. The people who offer little to nothing should be the most suspicious in a game, but here they are the most protected. It is just bad for town game after game after game.

 

[R.D.]

The lying thing: I never said I wasn't in a neighborhood but some people could not let it go that they fell for a ruse that was not intended for them to begin with even when explained to them. I specifically cautioned RD & Ayes not to say they were not in a neighborhood to further my move because of the lying being bad for town. Nuance is lost on some people. Even when I explained my Day 1 get people talking by being abrasive move, nobody bought it so why bother discussing things with them?

Too many people just cannot play as a town team. They have no appreciation for strategy, tactics, sacrifice, etc. There is too much sitting on their hands with their noses in the air. The people who offer little to nothing should be the most suspicious in a game, but here they are the most protected. It is just bad for town game after game after game.

This is true, because it's an ongoing learning process for a lot of us. Others don't seem to care as long as they survive forgetting it's town V scum, not each man for himself.

 

[Mertex]

The lying thing: I never said I wasn't in a neighborhood but some people could not let it go that they fell for a ruse that was not intended for them to begin with even when explained to them. I specifically cautioned RD & Ayes not to say they were not in a neighborhood to further my move because of the lying being bad for town. Nuance is lost on some people. Even when I explained my Day 1 get people talking by being abrasive move, nobody bought it so why bother discussing things with them?

Too many people just cannot play as a town team. They have no appreciation for strategy, tactics, sacrifice, etc. There is too much sitting on their hands with their noses in the air. The people who offer little to nothing should be the most suspicious in a game, but here they are the most protected. It is just bad for town game after game after game.

This is true, because it's an ongoing learning process for a lot of us. Others don't seem to care as long as they survive forgetting it's town V scum, not each man for himself.

Exactly, but how do we get that across to players? It appears that after a few games, some still don't get it.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Here's the deal. It depends on your role. If you are scum, you better believe you will be trying to stay alive as long as possible. You will try to keep your team mates alive also. If you are a town PR, your best strategy is to try to stay alive so you can use your PR to help take out scum. If you are a VT, you should be willing to sacrifice yourself if necessary. However, that does not mean you should roll over and not defend yourself. A dead townie instead of a dead scum still hurts town. Play to your win condition. Like Wake says, fight the good fight and don't give up.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Second point, town unity. This is hugely important and not working here at USMB so far. Game 2 it was a disaster. Game 3 it was a split over mebelle-NL vs mislynch. As scum, I was perfectly happy with that. Town is concentrating on that and not me. One of the reason I took out Grandma is she's a unifier for town. And that's exactly what townies need to do to beat scum. Unify. The times town was able to do that made me nervous. So that's when scum will try to cause chaos. So these are things that have to be thought about going forward.

 

[sameech]

Second point, town unity. This is hugely important and not working here at USMB so far. Game 2 it was a disaster. Game 3 it was a split over mebelle-NL vs mislynch. As scum, I was perfectly happy with that. Town is concentrating on that and not me. One of the reason I took out Grandma is she's a unifier for town. And that's exactly what townies need to do to beat scum. Unify. The times town was able to do that made me nervous. So that's when scum will try to cause chaos. So these are things that have to be thought about going forward.

There are pluses and minuses. Town being too keen on jumping anyone but themselves is why things like the mislynches are easy to pull off IMO. what I sense is the lack of direction toward narrowing down suspects/analysis. The mebelle ML was hideous in that so many people jumped on it without even questioning SR's sketchy logic. That is part of why I was asking for people to stand on their own convictions--to get them thinking/analyzing instead of using others as a crutch. Sure there will be bad calls, but you can make good use of those bad calls if people are actually giving reasons of their own. If we even understood each other's thought process, it makes it possible to work in the same direction even if we disagree about tactics/conclusions.

 

[Wake]

It makes sense, change it up to avoid being read. I get that. But still over the top. Game related aggression would of been better.

That I understand, but there was quite a bit before that. Some players are very crappy. Shaitra was in that game, too, and noted the way that player was speaking to me when I had simply asked him questions. He was an ass without reason here and here. At times I respond to vitriolic trolling with silence, and other times I will respond with a bit in kind.

The rules on trolling at the main site are very lax, because the rules change from game mod to game mod. I had initially reported his trolling to the game mod and staff, but they did nothing, so if they did nothing against that, they will do nothing against this.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Yeah I had never lost until I came here either. There are some very bizarre interpersonal and ego-sensitive dynamics at this site that trump game strategy.

Very true but I think ego and personalities occur in this game everywhere for example here's what someone said to Wake in a game he's in, not out of line really:

Don't fucking kid yourself. Nobody's worth more than a literal 100% confirmed town result. Clears > reads, despite what your ego might lead you to think.

Wake responded with this, which was over the top:

IS THAT THE ANGRY SWAMP EUNUCH I'M HEARING AGAIN? Maybe you should ask your girlfriend to pull that swamp crab out of your ass with a trusty FORCEPS. With its bulky pincer no longer clutching your throbbing dark meat, I reckon you'll start speaking with some vestige of civility again.

it is beyond the level of flaming allowed IMO. Some examples:

The I should play in the main thread the way I did in the QT post: You cannot play in the mainthread the way we did in the QT because we could discuss things without interference, including specific players, plot ploys/plans, share information, etc also free of scum.

