Sean Hannity Visits the Minutemen Volunteers in Arizona

[freeandfun1]

Free, I'm not blaming the employers, but if there's no work for illegals to be had in America, they sure won't be coming over as much!

I agree. But as long as Americans scream for low cost services, etc., there will be jobs for illegals. It is a lot like the exporting of manufacturing overseas. We export manufacturing because Americans want to pay low prices. So we end up with having to decide 1 of 3 choices....

1) Do I pay $50 for a t-shirt made in America
2) Do I pay $10 for a t-shirt made in China by a Chinese company that is hired by an American company to make it.
3) Do I pay $5 for a t-shirt made in China by a Chinese company selling direct through commercial outlets (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc.)

In regards to illegals, we have to decide:

1) Do I pay $50,000 for a landscape job performed by legal Americans
2) Do I pay $25,000 for the same landscape job but performed by illegal aliens working for a US company
3) Do I pay $10,000 for the same landcape job but performed by an illegal company made up of illegal aliens.

Most American will choose #3 and bitch because 1 nor 2 can meet the price of 3 while never considering what causes the price increases of 1 and 2.

Sure, I guess the 4th option is don't buy a t-shirt and don't have your yard landscaped.

Let me give you an example of another reason why illegals are often preferred employees:

Recently my wife and I paid a landscape company $50,000 to landscape our front and back yard. I assume that all the workers were illegal because 1) they only spoke Spanish and 2) they brought a croc pot to work everyday and they all shared their food (Americans would demand an hour lunch that would take two hours and they would go eat at Burger King for $7.00 each).

They ripped out the old landscape and replaced the new landscape within 3 days. And they did an excellent job.

Now, on the other hand, I hired a handyman and his crew to put in some french doors, a doggy door, a hanging pot-rack, and a new sink. They have been working on the project for nearly two months. Why? Because they don't show up when they say they are, usually because they are hung over, stoned or just decided not to work that day. The Americans have proven to be the most unreliable of the workers. Over the years I have hired many, many "handymen" to do work and in almost every case, the Americans end up being the ones that take the longest and do the poorest job.

I'm not saying that there isn't anything wrong with illegal immigration. There is. But as long as Americans can't/won't do the jobs right, on time and for a decent price, we are always going to have some level of illegal immigration.

Just my thoughts on it all. I honestly wish I knew how to stop it. The only thing that I think will work is the guest worker program. But for that to work, Bush MUST shutdown the border until it is implemented.

 

[Trinity]

What about the businesses that depend on this cheap labor? And yes its true, no Americans I know are going to lay drywall 12-14 hrs a day for 10.00/hr, go ahead take a survey on that.

Step 2 will hurt economies and is not doable.

Actually I have to disagree here, I know of 2 family members who did just that for around $10.00 an hour working 12 to 14 hours a day!

 

[Trinity]

Often employers are forced to hire illegals BY upholding the law. If a Mexican or any other immigrant applies for a job and they have a green card / social security number, then you cannot deny them employment - whether they are fakes or not. If you deny them a job and say that you think they are fakes, then you risk being sued for unlawful employment.

At the risk of sounding stupid here, please explain how can illegals or even legal immigrants that are not citizens have any right to sue anyone?

 

[freeandfun1]

At the risk of sounding stupid here, please explain how can illegals or even legal immigrants that are not citizens have any right to sue anyone?

I think I mis-typed. Sorry.

What I mean is....

If you refuse to hire somebody just because you *think* they might be illegal, and it turns out they are not, you could get sued. Therefore, many employers just don't fight it. Even if they think the docs are fakes, they let it slide because they are afraid of being wrong.

Now, as far as your question....

You don't have to be a citizen to sue. Even foreign nationals can sue an American in America.

 

[freeandfun1]

Look at this story:

Illegal immigrants arrested in raids sue Wal-Mart

The plaintiffs say they worked at least 56 hours a week and were not paid time and a half for overtime, hours worked beyond 40 a week. They say they were paid $350-$500 a week.

Okay, now let us use the numbers they provide...

$6.00/HR for 40 hours equals $240.00. If they worked 16 hours per week in overtime, that is another $144.00 (16 hours x $9.00/HR). For total pay of $384 per week. If you use the $500 per week high range, then they must have been getting around $8.00 per hour for a 56 hour week.

