Scott Walker recall effort starts Tuesday

[Amelia]

Claims that the Wisconsin budget cuts "are working" are completely beside the point. As has been pointed out before (to no effect, because conservative politics isn't fact-based so pointing out facts generally accomplishes little), the unions had ALREADY AGREED to all of the proposed budget cuts BEFORE Gov. Walker and his cronies in the legislature passed their union-gutting act.

The issue is not the state budget. The issue is the rights of working people. Restoring the rights of working people will neither improve nor worsen the problems of the state budget.

This answer shows that you don't understand how public unions work(ed) here in Wisconsin.

You just don't understand the profound pressures they applied to budgets. Their illegal actions such as sick outs. How they used the media to apply pressure. How long they would be willing to go without a contract to apply the pressure to get all their demands.

Many were working without contracts when Walker came into office because their demands were so off base that they couldn't even get liberal Doyle's administration to play ball with them last year.

They made the first level of concessions Walker asked for under the point of a gun basically so that they wouldn't have to make the changes which would actually bring sanity back to Wisconsin's budget.

And even then, after some agreed to make that first level of concessions, others were ramming their contracts through at the last minute so that they wouldn't have to make the concessions for a year or more.


I bet you've been told this dozens of times. Don't know why I'm trying now.



But there you go. If you haven't experienced unions here - the kind of people who would file a grievance because the city hired extra snow plow operators during a blizzard to help people be able to get to work, the kind of people who would lay off award winning first year teachers to upgrade their health plans so that viagra was covered, the kind who would do illegal sick outs and refuse to sign letters of recommendation for college bound students to try to pressure the city into giving in ot unaffordable demands, the kind who made cities write into law guaranteed yearly raises without regard for any economic indexes with a result of cut programs and loss of personnel - then you don't have a clue what we were up against.


If you live in Wisconsin and don't know what I'm talking about, then I don't know where you have been looking.

If you don't live in Wisconsin, then be very careful about where you get your news from. The standard talking points from people like Rachel Maddow earlier this year were way way off.

 

[PredFan]

Claims that the Wisconsin budget cuts "are working" are completely beside the point. As has been pointed out before (to no effect, because conservative politics isn't fact-based so pointing out facts generally accomplishes little), the unions had ALREADY AGREED to all of the proposed budget cuts BEFORE Gov. Walker and his cronies in the legislature passed their union-gutting act.

The issue is not the state budget. The issue is the rights of working people. Restoring the rights of working people will neither improve nor worsen the problems of the state budget.

None of the rights of the working people are being threatened in any way. One does not have the right to collectively bargain.

 

[jillian]

Claims that the Wisconsin budget cuts "are working" are completely beside the point. As has been pointed out before (to no effect, because conservative politics isn't fact-based so pointing out facts generally accomplishes little), the unions had ALREADY AGREED to all of the proposed budget cuts BEFORE Gov. Walker and his cronies in the legislature passed their union-gutting act.

The issue is not the state budget. The issue is the rights of working people. Restoring the rights of working people will neither improve nor worsen the problems of the state budget.

None of the rights of the working people are being threatened in any way. One does not have the right to collectively bargain.

you do by contract if you've negotiated for it.

the issue hads zip to do with money. the unions in wisconsin agreed to all the financial demands. it has to do with union busting. that is the only goal.

 

[jgarden]

In Wisconsin, it's teachers vs. millionaires
MARCH 4, 2011

Number of teachers in Wisconsin: 59,552
Number of millionaires in Wisconsin: 89,977

Average Wisconsin teacher salary: $46,390 (US rank: 28th among all states)

Typical wage cut faced by a Wisconsin school teacher if Gov. Scott Walker's non- negotiable give-backs are enacted: $5,567 to 6,958 per year (based on net total compensation reduction caused by Walker's plan).

Continuing average income boost for millionaires in Wisconsin and elsewhere, thanks to the recent extension of 2001 Bush-era federal tax cuts: Approximately $100,000 per year.

