Should Ukraine take the Ukraine-Russia War into Russia?

[zaangalewa]

Russia is in war. Who is in war will be attacked - with good luck only from enemies.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Rigby5]

I did not know that it is the official policy of the United States that no, the Ukraine-Russia war should be contained in Ukraine, even if Ukraine has or develops the ability to cross the border with troops, aircraft or missiles.



Now, my opinion is first and foremost that we should be staying out of the war in Europe, and should not spend another penny. Ukraine is not a NATO member. If Europe wants to help, fine. But if they can intervene without us, we need to reconsider how much foreign aid with give them.

But for some of the hawkish on Ukraine members of this forum, what do you think? It seems that by asking Ukraine not to take advantage of opportunities to fight back, we would only prolong the war.

Wrong.
The only way this war can possibly end is with the complete surrender by Kyiv.
So any attempt to expand the war instead, only delays its inevitable end.

Anyone who knows any history will tell you that there is no separate country of "the Ukraine".
It is and always has been the heart of Russia, with Kyiv being the historic capital of Russia.

Anyone helping the criminals in Kyiv should be punished.
It is Kyiv who started this war with horrendous treaty violations, atrocities, oil thefts, etc.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
The only way this war can possibly end is with the complete surrender by Kyiv.
So any attempt to expand the war instead, only delays its inevitable end.

Anyone who knows any history will tell you that there is no separate country of "the Ukraine".
It is and always has been the heart of Russia, with Kyiv being the historic capital of Russia.

Anyone helping the criminals in Kyiv should be punished.
It is Kyiv who started this war with horrendous treaty violations, atrocities, oil thefts, etc.

Wrong

It will end with a devasted and humiliated russian military force.
History proves you wrong

The criminal is putin .
Ukraien violated no treaties or theft or any crime which was the business of Russia

Your claims are fantasy

 

[Rigby5]

If the collective West and NATO are itching for a nuclear war with Russia....they will have it.

Better think twice.

Exactly.
Russia is paranoid, going way back to Napoleon's invasion, so is well prepared for a nuclear war they would easily win.
They have over twice the nuclear weapons we have, each one is many times more powerful than any of ours, and they have the best missiles in the world.

Anyone not understanding or familiar, just needs to look up who is building all the nuclear power plants in the world, and who launches the missiles for the international space station.
It is all Russian.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Exactly.
Russia is paranoid, going way back to Napoleon's invasion, so is well prepared for a nuclear war they would easily win.
They have over twice the nuclear weapons we have, each one is many times more powerful than any of ours, and they have the best missiles in the world.

Anyone not understanding or familiar, just needs to look up who is building all the nuclear power plants in the world, and who launches the missiles for the international space station.
It is all Russian.

They cannot win a neclear war. The can destroy other nations but only at the cost of their own dsestruction. They have no prperation to allow them to win a nuclear war.

They have only a slight numerical advantage in bombs over us which is irrelevant. Your claim of twice as many is a bald faced lie.

Their missiles are not superior by any metric.

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong

It will end with a devasted and humiliated russian military force.
History proves you wrong

The criminal is putin .
Ukraine violated no treaties or theft or any crime which was the business of Russia

Your claims are fantasy

How can anyone claim the 2014 Maidan revolt was not a paid coup by the US?
It clearly was.
And the previous government of the Ukraine, was legally and fairly elected on 2010, giving no legal justification for the illegal 2014 military coup.
Members of the new government in 2014 even illegally included some US citizens.

Obviously all the weapons being used against Russia are US made and likely launched by US personnel.
Those are illegal acts of war by the US, which will eventually have to be retaliated against, with nukes.

The Ukraine signed half a dozen treaties with Gorbachev, all of which contained a condition that "the Ukaine never join any alliance hostile to Russia".

Being on the border of Russia, Russia has the legal right to demand the Ukraine not join NATO, just as the US demanded Cuba remove those Russian nukes in 1962.

 

[Soupnazi630]

How can anyone claim the 2014 Maidan revolt was not a paid coup by the US?
It clearly was.
And the previous government of the Ukraine, was legally and fairly elected on 2010, giving no legal justification for the illegal 2014 military coup.
Members of the new government in 2014 even illegally included some US citizens.

Obviously all the weapons being used against Russia are US made and likely launched by US personnel.
Those are illegal acts of war by the US, which will eventually have to be retaliated against, with nukes.

The Ukraine signed half a dozen treaties with Gorbachev, all of which contained a condition that "the Ukaine never join any alliance hostile to Russia".