If they were making minimum wage, which in NJ is $5.15/HR, then for a 60 hour week, they would have made $360.00 per week including overtime.

From what everybody has been saying, illegals get jobs because they are willing to work for less than minimum wage. That is not what this article bares out......

Here's another one....

Possibly Illegal Mexican Immigrants Get Discrimination Settlement
Ten Mexican immigrants who alleged they faced daily ethnic insults on the job won a $600,000 settlement of their discrimination lawsuit. Attorneys for the workers and for the EEOC didn't know whether the plaintiffs were documented immigrants, but U.S. labor laws also protect illegal immigrants. What about THIS one!

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT SUES THE COUPLE ACCUSED OF SHOOTING HIM

Oscar Hernandez Pinto was illegally crossing the border with about 30 other people in Santa Cruz County in Arizona when he was shot at and hit in the arm. The couple whose land the immigrants were on, Jerry and Jane Chap, were arrested, but neither as yet has been charged with any crime in connection with the shooting.

Mr. Pinto has, however, taken matters into his own hands, filing suit against the couple for assault and battery. He is seeking $ 250,000 in compensatory damages and $ 500,000 in punitive damages. He currently remains in a hospital in Mexico receiving treatment for his injuries.

He was ILLEGALY trespassing on private property!!!! They were within their rights to shoot him!

 

[Trinity]

I think I mis-typed. Sorry.

What I mean is....

If you refuse to hire somebody just because you *think* they might be illegal, and it turns out they are not, you could get sued. Therefore, many employers just don't fight it. Even if they think the docs are fakes, they let it slide because they are afraid of being wrong.

Now, as far as your question....

You don't have to be a citizen to sue. Even foreign nationals can sue an American in America.

Thankyou!

Still doesn't make any sense to me, guess I'll have to do some research on that issue!

 

[Stephanie]

Why dosen't Mexico do more, to improve THEIR own country, they have the friggin oil in their country. Then maybe their people will want to stay in their own country.?????????? Why do we have to take on all their poor, because their goverment won't do it for them???? I agree we need some of the workers, and if they want to come here, on work passes and work, fine, but then go back home.

 

[freeandfun1]

Why dosen't Mexico do more, to improve THEIR own country, they have the friggin oil in their country. Then maybe their people will want to stay in their own country.?????????? Why do we have to take on all their poor, because their goverment won't do it for them???? I agree we need some of the workers, and if they want to come here, on work passes and work, fine, but then go back home.

Many believe, and even I am starting to fall into this camp, that this is all planned. That it is part of the Mexicanization of America. Mexicans are very proud of their country (don't know why they come here then, but they do and you see their flags all over the Southwest) and it is thought that their government's plan is to "invade" us much as Texas was "invaded" by the Anglos in the early 1800's. Once their numbers are large enough here, then it is thought they will push to "rejoin" Mexico.

There is another camp (those that believe in the black helicopters - if you get what I mean) that believe this is a plan between the elites of the Americas to turn all of North America into one big region controlled by a few.

The Mexican leadership have all the money they want/can use. Therefore, they would rather see their poor and unwanted come here so that we, being the nice folks we are, will do for them (the poor people) what Mexico is not WILLING to do. Take care of them.

 

[Trinity]

Just came across this.......................



INVASION USA
ACLU aiding illegal entry
into U.S.?
Minuteman spokesman charges group with criminal activity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 15, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

American Civil Liberties Union activists shadowing the Minuteman Project at the U.S.-Mexican border in Arizona are actively aiding and abetting aliens attempting to enter the country illegally, said a spokesman for the volunteer civilian force.

Grey Deacon told Joseph Farah's nationally syndicated "WorldNetDaily RadioActive" audience yesterday that ACLU monitors sent to the border to watch Minuteman activity and report civil-liberties abuses to authorities have begun flashing lights, sounding horns and warning off illegals and their "coyote" human smugglers from entering territory patrolled by the volunteers.


"They are actively engaging in criminal activity," said Deacon.

Deacon said the ACLU activists are resorting to new tactics because of the success the Minuteman Project is having in assisting the Border Patrol in spotting illegal aliens and in generating publicity about the insecure U.S.-Mexico border.

The ACLU dispatched its representatives to the 23-mile section of the Arizona border patrolled by the Minutemen after predicting the group would abuse the rights of illegal aliens. No such abuses have materialized to date.