..... If the State of Wisconsin increased taxes on resident millionaires to take back just one-twentieth of the extra money they've been keeping in their pockets thanks to the Bush tax cuts, that would totally wipe out the need to slash teacher salaries under Walker's scheme. Totally.

http://open.salon.com/blog/ron_legro/2011/03/04/in_wisconsin_its_teachers_vs_millionaires

Apparently "Amelia" is objecting to those school districts that refused to do what she euphemistically refers to as "reforms" - Governor Walker's "dirty work!'

The 59,552 teachers in Wisconsin, whose salaries already averaged less than $50 000 and facing a $5,567 to 6,958 annual "non- negotiable give-back" have been characterized as selfish and greedy

The 89,977 millionaires in Wisconsin whole incomes are expected to increase by $100 000+ annually based on the Bush tax-cuts derserve a "free ride!"

 

[jillian]

Claims that the Wisconsin budget cuts "are working" are completely beside the point. As has been pointed out before (to no effect, because conservative politics isn't fact-based so pointing out facts generally accomplishes little), the unions had ALREADY AGREED to all of the proposed budget cuts BEFORE Gov. Walker and his cronies in the legislature passed their union-gutting act.

The issue is not the state budget. The issue is the rights of working people. Restoring the rights of working people will neither improve nor worsen the problems of the state budget.

This answer shows that you don't understand how public unions work(ed) here in Wisconsin.

You just don't understand the profound pressures they applied to budgets. Their illegal actions such as sick outs. How they used the media to apply pressure. How long they would be willing to go without a contract to apply the pressure to get all their demands.

Many were working without contracts when Walker came into office because their demands were so off base that they couldn't even get liberal Doyle's administration to play ball with them last year.

They made the first level of concessions Walker asked for under the point of a gun basically so that they wouldn't have to make the changes which would actually bring sanity back to Wisconsin's budget.

And even then, after some agreed to make that first level of concessions, others were ramming their contracts through at the last minute so that they wouldn't have to make the concessions for a year or more.


I bet you've been told this dozens of times. Don't know why I'm trying now.



But there you go. If you haven't experienced unions here - the kind of people who would file a grievance because the city hired extra snow plow operators during a blizzard to help people be able to get to work, the kind of people who would lay off award winning first year teachers to upgrade their health plans so that viagra was covered, the kind who would do illegal sick outs and refuse to sign letters of recommendation for college bound students to try to pressure the city into giving in ot unaffordable demands, the kind who made cities write into law guaranteed yearly raises without regard for any economic indexes with a result of cut programs and loss of personnel - then you don't have a clue what we were up against.


If you live in Wisconsin and don't know what I'm talking about, then I don't know where you have been looking.

If you don't live in Wisconsin, then be very careful about where you get your news from. The standard talking points from people like Rachel Maddow earlier this year were way way off.

you telling people to be careful about where they get their news is really, really funny.

 

[Amelia]

Claims that the Wisconsin budget cuts "are working" are completely beside the point. As has been pointed out before (to no effect, because conservative politics isn't fact-based so pointing out facts generally accomplishes little), the unions had ALREADY AGREED to all of the proposed budget cuts BEFORE Gov. Walker and his cronies in the legislature passed their union-gutting act.

The issue is not the state budget. The issue is the rights of working people. Restoring the rights of working people will neither improve nor worsen the problems of the state budget.

What PredFan said. CB is not a right. If it were, why aren't people marching on Washington to demand Obama give all federal workers and the military their right to CB.

And to reiterate/summarize the bottom line is that, yes, restoring those so called "rights" would worsen the problems of the state budget.

But as I said up there, you've probably heard the explanation before, and you're probably in denial.


When you're dealing with this kind of mentality entrenched in the public unions throughout the state, it's a problem which needs a profound fix. This was bad timing for the unions, good timing to illustrate the problem we face. I bet they wouldn't have filed that grievance if they'd known the spotlight which was about to be shone onto unions. But maybe they would have anyway, considering how much unions take for granted here.

Union’s grievance feeds Walker’s plan

 

[Amelia]

you telling people to be careful about where they get their news is really, really funny.

Funny to you.

Where do you think I get my news?

If your answer would be Fox, then don't even go there.


