should the rich be forced to pay more so us in the middle class can pay less?

[Steelplate]

Nope. class warfare is never the right thing to dew. It's a leftist thang though.

That's not true is it? Class warfare is fine and dandy when it's a One sided affair with your side attacking the poor and the Middle Class. When the poor and middle class fight back...then it's a bad thing.

Exactly. The creeps are fine moving 14,000 US factories overseas and making US manufacturing go from 28% of the economy to 12%, that's fine. Then when the folks can't buy as much in their stores, which is now 70% of the US economy, they whine and carry on.

Hint, paying China to manufacture goods, and then borrow $0.41 of every dollar spent (from China) is a sure way to bankruptcy. Wall Street needs to find a way to bring back US manufacturing, or the US will be Greece by 2030. Besides, those who OWN 99% of everything should pay more taxes than the workers scraping by.

Wall Street will never do it on their own. Then they have the propaganda machine brainwashing people with their "it's you're own fault you are poor" rhetoric. It's up to government to do it... We know it, they know it.... that's why they are fighting so hard with their anti-government propaganda.

 

[RDD_1210]

I'm not sure I follow you but.... As far as I'm concerned targeting one to benefit another is nothing but devisive.

Were the rates they paid before Bush divisive?

We are looking at massive debt since the Bush tax cuts with those cuts adding $2 trillion to our deficit. How is acknowledging you made a mistake divisive?

Tax cuts don't add to the deficit, spending does... Bush spent on wars and welfare programs, so has Obama, more in fact... You can't tax your way out of this, you have to cut.

Tax breaks weaken the ability to reduce the deficit.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

well.... In all honesty... I don't subscribe to the question... especially since the thread title was changed from "them pay more so I pay less". Because it isn't about me.

Lastly... Even with the title changed, I don't subscribe to it. I'm fine with paying what I pay. I don't even mind letting ALL the Bush cuts expire.... In fact, I WANT them all to expire.

What I don't want is our services cut. I want Welfare reformed so that the people who find themselves on those programs want to and are empowered to get off of them... but the business community has to do their part too... by providing good paying jobs for workers. I want SS to remain intact. I want Medicare replaced by a National Health Care system so that workers and Small Business doesn't have to worry about providing it for themselves/their employees. I want educational reform so that young people don't have to start their lives $100k or so in debt because they decided to get a meaningful education.

I want people who Contribute to Society to live in relative comfort.... no matter what they do in Society. Sure, demand plays a part... but there is no reason that a full time worker(even a janitor or ditch digger) has to live in abject poverty because "anyone can do it". Perhaps that's all that janitor or ditch digger can do... maybe he/she's not the brightest bulb in the box. Maybe their strength of their back is their only asset. I don't agree that they should be relegated to a 2nd class citizenship if they are contributing.

Liar. LIAR !

I have NEVER changed a thread title. I don't even know how. I thought only members who contribute get such options with their threads.

Point being nothing has been changed. You just don't have the balls to vote.

 

[Steelplate]

That's not true is it? Class warfare is fine and dandy when it's a One sided affair with your side attacking the poor and the Middle Class. When the poor and middle class fight back...then it's a bad thing.

Exactly. The creeps are fine moving 14,000 US factories overseas and making US manufacturing go from 28% of the economy to 12%, that's fine. Then when the folks can't buy as much in their stores, which is now 70% of the US economy, they whine and carry on.

Hint, paying China to manufacture goods, and then borrow $0.41 of every dollar spent (from China) is a sure way to bankruptcy. Wall Street needs to find a way to bring back US manufacturing, or the US will be Greece by 2030. Besides, those who OWN 99% of everything should pay more taxes than the workers scraping by.

My services are 100% American as are my employees and customers. You sir can fuck off with your garbage talking points.

No one was targeting you personally, were they? So perhaps it's YOU that should fuck off. You have the nerve to call issues "talking points" when they are coming from people you disagree with, but you have no problem acting all butt sore with the bullshit that "the left are coming after you" when the conversation was exclusively about the traitorous outsourcing of this country's workforce.

 

[kyzr]

That's not true is it? Class warfare is fine and dandy when it's a One sided affair with your side attacking the poor and the Middle Class. When the poor and middle class fight back...then it's a bad thing.

