See What Tax Cuts For The Wealthy Has Caused:

[bripat9643]

You're confusing things with the people who own them. A factory is not an extension of the person who owns it. A factory may be used in the process of production. But the person who owns it, merely by owning it, produces nothing.

I haven't confused jack squat. People who own factories had to risk their cash so that it could be created. You seem to be implying that the owners don't deserve to be compensated for providing the capital that makes a productive enterprise possible. Do you think your brother in law should be able to use your car anytime he wants without compensating you?

Of course, he could very well manage the factory, as well as own it. But in that case he's a worker as well as an owner. The two are not mutually exclusive. Millions of people own businesses, as well as work there. They're called small business owners.

The factory wouldn't exist unless someone put up the capital to create it. Those people deserve to be compensated for risking their capital, whether they work in the factory or not. Your theory that they are superfluous to the production process is the ultimate idiocy. Nothing would get produced if factories didn't get built.

Ownership and work are two different things. They may overlap, but one is not the other. To take an extreme example, suppose it was possible to own the air, as well as the land and the water. Would you say the owner of the air was "providing" something to workers, by letting them breathe?

Whoever said ownership and work were the same? The bottom line is that no one would have a job if people with capital didn't invest it to build a factory. Your theory that owners are irrelevant to the production process is simply too stupid for words to describe. The air is not a factory. The air existed before human beings appeared on the scene. On other hand, everything in a factory costs money. Someone had to buy it so some turd with a high school diploma can make far more than he's really worth.

 

[FactFinder]

In some cases the owners are the managers as well. In some cases not. In almost every case management has shares in the company, making them owners as well.
But that is irrelevant to the point I made, namely that wealthy people have done far more good that gov't programs.

Comparing apples to oranges are we? A rather feeble attempt to cast dispersion elsewhere? It is is a game you have aptly played for some years now. Apparently you think it still resonates.

All of your base are belong to us.
Thanks for playing.

Glad you are so happy in your happy place. Try not to let reality smack you upside the head.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Communists have killed a hundred million people. People who whitewash that history (you know, leftists) can't be trusted. At all.

How many American citizen have been killed while living and working in the United States by communists?
How many Americans have been killed or injured by faulty products, unsafe meat or produce, or tobacco?

It's easy to win if you stack the deck.

But it's cheating. Guess you don't think you can win otherwise.

You folks should have been with me in the early 1950's. I was a process operator at the Oak Ridge Gaseous Diffusion Plant(ORGDP) also known as K-25. Uranium 238 contains .7% of uranium 235 as it appears in nature. We took the mined material, flourinated it, heated the UO2F2 compound and fed it into a 4400 stage cascade which slowly separated the isotope from the uranium 238. The monel steel pipes in that process were hundreds of miles long and some big enough for a normal si ed man to stand inside. Some of the converters were as big as a small house. The K-33 facility contained 640 GE or Westinghouse electric motors ranging in HP from 2000 to 3400. At it's peak the plant used as much electric power as the city of Chicago.There were five process buildings, K-25, K-27, K-29, K31 and the largest (K-33) was two stories with a partial basement, stood 83 ft. tall and covered about 32 acres. At the time construction was finished it was the third largest steel edifice in the world falling behind the Eifel Tower and the Empire State Building. There was no EPA. There was no OSHA. The safety department consisted of about twelve people and the only thing I ever saw them do was investigate lost time accidents and pass out safety awards every time we got more than a million manhours without a lost time accident.

The light green powder was everywhere. The odor of flourine(F2) and clourinetriflouride(CLF3) hanged heavy around the entire complex and on some days when the atmosphere was still and heavy we would get a sore throat from just breathing ambient air around the place. There was a storage facility for Hydrogen Flouride(HF) and we had a tank farm for it's storage that if breached would have killed a swath of people two miles wide all the way to the east coast of the United States.

I tracked that kind of shit home on the bottom of my street shoes to the carpet where my infant children were crawling and thank goodness through a fluke of being caught in a reduction in force worked there less than ten years.

So far the DOL has approved payment in excess of six billion dollars in claims to the families...usually the survivors of employees of the Oak Ridge complexes who came up with every kind of rare cancer and ailment known to man and some which had never been heard of before.

The place is being dismantled and destroyed as we speak. Some heritage groups tried to make the "U" building at K-25 a national monument because that's where the uranium isotope which was used in the "Little Boy" bomb which was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan in 1945 originated but even the concrete foundations had absorbed so much toxin and radiation that they're having to break everything up into pieces, treat it and bury it.