Someone acting like I claimed to have 'Expertise": I have never claimed to be an expert, quite the opposite. I have pointed out that I am still learning the game, but I at least take into account what other players are possibly doing. It was one of the things I pointed out in my QT about SR--not being sure if she was playing off my rabble rousing or not.

The lying thing: I never said I wasn't in a neighborhood but some people could not let it go that they fell for a ruse that was not intended for them to begin with even when explained to them. I specifically cautioned RD & Ayes not to say they were not in a neighborhood to further my move because of the lying being bad for town. Nuance is lost on some people. Even when I explained my Day 1 get people talking by being abrasive move, nobody bought it so why bother discussing things with them?

Too many people just cannot play as a town team. They have no appreciation for strategy, tactics, sacrifice, etc. There is too much sitting on their hands with their noses in the air. The people who offer little to nothing should be the most suspicious in a game, but here they are the most protected. It is just bad for town game after game after game.

The neighborhood thing was not the only thing you lied about. In one breath you are calling me scum for not stating if I was in Grandma's neighborhood, all the while making it sound as if you were not in a neighborhood, not to mention you told your neighborhood not to mention theirs. But, I'm scummy because I won't reveal my neighbors or neighborhood? Do you see the issue there? Hypocrisy much?

Your premise about Rosie's post was so far blown out of proportion it was not funny. The other issue is, Rosie's post was wrong, one of our neighbors had posted, I was not telling you such, since your behavior came off as scummy and not town. So, please don't sit there with your "Too many people just cannot play as a town team". Your play was highly anti-town.

 

[Wake]

Did you like the Neighborhood function?

I thought it was a neat twist.

 

[Wolfsister77]

The problem I had with the neighborhoods was there was 2 neighborhoods that were all town which basically made them masons that could talk 24/7. That with all the PR's that most everyone had, made it a hostile environment for a scum win. I do like the balance you put in with putting a redirector and a roleblocker in there and 4 scum which does make it much more balanced. I'm sure it isn't easy in a game that complex to balance everything. Still, IMO, seem weighted to town. But only slightly.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Did you like the Neighborhood function?

I thought it was a neat twist.

It was cool, I believe we could probably benefit from it and have a smaller arena to out possible scum.

The first night I tracked Rosie was because of a post she made there, stating "Scum was in all neighborhoods". I thought this was a slip on her part. I was wrong! LOL

But I thought it was cool having ideas to bounce off one another.

 

[sameech]

The neighborhood thing was not the only thing you lied about. In one breath you are calling me scum for not stating if I was in Grandma's neighborhood, all the while making it sound as if you were not in a neighborhood, not to mention you told your neighborhood not to mention theirs. But, I'm scummy because I won't reveal my neighbors or neighborhood? Do you see the issue there? Hypocrisy much?

Your premise about Rosie's post was so far blown out of proportion it was not funny. The other issue is, Rosie's post was wrong, one of our neighbors had posted, I was not telling you such, since your behavior came off as scummy and not town. So, please don't sit there with your "Too many people just cannot play as a town team". Your play was highly anti-town.

Never lied about being in a neighborhood, but thanks for proving my point. No matter how many times you say I said I wasn't in a neighborhood, you are wrong every time. Nobody in town knows anything but that which is in their role PM on Day 1, and they spend most of the game not knowing anything but that which they did except that which is objectively verifiable like votes, deaths, and mod provided info (though Wake has made the last part a bit sketchy). Your assumptions are going to keep killing town if you expect people to only state that which they "know" and qualify everything they say because they must bow down before your judgment and not exercise their own. What you call "hypocrisy" is that which I have learned is the best way to get the game moving.

 

[CaféAuLait]

The problem I had with the neighborhoods was there was 2 neighborhoods that were all town which basically made them masons that could talk 24/7. That with all the PR's that most everyone had, made it a hostile environment for a scum win. I do like the balance you put in with putting a redirector and a roleblocker in there and 4 scum which does make it much more balanced. I'm sure it isn't easy in a game that complex to balance everything. Still, IMO, seem weighted to town. But only slightly.

It was not easy. It was measured, and TBH no one really knew who was or was not scum. I asked questions and put up "reads" but they were not always my true reads in case I had scum in my neighborhood. It was not comfortable as it may seem, even if we all were town, we really did not know that.

 

[Wake]

At the main site Neighborhoods are seen as having little if any benefit in Town's favor.

As the game goes on and people start dying, paranoia starts to grow and erupt in them.

 

[Wolfsister77]

You know one of the problems I had playing town was figuring out who to trust. You aren't going to be as likely to listen to someone if you think they might be scum. I knew you were not Sameech but others were suspicious of you.

On the other side, as scum, I couldn't figure out how to post because I already knew who was who and had zero interest in sharing info. with town. And coming up with reads on who is town or scum is very difficult.

Both legitimate issues whether you are town or scum. I would love a civil discussion on play tactics and mafia theory.