Exactly. The creeps are fine moving 14,000 US factories overseas and making US manufacturing go from 28% of the economy to 12%, that's fine. Then when the folks can't buy as much in their stores, which is now 70% of the US economy, they whine and carry on.

Hint, paying China to manufacture goods, and then borrow $0.41 of every dollar spent (from China) is a sure way to bankruptcy. Wall Street needs to find a way to bring back US manufacturing, or the US will be Greece by 2030. Besides, those who OWN 99% of everything should pay more taxes than the workers scraping by.

My services are 100% American as are my employees and customers. You sir can fuck off with your garbage talking points.

Don't know how to Google? Can't fact-check? Who cares about your tiny operation, when we are debating the US economy. US manufacturing is declining, and if it isn't fixed the US will go bankrupt. If you can't grasp that, I can't fix "stupid".
Manufacturing: Employment Falls to Record Lows, But Productivity Soars - Seeking Alpha

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Were the rates they paid before Bush divisive?

We are looking at massive debt since the Bush tax cuts with those cuts adding $2 trillion to our deficit. How is acknowledging you made a mistake divisive?

Tax cuts don't add to the deficit, spending does... Bush spent on wars and welfare programs, so has Obama, more in fact... You can't tax your way out of this, you have to cut.

Tax breaks weaken the ability to reduce the deficit.

I think this is the first time you and I have been on the same wavelength. You are right but your leaving out one HUGE part. Regardless of the tax increases or decreases congress ALWAYS spends more and more. Our debt is all the proof you need.

 

[Steelplate]

well.... In all honesty... I don't subscribe to the question... especially since the thread title was changed from "them pay more so I pay less". Because it isn't about me.

Lastly... Even with the title changed, I don't subscribe to it. I'm fine with paying what I pay. I don't even mind letting ALL the Bush cuts expire.... In fact, I WANT them all to expire.

What I don't want is our services cut. I want Welfare reformed so that the people who find themselves on those programs want to and are empowered to get off of them... but the business community has to do their part too... by providing good paying jobs for workers. I want SS to remain intact. I want Medicare replaced by a National Health Care system so that workers and Small Business doesn't have to worry about providing it for themselves/their employees. I want educational reform so that young people don't have to start their lives $100k or so in debt because they decided to get a meaningful education.

I want people who Contribute to Society to live in relative comfort.... no matter what they do in Society. Sure, demand plays a part... but there is no reason that a full time worker(even a janitor or ditch digger) has to live in abject poverty because "anyone can do it". Perhaps that's all that janitor or ditch digger can do... maybe he/she's not the brightest bulb in the box. Maybe their strength of their back is their only asset. I don't agree that they should be relegated to a 2nd class citizenship if they are contributing.

Liar. LIAR !

I have NEVER changed a thread title. I don't even know how. I thought only members who contribute get such options with their threads.

Point being nothing has been changed. You just don't have the balls to vote.

Oh, I stand Corrected... the poll itself has the title that I described... I apologize.

In fact, I did vote... I voted no... but not for the same reason you did. I voted no... because I don't want to pay less... neither do most of us. We have no problem paying our fair share. Before you even start... my wife and I earn about $100k/year.... We do pay our fair share. It's the wealthy elite that want all of these breaks and their investment income virtually ignored... in short, they don't want to pay their fair share.

 

[Full-Auto]

Seems like pure theft to me. What say you?

Edit: This poll is in relation to the Democratic proposal in the Senate to pay for a middle class tax cut with a surcharge on the rich. Since most of us probably aren't rich I think I worded the poll correctly as most of us would benefit from this proposal.

Take note....


The left can not consider treating you equally until seeing the contents of your wallet.

 

[Steelplate]

Tax cuts don't add to the deficit, spending does... Bush spent on wars and welfare programs, so has Obama, more in fact... You can't tax your way out of this, you have to cut.

Tax breaks weaken the ability to reduce the deficit.

I think this is the first time you and I have been on the same wavelength. You are right but your leaving out one HUGE part. Regardless of the tax increases or decreases congress ALWAYS spends more and more. Our debt is all the proof you need.

Why does Congress always spend more? it certainly isn't because of the poor... no, Congress always spends more because they are bought by powerful interests that got them elected... once they are in office... the chips get called in.

I know... it's much easier to blame poor people, a few million Mexicans who pay into the system and get nothing out of it(except for emergency room health care), and retirees.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I see only one has the nerve to openly stand behind his rhetoric.