A company will do anything it can get away with. I've never seen them consider anything they weren't required to and I'm sure I never will. They are motivated by bottom line profit and to hell with everything else.

 

[daveman]

Why should taxes on capital gains be raises to the same level as earned income? WHy don't we lower the tax on earned income to the same level as cap gains?

Lower taxes? You may as well be speaking a foreign language. Leftists don't think it's possible to lower taxes.

Me: we should lower taxes.

Daveman: "Leftists don't think it's possible to lower taxes."


Caveman, I'm a leftist. And I just said we should lower taxes. In the post you quoted.

Congratulations. You're the first leftist I've seen call for lower taxes.

 

[daveman]

See What Tax Cuts For The Wealthy Has Caused:

Certainly nothing good, cause now they think they are somehow above the fray and deserve something more than anyone else.

The resources of the nation belong to the nation. Unless someone is extrarodinarily contributing to the nation they have no more rights to the national resources than anyone. Most of the "placed" individuals have contributed squat diddley.

Nationalizing industry is not a good idea. No, really, it's not.

 

[daveman]

Who determines the "fair share"?
The 51% that now receive a govenrment check?
Alexis de Toqueville predicted THIS shortly after this country was founded.
I remember as a kid one of the neighbors had a Rolls Royce. This man had a hardware store, investments in the stock market and rental houses. When he used to drive down the road my Dad would say "There goes Mr. Parker. He is a hard working man. When you grow up you need to try to be like him. He is a good role model"
Now the tax and spend moocher class says "There goes Mr. Parker. He stole all his money from others and is greedy. He does not care about anyone and is selfish because he has more than anyone else. He does not need that Rolls Royce. He does not need all of those investments and rental houses. He does not pay his fair share in taxes. I DEMAND MORE OF HIS WEALTH AND I DEMAND GOVERNMENT TAKE IT FROM HIM AND GIVE IT TO ME AND OTHERS."

I doubt Mr Parker is one of the 1%, unless you were living in a mansion when you were growing up.

I'll bet Mr Parker paid taxes on those rental homes and the income from those rental homes. In fact, he probably paid a bigger share of his income in taxes then than the top 10% do today.

All speculation. He may have paid shit except to his tax lawyers. At least they are bettter off, heh?

Don't you think there's something wrong with the system when you have to hire lawyers to understand the tax laws?

 

[daveman]

How many American citizen have been killed while living and working in the United States by communists?
How many Americans have been killed or injured by faulty products, unsafe meat or produce, or tobacco?

It's easy to win if you stack the deck.

But it's cheating. Guess you don't think you can win otherwise.

You folks should have been with me in the early 1950's. I was a process operator at the Oak Ridge Gaseous Diffusion Plant(ORGDP) also known as K-25. Uranium 238 contains .7% of uranium 235 as it appears in nature. We took the mined material, flourinated it, heated the UO2F2 compound and fed it into a 4400 stage cascade which slowly separated the isotope from the uranium 238. The monel steel pipes in that process were hundreds of miles long and some big enough for a normal si ed man to stand inside. Some of the converters were as big as a small house. The K-33 facility contained 640 GE or Westinghouse electric motors ranging in HP from 2000 to 3400. At it's peak the plant used as much electric power as the city of Chicago.There were five process buildings, K-25, K-27, K-29, K31 and the largest (K-33) was two stories with a partial basement, stood 83 ft. tall and covered about 32 acres. At the time construction was finished it was the third largest steel edifice in the world falling behind the Eifel Tower and the Empire State Building. There was no EPA. There was no OSHA. The safety department consisted of about twelve people and the only thing I ever saw them do was investigate lost time accidents and pass out safety awards every time we got more than a million manhours without a lost time accident.

The light green powder was everywhere. The odor of flourine(F2) and clourinetriflouride(CLF3) hanged heavy around the entire complex and on some days when the atmosphere was still and heavy we would get a sore throat from just breathing ambient air around the place. There was a storage facility for Hydrogen Flouride(HF) and we had a tank farm for it's storage that if breached would have killed a swath of people two miles wide all the way to the east coast of the United States.

I tracked that kind of shit home on the bottom of my street shoes to the carpet where my infant children were crawling and thank goodness through a fluke of being caught in a reduction in force worked there less than ten years.

So far the DOL has approved payment in excess of six billion dollars in claims to the families...usually the survivors of employees of the Oak Ridge complexes who came up with every kind of rare cancer and ailment known to man and some which had never been heard of before.