"The ACLU's position is that illegal aliens have a right to enter our border and stay in this country as long as they want," said Deacon. "That's what one of the leaders of the group told me personally."

Deacon said the ACLU representatives make noises and flash lights as a signal to the illegals and their human smugglers that the area is being patrolled. Thus, he said, those intent on entering understand they should move on to other areas of the border that are wide open for illegal entry.

The Minuteman Project has attracted hundreds of volunteers, many legally carrying guns and waving flags, from across the country. They plan to keep watch around the clock until the end of the month, intimidating illegal aliens with their presence and alerting the Border Patrol via cell phones or radios when they see people crossing.

Just as important, they want to send a message to the White House and the rest of the country that something must be done about the country's border policies.

President Bush has referred to the Minutemen as "vigilantes." And some Border Patrol officials have suggested members of the group are interfering with the government's work.

The ACLU has claimed the group is creating a "powder-keg situation" on the border that could lead to violence.

Since the volunteers began arriving March 30, the number of illegal immigrant apprehensions along the stretch of border has dropped significantly.

"It's worked," said Chris Simcox, one of two primary organizers. "The news is going across the border, and we've virtually shut down this whole area."

In addition to assistance from the ACLU, illegals – including drug-runners – are getting assistance from the Mexican army, say Border Patrol sources and other officials including a U.S. congressman.

Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus, has denounced the Mexican military for escorting illegals, their "coyote" human smugglers and drug-runners to other parts of the border unpatrolled by the Minutemen.

"President Bush should publicly denounce Mexico's latest act to curb U.S. law," said Tancredo. "The president of Mexico is threatening to sue any member of the Minutemen who have contact with a Mexican national, threatening to take the U.S. into the International Court of Justice at The Hague over the passage of Prop 200 in Arizona, and is providing transportation to Mexican nationals trying to sneak into the U.S. One could say he is acting in the best interest of his nation. Isn't it unfortunate we cannot say the same thing about President Bush?"

Border Patrol sources say the Mexican army recently moved about 1,000 troops to the Agua Prieta region, just south of where the Minutemen are. These troops, the sources say, are diverting all of the illegal alien and drug-smuggling traffic away from the Minutemen.

The volunteers focused on the border area near Naco, Ariz., because it had become one of the highest traffic corridors for border-crossing illegal aliens. Last year, more than 40 percent of the 1.15 million illegal aliens caught by the Border Patrol were taken into custody in the southern Arizona region.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43812

 

[Trinity]

KERRY MARSALA
What Illegal Aliens Have Done for You

We live in a country that many dream of. We are free to vote, choose our jobs, our housing, our education, our religion and even free to speak our minds. The United States is a unique blip in the history of mankind. There has been no other nation before like us. Many people from all walks of life are literally finding any way they can to become a part of who we are.
Most people from foreign lands come here to America and go through our system to become a voting and contributing citizen legally. They see the value in doing things the right way and abide by our laws. How honorable these people are. They see more value in obeying the laws written and established than many of our natural-born citizens do. These law-abiding immigrants who yearn to become U.S. citizens need to be praised with heaping mounds of gratitude. They have brought their dreams, cultures and desires for freedom with them and have integrated themselves into becoming patriotic American citizens.

But, we still have those who seek to skirt around our laws and enter our country illegally, and we have those who think they must let the lawbreakers be rewarded for bad behavior. Bad behavior from anyone should never be rewarded or tolerated. It brings about only the degeneration of societal standards.

We can find many things immigrants have brought to our country, which used to be known as the 'Great American Melting Pot.' But what have those who come here illegally brought us?

Education

Over-crowded classrooms, due in part to illegals getting free education once here. Due to our schools having higher demographics of those unable to speak this country's language, we need more English as a second language certified aids and teachers, but there isn't enough state funding to supply the demand. Skewed scoring within the No Child Left Behind Act, those who cannot speak English or very little of our language score significantly lower, thusly pulling down the scoring of many school districts. The demand on the free lunch and breakfast programs increases. Many illegal families here do not make enough to feed their offspring adequately.

Medical

With over-crowded hospitals, many illegals in our ACCHS program are causing emergency rooms to be overfilled. Hospitals have closed their doors. Get sick at the border and the Mexican ambulance drives you over to the American side for free health care. The hospitals can no longer absorb the free health care doled out. Medical insurance costs rise for the rest of America in order to support all the free health care programs.

