Sgt Shamar Thomas, USMC

[High_Gravity]

Technically it can't be enforced on them. I'm not sure you can even BUY them without proof of service if they are the new ones.

Sales of current use military uniforms are prohibited to anyone except those who have been or are in the service.

Are you sure about that?

Military Apparel | Military uniform supplies, name tapes, patches, tactical gear, camouflage clothin

I bought a few uniforms on line when I was still in the service and they shipped them to my house, they never asked for proof of service. Any civilian can log on to this site and order a brand new Army uniform with all the trimmings without having served 1 day in their life.

The law does not address sales specifically. For example, if your spouse is in the military, you are allowed to go in and buy a ribbon they need for a ceremony. Same for anyone you know in the military (at a surplus store, not at the BX obviously). The law addresses wearing the uniform. I must stress that it is US Code 10, not UCMJ. It is possible to charge a civilian.

Mike

Thanks for the info on this Mike. I personally don't think its a good idea to have our uniforms on sale for everyone to buy though.

 

[Photonic]

Are you sure about that?

Military Apparel | Military uniform supplies, name tapes, patches, tactical gear, camouflage clothin

I bought a few uniforms on line when I was still in the service and they shipped them to my house, they never asked for proof of service. Any civilian can log on to this site and order a brand new Army uniform with all the trimmings without having served 1 day in their life.

The law does not address sales specifically. For example, if your spouse is in the military, you are allowed to go in and buy a ribbon they need for a ceremony. Same for anyone you know in the military (at a surplus store, not at the BX obviously). The law addresses wearing the uniform. I must stress that it is US Code 10, not UCMJ. It is possible to charge a civilian.

Mike

Thanks for the info on this Mike. I personally don't think its a good idea to have our uniforms on sale for everyone to buy though.

Me neither.

 

[Texanmike]

The law does not address sales specifically. For example, if your spouse is in the military, you are allowed to go in and buy a ribbon they need for a ceremony. Same for anyone you know in the military (at a surplus store, not at the BX obviously). The law addresses wearing the uniform. I must stress that it is US Code 10, not UCMJ. It is possible to charge a civilian.

Mike

Thanks for the info on this Mike. I personally don't think its a good idea to have our uniforms on sale for everyone to buy though.

Me neither.

Just other "fyi" information. Here is the AFI 36-2903 and what it says about when military personnel are not authorized to wear the uniform.

1.4. When NOT to wear the Air Force Uniform.
1.4.1. At a meeting of, or sponsored by an organization, association, movement, or group that:
1.4.1.1. The Attorney General of the United States has named as totalitarian, fascist, communist or subversive.
1.4.1.2. Advocates or approves acts of force or violence to deny others their rights under the Constitution of the United States.
1.4.1.3. Seeks to change the United States Government by unconstitutional means.
1.4.2. While participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches or rallies or in any public demonstration when participation may imply Air Force sanction of the cause.
1.4.3. At any public meeting, demonstration, march, rally or interview if the purpose may be to advocate, express or approve opposition to the Armed Forces of the United States.
1.4.4. When it would discredit the Armed Forces.
1.4.5. When discharged for bad conduct, undesirability, unsuitability, inaptitude, or other than honorably, Airmen will not wear the Air Force uniform upon discharge.
1.4.6. While furthering political activities, private employment or commercial interest.
1.4.7. While working in an off-duty, civilian capacity.
1.4.8. While participating in civilian court proceedings when the conviction would bring discredit to the Air Force.
AFI 36-2903 18 JULY 2011 11
1.4.9. While in civilian attire. Do not mix or wear military unique uniform items with civilian clothes; for example, rank insignia, cap devices, badges, and other US or Air Force insignia, devices, buttons, etc. Exception: Tie tacks and lapel pens are authorized when wearing business attire.
1.4.10. When wearing combinations of uniform items not specifically prescribed in this AFI.
1.4.11. When uniform items do not meet Air Force specifications.
1.4.12. When off base eating at restaurants where most diners wear business attire or at establishments that operate primarily to serve alcohol, do not wear utility uniforms such as ABUs, BDUs, etc., or the flight duty uniform.
1.4.13. Air Force personnel may not wear their military uniforms when using frequent flyer miles to upgrade to business or first class. Thus, even when an upgrade to business or first class accommodations is legitimate, military personnel should avoid wearing the uniform to avoid the public perception of the misuse of government travel resources, which generates unnecessary complaints.