The place is being dismantled and destroyed as we speak. Some heritage groups tried to make the "U" building at K-25 a national monument because that's where the uranium isotope which was used in the "Little Boy" bomb which was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan in 1945 originated but even the concrete foundations had absorbed so much toxin and radiation that they're having to break everything up into pieces, treat it and bury it.

A company will do anything it can get away with. I've never seen them consider anything they weren't required to and I'm sure I never will. They are motivated by bottom line profit and to hell with everything else.

Communists were, and are, motivated by power and to hell with everything else.

A hundred million people. Twelve and a half times the population of NYC. All dead due to Communists.

You should have been there, but you'd have been killed, too.

 

[The Rabbi]

How many American citizen have been killed while living and working in the United States by communists?
How many Americans have been killed or injured by faulty products, unsafe meat or produce, or tobacco?

It's easy to win if you stack the deck.

But it's cheating. Guess you don't think you can win otherwise.

You folks should have been with me in the early 1950's. I was a process operator at the Oak Ridge Gaseous Diffusion Plant(ORGDP) also known as K-25. Uranium 238 contains .7% of uranium 235 as it appears in nature. We took the mined material, flourinated it, heated the UO2F2 compound and fed it into a 4400 stage cascade which slowly separated the isotope from the uranium 238. The monel steel pipes in that process were hundreds of miles long and some big enough for a normal si ed man to stand inside. Some of the converters were as big as a small house. The K-33 facility contained 640 GE or Westinghouse electric motors ranging in HP from 2000 to 3400. At it's peak the plant used as much electric power as the city of Chicago.There were five process buildings, K-25, K-27, K-29, K31 and the largest (K-33) was two stories with a partial basement, stood 83 ft. tall and covered about 32 acres. At the time construction was finished it was the third largest steel edifice in the world falling behind the Eifel Tower and the Empire State Building. There was no EPA. There was no OSHA. The safety department consisted of about twelve people and the only thing I ever saw them do was investigate lost time accidents and pass out safety awards every time we got more than a million manhours without a lost time accident.

The light green powder was everywhere. The odor of flourine(F2) and clourinetriflouride(CLF3) hanged heavy around the entire complex and on some days when the atmosphere was still and heavy we would get a sore throat from just breathing ambient air around the place. There was a storage facility for Hydrogen Flouride(HF) and we had a tank farm for it's storage that if breached would have killed a swath of people two miles wide all the way to the east coast of the United States.

I tracked that kind of shit home on the bottom of my street shoes to the carpet where my infant children were crawling and thank goodness through a fluke of being caught in a reduction in force worked there less than ten years.

So far the DOL has approved payment in excess of six billion dollars in claims to the families...usually the survivors of employees of the Oak Ridge complexes who came up with every kind of rare cancer and ailment known to man and some which had never been heard of before.

The place is being dismantled and destroyed as we speak. Some heritage groups tried to make the "U" building at K-25 a national monument because that's where the uranium isotope which was used in the "Little Boy" bomb which was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan in 1945 originated but even the concrete foundations had absorbed so much toxin and radiation that they're having to break everything up into pieces, treat it and bury it.

A company will do anything it can get away with. I've never seen them consider anything they weren't required to and I'm sure I never will. They are motivated by bottom line profit and to hell with everything else.

The Oak Ridge plant was a government facility.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Lower taxes? You may as well be speaking a foreign language. Leftists don't think it's possible to lower taxes.

Me: we should lower taxes.

Daveman: "Leftists don't think it's possible to lower taxes."


Caveman, I'm a leftist. And I just said we should lower taxes. In the post you quoted.

Congratulations. You're the first leftist I've seen call for lower taxes.

Hell...that's where all this deficit came from....Reagan and the Bushes lowering taxes. I was a Republican for thrity years. The last time I voted for one was at the beginning of Reagan's second term and I wish I could take that one back. The only two times I've ever voted Democrat in a national election more than voting for Democrats I was voting AGAINST the "Spend and Borrow" Republicans. Taxes used to cover expenditures and now it's gotten so bad that's impossible. The goddam Republicans never cut spending....not one red cent. With them it's lower taxes at all costs. Right now taxes are lower than they've been in forty years and that's all you can hear from the Republicans...."Lower Taxes!"

 

[The Rabbi]

Me: we should lower taxes.

Daveman: "Leftists don't think it's possible to lower taxes."