Employment

With an over-flooded market of people looking for work, illegals are taken advantage of because employers feel they can pay them less than a citizen. Teens are losing minimum wage job opportunities. Companies are hiring illegals to do the work for less than minimum. Construction and landscape workers cannot compete with the illegals that are being hired for less pay.

Crime

Over-crowded prisons: what is the latest statistic on the criminals in our country's prisons that are here illegally? Increased population pours over the borders (north and south). Many homeowners are witnessing the destruction of their property and don't feel safe within their abodes. The human traffickers are using the illegals to run drugs, prostitute themselves and enslave them to a life that was supposed to be better than from whence they came. The 'coyotes' that bleed the illegals by charging them astronomical amounts of money to smuggle them here into our country is disgusting. From this we've had an all-out western shootout right here in Arizona.

Nationally

Over-flooding waves of illegals come into our country from north and south. This brought about a danger to our freedom that none of us could have possibly imagined on that fateful day of 9/11. We lost 3,000 souls that day when the marked planes of death were flown by those, who were here illegally, into our places of work. Due to the influx of illegals, our armed forces have been called to action. They now are separated from their loved ones, bombed, shot, threatened and berated by many who call themselves America-loving patriots. Due to the reality of illegals, our country can no longer turn a blind eye and just grant the lawbreakers amnesty or whatever else the politicos want to call it.

These points as to what illegal aliens have brought to this nation is only the tip of an imploding dilemma because we are refusing to enforce our own laws. We have only begun to skim the top of this country's problem with lawbreakers.

The enemy has filtered through the system under the shadow of chaotic blindness. They climb our walls, cut our fences, out-run the Border Patrol and flagrantly thumb their noses at our laws. For some reason, we let them and want to give them all the benefits -- just for being criminals. There are more benefits to being a criminal in our country today than in being an abiding citizen or an obedient immigrant that goes through the proper channels to become a part of what we offer. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Just what has the lack of law enforcement in this country done for you? What have illegal aliens breaking our laws done for you? It has made your world more expensive and fearful. That’s exactly what it has done for you. We need enforcement. Period. We do not need namby-pamby, wishy-washy, "gee, it's okay folks, go ahead and break our laws, because we don't really mean them anyway."



http://www.azconservative.org/marsala2.htm

 

[Gem]

In response to the problem of high prices, I think people are overlooking the capitalist option.

We shut the border, allowing only legal, documented workers into the country, and suddenly your landscaper shoots his costs from $20 a week to $60 a week, siting legal employment as the reason.

A guy down the street, who has done well for himself in the business world and hates his job has been thinking of retiring decides there is an opportunity at hand...he retires 5 years early and hires his highschool aged son and his son's 4 best friends as grass-mowers, weed-pullers, etc. He hires an actual landscaper to oversee them and tell them what to do...he offers his services for $30 a week.

Sacrifices will be made...you're still paying $10 bucks more than you used to, and sure, the highschool kids don't always do everything perfectly...but the border would be secure...we would be able to have legal immigrants doing jobs illegal ones used to...and we could be making strides towards knowing that the next 9-11 won't come from a terrorist running across the section of border not guarded by the minutemen.

 

[OCA]

Why dosen't Mexico do more, to improve THEIR own country, they have the friggin oil in their country. Then maybe their people will want to stay in their own country.?????????? Why do we have to take on all their poor, because their goverment won't do it for them???? I agree we need some of the workers, and if they want to come here, on work passes and work, fine, but then go back home.

We take on their poor because that is what America has always sttod for, plain and simple. Remember the huge influx of immigrants at the beginning of the 20th century? All poor.

I think we all need to read the inscription on the statue of liberty again.

 

[OCA]

In response to the problem of high prices, I think people are overlooking the capitalist option.

We shut the border, allowing only legal, documented workers into the country, and suddenly your landscaper shoots his costs from $20 a week to $60 a week, siting legal employment as the reason.

A guy down the street, who has done well for himself in the business world and hates his job has been thinking of retiring decides there is an opportunity at hand...he retires 5 years early and hires his highschool aged son and his son's 4 best friends as grass-mowers, weed-pullers, etc. He hires an actual landscaper to oversee them and tell them what to do...he offers his services for $30 a week.

