Should Ichiro make the baseball HOF?

[ShootSpeeders]

If you're looking at everything, the list of all-time non-pitchers should start with:
Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron

No: Babe Ruth and Ted Williams.

Maybe. Ted was a better hitter than hank but hank was a better fielder and baserunner.

 

[Jarlaxle]

[Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

No, he isn't. (30th in batting average, 22nd in OBP, 17th in slugging)

Exactly. That combination of hitting puts stan in the top 5 in my book.

Then you are a moron. (Not that THAT is news.)

 

[rightwinger]

.293 and little or no power is not a "superb" hitter.

.293 lifetime is not too shabby when you steal 900 bases

Base-stealing is part of offense but not part of hitting. THINK

Part of total bases

 

[Jarlaxle]

.293 and little or no power is not a "superb" hitter.

.293 lifetime is not too shabby when you steal 900 bases

Base-stealing is part of offense but not part of hitting. THINK

Part of total bases

No, that is wrong.

 

[rightwinger]

.293 and little or no power is not a "superb" hitter.

.293 lifetime is not too shabby when you steal 900 bases

Base-stealing is part of offense but not part of hitting. THINK

Part of total bases

No, that is wrong.

Still is

 

[Jarlaxle]

Still is

No, it is not. Stolen bases do NOT count for total bases.

 

[rightwinger]

Still is

No, it is not. Stolen bases do NOT count for total bases.

Still is a total base

Not my fault baseball doesn't know how to collect statistics.....they even invented the save and WAR

 

[Jarlaxle]

Continuing to regurgitate an incorrect statement does not make it correct, only annoying.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

No, it is not. Stolen bases do NOT count for total bases.

Still is a total base

Not my fault baseball doesn't know how to collect statistics.....they even invented the save and WAR

So YOU count a stolen base as part of total bases but no one else does.

I agree the save stat is a joke but WAR is pretty good. The big flaw with war is deciding how many points a fielding position is worth. Everyone agrees SS is worth more that 1B but how much more.? No good way to answer that and the way it's done now is too arbitrary.

 

[Synthaholic]

Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

List your top 5 hitters. Are you talking strictly batting averages?

Batting average??? No way. I look at everything. My list is ---ruth williams gehrig bonds musial. Maybe i should put cobb in there and make stan number 6. Hate to leave out hornsby but injuries cut short his career.

You included one Black guy. Baby steps, I guess.

You left out Hank Aaron. Ernie Banks. For pure hitters, Tony Gwynn. Rod Carew. Wade Boggs.

If you're looking at everything, the list of all-time non-pitchers should start with:

Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron

No: Babe Ruth and Ted Williams.

It's your right as an American to be wrong, and your duty as a Republican.

 

[Synthaholic]

[Suzy does compare well to rose. Both men had good BA and little power. Musial is something else. Far far above either man as a hitter. Stan is one of the top 5 hitters of all time.

No, he isn't. (30th in batting average, 22nd in OBP, 17th in slugging)

Exactly. That combination of hitting puts stan in the top 5 in my book.

Plus, he's White.

 

[Synthaholic]

If you're looking at everything, the list of all-time non-pitchers should start with:
Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron

No: Babe Ruth and Ted Williams.

Maybe. Ted was a better hitter than hank but hank was a better fielder and baserunner.

WAY better fielder. And I don't think anyone can make the argument that Williams was a better offensive player than Henry Aaron.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

WAY better fielder. And I don't think anyone can make the argument that Williams was a better offensive player than Henry Aaron.

Are you serious.? Hanks ba/obp/sa were great but Ted's were super human. Hank's better baserunning cannot make up for the huge difference at the plate.

 

[Synthaholic]

STILL the all-time RBI leader.

STILL the all-time Total Base leader.

STILL the legitimate all-time Home Run leader.

 

[Lewdog]

STILL the all-time RBI leader.

STILL the all-time Total Base leader.

STILL the legitimate all-time Home Run leader.

View attachment 171623

Ted Williams missed some of his prime years because he served in the war.

 

[Synthaholic]

Hanks ba/obp/sa were great but Ted's were super human.

After you've spent the entire thread arguing that batting average and all the old way of measuring is obsolete.

 

[Synthaholic]

STILL the all-time RBI leader.

STILL the all-time Total Base leader.

STILL the legitimate all-time Home Run leader.

View attachment 171623

Ted Williams missed some of his prime years because he served in the war.

Ok. Sorry, but he doesn't get credited with offensive stats he never compiled.

ETA: Aaron also played in the most competitive era of MLB. And he did it while having to deal with racism, and sometimes staying in substandard hotels while his White teammates stayed in every city's best hotels.

 

[Jarlaxle]

If you're looking at everything, the list of all-time non-pitchers should start with:
Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron

No: Babe Ruth and Ted Williams.

Maybe. Ted was a better hitter than hank but hank was a better fielder and baserunner.

WAY better fielder. And I don't think anyone can make the argument that Williams was a better offensive player than Henry Aaron.

Actually, that is quite a simple case to make, and I just realized that it isn't even close. Williams has a better batting average (40 points, despite a sacrifice fly being counted as an at-bat for most of his career), better OBP (a staggering 108 points, best in baseball history), higher slugging percentage (80 points), and better seasonal averages in just about every category. (Notably, home runs per 162 games are identical, at 37.)

Compared to Aaron, Ted Williams hit for better average, got on base A LOT more, batted in more runs per game, walked TWICE as often while not striking out as much, and has more total bases per season. Also note: age 41 Aaron was stumbling to a .234 average. At age 41, Ted Williams hit .316 with a 1.096 OPS. (Which is better than Aaron's best OPS.) Ted Williams was head and shoulders superior to Henry Aaron.

 

[Jarlaxle]

It's your right as an American to be wrong, and your duty as a Republican.

It is your right to be stupid...but you abuse that right.

 

[Jarlaxle]

STILL the all-time RBI leader.

STILL the all-time Total Base leader.

STILL the legitimate all-time Home Run leader.

View attachment 171623

Ted Williams missed some of his prime years because he served in the war.

Most of five seasons.