Caveman, I'm a leftist. And I just said we should lower taxes. In the post you quoted.

Congratulations. You're the first leftist I've seen call for lower taxes.

Hell...that's where all this deficit came from....Reagan and the Bushes lowering taxes. I was a Republican for thrity years. The last time I voted for one was at the beginning of Reagan's second term and I wish I could take that one back. The only two times I've ever voted Democrat in a national election more than voting for Democrats I was voting AGAINST the "Spend and Borrow" Republicans. Taxes used to cover expenditures and now it's gotten so bad that's impossible. The goddam Republicans never cut spending....not one red cent. With them it's lower taxes at all costs. Right now taxes are lower than they've been in forty years and that's all you can hear from the Republicans...."Lower Taxes!"

Actually the deficit came from higher spending. Courtesy of the Democrats, although the GOP is hardly blameless here.

 

[bripat9643]

Oak Ridge is a government owned facility.

Whenever liberal turds blame the private sector for some horror, it invariably turns out to be the government that's responsible.

You folks should have been with me in the early 1950's. I was a process operator at the Oak Ridge Gaseous Diffusion Plant(ORGDP) also known as K-25. Uranium 238 contains .7% of uranium 235 as it appears in nature. We took the mined material, flourinated it, heated the UO2F2 compound and fed it into a 4400 stage cascade which slowly separated the isotope from the uranium 238. The monel steel pipes in that process were hundreds of miles long and some big enough for a normal si ed man to stand inside. Some of the converters were as big as a small house. The K-33 facility contained 640 GE or Westinghouse electric motors ranging in HP from 2000 to 3400. At it's peak the plant used as much electric power as the city of Chicago.There were five process buildings, K-25, K-27, K-29, K31 and the largest (K-33) was two stories with a partial basement, stood 83 ft. tall and covered about 32 acres. At the time construction was finished it was the third largest steel edifice in the world falling behind the Eifel Tower and the Empire State Building. There was no EPA. There was no OSHA. The safety department consisted of about twelve people and the only thing I ever saw them do was investigate lost time accidents and pass out safety awards every time we got more than a million manhours without a lost time accident.

The light green powder was everywhere. The odor of flourine(F2) and clourinetriflouride(CLF3) hanged heavy around the entire complex and on some days when the atmosphere was still and heavy we would get a sore throat from just breathing ambient air around the place. There was a storage facility for Hydrogen Flouride(HF) and we had a tank farm for it's storage that if breached would have killed a swath of people two miles wide all the way to the east coast of the United States.

I tracked that kind of shit home on the bottom of my street shoes to the carpet where my infant children were crawling and thank goodness through a fluke of being caught in a reduction in force worked there less than ten years.

So far the DOL has approved payment in excess of six billion dollars in claims to the families...usually the survivors of employees of the Oak Ridge complexes who came up with every kind of rare cancer and ailment known to man and some which had never been heard of before.

The place is being dismantled and destroyed as we speak. Some heritage groups tried to make the "U" building at K-25 a national monument because that's where the uranium isotope which was used in the "Little Boy" bomb which was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan in 1945 originated but even the concrete foundations had absorbed so much toxin and radiation that they're having to break everything up into pieces, treat it and bury it.

A company will do anything it can get away with. I've never seen them consider anything they weren't required to and I'm sure I never will. They are motivated by bottom line profit and to hell with everything else.

 

[daveman]

Me: we should lower taxes.

Daveman: "Leftists don't think it's possible to lower taxes."


Caveman, I'm a leftist. And I just said we should lower taxes. In the post you quoted.

Congratulations. You're the first leftist I've seen call for lower taxes.

Hell...that's where all this deficit came from....Reagan and the Bushes lowering taxes. I was a Republican for thrity years. The last time I voted for one was at the beginning of Reagan's second term and I wish I could take that one back. The only two times I've ever voted Democrat in a national election more than voting for Democrats I was voting AGAINST the "Spend and Borrow" Republicans. Taxes used to cover expenditures and now it's gotten so bad that's impossible. The goddam Republicans never cut spending....not one red cent. With them it's lower taxes at all costs. Right now taxes are lower than they've been in forty years and that's all you can hear from the Republicans...."Lower Taxes!"

So you support Democrats. Who never cut spending.

Yeah, that'll show the GOP!