And on a last note. In the AF you are actually not authorized to get your uniform from somewhere that is not authorized.

1.5. How Members Acquire Uniform Items.
1.5.1. Officers and Enlisted Personnel.
1.5.1.1. Purchase clothing items from the Army and Air Force Exchange Service (AAFES) Military Clothing Sales Stores (MCSS) supplied by the Defense Supply Center Philadelphia (DSCP). For optional items such as pumps, purses, etc, commercial vendors may be used.
1.5.1.2. Do not purchase uniform items from unauthorized manufacturers—if it is not authorized or mentioned in this AFI, then it is not authorized for wear (Exception: Allowance Standard (AS) 016 items authorized by commander). The omission of a specific item or appearance standard does not automatically permit its wear.
1.5.2. Officer Personnel. Procure and maintain all items necessary to meet standards of dress for assigned duties and mission requirements.
1.5.3. Enlisted Personnel. Procure and maintain all mandatory clothing items listed in AFI 36-3014, Clothing Allowances for Air Force Personnel. Request a civilian clothing allowance in accordance with AFI 36-3014, when required by competent authority to wear civilian clothes (for reasons such as safety or security) while performing assigned duties.

Just FYI.

Mike

 

[Photonic]

He violated 1.4.6 & 1.4.9 then.

 

[High_Gravity]

He violated 1.4.6 & 1.4.9 then.

Basically, yes, but he is far from the only one.

 

[paulitician]

So many people wanted the Police State/Nanny State. Well here it is. We're all guilty till proven innocent now. It's very sad.

 

[bodecea]

I'm sorry but Thomas is just wrong. First of all, he is not supposed to use the military uniform to support or to endorse his political cause. He should not be at a political rally in uniform and it should not be a part of political expression. Second, he is not an active duty Marine. Unless he is retired, he does not have the auhtority to wear his military uniform unless expressly authorized.

You can wear your uniform if you separate from the service, I see people do that all the time.

Still wear my flight jacket.

 

[High_Gravity]

I'm sorry but Thomas is just wrong. First of all, he is not supposed to use the military uniform to support or to endorse his political cause. He should not be at a political rally in uniform and it should not be a part of political expression. Second, he is not an active duty Marine. Unless he is retired, he does not have the auhtority to wear his military uniform unless expressly authorized.

You can wear your uniform if you separate from the service, I see people do that all the time.

Still wear my flight jacket.

I have to admit I have worn my goretex parka a few times in the cold weather.

 

[Texanmike]

You can wear your uniform if you separate from the service, I see people do that all the time.

Still wear my flight jacket.

I have to admit I have worn my goretex parka a few times in the cold weather.

I believe that when it says

(1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the
Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps

that they have determined that to mean that you cannot wear the entire uniform or a uniform adorned with full name tapes, accuterments (sp, I know) and decorations. They actually gave out a few of the old apex jackets to spouses on base one time and they used to encourage us to donate unservicable items (too faded, small tears etc) to charities. We just had to remove name tape and service tapes along with rank.

I think you're ok (and the flight jacket too). The intent behind this is to keep people from acting as if they are military, or trying to present the uniform in a way that it appears to be supporting or endorsing some form of politics when in fact neither way you are talking about using it does that.

That part however, is my opnion and is not rooted in near as much research as the comment on the OP story.

Mike

 

[High_Gravity]

Still wear my flight jacket.

I have to admit I have worn my goretex parka a few times in the cold weather.

I believe that when it says

(1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the
Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps

that they have determined that to mean that you cannot wear the entire uniform or a uniform adorned with full name tapes, accuterments (sp, I know) and decorations. They actually gave out a few of the old apex jackets to spouses on base one time and they used to encourage us to donate unservicable items (too faded, small tears etc) to charities. We just had to remove name tape and service tapes along with rank.

I think you're ok (and the flight jacket too). The intent behind this is to keep people from acting as if they are military, or trying to present the uniform in a way that it appears to be supporting or endorsing some form of politics when in fact neither way you are talking about using it does that.

That part however, is my opnion and is not rooted in near as much research as the comment on the OP story.

