Second Amendment Rights

[Old Rocks]

Given the adamant support for open carry by the 'Conservatives', I really believe that at the GOP Convention, all there should be packing. Make the Convention even more fun to watch.

 

[Old Rocks]

Come on now, 'Conservatives', don't you think this would be a good idea? After all, that would prevent a terrorist attack, wouldn't it? All the delegates packing, what a wonderful idea.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I just read that they're refusing to let guns in.

Repubs/GOP - biggest pansy hypiocrites ever.

But you can bet the guards around Trumpery and Carnival Cruz et all will be packing.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

And yet -

Donald Trump vows: ‘We’re going to win with our Second Amendment’

 

[Centinel]

Each of us has a natural right to keep and bear arms. However, a property owner also has the right to place conditions on the use of his property. If a property owner says that I may not carry arms on his property, then that is his prerogative. This has nothing to do with government. It is simply the choice of private individuals or groups of private individuals.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Given the adamant support for open carry by the 'Conservatives', I really believe that at the GOP Convention, all there should be packing. Make the Convention even more fun to watch.

Carry arms, whether openly or carry and conceal are NOT protected by the 2A at all.

We can see this in that the NRA supports carry and conceal permits, if you have a permit, it's not a right, and if the NRA supports it, you know that it's not a right.

In Presser they said it wasn't a right, in Heller the reaffirmed Presser.

There has never, ever been a right to carry arms. Sorry.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Each of us has a natural right to keep and bear arms. However, a property owner also has the right to place conditions on the use of his property. If a property owner says that I may not carry arms on his property, then that is his prerogative. This has nothing to do with government. It is simply the choice of private individuals or groups of private individuals.

Natural? So, guns appear in nature do they?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Apparently the GOP agrees with me ...

 

[Centinel]

Each of us has a natural right to keep and bear arms. However, a property owner also has the right to place conditions on the use of his property. If a property owner says that I may not carry arms on his property, then that is his prerogative. This has nothing to do with government. It is simply the choice of private individuals or groups of private individuals.

Natural? So, guns appear in nature do they?

Nope.

 

[TheOldSchool]

 

[ZackB]

There's no need to have guns at the Republican convention. Most of the participants will be white.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Each of us has a natural right to keep and bear arms. However, a property owner also has the right to place conditions on the use of his property. If a property owner says that I may not carry arms on his property, then that is his prerogative. This has nothing to do with government. It is simply the choice of private individuals or groups of private individuals.

Natural? So, guns appear in nature do they?

Nope.

So how can there be a natural right to have guns then?

 

[TheOldSchool]

There's no need to have guns at the Republican convention. Most of the participants will be white.

Be careful. There's an animal refuge near Cleveland. It might be captured by right wing domestic terrorists.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There's no need to have guns at the Republican convention. Most of the participants will be white.

Don't need to be going shooting them there whites.

 

[ZackB]

Personally, I don't think that open carry is a good idea. I have a carry license and I carry every day. However, I carry concealed. I also know how to handle a firearm safely and would never think of pulling it in any situation unless it was a matter of life and death and was an absolute last resort to protect myself or others from imminent death. I

The thing is, if you openly carry on your hip then somebody can easily sucker punch you are take the gun away from you. Even with "locking" holsters all a bad guy has to do is a minimum of research to know how to extract the weapon. The result is that you are virtually giving a gun to a criminal. That is not a good thing.

Secondly, think about the scenarios which could cause you to draw a weapon. Clearly in your home you can pull your weapon and shoot an intruder. But how about if a bad guy tries to rob a convenience store or liquor store while you are inside? You can't just pull your gun and start blasting away lest you put everybody in danger. If you are in a robbery situation in a public place and the bad guy sees that gun on your hip he may take it from you as he points his gun at your face. Then you have put another gun into the stream of criminal activity.

For self defense purposes I much prefer for the bad guy to not know I have a gun. It will keep the gun away from the criminal and prevent it from making me the focus of the criminal, allowing me a tactical advantage if the situation turns deadly and I have to unholster my weapon.

I find that most people who carry have not thoroughly thought through the potential scenarios in which you may have to unholster your weapon - robbery in public area around other innocent people; robbery directed at you in, say, a parking lot; a car jacking, directed either at you or at someone near you; a hostage situation; workplace violence; etc... Have you actually thought about how it's going to go down? When it is appropriate, and legal, to unholster your gun and discharge it. If you carry you better think about it and know when it is legal and when it is not legal.