Being on the border of Russia, Russia has the legal right to demand the Ukraine not join NATO, just as the US demanded Cuba remove those Russian nukes in 1962.

No the so called coup was not paid by the US

It is not obvious and you do NOT have a fucking shred of evidence that it was

ALl intelligent people KNOW THIS


We are allowed to give them weapons to use and they are capable of launching them without us''

Russia has no right to make such demands.


You are a fucking liar

They SIGNED NO SUCH TREATY

Post a link to the speicific treaty or it proves you are a liar and sack of trash

 

[Rigby5]

They cannot win a neclear war. The can destroy other nations but only at the cost of their own dsestruction. They have no prperation to allow them to win a nuclear war.

They have only a slight numerical advantage in bombs over us which is irrelevant. Your claim of twice as many is a bald faced lie.

Their missiles are not superior by any metric.

Wrong.
Russia does not rely on computers, cellphones, the internet, etc., which are all easily and quickly destroyed by just 3 airburst EMPs.
Not only does Russia have twice the number of nuclear weapons, but each one is about 4 times the power of the ones made by the US.
The destruction in the US would be about 10 times greater than the destruction in Russia, and Russia would quickly bounce back since they have shielded all their sensitive technology.
In contrast, the US would never regain electrical power and be forever in the Dark Ages, from then on.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
Russia does not rely on computers, cellphones, the internet, etc., which are all easily and quickly destroyed by just 3 airburst EMPs.
Not only does Russia have twice the number of nuclear weapons, but each one is about 4 times the power of the ones made by the US.
The destruction in the US would be about 10 times greater than the destruction in Russia, and Russia would quickly bounce back since they have shielded all their sensitive technology.
In contrast, the US would never regain electrical power and be forever in the Dark Ages, from then on.

Yes they do rely on computers cellophones etc.

They DO Not have twice the number of bombs dumbass.

They would be utterly destroyed if they launched

 

[Rigby5]

No the so called coup was not paid by the US

It is not obvious and you do NOT have a fucking shred of evidence that it was

ALl intelligent people KNOW THIS


We are allowed to give them weapons to use and they are capable of launching them without us''

Russia has no right to make such demands.


You are a fucking liar

They SIGNED NO SUCH TREATY

Post a link to the speicific treaty or it proves you are a liar and sack of trash

Russia is perfectly within its rights to make demands on the Ukraine, since the Ukraine owes Moscow billions for all the power plants, dams, roads, bridges, etc., that is paid for in the Ukraine.
The Ukraine is also legally, historically, and ethnically part of Russia.
Poland gave up all rights in 1650, for a tidy sum of money.

The US signed the 1945 UN charter, which makes it illegal to arm belligerents like Kyiv.
Kyiv is in blatant treaty violation, so is criminal.

There are dozens of treaties between the Ukraine and Russia, all of which are secret.
But there is not a single participating politician who did not admit that it would be criminal for the Ukraine to try to join NATO.

{...
In February 1990, U.S. Secretary of State James Baker assured Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that if Germany remained part of NATO after reunification and if the United States “maintained a presence” in that country, “there would be no extension” of NATO’s jurisdiction “one inch to the east.” However, NATO was later expanded to include not just the USSR’s former allies in Eastern Europe but even some former Soviet republics as well, leading many Russians to claim that the NATO powers were reneging on promises that Baker and other high western officials had made as the Cold War was ending. Declassified documents show that Baker’s assurance was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 19912.
...}

 

[Soupnazi630]

Russia is perfectly within its rights to make demands on the Ukraine, since the Ukraine owes Moscow billions for all the power plants, dams, roads, bridges, etc., that is paid for in the Ukraine.
The Ukraine is also legally, historically, and ethnically part of Russia.
Poland gave up all rights in 1650, for a tidy sum of money.

The US signed the 1945 UN charter, which makes it illegal to arm belligerents like Kyiv.
Kyiv is in blatant treaty violation, so is criminal.

There are dozens of treaties between the Ukraine and Russia, all of which are secret.
But there is not a single participating politician who did not admit that it would be criminal for the Ukraine to try to join NATO.

{...
In February 1990, U.S. Secretary of State James Baker assured Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that if Germany remained part of NATO after reunification and if the United States “maintained a presence” in that country, “there would be no extension” of NATO’s jurisdiction “one inch to the east.” However, NATO was later expanded to include not just the USSR’s former allies in Eastern Europe but even some former Soviet republics as well, leading many Russians to claim that the NATO powers were reneging on promises that Baker and other high western officials had made as the Cold War was ending. Declassified documents show that Baker’s assurance was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 19912.
...}

They have no right to make demands on a foreign nation.

