School Choice

Discussion in 'Education' started by chanel, May 16, 2010.

  1. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    School Choice Bill Heads To Full Senate Vote - New Jersey 101.5 FM

    How does it work in your state? Can vouchers be used for religious schools? Can anyone qualify or is it just based on need?
     
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  2. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    In the longer run this idea might have merit.

    In the shorter run it's going to be hard on public education, I suspect.

    Public school have no choice but to take those kids whose education costs more than it does for average kids.

    And if people can freely choose to go to schools where such kids are excluded, then the average cost per student for public schools will rise even as the overall revenues brought in through a voucher system will go down.

    But public schools have non-operating costs (like retirement contracts) that won't go down, even if the number of students declines.

    So, from a professional teacher's standpoint, vouchers might be a grand idea.

    But the general public will, I think, in the aggregate, end up paying more for educating their kids.
     
  3. RadiomanATL
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    RadiomanATL Senior Member

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    I'm glad my children go to private school.

    Public schools are in the shitter around here. 300 teachers laid off in my county, class sizes now at 40 students per teacher, at the middle school level art, music and athletics are being canceled, and they are discussing the idea of going to a 4 day school week at 9 hours per day and canceling PE.

    So they're going to put 40 middle schoolers in a room with one teacher, not allow them a physical release through PE, not allow them a creative release through art or music, and basically lecture them on the "3 R's" for 9 hours.

    Kids need more than that. Much, much, much more. They are setting up these kids for failure, not success.
     
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  4. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    It's an interesting idea to let corporations fund "scholarships" as opposed to checks issued from the govt. That's probably how they got around the religion part.

    It will be a great boon to Catholic schools, which I support. I can't imagine having to send my child to a school in Newark or Camden.

    Radioman - We laid off 36 teachers in my district. I'm not sure what the impact will be on class size, but I don't think it will be up to 40 kids. However, they have eliminated those programs you mentioned in the middle schools. That's where kids get in the most trouble in my opinion (and lose interest in school). Sad.
     
  5. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    the people who push vouchers generally do so because they WANT to suck funds from public education and have us pay for their kids' parochial school and destroy what they consider 'secular' education.

    and you're right of course, public schools have no choice about the kids they take...
     
  6. Si modo
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    Si modo Diamond Member

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    I disagree. I don't think those who are in favor of vouchers are because they want to hurt public schools. That's an odd motivation for anyone (although there are freaks in the world). They see public education continuing to decline and are concerned about already having at least one generation of idiots as a product of that.

    Perhaps their motivation is not a destructive one, rather it is a constructive one. But, I suppose we all will project a bit onto those with whom we disagree.
     
  7. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Yeah that's true.

    The school voucher idea is just one aspect of the neo-cons's plans to starve off government until it is meaningless.

    But this plan resonates with more people than just neo-cons.

    And the reason for that is far too many people know perfectly well that the public school system is failing their kids.

    Now obviously not every school system is failing, but enough are that the neo-cons have a bludgeon to use against public education.
     
  8. RadiomanATL
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    RadiomanATL Senior Member

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    Not the people I know.

    I'm for vouchers. Not because I want to destroy public education, but because by and large the state and local governments refuse to change the way public education is handled.

    And you kind of touched on it. Public schools have no choice about the kids they take. Private schools do.

    When I was in middle and high school, the degenerates and habitual troublemakers were shipped to their own school. Can't do that anymore. I can see why people would have a problem with doing it, but putting them back in the general population of a school doesn't work either. So now the troublemakers continue to disturb things, and the teachers really can't do a damn thing about it anymore. At least in the two school districts that I am familiar with. Brings the whole thing down. The teacher has to teach to the lowest common denominator, and education suffers.

    In my daughter's private school, you only get so many discipline warnings and then you're out. For good. And the teachers expect the students to keep up with the curriculum, not the other way around.

    Anecdote time: My daughter went to public school for kindergarten and first grade. During her first grade year there were groups of kids that you could tell were just plain raising themselves, with no parental involvement. One of the kids from that group went around calling all the caucasian girls in his class (my daughter included) "fucking cracker sluts." First freaking grade, and I don't think he even knew what the terms meant. He had obviously heard it from older brothers or sisters. Although we went to the administration, the school couldn't really do anything because the parents refuse to be involved at any level in these kids lives. And the parents expected the school to essentially be a babysitter. Add to this that while my first grader was going to this school, she tried to emulate the "cool" kids in her class, with the finger wagging, hand on hip "oh no I AIN'T gonna do what you say" disrespect for adults.

    It was then that I decided that no matter what the cost, my children would not be going to public school while this crap was going on. This past year in private school, my daughter's attitude has changed dramatically for the better, the worst the "problem kids" do are skip lunch lines or whisper in class, and she is actually having to WORK to learn, as the teacher is stretching her capabilities.

    Change the tail wagging the dog in public education in discipline and curriculum, and I would send my kids back to public schools in a heartbeat because I do believe that the diversity they would encounter there would help them grow tremendously. I don't see that happening any time soon though.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2010
  9. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    Editec - this is being spear headed by the Black Ministers Council. It is not the "neo-cons' This program will only benefit poor children in failing schools. Who could oppose that?
     
  10. Si modo
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    Si modo Diamond Member

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    If I had kids, there is no way I would send them to public school. I would look into private schools, look at the tuition, thenl ook at my local taxes. I would want something done about that wasted money. If tuition was too prohibitive for my budget, I would home school - not because of any religion, rather for a decent education.
     

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