Mike

Thanks for your insight on this Mike!

 

[IndependntLogic]

Jeez, the world is really upside down to libs including some Marines. You have a bunch of spoiled kids milling around pissing in the gutter and looking for a mob confrontation and Sgt Thomas tells the NYPD to "go to Afghanistan if they are looking for a fight"? Those spoiled sissies could have had their college paid for if they spent a couple of years in the Military. Many of the NYPD Officers who risk their lives every day are Veterans. What did those OWS kids ever do besides spend daddy's money on a useless college degree in wall paper hanging?

So Sgt. Thomas is a sissy? He doesn't look like it to me. And um, he's there.

As far as the other people, your logic seems to be
1. You personally know ALL of them, and can therefore judge them
2. They are all college and none are military.
3. They should have been able to predict market factors that would affect employability four years in advance - at the age of 18.
4. Therefore it's okay for the NYPD to beat them up because you don't like them.

Personally, I thought they were all a bunch of whackjobs until our neighbor told me a bit more. He owns a UPS Store. Also a vet like me. You know, what you call a spoiled sissy.
Apparently, OWS' biggest gripe is that corporations, lobbyists and even unions, have more influence on our elections & politicians than We The People do.
I don't know about anything else but I am 100% behind that ONE aspect.
Aren't you?

 

[noose4]

I'm sorry but Thomas is just wrong. First of all, he is not supposed to use the military uniform to support or to endorse his political cause. He should not be at a political rally in uniform and it should not be a part of political expression. Second, he is not an active duty Marine. Unless he is retired, he does not have the auhtority to wear his military uniform unless expressly authorized.

You can wear your uniform if you separate from the service, I see people do that all the time.

Still wear my flight jacket.

Once in a while I wear my cammie blouse, it is 28 years old and the only article of my old uniforms I can still kind of fit on my body.

 

[MikeK]

As a civilian, Mr. Thomas has a right to assemble and speak at a public protest. I don't know if he tried to pass as an active duty Marine, but others that have identified him as such need to bone up a bit on America's Marine Corps. He is way too chubby with weird facial hair. No way could he be mistaken for a Marine. A former Marine maybe.

Also, I'm not sure as to why he would wear the uniform in such a manner. It has brought too much negative attention to himself. On a couple of military forums I visit, and one Marine specific site, the general opinion is that he presents himself as a douche. There are also people digging into his actual service because some of his story isn't adding up. Personally I don't care one way or another. The First Amendment allows great latitude in self-expression.

I've been reluctant to express my feeling that this fellow's appearance and demeanor do not reflect any Marine Corps standard I'm familiar with, whether active, reserve, or former, but my frame of reference is the mid-1950s and I know things have changed a lot since then. So hopefully you're right and Shamar Thomas is some sort of poseur or misfit.

Because if he isn't the Corps has gotten really sloppy.

 

[Photonic]

As a civilian, Mr. Thomas has a right to assemble and speak at a public protest. I don't know if he tried to pass as an active duty Marine, but others that have identified him as such need to bone up a bit on America's Marine Corps. He is way too chubby with weird facial hair. No way could he be mistaken for a Marine. A former Marine maybe.

Also, I'm not sure as to why he would wear the uniform in such a manner. It has brought too much negative attention to himself. On a couple of military forums I visit, and one Marine specific site, the general opinion is that he presents himself as a douche. There are also people digging into his actual service because some of his story isn't adding up. Personally I don't care one way or another. The First Amendment allows great latitude in self-expression.

I've been reluctant to express my feeling that this fellow's appearance and demeanor do not reflect any Marine Corps standard I'm familiar with, whether active, reserve, or former, but my frame of reference is the mid-1950s and I know things have changed a lot since then. So hopefully you're right and Shamar Thomas is some sort of poseur or misfit.

Because if he isn't the Corps has gotten really sloppy.

Nah he's a marine, that much is fairly obvious. Active Duty? Probably not.

 

[High_Gravity]

As a civilian, Mr. Thomas has a right to assemble and speak at a public protest. I don't know if he tried to pass as an active duty Marine, but others that have identified him as such need to bone up a bit on America's Marine Corps. He is way too chubby with weird facial hair. No way could he be mistaken for a Marine. A former Marine maybe.

