Shakira enters Arizona immigration fight

[Navy1960]

You know I have always felt that when somone chooses to raise thier voice in the national discussion even though I may disagree with that person, they are participating in one of the highest forms of civil participation and as such can dissagree with one another and still love their nation equally and treat one another in a like fashion. I am boosted in the knowledge that these days many disagree on issues thats true, but they all share a deep love for this nation and their mere presence here shows that and validates the sacrifices made by those that gave so much. I will put a little note at the end there is always an exception to every rule, and from time to time there is someone that wishes none of those things and for them I have little to offer save this, you too have to live in the same world we do and regardless of where you are and where you come from, we all want the same basic things in life. to live free, to live in peace, and to share happiness with those around us.

 

[jillian]

You a lawyer who doesn't know the law? Under federal immigration law you must carry proof of your immigration status.

i'm sorry... do you think baiting me is going to make me pay you any mind?

sucks being you.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You a lawyer who doesn't know the law? Under federal immigration law you must carry proof of your immigration status.

i'm sorry... do you think baiting me is going to make me pay you any mind?

sucks being you.

baiting you? No I'm just being honest. you have no fucking clue what your talking about

You couldn't muster up a viable argument if you had a constitutional lawyer stuck up your ass.

You claim to be an attorney but you don't even know the laws. You're nothing but a fake and a liar and it really must suck to be you since you have to pretend to be something you're not.

And obviously you are paying me some mind or you wouldn't be addressing me.

I rest my case!

 

[Reidlr]

She's obviously biased and not worth listening to.

She's not a citizen...she's not living on the border of Arizona subjected to the crime and violence that the ranchers are.

She's just a singer with no real knowledge of the issue other then she is an alien making a living here.

In effect just another rich asshole talking out of her ass.

This law will do nothing to stop the violence. But I love how you guys keep mentioning the violence as a reason for this law. Has harsher penalities for drug crimes, done anything to stop drug crimes?

Try reading the National Drug Threat Assessment 2010! This document is publised by the National Drug Intelligence Center, which is a department of the DOJ. The truth is, the southwest border is the reason for most of the drugs in this country! Drug related crimes have reduced over the past years, except for at or near the southwest border! As far as violence is concerned, pay close attention to the section, U.S. Southwest Border Smuggling and Violence. Tougher border control and enforcement of current federal immigration laws would help, not cure, reduce violence in the border region.

If we all used your logic of, "it hasn't helped", we would have total chaos in our country! Well, people are still commiting murders so let just make it legal! Traffic violations haven't really improved over the years, so lets just stop writing tickets! Idiotic!

 

[Luissa]

WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama's proposed 2011 budget would cut the border patrol by 180 agents and trim spending on a "virtual fence" along the nation's Southwest border.

Homeland security officials confirmed the proposed cuts Monday during a budget briefing for reporters. They said no border patrol agents would lose their jobs. Instead, the positions would be cut through attrition as agents retire or leave.
President proposes cutting border patrol

•Funding of $368 million within existing Customs and Border Protection funds support 20,000 Border Patrol agents protecting nearly 6,000 miles of U.S. borders.


•Provides over $1.4 billion for Immigration and Customs Enforcement programs to ensure that illegal aliens who commit crimes are expeditiously identified and removed from the United States.

Immigration and the President's 2010 Budget - The President's 2010 Budget and Immigration

Luissa with a budget that basically is smaller than the cost of one B-2 Bomber is it any wonder that drug traffic along the border is not a big risk? It's a numbers game and with only a 10% chance of getting caught and with a lack of investment on our part, its a risk they are willing to take, laws not withstanding.

Since 1969 how much money have we thrown down the toilet, in regards to the drug war? The answer is not more border patrol, or spending more money. It doesn't work, and never has.
Drug Cartels have a product that is not taxed, and has endless demand, they will always have more money to get around us. And if they are not coming in through Arizona, they will find somewhere else to come in through.
Here in Washington they increased border patrol, because most of BC bud comes across the Washington border. It did nothing to stop the drug from coming, they just found otherways. They even drop bags into Puget Sound with GPS locators on them, which proves you are ever going to stop the drug trade.

While I do think Luissa to simply spend money to wipe out the drug trade is a fools errand I also think that under-funding our nations border protection and then wonder why it is that drugs freely enter our nation is someone a ironic don't you? While I am fully aware that many wish some drugs to be legalized , so be if if that is the will of the people, but there are some examples in California where this has been a total disaster in terms of crime, drug addiction, murder, etc. I happen to think that funding and enforcement go hand in hand, it is hard to fund our border protection when you care more for restoring salt marsh wetlands and tunnels for turtles to cross under than you do the protection of your nations borders.

Obama increased that amount of money going into the drug war this last year.
Which in my opinion, is stupid. And California has not legalized anything, so you can't use that as an example. If you legalize marijuana for starters, we won't need to go to Mexico for it, we can support our own habit. It can also be taxed, which would probably really help California now.