 

[bripat9643]

Hell...that's where all this deficit came from....Reagan and the Bushes lowering taxes. I was a Republican for thrity years. The last time I voted for one was at the beginning of Reagan's second term and I wish I could take that one back. The only two times I've ever voted Democrat in a national election more than voting for Democrats I was voting AGAINST the "Spend and Borrow" Republicans. Taxes used to cover expenditures and now it's gotten so bad that's impossible. The goddam Republicans never cut spending....not one red cent. With them it's lower taxes at all costs. Right now taxes are lower than they've been in forty years and that's all you can hear from the Republicans...."Lower Taxes!"

So you used to be a Republican, but you think the way to cut spending is to vote for Democrats?

Yeah, right.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oak Ridge is a government owned facility.

Whenever liberal turds blame the private sector for some horror, it invariably turns out to be the government that's responsible.

QFT.
Whenever someone accuses the private sector of causing problems the real culprit is usually the government somewhere.

 

[daveman]

Oak Ridge is a government owned facility.

Whenever liberal turds blame the private sector for some horror, it invariably turns out to be the government that's responsible.

QFT.
Whenever someone accuses the private sector of causing problems the real culprit is usually the government somewhere.

But remember: The government can safely, efficiently, and compassionately manage your healthcare.

 

[Sundial]

True, not everything with a price is a commodity. But labor is a commodity in general because price is the overwhelming consideration.
THe interests of everyone are furthered when the interests of everyone are furthered, not just the welfare class.
Look at the top inventors/owners of the Fortune 500. How many people work for them and collect a paycheck and benefits? How much in taxes have they and their companies paid? How many spin off businesses were created from their efforts? How much money have stockholders made from their efforts? What would the country look like if we had said "OK at some point you've made enough money and you've reached that point"?

You seem to think that the owners of those companies are the people who run them - their CEOs. They're not. The stockholders are the owners. The CEOs are employees. They're workers. (Highly paid, but workers nonetheless.)

The people who do all those things - invent, spin off, make the companies successful - they're all workers. The people who make money off their efforts are the shareholders.

Before you attack me for attacking shareholders - I'm not. I'm merely pointing out they're enriched by the efforts of others - a point you've just made yourself.

In some cases the owners are the managers as well. In some cases not. In almost every case management has shares in the company, making them owners as well.
But that is irrelevant to the point I made, namely that wealthy people have done far more good that gov't programs.

Like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid? Unemployment insurance, disability, safety regulations? Highways, GPS, the Internet? The courts, the police, the law itself? Public education? Money? National defense?

Even if you give credit to the rich for what they have, rather than what they do, I don't see how they've done more than that.

Anyway, your premise is false: the wealth of a nation is a function of the productivity of its workers; not the wealth of the rich.

 

[The Rabbi]

You seem to think that the owners of those companies are the people who run them - their CEOs. They're not. The stockholders are the owners. The CEOs are employees. They're workers. (Highly paid, but workers nonetheless.)

The people who do all those things - invent, spin off, make the companies successful - they're all workers. The people who make money off their efforts are the shareholders.

Before you attack me for attacking shareholders - I'm not. I'm merely pointing out they're enriched by the efforts of others - a point you've just made yourself.

In some cases the owners are the managers as well. In some cases not. In almost every case management has shares in the company, making them owners as well.
But that is irrelevant to the point I made, namely that wealthy people have done far more good that gov't programs.

Like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid? Unemployment insurance, disability, safety regulations? Highways, GPS, the Internet? The courts, the police, the law itself? Public education? Money? National defense?

Even if you give credit to the rich for what they have, rather than what they do, I don't see how they've done more than that.

Anyway, your premise is false: the wealth of a nation is a function of the productivity of its workers; not the wealth of the rich.

Social Security etc etc ad nauseam are all funded by contributions from private businesses. They are simply giving back money they already took from productive people.
It is not my premise that the wealth of the nation is the wealth of the rich. That is so idiotic only someone like you could believe it. My premise is that private enterprise is what has created the living standard we have. Government has at best created the circumstances for it, at worst and more typically retarded that progress.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It began with Reagan's trillion's in cuts but look closely at the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 and it's not rocket science....the wealthy no longer pay their fair share:

Their kids don't go 10,000 miles across the globe to fight and die in the wars they start either

Just say it... in libland, everybody else paying 100% is fair.

Whatever.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Only in America do people line up in droves to file their tax returns so they can get all their taxes back and then some, and then complain about the 35,000,000 or so who make that possible.

 

[JimH52]

Ronald Reagan is applauding in his tomb! The Trickle Dow theory at its best!