Senator Max Baucus : Redefining "The Public Option"

[VaYank5150]

I don't support Baucus's plan. His plan only differs slightly from the Democrat's plan. "Requiring" Americans to carry health insurance is a non-starter for me. I always stand on the side of freedom & liberty. More freedom not less. I just don't understand why so many are so willing to give away their freedom & liberty.

Fair enough. Knowing that all American taxpayers already pay for those who do not have coverage as our Hospital emergency rooms are not allowed to turn people away, would you support changing the 1986 legislation that mandates care for all?

It would be inhumane to turn away one who needs immediate care.

We need to strengthen our borders......but not deny someone in need.

Are you suggesting that only illegal aliens go to Emergency rooms for care and that we as taxpayers only pay for the care of those here illegally? Surely you jest.

 

[Oldandtired]

In my HUMBLE opinion, there has never been a proposal for "government takeover", so I have never truly understood the concern there.

No...no proposal for government takeover.......but as a business owner still licking my wounds of a recession, I will certainly turn to the public option for my employees....and I am sure many others will as well.......and it will be a matter of time before the insurance companies will struggle to compete while still making a profit for the shareholders....

So no...no government takeover....but even Obama siad that he supports a single payer system...but that it will take time...as lomg as 15 years....for it to be acheived.

SO I see this as the groundwork...and it concerns me.

While I do see your concerns and understand them, in my mind, there is OBVIOUSLY money to be made in private health insurance, even IF there is a public option. Do you honestly see ALL private insurers simply throwing their hands up and closing the doors?

I see them trying to compete...and slowly losing the battle.

Lets see how Ford handles the new GM intiative...you know...the "buy the car, drive it for 2 months and return it if you dont like it for a full refund"....

Ford can not afford to do that...seeing as the car deprecites immediately...and is valued at much less 2 months down the road.....but GM has the government backing this initiative.

So lets see where fords sales are compared to GM 6 months from now......but bear in mind....saels may look great for GM, but their profit will be very small with all of the "depreciation" losses they will incur.

 

[Oldandtired]

Fair enough. Knowing that all American taxpayers already pay for those who do not have coverage as our Hospital emergency rooms are not allowed to turn people away, would you support changing the 1986 legislation that mandates care for all?

It would be inhumane to turn away one who needs immediate care.

We need to strengthen our borders......but not deny someone in need.

Are you suggesting that only illegal aliens go to Emergency rooms for care and that we as taxpayers only pay for the care of those here illegally? Surely you jest.

huh? I said that?

I hate this "text" stuff....debates are marred by misinterpretation.

I was simply saying I am NOT ok with health care policies for illegals...but I certainly understand supporting ANMYONE that is in need of immediate healthcare but do not have a policy.....

 

[VaYank5150]

No...no proposal for government takeover.......but as a business owner still licking my wounds of a recession, I will certainly turn to the public option for my employees....and I am sure many others will as well.......and it will be a matter of time before the insurance companies will struggle to compete while still making a profit for the shareholders....

So no...no government takeover....but even Obama siad that he supports a single payer system...but that it will take time...as lomg as 15 years....for it to be acheived.

SO I see this as the groundwork...and it concerns me.

While I do see your concerns and understand them, in my mind, there is OBVIOUSLY money to be made in private health insurance, even IF there is a public option. Do you honestly see ALL private insurers simply throwing their hands up and closing the doors?

I see them trying to compete...and slowly losing the battle.

Lets see how Ford handles the new GM intiative...you know...the "buy the car, drive it for 2 months and return it if you dont like it for a full refund"....

Ford can not afford to do that...seeing as the car deprecites immediately...and is valued at much less 2 months down the road.....but GM has the government backing this initiative.

So lets see where fords sales are compared to GM 6 months from now......but bear in mind....saels may look great for GM, but their profit will be very small with all of the "depreciation" losses they will incur.

I'm still trying to figure out why news reports are saying we taxpayers will never see any of our money returned from GM?

 

[VaYank5150]

It would be inhumane to turn away one who needs immediate care.

We need to strengthen our borders......but not deny someone in need.