 

[Navy1960]

I'm going to bring to light this drug thing a little more, give or take the border patrol along with US Customs has about a billion dollar budget. The Border Patrol in that gets about 380 Million, now in terms of how that matches up with the rest of the Federal Budget. Lets just compare shall we,


National Endowment for the Arts - 163.2 Million dollars
EPA Budget - 10.6 billion
Defense and all related defense spendin - 800 to 1.2 Trillion

Here are some programs that were cancelled with ZERO results, Yucca Mtn Nuclear waste site. 96.2 billion, Comanche Helicopter 6.2 billion Dollars, NASA constellation program 9.3 billion, etc. I can go on with this, but the point here is it's a little less than accurate to say that the the drug war is being lost when you compare funding of our nations border security vs. other federal programs and departments. I for one am of the opnion that a nations borders are part of that nations defense and as such should be a TOP issue for a Govt to address, rather than debating such things as cow emissions.

 

[Reidlr]

I'm going to bring to light this drug thing a little more, give or take the border patrol along with US Customs has about a billion dollar budget. The Border Patrol in that gets about 380 Million, now in terms of how that matches up with the rest of the Federal Budget. Lets just compare shall we,


National Endowment for the Arts - 163.2 Million dollars
EPA Budget - 10.6 billion
Defense and all related defense spendin - 800 to 1.2 Trillion

Here are some programs that were cancelled with ZERO results, Yucca Mtn Nuclear waste site. 96.2 billion, Comanche Helicopter 6.2 billion Dollars, NASA constellation program 9.3 billion, etc. I can go on with this, but the point here is it's a little less than accurate to say that the the drug war is being lost when you compare funding of our nations border security vs. other federal programs and departments. I for one am of the opnion that a nations borders are part of that nations defense and as such should be a TOP issue for a Govt to address, rather than debating such things as cow emissions.

Excellent post. On top of the fact that funding is substationally lower than what is required. US Customs and border patrol can't even patrol the entire border. The Department of the Interior has labled various sections of land as "wilderness areas" and are not to be disturbed by man. Therefore, the border patrol agents aren't allowed to drive motor vehicles into those areas. It has been well documented that these wilderness areas have become major smuggling and drug run areas. So not only is the federal gov't not giving border security enough attention, but they are actually interfering.

 

[Navy1960]

Since 1969 how much money have we thrown down the toilet, in regards to the drug war? The answer is not more border patrol, or spending more money. It doesn't work, and never has.
Drug Cartels have a product that is not taxed, and has endless demand, they will always have more money to get around us. And if they are not coming in through Arizona, they will find somewhere else to come in through.
Here in Washington they increased border patrol, because most of BC bud comes across the Washington border. It did nothing to stop the drug from coming, they just found otherways. They even drop bags into Puget Sound with GPS locators on them, which proves you are ever going to stop the drug trade.

While I do think Luissa to simply spend money to wipe out the drug trade is a fools errand I also think that under-funding our nations border protection and then wonder why it is that drugs freely enter our nation is someone a ironic don't you? While I am fully aware that many wish some drugs to be legalized , so be if if that is the will of the people, but there are some examples in California where this has been a total disaster in terms of crime, drug addiction, murder, etc. I happen to think that funding and enforcement go hand in hand, it is hard to fund our border protection when you care more for restoring salt marsh wetlands and tunnels for turtles to cross under than you do the protection of your nations borders.

Obama increased that amount of money going into the drug war this last year.
Which in my opinion, is stupid. And California has not legalized anything, so you can't use that as an example. If you legalize marijuana for starters, we won't need to go to Mexico for it, we can support our own habit. It can also be taxed, which would probably really help California now.

There
is a positive association between self-reported use at the time of the offence and non-drug related
violent, property and income-producing crime even after accounting for other substance use in the
ADAM data. Reduced form equations using both data sets only provide evidence supporting a causal
mechanism for property and income-producing crime. In the case of violent crime, we find a
statistically significant association with arrests but not reported crime, suggesting that marijuana use
may just influence the likelihood of getting caught committing these crimes.
http://www.litagion.org/pubs/working_papers/2004/RAND_WR125.pdf


So bascially what your advocating here Luissa is a tax producing mechanism that also will also increase the crime. While I am no fan of recent California legislative actions this one would go down in a long line of ones not suitable for the nation.

 

[jillian]

You a lawyer who doesn't know the law? Under federal immigration law you must carry proof of your immigration status.

i'm sorry... do you think baiting me is going to make me pay you any mind?

sucks being you.

baiting you? No I'm just being honest. you have no fucking clue what your talking about

You couldn't muster up a viable argument if you had a constitutional lawyer stuck up your ass.

You claim to be an attorney but you don't even know the laws. You're nothing but a fake and a liar and it really must suck to be you since you have to pretend to be something you're not.

And obviously you are paying me some mind or you wouldn't be addressing me.

I rest my case!

no. you're a nutbar.

and i'm just amusing myself batting you around. not interested in discussing anything of moment with you because you aren't worth the time it would take me to educate your ignorant self.

 

[WillowTree]

is there a VAT I don't know about?

coming down the pike sugar.

like i said... krauthammer was wrong on everything for eight years. not much interested in what his *opinion* is now.

tsk tsk tsk,, and we offered you a jelly bean fix..