Also, I'm not sure as to why he would wear the uniform in such a manner. It has brought too much negative attention to himself. On a couple of military forums I visit, and one Marine specific site, the general opinion is that he presents himself as a douche. There are also people digging into his actual service because some of his story isn't adding up. Personally I don't care one way or another. The First Amendment allows great latitude in self-expression.

I've been reluctant to express my feeling that this fellow's appearance and demeanor do not reflect any Marine Corps standard I'm familiar with, whether active, reserve, or former, but my frame of reference is the mid-1950s and I know things have changed a lot since then. So hopefully you're right and Shamar Thomas is some sort of poseur or misfit.

Because if he isn't the Corps has gotten really sloppy.

I'm not making any excuses for the guy or anything but if he was a Marine and served in Iraq he probably went through some real hard times and may have PTSD, alot of guys who came back from Iraq and Afghanistan are struggling and look worse for wear, you can check out any VA Hospital in any major city if you don't believe me.

 

[High_Gravity]

As a civilian, Mr. Thomas has a right to assemble and speak at a public protest. I don't know if he tried to pass as an active duty Marine, but others that have identified him as such need to bone up a bit on America's Marine Corps. He is way too chubby with weird facial hair. No way could he be mistaken for a Marine. A former Marine maybe.

Also, I'm not sure as to why he would wear the uniform in such a manner. It has brought too much negative attention to himself. On a couple of military forums I visit, and one Marine specific site, the general opinion is that he presents himself as a douche. There are also people digging into his actual service because some of his story isn't adding up. Personally I don't care one way or another. The First Amendment allows great latitude in self-expression.

I've been reluctant to express my feeling that this fellow's appearance and demeanor do not reflect any Marine Corps standard I'm familiar with, whether active, reserve, or former, but my frame of reference is the mid-1950s and I know things have changed a lot since then. So hopefully you're right and Shamar Thomas is some sort of poseur or misfit.

Because if he isn't the Corps has gotten really sloppy.

Nah he's a marine, that much is fairly obvious. Active Duty? Probably not.

He was Active duty and served in Iraq, his mother and father were also both in the service and he was an Army brat.

 

[old navy]

As a civilian, Mr. Thomas has a right to assemble and speak at a public protest. I don't know if he tried to pass as an active duty Marine, but others that have identified him as such need to bone up a bit on America's Marine Corps. He is way too chubby with weird facial hair. No way could he be mistaken for a Marine. A former Marine maybe.

Also, I'm not sure as to why he would wear the uniform in such a manner. It has brought too much negative attention to himself. On a couple of military forums I visit, and one Marine specific site, the general opinion is that he presents himself as a douche. There are also people digging into his actual service because some of his story isn't adding up. Personally I don't care one way or another. The First Amendment allows great latitude in self-expression.

I've been reluctant to express my feeling that this fellow's appearance and demeanor do not reflect any Marine Corps standard I'm familiar with, whether active, reserve, or former, but my frame of reference is the mid-1950s and I know things have changed a lot since then. So hopefully you're right and Shamar Thomas is some sort of poseur or misfit.

Because if he isn't the Corps has gotten really sloppy.

Nah he's a marine, that much is fairly obvious. Active Duty? Probably not.

I've read that he was discharged in 2007. One thing among several that sets Marines apart from other members of the world's militaries is their appearance. Tight haircuts, ramrod bearing, and pride in the uniform. I'm sure he fit that description while serving but has now chosen to tarnish the image.

I spent three tours with the Marines as a Corpsman, workout and shop at a Marine Corps base, and my son is a Marine officer, so I would bet money if I had any that Thomas is now a former Marine.

 

[Photonic]

I've been reluctant to express my feeling that this fellow's appearance and demeanor do not reflect any Marine Corps standard I'm familiar with, whether active, reserve, or former, but my frame of reference is the mid-1950s and I know things have changed a lot since then. So hopefully you're right and Shamar Thomas is some sort of poseur or misfit.

Because if he isn't the Corps has gotten really sloppy.

Nah he's a marine, that much is fairly obvious. Active Duty? Probably not.

He was Active duty and served in Iraq, his mother and father were also both in the service and he was an Army brat.

I mean active duty as of that moment, Sir.

