Zone1 Serious Question About Abortion

[ClaireH]

There is no issue here since it's self-evident to most rational people that an embryo isn't a person, much less a person with the same rights as the woman that conceived it and is carrying it. It's the woman's rights and interests that takes precedence over the imaginary rights of an embryo or unviable, undeveloped fetus. No one should have the right to impose pregnancy on a woman.

Speak for yourself and don’t insert your own views into anyone else’s perspective. It’s not a good look.

A human embryo is a person, a human fetus is a person, a baby is a person. Do you believe that a human embryo can turn out to be something other than human in species once birthed? Don’t throw in some sicko experiment that’s currently going on under CCP control. I’m aware of the animal/human hybrids created in different laboratories. I am asking you a very basic question- do you believe that a human embryo developing without genetic interference of some kind, do you think it will be something else besides human when it’s born?

 

[Coyote]

isn't a fetus sentient?

~S~

Unknown, but I don’t support elective abortions past viability.

 

[Road Runner]

"I've noticed that everyone for abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan

 

[ClaireH]

Unknown, but I don’t support elective abortions past viability.

No. It is known there are studies that prove a fetus can feel pain. I’ll check about embryonic stage but newer technology has moved that pain threshold earlier than previously known. As with other areas in medicine and science, as techniques improve we will learn more. It’s not at all hard to believe that sentience is earlier than currently measured, because as I said just within the last couple of years they’ve moved it forward. Amazing stuff new tech.

New Study Shows Unborn Babies Feel Pain at 12 Weeks - Charlotte Lozier Institute

“Science Again Points to the Humanity of the Unborn.” Washington, D.C. – A new study “Reconsidering Fetal Pain” confirms that babies in the womb can feel pain as early as 12 weeks old. Writing in the Journal of Medical Ethics, Stuart W.G. Derbyshire and John C. Bockmann state: “Overall, the...

lozierinstitute.org

 

[Faun]

I do believe that JohnDB also brought up this point once before. Why don't fathers ever have their right to refuse an abortion and take care of their own kid?

They would have such a right if they could carry the unborn to term. Otherwise, they have no right to violate a woman's privilege to terminate her pregnancy.

 

[Road Runner]

They would have such a right if they could carry the unborn to term. Otherwise, they have no right to violate a woman's privilege to terminate her pregnancy.

So then why do they have rights when it comes to signing over an adoption?

 

[ClaireH]

No, that's not reasonable for most people. Life in the womb after 6 months gestation, especially after eight and nine months is a prenatal human being. Even most leftists aren't going to support your cause for abortion rights if you're pushing for willy-nilly late-term abortions. Early in the pregnancy she should have the right to end the pregnancy for whatever reason, but if she waits seven, eight or nine months, that life in her womb is a human being.

Abortion doctors have been quoted as stating that conducting abortions starts to really bother them @when they can see fingers and toes” about 7 weeks along.

 

[ClaireH]

isn't a fetus sentient?

~S~

It is yes it’s been proven and they’ve moved up that pain threshold even within the last two years.

 

[Road Runner]

Abortion doctors have been quoted as stating that conducting abortions starts to really bother them @when they can see fingers and toes” about 7 weeks along.

It bothers me as soon as they have a heartbeat because then they're officially alive.

 

[Faun]

So then why do they have rights when it comes to signing over an adoption?

Because that requires the consent of the pregnant woman. Men have the right you mention to prevent a new mom from giving away her child to adoption without the father's consent.

 

[Road Runner]

Because that requires the consent of the pregnant woman. Men have the right you mention to prevent a new mom from giving away her child to adoption without the father's consent.

I missed the difference. :/

 

[Coyote]

So then why do they have rights when it comes to signing over an adoption?

IMO, at that point it is not part of another person’s body and there are equal parental rights.

 

[sparky]

It is yes it’s been proven and they’ve moved up that pain threshold even within the last two years.

so does a sentient being have a 'soul' ? or does that happen w/first breath?

iirc, isn't there something biblical about that?

~S~

 

[sparky]

IMO, at that point it is not part of another person’s body and there are equal parental rights.

so like, kidney donors can't get visitation?

~S~

 

[Faun]

I missed the difference. :/

The difference is the woman carries the unborn child while the man does not. That's nature's uneven playing field which gives the woman more rights than the man. It's her body.

 

[Road Runner]

IMO, at that point it is not part of another person’s body and there are equal parental rights.

So you at least establish that the unborn baby is part of the woman's body and not her actual body correct?

 

[Coyote]

so like, kidney donors can't get visitation?

~S~

I’m sure you can go cuddle your errant kidney if you ask.

 

[Natural Citizen]

isn't a fetus sentient?

~S~

It's certainly the other patient involved in the pregnancy.

Something that predictably gets ignored in the debate.

 

[Coyote]

So you at least establish that the unborn baby is part of the woman's body and not her actual body correct?

Yes.

 

[Road Runner]

The difference is the woman carries the unborn child while the man does not. That's nature's uneven playing field which gives the woman more rights than the man. It's her body.

Why oh why did I put this thread in zone 1? I'm holding myself back from cussing you out right now.