Has anyone else notified that almost all of "Grampa's" posts are just flat out WRONG?

Every single person who has commented on your so-called "poll" has "openly" registered an opinion. Your poll is not a poll. Your poll is, in and of itself, an opinion.

I suspect you believe that what is being discussed is INCOME tax. Right? Isn't that what you think you're preaching about?

Read the tax code. Its not about INCOME tax. It never has been. NO ONE is saying the wealthiest should pay a higher INCOME tax.

Wealth is taxed at a much lower rate than income. That means, if you can afford to, you can hide WEALTH in all sorts of places, pay your INCOME tax on a very tiny percentage of your money and basically get off Scott free.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Exactly. The creeps are fine moving 14,000 US factories overseas and making US manufacturing go from 28% of the economy to 12%, that's fine. Then when the folks can't buy as much in their stores, which is now 70% of the US economy, they whine and carry on.

Hint, paying China to manufacture goods, and then borrow $0.41 of every dollar spent (from China) is a sure way to bankruptcy. Wall Street needs to find a way to bring back US manufacturing, or the US will be Greece by 2030. Besides, those who OWN 99% of everything should pay more taxes than the workers scraping by.

My services are 100% American as are my employees and customers. You sir can fuck off with your garbage talking points.

Don't know how to Google? Can't fact-check? Who cares about your tiny operation, when we are debating the US economy. US manufacturing is declining, and if it isn't fixed the US will go bankrupt. If you can't grasp that, I can't fix "stupid".
Manufacturing: Employment Falls to Record Lows, But Productivity Soars - Seeking Alpha

you and steelplate are so fucking ignorant. Who cares about my tiny operation? The vast majority of Americans you nitwit. At my highpoint I had 9 crews each consisting of about 3 to 4 employees. On top of that I employ through my services many other service professionals and suppliers.

MY COMPANY AND OTHERS LIKE ME SUPPORT THE CORE OF THIS COUNTRY. But you too fucking stuck on your god damn talking points to see that. And as far as big corporations leaving...... Fucking tax me at those ridiculous rates and watch me sell out or go under.

Fucking uninformed idiots. It says so on this piece of paper so it must be accurate?! Morons

Real life applications don't fit in your little liberal boxes you've built.

 

[Charles_Main]

Seems like pure theft to me. What say you?

Edit: This poll is in relation to the Democratic proposal in the Senate to pay for a middle class tax cut with a surcharge on the rich. Since most of us probably aren't rich I think I worded the poll correctly as most of us would benefit from this proposal.

Because Them Paying 80% of the entire Federal Income Tax Burden is no enough?

 

[Steelplate]

My services are 100% American as are my employees and customers. You sir can fuck off with your garbage talking points.

Don't know how to Google? Can't fact-check? Who cares about your tiny operation, when we are debating the US economy. US manufacturing is declining, and if it isn't fixed the US will go bankrupt. If you can't grasp that, I can't fix "stupid".
Manufacturing: Employment Falls to Record Lows, But Productivity Soars - Seeking Alpha

you and steelplate are so fucking ignorant. Who cares about my tiny operation? The vast majority of Americans you nitwit. At my highpoint I had 9 crews each consisting of about 3 to 4 employees. On top of that I employ through my services many other service professionals and suppliers.

MY COMPANY AND OTHERS LIKE ME SUPPORT THE CORE OF THIS COUNTRY. But you too fucking stuck on your god damn talking points to see that. And as far as big corporations leaving...... Fucking tax me at those ridiculous rates and watch me sell out or go under.

Fucking uninformed idiots. It says so on this piece of paper so it must be accurate?! Morons

Real life applications don't fit in your little liberal boxes you've built.

No... you're too fucking stupid to realize that things like health care are prohibiting your small business from becoming stronger. Imagine if... for the cost of a percentage point or two, that you didn't have to pay for your employees' health insurance(if you do) and you could either use that extra money to expand your business, pay your workers a little more, or just plain hoard it.

BTW... what ridiculous rates? The only thing I've seen so far is to let the Bush Tax cuts expire. if 4% on your personal income is going to force you to sell out or fold... perhaps it's your business model that is the problem.

EDIT: furthermore... what's the difference between some "liberals" taxing you a little more, or you trying to fuck me out of my job, my pension and the SS and Medicare System that I've been paying into for 32 years? Fuck off.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Seems like pure theft to me. What say you?