I suppose that the justification for open carry in public is deterrence. That is, nobody will want to engage in criminal activity if they know someone is carrying. But how would you deal with that if you are the criminal? You would pull your gun, hold the open carry person at gunpoint and take his or her gun away from them. The point is that these things happen fast. You may very well not even be in a position to draw your firearm before the bad guy starts waiving a gun in your face.

You are not a cop because you openly carry. You cannot just whip it out anytime you are in a bad situation. You are not a hero. If you are in a public area it may escalate the already bad situation and put everyone in much more danger than previously existed before you drew your gun.

There should be some happy medium that can be reached. For example, in a rural area there is no reason not to allow open carry. But in a suburban area with a dense population, allowing a lot of exposed firearms to float around seems like a tragedy waiting to happen. However, if you carry concealed you can move about freely among people and nobody knows that you are carrying. But if a psycho decides to pull out an AR 15 at Six Flags and opens fire and you are in the vicinity, it is incumbent on you to unholster your concealed peace and neutralize the threat so that people do not die.

Finally, if you can legally carry concealed, then your second amendment rights are not being infringed upon. Open carry is not necessary to ensure that we have full use of our second amendment right. There are tons of methods and systems you can use to comfortably carry concealed. I carry a large, heavy Glock 4O long slide 10mm in a shoulder holster underneath my jacket. Nobody knows I have it, and God help the poor fucker who ever causes me to unholster it. When I am not wearing a jacket I downgrade to a Glock 17 holstered inside my waist band , and carry my G40 10mm in my brief case where I keep it handy. I hope that I never have to unholster either to deal with a deadly situation. But if I do have to I have the ability to unleash all unholy hell on the perp. And I do thing strictly with concealed carry pieces.

The biggest thing I can advise is that if you are going to carry, open or concealed, take 2 courses, or get individualized training in these 2 areas: gun safety and shooting, and self defense tactics.

One final bit of advice: carry a 3-4" fixed blade knife. Carry in a pant pocket, on your belt, jacket picket, boot, or around your neck. I personally carry a 3 inch blade in a hard plastic scabbard that I hand around my neck with a lanyard and keep tucked behind my shirt. A knife can enable you to neutralize the threat quickly at close range and may help you avoid some of the excessive interrogation that follows from police after you shoot someone. In other words, if the perp is a bad guy and is in such close proximity to your person to make a knife a viable weapon of self defense, then the police may infer that the threat level was more serious and your actions are justifiable. However, if you shoot a guy across the room who may or may not shoot someone, then your actions will be scrutinized much more closely by the police.

 

[Centinel]

Each of us has a natural right to keep and bear arms. However, a property owner also has the right to place conditions on the use of his property. If a property owner says that I may not carry arms on his property, then that is his prerogative. This has nothing to do with government. It is simply the choice of private individuals or groups of private individuals.

Natural? So, guns appear in nature do they?

Nope.

So how can there be a natural right to have guns then?

Your body appears in nature, and you have a natural right to defend it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Personally, I don't think that open carry is a good idea. I have a carry license and I carry every day. However, I carry concealed. I also know how to handle a firearm safely and would never think of pulling it in any situation unless it was a matter of life and death and was an absolute last resort to protect myself or others from imminent death. I

The thing is, if you openly carry on your hip then somebody can easily sucker punch you are take the gun away from you. Even with "locking" holsters all a bad guy has to do is a minimum of research to know how to extract the weapon. The result is that you are virtually giving a gun to a criminal. That is not a good thing.

Secondly, think about the scenarios which could cause you to draw a weapon. Clearly in your home you can pull your weapon and shoot an intruder. But how about if a bad guy tries to rob a convenience store or liquor store while you are inside? You can't just pull your gun and start blasting away lest you put everybody in danger. If you are in a robbery situation in a public place and the bad guy sees that gun on your hip he may take it from you as he points his gun at your face. Then you have put another gun into the stream of criminal activity.

For self defense purposes I much prefer for the bad guy to not know I have a gun. It will keep the gun away from the criminal and prevent it from making me the focus of the criminal, allowing me a tactical advantage if the situation turns deadly and I have to unholster my weapon.