I live in Wisconsin. Our local news outlets provide good coverage of things which impact us.

 

[Conservative]

you telling people to be careful about where they get their news is really, really funny.

not as funny as when you do it.

 

[rightwinger]

What has taken them so long?

 

[Amelia]

What has taken them so long?

Seriously?


Recall Election Information | Government Accountability Board

 

[Dr.House]

Didn't this already get a start last week?

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker recall process officially begins | Milwaukee Story


This allows Walker to begin collecting unlimited funds to defend this until a date is set for a recall election.

Pretty smart move by the pro Walker group that pulled this end around...

 

[jillian]

how many recalls are they going to lose before they stop playing these party over nation games?

well, they're two for four

you know... same tactics used by the rightwingnuts... how do you think ahhhhhhhhnold became the governator?

wasn't that the Gray Davis recall election? One supported by Democrats?

Audie Bock (D) Explains Why Democrats in CA Should Vote to RECALL Gray Davis

that's just an opinion piece about why dems *should* support it. the recall effort was started by repubs. (please correct me if i'm wrong about that).

 

[Conservative]

well, they're two for four

you know... same tactics used by the rightwingnuts... how do you think ahhhhhhhhnold became the governator?

wasn't that the Gray Davis recall election? One supported by Democrats?

Audie Bock (D) Explains Why Democrats in CA Should Vote to RECALL Gray Davis

that's just an opinion piece about why dems *should* support it. the recall effort was started by repubs. (please correct me if i'm wrong about that).

but it was 'supported' by Dems, which was what I said.

 

[jillian]

wasn't that the Gray Davis recall election? One supported by Democrats?

Audie Bock (D) Explains Why Democrats in CA Should Vote to RECALL Gray Davis

that's just an opinion piece about why dems *should* support it. the recall effort was started by repubs. (please correct me if i'm wrong about that).

but it was 'supported' by Dems, which was what I said.

not really... that was a "why it *should" be supported", not what percent, and was written by someone with an agenda.

i know it's facile to rely on things like that, but it doesn't accurately reflect the circumstances.

audie bock wasn't a dem. she was a member of the green party and when she ran again, she put "decline to state" as her party so she wouldn't have to run in a dem primary.

she didn't become a dem til after 9/11 when she ran against barbara lee. the freeper letter you posted was her effort to unseat gray davis because SHE was running in the recall.

In 2003, Bock ran for Governor of California in the 2003 California recall. On a right-wing website, she urged Democrats to vote to recall Gray Davis. Bock received 3,358 votes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Bock

 

[Dr.House]

well, they're two for four

you know... same tactics used by the rightwingnuts... how do you think ahhhhhhhhnold became the governator?

wasn't that the Gray Davis recall election? One supported by Democrats?

Audie Bock (D) Explains Why Democrats in CA Should Vote to RECALL Gray Davis

that's just an opinion piece about why dems *should* support it. the recall effort was started by repubs. (please correct me if i'm wrong about that).

As pointed out, the Davis recall was a different animal... His recall was supported by D's and R's...

 

[Dr.House]

that's just an opinion piece about why dems *should* support it. the recall effort was started by repubs. (please correct me if i'm wrong about that).

but it was 'supported' by Dems, which was what I said.

not really... that was a "why it *should" be supported", not what percent, and was written by heaven knows who.

i know it's facile to rely on things like that, but it doesn't accurately reflect the circumstances.

Um... without D's voting to recall, he wouldn't have been recalled....

 

[occupied]

He needs to be recalled if for no other reason then to send a message that there are consequences to negating any right no matter the situation or rationalization.

 

[Amelia]

He needs to be recalled if for no other reason then to send a message that there are consequences to negating any right no matter the situation or rationalization.

Then Obama has needed to be recalled for many months now!

 

[Seawytch]

Walker never ran on destroying union rights in WI. The recall is a result of that.

 

[occupied]

Walker never ran on destroying union rights in WI. The recall is a result of that.

He certainly had no good reason to make it such an underhandedly fought and divisive issue, It's almost like it was a commandment from god, or maybe it was just one of the conditions of his campaign funding.