 

[MikeK]

You can wear your uniform if you separate from the service, I see people do that all the time.

You are wrong. There are a few exceptions but I am quite sure they do not apply here. Unless he is retired he is not authorized to wear it without some very strict exceptions. Furthermore, if he were active duty he would not be authorized to wear it in that capacity.

Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of
the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may
wear -
(1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the
Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps; or
(2) a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive
part of the uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine
Corps.

(a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c), when an
enlisted member of an armed force is discharged, the exterior
articles of uniform in his possession that were issued to him,
other than those that he may wear from the place of discharge to
his home under section 772(d) of this title, shall be retained for
military use.
(b) When an enlisted member of an armed force is discharged for
bad conduct, undesirability, unsuitability, inaptitude, or
otherwise than honorably -
(1) the exterior articles of uniform in his possession shall be
retained for military use;
(2) under such regulations as the Secretary concerned
prescribes, a suit of civilian clothing and an overcoat when
necessary, both to cost not more than $30, may be issued to him;
and
(3) if he would be otherwise without funds to meet his
immediate needs, he may be paid an amount, fixed by the Secretary
concerned, of not more than $25.

(c) When an enlisted member of the Army National Guard or the Air
National Guard who has been called into Federal service is released
from that service, the exterior articles of uniform in his
possession shall be accounted for as property issued to the Army
National Guard or the Air National Guard, as the case may be, of
the State or territory, Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia of
whose Army National Guard or Air National Guard he is a member, as
prescribed in section 708 of title 32.

Sec. 772. When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized

-STATUTE-
(a) A member of the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard
may wear the uniform prescribed for the Army National Guard or the
Air National Guard, as the case may be.
(b) A member of the Naval Militia may wear the uniform prescribed
for the Naval Militia.
(c) A retired officer of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine
Corps may bear the title and wear the uniform of his retired grade.
(d) A person who is discharged honorably or under honorable
conditions from the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may wear
his uniform while going from the place of discharge to his home,
within three months after his discharge.
(e) A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of
war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the
title, and, when authorized by regulations prescribed by the
President, wear the uniform, of the highest grade held by him
during that war.
(f) While portraying a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or
Marine Corps, an actor in a theatrical or motion-picture production
may wear the uniform of that armed force if the portrayal does not
tend to discredit that armed force.
(g) An officer or resident of a veterans' home administered by
the Department of Veterans Affairs may wear such uniform as the
Secretary of the military department concerned may prescribe.
(h) While attending a course of military instruction conducted by
the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, a civilian may wear the
uniform prescribed by that armed force if the wear of such uniform
is specifically authorized under regulations prescribed by the
Secretary of the military department concerned.
(i) Under such regulations as the Secretary of the Air Force may
prescribe, a citizen of a foreign country who graduates from an Air
Force school may wear the appropriate aviation badges of the Air
Force.
(j) A person in any of the following categories may wear the
uniform prescribed for that category:
(1) Members of the Boy Scouts of America.
(2) Members of any other organization designated by the
Secretary of a military department.

Think before you speak. Look up before you write.

Mike

So who enforces this rule? I don't see anyone arresting these guys who wear their old uniforms when they show up to these protests.

The determining factor is the word "distinctive" (Item 1 in the above specifications).

As a civilian you may wear some part(s) of your fatigues but they may not bear any distinctive emblems or insignia. The same applies to other uniform classes, one popular example being Michael Jackson who wore a Marine Corps Dress Blues tunic with Corporal stripes in one of his videos. That is legal. But if the gold Globe & Anchor (distinctive) emblems were attached to the collar it would have been illegal (impersonation).

 

[MikeK]

So who enforces this rule? I don't see anyone arresting these guys who wear their old uniforms when they show up to these protests.

I've had a friend who got a citation for wearing his.

Really? I've never seen the police show any interest in pursuing someone because they wore their service uniform after they separated. How often is this law really enforced?

I was a Vietnam protester and there were several 'Nam vets in our (Park Slope, Brooklyn) group, some of whom wore parts of their fatique uniforms during demonstrations. The only problems I ever saw were at airports because there always were MPs there who would tell the vets to remove their medals and ribbons and any identifying emblems or insignia (shoulder patches, etc).

Except for the airports there never were any such problems.