Are you suggesting that only illegal aliens go to Emergency rooms for care and that we as taxpayers only pay for the care of those here illegally? Surely you jest.

huh? I said that?

I hate this "text" stuff....debates are marred by misinterpretation.

I was simply saying I am NOT ok with health care policies for illegals...but I certainly understand supporting ANMYONE that is in need of immediate healthcare but do not have a policy.....

That's why I asked a question instead of jumping down your throat. I interpreted your post to mean that only illegal aliens need urgent care at our emergency rooms. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Oldandtired]

While I do see your concerns and understand them, in my mind, there is OBVIOUSLY money to be made in private health insurance, even IF there is a public option. Do you honestly see ALL private insurers simply throwing their hands up and closing the doors?

I see them trying to compete...and slowly losing the battle.

Lets see how Ford handles the new GM intiative...you know...the "buy the car, drive it for 2 months and return it if you dont like it for a full refund"....

Ford can not afford to do that...seeing as the car deprecites immediately...and is valued at much less 2 months down the road.....but GM has the government backing this initiative.

So lets see where fords sales are compared to GM 6 months from now......but bear in mind....saels may look great for GM, but their profit will be very small with all of the "depreciation" losses they will incur.

I'm still trying to figure out why news reports are saying we taxpayers will never see any of our money returned from GM?

NEVER?

I do not see it as possible to predict this.

However, I certainly see it as many years before GM makes a profit....especially with this new plan I mentioned earlier.....drive for two months plan......it will allow people to see if theu like a GM car...yes...but it will also create serious depreciation losses...

But NEVER? How can ANYONE predict NEVER?

 

[Contumacious]

I don't support Baucus's plan. His plan only differs slightly from the Democrat's plan. "Requiring" Americans to carry health insurance is a non-starter for me. I always stand on the side of freedom & liberty. More freedom not less. I just don't understand why so many are so willing to give away their freedom & liberty.

P-A-R-A-S-I-T-I-S-M.

Parasitism

(Science: biology, microbiology) A type of symbiosis where two (or more) organisms from different species live in close proximity to one another, in which one member depends on another for its nutrients, protection, and/or other life functions.


.

 

[VaYank5150]

U.S. Taxpayers Can Kiss Some GM, Chrysler Loans Good-Bye - Auto Observer

The Congressional Oversight Panel (COP), in its latest report issued Tuesday, said it is highly unlikely that the government will recover all of the $81 billion in loans to the auto industry. The panel did not say exactly how much in total it expected to recover.

 

[Oldandtired]

U.S. Taxpayers Can Kiss Some GM, Chrysler Loans Good-Bye - Auto Observer

The Congressional Oversight Panel (COP), in its latest report issued Tuesday, said it is highly unlikely that the government will recover all of the $81 billion in loans to the auto industry. The panel did not say exactly how much in total it expected to recover.

I never doubted it has been said...I have heard it myself.....but then they may as well say that GM will never recover PERIOD. Afterall, if it can not pay back the debt, it is not generating a profit. If it is not generating a profit, how long can it remain liquid?

Unless, of course, profit is not the goal.

And THAT is another concern I have about a "public option" government run insurance company.

 

[Care4all]

there are Private nonprofit Coop businesses throughout our country....why the beef NOW silly? Just to whine like a baby against the boogie man?

Interesting how you refer to those with concerns as "whining"....

So if one wants to debate, they are either racists or whiners.

I see.

Carry on...please.....carry on.

if you even read more than a handful of this poster's posts, you would understand what i said about him....no offense meant for you, i am actually enjoying your debate....because you are actually arguing an argument.

care

 

[VaYank5150]

U.S. Taxpayers Can Kiss Some GM, Chrysler Loans Good-Bye - Auto Observer

The Congressional Oversight Panel (COP), in its latest report issued Tuesday, said it is highly unlikely that the government will recover all of the $81 billion in loans to the auto industry. The panel did not say exactly how much in total it expected to recover.

I never doubted it has been said...I have heard it myself.....but then they may as well say that GM will never recover PERIOD. Afterall, if it can not pay back the debt, it is not generating a profit. If it is not generating a profit, how long can it remain liquid?