Sacrifices will be made...you're still paying $10 bucks more than you used to, and sure, the highschool kids don't always do everything perfectly...but the border would be secure...we would be able to have legal immigrants doing jobs illegal ones used to...and we could be making strides towards knowing that the next 9-11 won't come from a terrorist running across the section of border not guarded by the minutemen.

Sounds nice but not realistic.

 

[OCA]

Zoot suits...1930's my my..you have a little grasp on history...I worked for LAPD 1971-1974 before going federal...gangs in LA are for the most part composed of illegal aleins...Zuit suits for the most part in the 1930's were a social group...not really into organized crime...this was the domain of the "familia" as in Italian and Jewish decent...Of which I share heritage as in decent but not crime...(latin and Italian)...you are way off base...please spare us your interpretation of history...one cannot justify continued violations of current law by citing past historical events that are flawed to represent the writers view...geez!

So I guess crips and bloods(the majority of gangs in L.A.) are illegal too? Methinks you are way off base L.A.P.D. or not.

Am I speaking to Mark Fuhrman?

Mexican gangs for the most part in L.A. are generational, Mexicans from the old country are looked down on just as the mob used to look down on Italians from the old country, commonly referred to as zips.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

Sounds nice but not realistic.

don't be such a defeatist, OCA.

 

[OCA]

Lol DK I hear ya but then again Its just not reality in today's world. Oh sure you can find an example here and there of this kind of thing but they are few and far between. Like it or not we live in an instant gratification society, people just aren't willing to start at the bottom and spend 5-10 even 20 years getting to where they want to go, especially college grads.

Hell you'd be hard pressed to find a high school kid to do landscape work especially turfing a new lawn, ever try that crap?

 

[SmarterThanYou]

Lol DK I hear ya but then again Its just not reality in today's world. Oh sure you can find an example here and there of this kind of thing but they are few and far between. Like it or not we live in an instant gratification society, people just aren't willing to start at the bottom and spend 5-10 even 20 years getting to where they want to go, especially college grads.

Hell you'd be hard pressed to find a high school kid to do landscape work especially turfing a new lawn, ever try that crap?

man, i've done alot of physical labor jobs in my time. one of the worst I've ever done was digging water pipe trenches for an apartment complex water sprinkler system in albuquerque. digging 2 foot trenches with a trench shovel in sand, rock, and clay sucks ass. I was sore for months afterwards, and I did it for $5 an hour.

 

[OCA]

man, i've done alot of physical labor jobs in my time. one of the worst I've ever done was digging water pipe trenches for an apartment complex water sprinkler system in albuquerque. digging 2 foot trenches with a trench shovel in sand, rock, and clay sucks ass. I was sore for months afterwards, and I did it for $5 an hour.

When I was 17 my dad was sales manager at a brick manufacturing plant, I spent a summer off loading wet bricks(heavy as hell) onto a railcar so they could go through a kiln and be fired, the guys around me were mostly Mexicans, they outworked me 10-1, bastards would ask for overtime too. They have an inner work ethic second to none and don't ask for extras, this is why they are so attractive to employers.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

When I was 17 my dad was sales manager at a brick manufacturing plant, I spent a summer off loading wet bricks(heavy as hell) onto a railcar so they could go through a kiln and be fired, the guys around me were mostly Mexicans, they outworked me 10-1, bastards would ask for overtime too. They have an inner work ethic second to none and don't ask for extras, this is why they are so attractive to employers.

Its not their work ethic, its the money they are making. I've been to mexico a few times, i've seen how they work. longer breaks, less work done, shoddy at that. we need to change how the system works here in this country and find the happy medium.

 

[archangel]

So I guess crips and bloods(the majority of gangs in L.A.) are illegal too? Methinks you are way off base L.A.P.D. or not.

Am I speaking to Mark Fuhrman?

Mexican gangs for the most part in L.A. are generational, Mexicans from the old country are looked down on just as the mob used to look down on Italians from the old country, commonly referred to as zips.

Crips and Bloods...is this a test? If so they are African American heritage...not hispanic as you were refering to in your original comments!As for am I" Mark Fuhrman"...no and what pray tell was this all about? Also the Crips and Bloods are located all over the 50 states not limited to Los Angeles...
Anymore rediculous attempts at justification of allowing illegals to be granted amnesty?