Edit: This poll is in relation to the Democratic proposal in the Senate to pay for a middle class tax cut with a surcharge on the rich. Since most of us probably aren't rich I think I worded the poll correctly as most of us would benefit from this proposal.

Take note....


The left can not consider treating you equally until seeing the contents of your wallet.

WTF?

Try to remember that its the RIGHT who is stealing us all blind.

Take notes, if you have to.

 

[Full-Auto]

Seems like pure theft to me. What say you?

Edit: This poll is in relation to the Democratic proposal in the Senate to pay for a middle class tax cut with a surcharge on the rich. Since most of us probably aren't rich I think I worded the poll correctly as most of us would benefit from this proposal.

Take note....


The left can not consider treating you equally until seeing the contents of your wallet.

WTF?

Try to remember that its the RIGHT who is stealing us all blind.

Take notes, if you have to.

The right just gave away a half billion in green bankruptcy?

The right awarded another half billion contract on a no bid to a big donor for flu vaccine?

The right signed into law putting SS money in the general fund?


You take notes.

 

[Steelplate]

Oh... BTW... The GOP's Proposal to pay for the FICA Tax holiday???? An extension of three years on Federal workers salaries that were already frozen by Obama for two years... so... let's see that's 5 years of more stagnant wages for a huge number of people who need the break as opposed to (I think) a one time surcharge of 3.5% on PERSONAL Incomes over $1M.

Cry me a fuckin' river.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Don't know how to Google? Can't fact-check? Who cares about your tiny operation, when we are debating the US economy. US manufacturing is declining, and if it isn't fixed the US will go bankrupt. If you can't grasp that, I can't fix "stupid".
Manufacturing: Employment Falls to Record Lows, But Productivity Soars - Seeking Alpha

you and steelplate are so fucking ignorant. Who cares about my tiny operation? The vast majority of Americans you nitwit. At my highpoint I had 9 crews each consisting of about 3 to 4 employees. On top of that I employ through my services many other service professionals and suppliers.

MY COMPANY AND OTHERS LIKE ME SUPPORT THE CORE OF THIS COUNTRY. But you too fucking stuck on your god damn talking points to see that. And as far as big corporations leaving...... Fucking tax me at those ridiculous rates and watch me sell out or go under.

Fucking uninformed idiots. It says so on this piece of paper so it must be accurate?! Morons

Real life applications don't fit in your little liberal boxes you've built.

No... you're too fucking stupid to realize that things like health care are prohibiting your small business from becoming stronger. Imagine if... for the cost of a percentage point or two, that you didn't have to pay for your employees' health insurance(if you do) and you could either use that extra money to expand your business, pay your workers a little more, or just plain hoard it.

BTW... what ridiculous rates? The only thing I've seen so far is to let the Bush Tax cuts expire. if 4% on your personal income is going to force you to sell out or fold... perhaps it's your business model that is the problem.

EDIT: furthermore... what's the difference between some "liberals" taxing you a little more, or you trying to fuck me out of my job, my pension and the SS and Medicare System that I've been paying into for 32 years? Fuck off.

Insurance benefits are gone as Obama care has driven the premiums through the roof. Wanna hear one better than that? Most of my employees are also gone thanks to Obama not being able to handle this crisis correctly. Two fucking years he whored out over healthcare. Meanwhile small businesses like mine and the employees they employed are gone. But for fucks sake let's carry on and on about your retirement that will still be there for you despite all the small businesses and countless millions that have nothing now because of blind ideology.

Idiot

 

[Full-Auto]

you and steelplate are so fucking ignorant. Who cares about my tiny operation? The vast majority of Americans you nitwit. At my highpoint I had 9 crews each consisting of about 3 to 4 employees. On top of that I employ through my services many other service professionals and suppliers.

MY COMPANY AND OTHERS LIKE ME SUPPORT THE CORE OF THIS COUNTRY. But you too fucking stuck on your god damn talking points to see that. And as far as big corporations leaving...... Fucking tax me at those ridiculous rates and watch me sell out or go under.

Fucking uninformed idiots. It says so on this piece of paper so it must be accurate?! Morons

Real life applications don't fit in your little liberal boxes you've built.