I find that most people who carry have not thoroughly thought through the potential scenarios in which you may have to unholster your weapon - robbery in public area around other innocent people; robbery directed at you in, say, a parking lot; a car jacking, directed either at you or at someone near you; a hostage situation; workplace violence; etc... Have you actually thought about how it's going to go down? When it is appropriate, and legal, to unholster your gun and discharge it. If you carry you better think about it and know when it is legal and when it is not legal.

I suppose that the justification for open carry in public is deterrence. That is, nobody will want to engage in criminal activity if they know someone is carrying. But how would you deal with that if you are the criminal? You would pull your gun, hold the open carry person at gunpoint and take his or her gun away from them. The point is that these things happen fast. You may very well not even be in a position to draw your firearm before the bad guy starts waiving a gun in your face.

You are not a cop because you openly carry. You cannot just whip it out anytime you are in a bad situation. You are not a hero. If you are in a public area it may escalate the already bad situation and put everyone in much more danger than previously existed before you drew your gun.

There should be some happy medium that can be reached. For example, in a rural area there is no reason not to allow open carry. But in a suburban area with a dense population, allowing a lot of exposed firearms to float around seems like a tragedy waiting to happen. However, if you carry concealed you can move about freely among people and nobody knows that you are carrying. But if a psycho decides to pull out an AR 15 at Six Flags and opens fire and you are in the vicinity, it is incumbent on you to unholster your concealed peace and neutralize the threat so that people do not die.

Finally, if you can legally carry concealed, then your second amendment rights are not being infringed upon. Open carry is not necessary to ensure that we have full use of our second amendment right. There are tons of methods and systems you can use to comfortably carry concealed. I carry a large, heavy Glock 4O long slide 10mm in a shoulder holster underneath my jacket. Nobody knows I have it, and God help the poor fucker who ever causes me to unholster it. When I am not wearing a jacket I downgrade to a Glock 17 holstered inside my waist band , and carry my G40 10mm in my brief case where I keep it handy. I hope that I never have to unholster either to deal with a deadly situation. But if I do have to I have the ability to unleash all unholy hell on the perp. And I do thing strictly with concealed carry pieces.

The biggest thing I can advise is that if you are going to carry, open or concealed, take 2 courses, or get individualized training in these 2 areas: gun safety and shooting, and self defense tactics.

One final bit of advice: carry a 3-4" fixed blade knife. Carry in a pant pocket, on your belt, jacket picket, boot, or around your neck. I personally carry a 3 inch blade in a hard plastic scabbard that I hand around my neck with a lanyard and keep tucked behind my shirt. A knife can enable you to neutralize the threat quickly at close range and may help you avoid some of the excessive interrogation that follows from police after you shoot someone. In other words, if the perp is a bad guy and is in such close proximity to your person to make a knife a viable weapon of self defense, then the police may infer that the threat level was more serious and your actions are justifiable. However, if you shoot a guy across the room who may or may not shoot someone, then your actions will be scrutinized much more closely by the police.

You live in a constant state of fear. That's got to be rough. Even for a white guy.

 

[Iceweasel]

Given the adamant support for open carry by the 'Conservatives', I really believe that at the GOP Convention, all there should be packing. Make the Convention even more fun to watch.

They could do it, no problem. Grown ups can handle being around guns. A bunch of armed left wingers? Now that would turn into a shit storm.

 

[Old Rocks]

Given what we are seeing the two leading candidates for the GOP doing and saying right now, I don't think that is a safe assumption, Ice.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Each of us has a natural right to keep and bear arms. However, a property owner also has the right to place conditions on the use of his property. If a property owner says that I may not carry arms on his property, then that is his prerogative. This has nothing to do with government. It is simply the choice of private individuals or groups of private individuals.

Natural? So, guns appear in nature do they?

Nope.

So how can there be a natural right to have guns then?

Your body appears in nature, and you have a natural right to defend it.

Is that your argument? Are you serious?

The 2A isn't about self defense at all anyway.

Basically what you're saying is that a person has a right to any object that can defend themselves. Like tanks, F-15s, nukes, SAMs. But you don't have this right.

The rights in the 2A are designed to protect the militia. This does NOT mean the militia has the rights. Individuals have the rights.
They are, the right to own a weapons and the right to be in the militia.

There is a right to self defense, but it doesn't come from the 2A.