 

[WillowTree]

actually, her statement is 100% true. she's not illegal if she has a visitor's visa. yet if she goes down the block for a coffee, she can be arrested and detained.

the point is that NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO CARRY PAPERS BECAUSE THEY ARE HISPANIC.

Now wait a second....let me try to understand this .....Shakira says she can be arrested for NOT having a US driver's license, I counter that since she's got a VISA to be in the US she hasn't a thing to worry about and you say she can still be arrested?

For what charge? She has a valid visa!

if she doesn't CARRY it she can be arrested if stopped.

that's a given. are you denying that? that's the whole point of the law.

no, it's not. if Sharkira breaks the law and comes into contact with la polcicia she will be asked for ID,, if she doesn't have it and is found to be here illegally she will be arrested for breaking the law and for being here illegally..

 

[jillian]

Now wait a second....let me try to understand this .....Shakira says she can be arrested for NOT having a US driver's license, I counter that since she's got a VISA to be in the US she hasn't a thing to worry about and you say she can still be arrested?

For what charge? She has a valid visa!

if she doesn't CARRY it she can be arrested if stopped.

that's a given. are you denying that? that's the whole point of the law.

no, it's not. if Sharkira breaks the law and comes into contact with la polcicia she will be asked for ID,, if she doesn't have it and is found to be here illegally she will be arrested for breaking the law and for being here illegally..

and what happens, bubbalah, when jose who has earned his citizenship papers has to run out at night to get meds for his wife and doesn't carry his citizenship papers?

hmmmmmmmmmm?

 

[jillian]

coming down the pike sugar.

like i said... krauthammer was wrong on everything for eight years. not much interested in what his *opinion* is now.

tsk tsk tsk,, and we offered you a jelly bean fix..

that's nice, honey.

speaking of jelly beans, did you see the recipes i posted for you?

 

[jillian]

We shouldn't give any illegal alien amnesty! If you are found to be here illegally, then you should be sent back to the your country of origin. Once you are back home in your country, then you may follow the laws of this great country in order to return.

assume i agree with you.... and in an ideal world i do. but do you have any idea what the cost of such an endeavor would be?

and is that a priority over other things we need to spend money on?

finally, if someone said to you that it could be done but your taxes would go up 30%, what would you do?

i think these questions are fair because, ultimately, it comes down to how expensive would it be to find and ship everyone back to country of origin?

 

[WillowTree]

if she doesn't CARRY it she can be arrested if stopped.

that's a given. are you denying that? that's the whole point of the law.

no, it's not. if Sharkira breaks the law and comes into contact with la polcicia she will be asked for ID,, if she doesn't have it and is found to be here illegally she will be arrested for breaking the law and for being here illegally..

and what happens, bubbalah, when jose who has earned his citizenship papers has to run out at night to get meds for his wife and doesn't carry his citizenship papers?

hmmmmmmmmmm?

He is a citizen of the US? or a visitor with papers?? Citzen? He gets to go home and get them. Visitor without his papers? he broke Federal law.

 

[DiamondDave]

We shouldn't give any illegal alien amnesty! If you are found to be here illegally, then you should be sent back to the your country of origin. Once you are back home in your country, then you may follow the laws of this great country in order to return.

assume i agree with you.... and in an ideal world i do. but do you have any idea what the cost of such an endeavor would be?

and is that a priority over other things we need to spend money on?

finally, if someone said to you that it could be done but your taxes would go up 30%, what would you do?

i think these questions are fair because, ultimately, it comes down to how expensive would it be to find and ship everyone back to country of origin?

law enforcement costs money.. no doubt.... and that IS what monies should be spent on rather than wealth redistribution and entitlements for personal responsibilities

If revenues need to go up... just start taxing those that are not participating in income taxation currently... but this should be taken care of by cutting unnecessary governmental spending

 

[WillowTree]

We shouldn't give any illegal alien amnesty! If you are found to be here illegally, then you should be sent back to the your country of origin. Once you are back home in your country, then you may follow the laws of this great country in order to return.

assume i agree with you.... and in an ideal world i do. but do you have any idea what the cost of such an endeavor would be?

and is that a priority over other things we need to spend money on?

finally, if someone said to you that it could be done but your taxes would go up 30%, what would you do?

i think these questions are fair because, ultimately, it comes down to how expensive would it be to find and ship everyone back to country of origin?

how's about if we just shipped em when we found em?? I know, I know. go to the grocery store and lock all the doors and ask for "papers" Everybody has to eat don't they?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

assume i agree with you.... and in an ideal world i do. but do you have any idea what the cost of such an endeavor would be?

Putting up a triple fence would be cheaper yet Obama hasn't done that yet either. He promised he would secure the boarders just like every other president has...he has failed so far and yet no one says a damn thing about that....they instead choose to make up a bunch of baloney about an AZ law that mirrors what the feds refuse to enforce.

 

[boedicca]

A fence along the border would have been a more appropriate use of Stimulus funds than shoveling it into state and local governments.

 

[DiamondDave]

A fence along the border would have been a more appropriate use of Stimulus funds than shoveling it into state and local governments.

Though I don't agree with the stimulus at all in principle... with the fact it was done anyway, I would agree with your statement