No... you're too fucking stupid to realize that things like health care are prohibiting your small business from becoming stronger. Imagine if... for the cost of a percentage point or two, that you didn't have to pay for your employees' health insurance(if you do) and you could either use that extra money to expand your business, pay your workers a little more, or just plain hoard it.

BTW... what ridiculous rates? The only thing I've seen so far is to let the Bush Tax cuts expire. if 4% on your personal income is going to force you to sell out or fold... perhaps it's your business model that is the problem.

EDIT: furthermore... what's the difference between some "liberals" taxing you a little more, or you trying to fuck me out of my job, my pension and the SS and Medicare System that I've been paying into for 32 years? Fuck off.

Insurance benefits are gone as Obama care has driven the premiums through the roof. Wanna hear one better than that? Most of my employees are also gone thanks to Obama not being able to handle this crisis correctly. Two fucking years he whored out over healthcare. Meanwhile small businesses like mine and the employees they employed are gone. But for fucks sake let's carry on and on about your retirement that will still be there for you despite all the small businesses and countless millions that have nothing now because of blind ideology.

Idiot

 

[Steelplate]

you and steelplate are so fucking ignorant. Who cares about my tiny operation? The vast majority of Americans you nitwit. At my highpoint I had 9 crews each consisting of about 3 to 4 employees. On top of that I employ through my services many other service professionals and suppliers.

MY COMPANY AND OTHERS LIKE ME SUPPORT THE CORE OF THIS COUNTRY. But you too fucking stuck on your god damn talking points to see that. And as far as big corporations leaving...... Fucking tax me at those ridiculous rates and watch me sell out or go under.

Fucking uninformed idiots. It says so on this piece of paper so it must be accurate?! Morons

Real life applications don't fit in your little liberal boxes you've built.

No... you're too fucking stupid to realize that things like health care are prohibiting your small business from becoming stronger. Imagine if... for the cost of a percentage point or two, that you didn't have to pay for your employees' health insurance(if you do) and you could either use that extra money to expand your business, pay your workers a little more, or just plain hoard it.

BTW... what ridiculous rates? The only thing I've seen so far is to let the Bush Tax cuts expire. if 4% on your personal income is going to force you to sell out or fold... perhaps it's your business model that is the problem.

EDIT: furthermore... what's the difference between some "liberals" taxing you a little more, or you trying to fuck me out of my job, my pension and the SS and Medicare System that I've been paying into for 32 years? Fuck off.

Insurance benefits are gone as Obama care has driven the premiums through the roof. Wanna hear one better than that? Most of my employees are also gone thanks to Obama not being able to handle this crisis correctly. Two fucking years he whored out over healthcare. Meanwhile small businesses like mine and the employees they employed are gone. But for fucks sake let's carry on and on about your retirement that will still be there for you despite all the small businesses and countless millions that have nothing now because of blind ideology.

Idiot

That's because your blind ideology caused the idea of a public option to go out the window... and you call me an idiot....You shot yourself in the foot because Rush Limbaugh told you that you'd be a commie if you were for it.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

No... you're too fucking stupid to realize that things like health care are prohibiting your small business from becoming stronger. Imagine if... for the cost of a percentage point or two, that you didn't have to pay for your employees' health insurance(if you do) and you could either use that extra money to expand your business, pay your workers a little more, or just plain hoard it.

BTW... what ridiculous rates? The only thing I've seen so far is to let the Bush Tax cuts expire. if 4% on your personal income is going to force you to sell out or fold... perhaps it's your business model that is the problem.

EDIT: furthermore... what's the difference between some "liberals" taxing you a little more, or you trying to fuck me out of my job, my pension and the SS and Medicare System that I've been paying into for 32 years? Fuck off.

Insurance benefits are gone as Obama care has driven the premiums through the roof. Wanna hear one better than that? Most of my employees are also gone thanks to Obama not being able to handle this crisis correctly. Two fucking years he whored out over healthcare. Meanwhile small businesses like mine and the employees they employed are gone. But for fucks sake let's carry on and on about your retirement that will still be there for you despite all the small businesses and countless millions that have nothing now because of blind ideology.

Idiot

That's because your blind ideology caused the idea of a public option to go out the window... and you call me an idiot....You shot yourself in the foot because Rush Limbaugh told you that you'd be a commie if you were for it.

News flash for the logic impaired.

I DIDN'T HAVE A VOTE

my opinion means nill. But I certainly deal with the outcomes.