Unless, of course, profit is not the goal.

And THAT is another concern I have about a "public option" government run insurance company.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on GM. Our government should not be involved there. The fact that the UAW is part owner tells me GM will never recover anyway. The question now is will we ever allow GM to fail?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Baucus just needs to go back and re-work his proposal. Fining and condemning people for not carrying health insurance just seems a bit Un-American to me. We should be fighting for more Freedom & Liberty for the people not less. There are compromises that can be made by all sides and that's what is going to have to happen in the end. Nice try by Baucus but i would advise him to try again.

 

[Oldandtired]

U.S. Taxpayers Can Kiss Some GM, Chrysler Loans Good-Bye - Auto Observer

I never doubted it has been said...I have heard it myself.....but then they may as well say that GM will never recover PERIOD. Afterall, if it can not pay back the debt, it is not generating a profit. If it is not generating a profit, how long can it remain liquid?

Unless, of course, profit is not the goal.

And THAT is another concern I have about a "public option" government run insurance company.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on GM. Our government should not be involved there. The fact that the UAW is part owner tells me GM will never recover anyway. The question now is will we ever allow GM to fail?

I did not want to go there as I did not want to detract from the healthcare debate.....but to be honest with you.....no, I do not believe the mindet of THIS administration and THIS congress will allow GM to fail. Furthermore, and maybe I am paranoid, but I truly believe this new "drive for 2 months" thing is nothing more than an attempt to show an increase in sales so the administration can take credit for the increase.....but economically educated will not fall for it as sales means nothing....profit does...

But, alas, most are not economically sophisticated enough to read between the lines. Not insulting them.....I do not know much about most things....but as for economics....that is my life....and I immediately siad "huh" when I heard the new 2 month deal.

Bear in mind....a 2 month old car can still be sold for a profit....but who will want to buy a car that was returned after two months? Sure it is a bit cheaper.....but it certainly wasn't returned becuase it was a great ride!

 

[VaYank5150]

Baucus just needs to go back and re-work his proposal. Fining and condemning people for not carrying health insurance just seems a bit Un-American to me. We should be fighting for more Freedom & Liberty for the people not less. There are compromises that can be made by all sides and that's what is going to have to happen in the end. Nice try by Baucus but i would advise him to try again.

You never answered my question. IF we do not fine these people, then can I have some of MY liberties back by NOT having to support them when they go for urgent care without insurance that they CHOSE not to have?

 

[Oldandtired]

there are Private nonprofit Coop businesses throughout our country....why the beef NOW silly? Just to whine like a baby against the boogie man?

Interesting how you refer to those with concerns as "whining"....

So if one wants to debate, they are either racists or whiners.

I see.

Carry on...please.....carry on.

if you even read more than a handful of this poster's posts, you would understand what i said about him....no offense meant for you, i am actually enjoying your debate....because you are actually arguing an argument.

care

Sorry about that care....I do not know the poster you are referring to...so I took it as a general statement on your part..

My mistake....

I would like your thoughts on healthcare.....based on your name, I assume you are passionate about healthcare reform.....and I am truly interested in hearing your side.

 

[VaYank5150]

I never doubted it has been said...I have heard it myself.....but then they may as well say that GM will never recover PERIOD. Afterall, if it can not pay back the debt, it is not generating a profit. If it is not generating a profit, how long can it remain liquid?

Unless, of course, profit is not the goal.

And THAT is another concern I have about a "public option" government run insurance company.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on GM. Our government should not be involved there. The fact that the UAW is part owner tells me GM will never recover anyway. The question now is will we ever allow GM to fail?

I did not want to go there as I did not want to detract from the healthcare debate.....but to be honest with you.....no, I do not believe the mindet of THIS administration and THIS congress will allow GM to fail. Furthermore, and maybe I am paranoid, but I truly believe this new "drive for 2 months" thing is nothing more than an attempt to show an increase in sales so the administration can take credit for the increase.....but economically educated will not fall for it as sales means nothing....profit does...

But, alas, most are not economically sophisticated enough to read between the lines. Not insulting them.....I do not know much about most things....but as for economics....that is my life....and I immediately siad "huh" when I heard the new 2 month deal.