The Ukraien is NOT the belligerent.


There is no such thing as a secret treaty you dumbass. Treaties are treagties because they are openly signed and published for the world to see

An assurance is not a treaty

every time you claim Ukrasine violated a treaty you are openly lying through your teeth.

They violalted NO TREATY

 

[Rigby5]

Yes they do rely on computers cellophones etc.

They DO Not have twice the number of bombs dumbass.

They would be utterly destroyed if they launched

Russia deliberately shielded and widely spaced out all their important stuff.
The US has nothing that would survive a simple attack with just 3 airborn EMPs spaced over the US.
We would lose almost all our semiconductors, even if they were not powered up.
We could then NEVER recover, and would be broken up by other colonial imperialists, and even Canada and Mexico would reclaim parts of the US.

And it really does not matter if Russia were also destroyed or not.
If it looks at all like they might possibly lose in the Ukraine, then their only option is to attack the US as quickly as possible, as any delay would make things even worse for them.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Russia deliberately shielded and widely spaced out all their important stuff.
The US has nothing that would survive a simple attack with just 3 airborn EMPs spaced over the US.
We would lose almost all our semiconductors, even if they were not powered up.
We could then NEVER recover, and would be broken up by other colonial imperialists, and even Canada and Mexico would reclaim parts of the US.

And it really does not matter if Russia were also destroyed or not.
If it looks at all like they might possibly lose in the Ukraine, then their only option is to attack the US as quickly as possible, as any delay would make things even worse for them.

No they did not

Russia is just as dependant on modern electronics as us
Three airboen EMPs would do little damage.

The russians would be destroyed entirely

They know they cannot win

 

[Rocko]

Ukraine should focus regaining lost territory. I only say that because Russia has nukes.

 

[Rigby5]

Yes they do rely on computers cellophones etc.

Have you ever seen a Russian computer or cellphone.
They are huge, and well shielded from any EMP pulse we might try to create.
Theirs will remain functional, while ours will not.
When you do not tiny 5 to 10 nanometer die size chips like we do, then they can survive a nuclear EMP.
Russia's chips are 10 times the die size of ours, so will not be burned out nearly as easily.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Have you ever seen a Russian computer or cellphone.
They are huge, and well shielded from any EMP pulse we might try to create.
Theirs will remain functional, while ours will not.
When you do not tiny 5 to 10 nanometer die size chips like we do, then they can survive a nuclear EMP.
Russia's chips are 10 times the die size of ours, so will not be burned out nearly as easily.

Yes and no they are not shielded as you claom they are just like ours you moron

They will suffer the exact same catostrophic damage we would.

Size is IRRELEVANT in shielding chips. You do not SHIELD them by making them bigger

You really are ignorant as hell

 

[Rigby5]

No they did not

Russia is just as dependant on modern electronics as us
Three airboen EMPs would do little damage.

The russians would be destroyed entirely

They know they cannot win

Wrong.
There is not a single scientist who estimates any US microchip made in the last 20 years would survive an attack with just 3 airburst, high altitude EMPs over the US.

Yet all the Russian microchips use about a 10 times larger and older technology, which would easily withstand the worst possible EMP attack.
Russian devices are also much better shielded with larger and heavier metal cases that we have replaced with light plastic that does not shield out EMPs.

It does not at all matter if Russia could "win" or not, but that if they lose in the Ukraine, then the US will attack them first. So then they have no choice but to launch first. It is always better to launch first then to let the enemy launch first.

 

[Rigby5]

Ukraine should focus regaining lost territory. I only say that because Russia has nukes.

It is historic and ethnic Russian territory that the ethnic Polish traitors in Kyiv should leave alone.
And Kyiv will get nuked is they ever try to "regain lost territory".

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
There is not a single scientist who estimates any US microchip made in the last 20 years would survive an attack with just 3 airburst, high altitude EMPs over the US.

Yet all the Russian microchips use about a 10 times larger and older technology, which would easily withstand the worst possible EMP attack.
Russian devices are also much better shielded with larger and heavier metal cases that we have replaced with light plastic that does not shield out EMPs.

It does not at all matter if Russia could "win" or not, but that if they lose in the Ukraine, then the US will attack them first. So then they have no choice but to launch first. It is always better to launch first then to let the enemy launch first.

No one said it would survivie a nuclear attack

On the other hand no scientist on earth claims that the russians would survive.

Russian technology is on par with ours and will not survivie nuclear war you moron.

Their infrastructure is not shielded as yoiu claim


It matters because they know they cannjot risk nuclear war as they would be destroyed,