Bear in mind....a 2 month old car can still be sold for a profit....but who will want to buy a car that was returned after two months? Sure it is a bit cheaper.....but it certainly wasn't returned becuase it was a great ride!

Many call me naive, (along with other choice words), but I am willing to take Obama at his word that he (Federal Government) does not want to be in the car making business. It truly makes no sense for our government to be involved beyond the point that GM either proves to be sustainable on their own, or allowed to fail because consumers simply do not like their products.

 

[Oldandtired]

Baucus just needs to go back and re-work his proposal. Fining and condemning people for not carrying health insurance just seems a bit Un-American to me. We should be fighting for more Freedom & Liberty for the people not less. There are compromises that can be made by all sides and that's what is going to have to happen in the end. Nice try by Baucus but i would advise him to try again.

You never answered my question. IF we do not fine these people, then can I have some of MY liberties back by NOT having to support them when they go for urgent care without insurance that they CHOSE not to have?

Interesting....

Funny thing...my mantra since this healthcare debate started...

"do what you want with healthcare. Tax me, blast me....Just don't impede on my liberties"

 

[VaYank5150]

Baucus just needs to go back and re-work his proposal. Fining and condemning people for not carrying health insurance just seems a bit Un-American to me. We should be fighting for more Freedom & Liberty for the people not less. There are compromises that can be made by all sides and that's what is going to have to happen in the end. Nice try by Baucus but i would advise him to try again.

You never answered my question. IF we do not fine these people, then can I have some of MY liberties back by NOT having to support them when they go for urgent care without insurance that they CHOSE not to have?

Interesting....

Funny thing...my mantra since this healthcare debate started...

"do what you want with healthcare. Tax me, blast me....Just don't impede on my liberties"

And this may be splitting hairs on my part, but as a human being, I am OK with helping those who simply cannot help themselves. HOWEVER, if given the option to provide for yourself, and you CHOOSE not to? Don't even look in my direction for assistance...

 

[Oldandtired]

I agree with you wholeheartedly on GM. Our government should not be involved there. The fact that the UAW is part owner tells me GM will never recover anyway. The question now is will we ever allow GM to fail?

I did not want to go there as I did not want to detract from the healthcare debate.....but to be honest with you.....no, I do not believe the mindet of THIS administration and THIS congress will allow GM to fail. Furthermore, and maybe I am paranoid, but I truly believe this new "drive for 2 months" thing is nothing more than an attempt to show an increase in sales so the administration can take credit for the increase.....but economically educated will not fall for it as sales means nothing....profit does...

But, alas, most are not economically sophisticated enough to read between the lines. Not insulting them.....I do not know much about most things....but as for economics....that is my life....and I immediately siad "huh" when I heard the new 2 month deal.

Bear in mind....a 2 month old car can still be sold for a profit....but who will want to buy a car that was returned after two months? Sure it is a bit cheaper.....but it certainly wasn't returned becuase it was a great ride!

Many call me naive, (along with other choice words), but I am willing to take Obama at his word that he (Federal Government) does not want to be in the car making business. It truly makes no sense for our government to be involved beyond the point that GM either proves to be sustainable on their own, or allowed to fail because consumers simply do not like their products.

But they had that chance to prove it. And they proved they couldn't.
Chapter 11 may have given them a second chance.
Instead, Obama opted to do what he said he did not want to do.
I ill not call you naive...you are not....trusting is a better word.

Me? Sorry....I am no longer trusting. The day he lied about public financing, I lost interest in him....although as a fiscal conservative, I never truly cared for him anyway.

But now, I watch how he uses words to say one thing and do another without actually "lying"...he is a great "misleader"...

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What if the citizen does not pay the fines imposed on them? What will the next phase be? Look i'm sure Mr. Baucus is a good man but i just don't agree with taking peoples' Freedom & Liberty away in the name of "Better Health Care." Not a good trade-off in my opinion. Our politicians should approach every issue with the idea of promoting more Freedom & Liberty for the People not less. They seem to have forgotten that idea these days. It's all about them now.